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[captainpat]

It's really not hard to look up videos of this minigame and conclude "I'm glad this is not in the game anymore" based on that. You'll find many of us have done just that.

Sure, just don't that the majority of people have your same reaction based off of flimsy evidence.

 

[Nanashrew]

Yes these are my concerns. I don't see the point of defending shit that serves little purpose but to invite comparisons between Fire Emblem and Compile Heart games.

Compile Hearts is odd. Were they the ones that said they felt like they didn't want to localize as many games because they didn't want to censor their products? It's an odd stance as they're choose to remain insular, and while they probably don't need to cut content or w/e, it likely would likely survive as a niche. Of course, unless the stuff is super bad like some lolicon stuff, that will get cut for sure just like some Vita games have for reasons of law and to avoid AO rating.

 

[Elaugaufein]

I wonder if Anderson was thinking of face-rubbing when he said that.

As a general rule people with strong anti-censorship positions will be supporting the right to exist of things much more offensive to people than anything that is ever going to get published on a console. The ACLU has gone to bat for genuine Neo-Nazi's before , not because they agreed with them , but because they didn't think constitutional rights should be voided.

 

[Kaisos]

In short: Yes

My condolences, then. My friends reacted with "wow that's weird" when I explained the petting minigame, having compared it to Pokemon Amie, and that was the end of that.

 

[Palculator]

Germany does that, too. Among other things, the German version of RE4 didn't have Mercenaries.

RE4. Without Mercenaries.

Truly, the darkest timeline.

*did, that shit isn't really done anymore. And it sure as hell wasn't ever about anything sexual because this isn't some topsy turvy country where sex is more feared than violence.

 

[duckroll]

I don't play Fire Emblem anymore, I don't buy new Fire Emblem games, so honestly this doesn't really affect me directly in any way. But if it were a series I actually cared about, at this point I think I would be at least a little concerned. Direct censorship is always bad, even if it is done for the "right" reasons. I don't think it really matters who is doing the censorship either, although that can cause more or less distress depending on the process. When Spielberg alters ET for the re-release, it is stupid. When Lucas decides to change the context of scenes when re-releasing Star Wars, it is stupid. When studios decide to censor movies to release them at lower ratings in cinemas, it is annoying. When studios decide to censor movies for foreign sensitivities to reach a larger audience, it is annoying.

In many cases, an argument can always be made for why changes are made. But that doesn't change the fact that it is annoying that works cannot stand on their own for what they are. That's not to say that every piece of work some amazing work of art worthy of eternal preservation, but rather that I think each piece of work should be allowed to stand for itself to be judged by the audience.

I don't want to play a SRPG with casual homophobic stuff, or creepy face rubbing minigames where you get "closer" to your party members. But I think I still wouldn't want to play such a SRPG even if such content is removed from a single version of the game. If Nintendo of America truly feels that such content is offensive and should not be in their games, and if they truly feel that the content in FE Fates could be classified as such, then they should have been to reject the game for localization. Of course we know this is not the case. This is a business and marketing decision meant to distance the brand outside of Japan from Idea Factory games. I think we can all accept that, because business is business, but I'm not sure if championing or celebrating that decision is in the best interest of consumers.

If the next Fire Emblem game in Japan doubles down on this sort of thing, is the English fanbase going to essentially turn into one that encourages and demands for continued censorship in every game just so they can pretend to feel better about a series that they would otherwise feel weird about liking in the original form? That would be so weird to me.

 

[JediLink]

Pretty much. People bringing up this argument are either huge hypocrites who are basically saying instead "I care what people thinking about MEEEEEE", or just don't know what they're talking about. There's no big "public perception" of fire emblem. And like someone pointed out above, at least the waifu stuff helped push sales if anything. The removal of this won't change a iota about the perception of the game.

It's a dumb decision to remove a bit of content to appease the uncomfortable tantrum of a group who basically goes out of their way to categorize anything vaguely intimate as SOFTCORE PORN. Good job. I won't die on the FE petting hill but honestly the sheer amount of people happy that they get to cut some fairly harmless content for everyone else because it helps to reinforce them is just astounding, and incredibly arrogant and petty. Like this minigame was the slippery slope that's gonna lead to "reinforce sexism"

This has probably been brought up over 10 times already over the course of the thread but it's less like cutting more more like not reincluding, considering the entire thing would need to be translated and revoiced.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Compile Hearts is odd. Were they the ones that said they felt like they didn't want to localize as many games because they didn't want to censor their products? It's an odd stance as they're choose to remain insular, and while they probably don't need to cut content or w/e, it likely would likely survive as a niche. Of course, unless the stuff is super bad like some lolicon stuff, that will get cut for sure just like some Vita games have for reasons of law and to avoid AO rating.

They haven't remained insular exactly. They've had English releases of those games released in Asia , so you can import them or PSN them if you really want them (given that they'd be legal in your jurisdiction of course). It's still kind of a weird position though yeah.

 

[Koeta]

Now i will always wish there will be no third party exclusive J-RPG game for Nintendo consoles. I want to play Japanese game because japanese approach not like this...

It makes me sad when I think of how many Japanese games end up on 3ds/WiiU that could have found a more Welcoming audience on Any of the other systems.

 

[Yoshi]

As a general rule people with strong anti-censorship positions will be supporting the right to exist of things much more offensive to people than anything that is ever going to get published on a console. The ACLU has gone to bat for genuine Neo-Nazi's before , not because they agreed with them , but because they didn't think their speech should be censored.

Would the ACLU also figth for the Neo-Nazis not to censor themselves?

 

[Elaugaufein]

Would the ACLU also figth for the Neo-Nazis not to censor themselves?

I have a hard time envisioning how the ACLU would even come to be involved in that case since people are unlikely to sue themselves. My point was that if you think that this mini-game is the line that strong anti-censorship advocates are going to draw , that you're almost certainly wrong and so by many many leagues.

 

[dan2026]

I don't even get why it was censored.

There are much racier ecchi games on the Vita that have been localised.
This stuff in Fire Emblem seems so tame.

 

[MrHoot]

Read again. I'm not saying it's the same, FEF is certainly more tame than Dungeon Travelers 2, I was just saying that I do not care what others think about me because I'm playing a game, but I care about potentially damaging content for a series I love.

That is fair. I guess then just the crux is what kind of content we both perceived damaging. I'm not gonna contest that it can make some uncomfortable but I don't think this particular thing (which is optional) would be the thing that nails FE in a japan-only coffin.

I mean it's a bit weird to me. I know a lot of girls who enjoy fanservice as well. Hell one of the reason like bioware games for example are so popular with female audience is because of the relationships, and they do more than "petting" there, even if it's not explicit. So I wonder why something that I would consider way more tame suddenly be considered so controversial as to cut FE from localization if that would ever happen.

This has probably been brought up over 10 times already over the course of the thread but it's less like cutting more more like not reincluding, considering the entire thing would need to be translated and revoiced.

Sorry I missed that. That's fair too. It sucks a bit too but I dunno the budget they have for localization for that stuff
Like i'm not THAT miffed by the lack of inclusion, i'll live it's more of the reaction around it that i'm questionning

 

[Nanashrew]

Well it's not like the series was doing all that well before. Awakening is the reason anyone's getting any Fire Emblem anywhere.



Stealth 4Kids thread?

4Kids was really bad about a lot of things, and despite some issues like that in Pokemon, they put a hell of a lot more money and effort into it cause it was their cash cow. Now, if you want to talk Tokyo Mew Mew or One Piece? Oooh boy! I had a friend who worked at Funimation at the time and he just could not stand anything that 4Kids were doing to One Piece. Same for me. The show was meant for teens and not younger kids.

I also could not stand what they did to Tokyo Mew Mew. That's a show that could be aimed at kids, but their localization attempt was so very poor and very dumb.

 

[duckroll]

I don't even get why it was censored.

There are much racier ecchi games on the Vita that have been localised.
This stuff in Fire Emblem seems so tame.

Because Nintendo is publishing it and Nintendo is not publishing that Vita games? Not really a hard thing to understand...

 

[RawNuts]

Nintendo of America just shot themselves in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about Japanese culture (I'm an expert), but head-petting and waifus are huge parts of it.

Nintendo, publicly apologize and keep the minigame intact for the Western release or you can kiss your business goodbye.

 

[olimpia84]

I for one applaud this decision. That kind of shit has no business on a FE game and besides a lot of people that have played the japanese version hated the petting thing anyway.

 

[Yoshi]

I don't play Fire Emblem anymore, I don't buy new Fire Emblem games, so honestly this doesn't really affect me directly in any way. But if it were a series I actually cared about, at this point I think I would be at least a little concerned. Direct censorship is always bad, even if it is done for the "right" reasons. I don't think it really matters who is doing the censorship either, although that can cause more or less distress depending on the process. When Spielberg alters ET for the re-release, it is stupid. When Lucas decides to change the context of scenes when re-releasing Star Wars, it is stupid. When studios decide to censor movies to release them at lower ratings in cinemas, it is annoying. When studios decide to censor movies for foreign sensitivities to reach a larger audience, it is annoying.

In many cases, an argument can always be made for why changes are made. But that doesn't change the fact that it is annoying that works cannot stand on their own for what they are. That's not to say that every piece of work some amazing work of art worthy of eternal preservation, but rather that I think each piece of work should be allowed to stand for itself to be judged by the audience.

I don't want to play a SRPG with casual homophobic stuff, or creepy face rubbing minigames where you get "closer" to your party members. But I think I still wouldn't want to play such a SRPG even if such content is removed from a single version of the game. If Nintendo of America truly feels that such content is offensive and should not be in their games, and if they truly feel that the content in FE Fates could be classified as such, then they should have been to reject the game for localization. Of course we know this is not the case. This is a business and marketing decision meant to distance the brand outside of Japan from Idea Factory games. I think we can all accept that, because business is business, but I'm not sure if championing or celebrating that decision is in the best interest of consumers.

If the next Fire Emblem game in Japan doubles down on this sort of thing, is the English fanbase going to essentially turn into one that encourages and demands for continued censorship in every game just so they can pretend to feel better about a series that they would otherwise feel weird about liking in the original form? That would be so weird to me.

Well if the alternative is for NoA not to release the game or to delete some questionable content, how could any fan be in favour of the first? If the next FE doubles down on it, but keeps the gameplay to the expected high standard, I would be fine with any censorship that leads to the game being sellable in the west. I exclusively play games for their gameplay (in most cases), so if the complete story would have to be rewritten / cut for NoA to feel confident to release the game, so be it. If it is for focussing on Waifu stuff in an inappropiate way, then I would even prefer the cut down version over the original. I also wouldn't feel weird about liking the game in its original form. I would definitely not feel werid about liking FEF as it is in Japan, as long as the gameplay is good.

 

[Elaugaufein]

It makes me sad when I think of how many Japanese games end up on 3ds/WiiU that could have found a more Welcoming audience on Any of the other systems.

Nintendo's actually been pretty decent with 3rd party stuff on the 3DS , there's a bunch of games that would cause the standardized animu freak out that get released (Lord of Magna and Stella Glow to name a couple of recent ones). They are just super cautious with their own stuff (or stuff that they are translating themselves).

 

[Layell]

I do hope this serves as a wake-up call to IS and Nintendo of Japan, this along with the changes made in XCX is sending a strong signal on what is or is not appropriate for western audiences.

 

[Yoshi]

I have a hard time envisioning how the ACLU would even come to be involved in that case since people are unlikely to sue themselves. My point was that if you think that this mini-game is the line that strong anti-censorship advocates are going to draw , that you're almost certainly wrong and so by many many leagues.

My point is: We are not talking about institutional censorship here. If my state was demanding the content to be cut, I would fight for Nintendo's rights to include it, even though I hate it. As it stands, I'm glad Nintendo decided to cut it on their own.

That is fair. I guess then just the crux is what kind of content we both perceived damaging. I'm not gonna contest that it can make some uncomfortable but I don't think this particular thing (which is optional) would be the thing that nails FE in a japan-only coffin.

I mean it's a bit weird to me. I know a lot of girls who enjoy fanservice as well. Hell one of the reason like bioware games for example are so popular with female audience is because of the relationships, and they do more than "petting" there, even if it's not explicit. So I wonder why something that I would consider way more tame suddenly be considered so controversial as to cut FE from localization if that would ever happen.

Considering the fate that FE suffered even few years ago on the DS, I'm sensitive to that. Btw it is also not about male or female players being the ones who enjoy this, for me it's about the type of content, not who it is targeted at.

 

[Rabid Dwarf 76]

Why are opinions of some fans in Japan being brought up all the time as proof it should have been removed? They'll be just as mixed as they are here. They're not a hivemind.

But that doesn't support people's opinions. How dare we let facts and critical thinking get in the way of shitting on people's desire to play a game in its entirety. Remember this is sexiest pile of anime garbage. Won't someone please think of the children!

I hate everything that's happened to this game. I just wanted the complete game but now I don't. Thanks outrage culture. You won.

 

[Ushojax]

Well it's not like the series was doing all that well before. Awakening is the reason anyone's getting any Fire Emblem anywhere.

Awakening was an acceptable compromise between the classic FE tone and Harvest Moon-style relationship options, no doubt the romance/children feature gave a boost that the series needed. This Fire Emblem If mini game felt like a step too far and didn't really mesh with the established tone of Fire Emblem. Silly support conversations, romance options, cute dragon girls is one thing, those have always been there. A petting mini-game really wasn't needed and for me doesn't fit this franchise, leave that to LovePlus where it belongs.

 

[captainpat]

I do hope this serves as a wake-up call to IS and Nintendo of Japan, this along with the changes made in XCX is sending a strong signal on what is or is not appropriate for western audiences.

Unless the Japanese versions start doing poorly it probably won't.

 

[duckroll]

Well if the alternative is for NoA not to release the game or to delete some questionable content, how could any fan be in favour of the first? If the next FE doubles down on it, but keeps the gameplay to the expected high standard, I would be fine with any censorship that leads to the game being sellable in the west. I exclusively play games for their gameplay (in most cases), so if the complete story would have to be rewritten / cut for NoA to feel confident to release the game, so be it. If it is for focussing on Waifu stuff in an inappropiate way, then I would even prefer the cut down version over the original. I also wouldn't feel weird about liking the game in its original form. I would definitely not feel werid about liking FEF as it is in Japan, as long as the gameplay is good.

Let me see if I have this right.

- You don't have any personal issues with the content in FE Fates
- You don't really seem to care what the story in the game is, it could be written in Klingon as long as the gameplay is intact
- You only care that the game is in fact released in your territory
- You are only with the publisher doing whatever they want to the game for them to feel confident in releasing the game in your territory

Is that all accurate? Okay now let's reverse it around. Let's talk about Person B. Person B plays FE exclusively for the story and characters. Person B doesn't really care about the gameplay that much, it only serves as a distraction between story scenes. Person B has no qualms with any changes made to the gameplay or balance, so long as the story and characters are intact. Nintendo of America decides to tailor the NA release of the next FE game to people like Person B, and have overhauled certain gameplay elements to make it far easier and less challenging, and have removed a number of maps from the Japanese version deemed too difficult. Would you be fine with it? Or would you be outraged? Because Person B would be fine with it as long as it is released at all!

 

[SliceSabre]

Awakening was an acceptable compromise between the classic FE tone and Harvest Moon-style relationship options, no doubt the romance/children feature gave a boost that the series needed. This Fire Emblem If mini game felt like a step too far and didn't really mesh with the established tone of Fire Emblem. Silly support conversations, romance options, cute dragon girls is one thing, those have always been there. A petting mini-game really wasn't needed and for me doesn't fit this franchise, leave that to LovePlus where it belongs.

People keep using this argument as though it was removed in final release of the game and it isn't available to anybody.

It is still a feature they felt the Japanese audience was okay with so they get to play with it, but everybody else doesn't So your argument that "This Fire Emblem If mini game felt like a step too far and didn't really mesh with the established tone of Fire Emblem." is wrong.

If they REALLY didn't think it belonged in the game is wouldn't have been in there in the first place and they sure as well wouldn't have spent all that money to put in in there.

 

[Kaisos]

I do hope this serves as a wake-up call to IS and Nintendo of Japan, this along with the changes made in XCX is sending a strong signal on what is or is not appropriate for western audiences.

See, like, the way you've constructed this post is what makes me so uncomfortable. "Not appropriate"? What does that mean, exactly?

Also, -they were already changing these things for Western audiences-? I don't get what NoJ or IS are supposed to do about that, it's not their jurisdiction. Are you suggesting that people who make games -for Japan- should be primarily making them -for America- instead?

 

[Nanashrew]

I don't play Fire Emblem anymore, I don't buy new Fire Emblem games, so honestly this doesn't really affect me directly in any way. But if it were a series I actually cared about, at this point I think I would be at least a little concerned. Direct censorship is always bad, even if it is done for the "right" reasons. I don't think it really matters who is doing the censorship either, although that can cause more or less distress depending on the process. When Spielberg alters ET for the re-release, it is stupid. When Lucas decides to change the context of scenes when re-releasing Star Wars, it is stupid. When studios decide to censor movies to release them at lower ratings in cinemas, it is annoying. When studios decide to censor movies for foreign sensitivities to reach a larger audience, it is annoying.

In many cases, an argument can always be made for why changes are made. But that doesn't change the fact that it is annoying that works cannot stand on their own for what they are. That's not to say that every piece of work some amazing work of art worthy of eternal preservation, but rather that I think each piece of work should be allowed to stand for itself to be judged by the audience.

I don't want to play a SRPG with casual homophobic stuff, or creepy face rubbing minigames where you get "closer" to your party members. But I think I still wouldn't want to play such a SRPG even if such content is removed from a single version of the game. If Nintendo of America truly feels that such content is offensive and should not be in their games, and if they truly feel that the content in FE Fates could be classified as such, then they should have been to reject the game for localization. Of course we know this is not the case. This is a business and marketing decision meant to distance the brand outside of Japan from Idea Factory games. I think we can all accept that, because business is business, but I'm not sure if championing or celebrating that decision is in the best interest of consumers.

If the next Fire Emblem game in Japan doubles down on this sort of thing, is the English fanbase going to essentially turn into one that encourages and demands for continued censorship in every game just so they can pretend to feel better about a series that they would otherwise feel weird about liking in the original form? That would be so weird to me.

Hard to describe. I am against censorship but I can understand why something like this would happen. I'm also baffled by IS's decision going this far with their content that it could end up being trouble for localization or their fanbase.

I imagine if IS continues doubling down, it could lose some fans. I know my cousin lost interest in anything having to do with Fates after all that has come up about it. She loved Awakening, it was her first Fire Emblem and she even got into the older ones. But Fates? I don't think she'll be touching it even with the cut content.

 

[Yarbskoo]

Awakening was an acceptable compromise between the classic FE tone and Harvest Moon-style relationship options, no doubt the romance/children feature gave a boost that the series needed. This Fire Emblem If mini game felt like a step too far and didn't really mesh with the established tone of Fire Emblem. Silly support conversations, romance options, cute dragon girls is one thing, those have always been there. A petting mini-game really wasn't needed and for me doesn't fit this franchise, leave that to LovePlus where it belongs.

An acceptable compromise to you perhaps, but I've seen some comments that were not so forgiving. Regardless, the discussion isn't whether or not you and I think it's acceptable, but whether it's a big enough issue to significantly affect the viability of localization.

I guess now that it's been taken out, we'll never know.

 

[Kaisos]

I imagine if IS continues doubling down, it could lose some fans. I know my cousin lost interest in anything having to do with Fates after all that has come up about it. She loved Awakening, it was her first Fire Emblem and she even got into the older ones. But Fates? I don't think she'll be touching it even with the cut content.

What I find really depressing is that we only know about things like Soleil in the first place -because- Awakening had become so popular over here. Nobody would have datamined the game (for the purposes of producing a translation before NoA got to it) and found that conversation otherwise.

It's really a shame your cousin won't try the game now, especially since Treehouse seems to have removed this stuff specifically to appeal to people like her.

 

[Chorazin]

But that doesn't support people's opinions. How dare we let facts and critical thinking get in the way of shitting on people's desire to play a game in its entirety. Remember this is sexiest pile of anime garbage. Won't someone please think of the children!

I hate everything that's happened to this game. I just wanted the complete game but now I don't. Thanks outrage culture. You won.

Why not buy a Japanese 3DS, and the game, and learn Japanese? If you're that outraged about not playing "complete games" then play them in their original language so you don't have to suffer through a translation that could change anything.

 

[redcrayon]

Let me see if I have this right.

- You don't have any personal issues with the content in FE Fates
- You don't really seem to care what the story in the game is, it could be written in Klingon as long as the gameplay is intact
- You only care that the game is in fact released in your territory
- You are only with the publisher doing whatever they want to the game for them to feel confident in releasing the game in your territory

Is that all accurate? Okay now let's reverse it around. Let's talk about Person B. Person B plays FE exclusively for the story and characters. Person B doesn't really care about the gameplay that much, it only serves as a distraction between story scenes. Person B has no qualms with any changes made to the gameplay or balance, so long as the story and characters are intact. Nintendo of America decides to tailor the NA release of the next FE game to people like Person B, and have overhauled certain gameplay elements to make it far easier and less challenging, and have removed a number of maps from the Japanese version deemed too difficult. Would you be fine with it? Or would you be outraged? Because Person B would be fine with it as long as it is released at all!

I see your point, and maybe this is me being pedantic, but I don't really think it's a fair comparison when story scenes in Fire Emblem take up a few sentences and the battles themselves anything up to an hour. Fire Emblem isn't exactly a 50/50 split between story/relationships and strategy game, the battle mechanics and army management are by far the 'meat' of the game. If a player finds them a tedious interlude between the comparatively sparse story scenes, the majority of the game is going to be pretty boring for them.

I know people do play them for the story, but I think most of those players probably have a passing interest in the battles too, whereas players only in it for the battles can happily skip story scenes in seconds.

 

[Yoshi]

Let me see if I have this right.

- You don't have any personal issues with the content in FE Fates
- You don't really seem to care what the story in the game is, it could be written in Klingon as long as the gameplay is intact
- You only care that the game is in fact released in your territory
- You are only with the publisher doing whatever they want to the game for them to feel confident in releasing the game in your territory

This is a bit exaggerated, let me rephrase each point to a point that I think explains my position well:
- I don't like the shipping and in particular the touching content, but it is not my primary concern with an FE and I would still play FE even if it was cranked up considerably and were to include content that I deem way more shitty (let's say outright pronography, as long as it still is legal around here, so not including minors) because I don't play FE for its story
- It could be written in Klingon, but then it should take less time, because I don't want to click past walls of text I don't understand. And I would certainly like a good story, but even the best ones (PoR, RD) were not really good, so it is not an important selling point to me. As long as the gameplay is intact, they could throw out all the story and I would still buy it and they could also leave the story itself untranslated if I can at least skip it and I would still buy it.
- I care about it being released in my territory translated to a language I can understand (German or English) with the SRPG gameplay intact.
- As long as the gameplay is not tampered with, yes.

Is that all accurate? Okay now let's reverse it around. Let's talk about Person B. Person B plays FE exclusively for the story and characters. Person B doesn't really care about the gameplay that much, it only serves as a distraction between story scenes. Person B has no qualms with any changes made to the gameplay or balance, so long as the story and characters are intact. Nintendo of America decides to tailor the NA release of the next FE game to people like Person B, and have overhauled certain gameplay elements to make it far easier and less challenging, and have removed a number of maps from the Japanese version deemed too difficult. Would you be fine with it? Or would you be outraged? Because Person B would be fine with it as long as it is released at all!

No I would not be fine with this, yes I would be outraged. Yes, I understand why Person B would not be happy with the current changes.

 

[Koeta]

Why not buy a Japanese 3DS, and the game, and learn Japanese? If you're that outraged about not playing "complete games" then play them in their original language so you don't have to suffer through a translation that could change anything.

Jokes aside I been putting some real thought into this.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

An acceptable compromise to you perhaps, but I've seen some comments that were not so forgiving. Regardless, the discussion isn't whether or not you and I think it's acceptable, but whether it's a big enough issue to significantly affect the viability of localization.

I guess now that it's been taken out, we'll never know.

But we do know, because Nintendo, in localizing the game, looked at the information they have regarding sales, customer feedback, and whatever else they might use to make these kind of decisions, and clearly, they determined it *does* affect localization and that it's better to leave it out.

You can disagree with them, but acting like this decision was made arbitrarily one day by someone rather than informed by the data available to them, just doesn't make sense.

 

[Ushojax]

People keep using this argument as though it was removed in final release of the game and it isn't available to anybody.

It is still a feature they felt the Japanese audience was okay with so they get to play with it, but everybody else doesn't So your argument that "This Fire Emblem If mini game felt like a step too far and didn't really mesh with the established tone of Fire Emblem." is wrong.

If they REALLY didn't think it belonged in the game is wouldn't have been in there in the first place and they sure as well wouldn't have spent all that money to put in in there.

I don't give a shit what 'they' think, I give a shit what I think. The mini game was a strange, unneeded addition to Fire Emblem and I'm glad it's gone. It was a mistake to begin with, just like Scrappy Doo, Jar Jar Binks and many other bad additions to popular franchises. Just because someone thought it was a good idea to put it in, doesn't mean they were right. If Aonuma wanted a mini game like this in a Zelda game I'd say it was a shit idea too.

 

[Chorazin]

Jokes aside I been putting some real thought into this.

I wasn't even really joking. Any sort of translation is going to take liberties with the source material to make them viable in other regions. The only way to get games as pure as you can is to play them in the original language.

 

[Firemind]

What I find really depressing is that we only know about things like Soleil in the first place -because- Awakening had become so popular over here. Nobody would have datamined the game (for the purposes of producing a translation before NoA got to it) and found that conversation otherwise.

lmao you're not familiar with the fire emblem fanbase, are you?

 

[WrenchNinja]

Person b sounds like an idiot tbh if that's what they come to this series or genre for

 

[Jarmel]

I don't play Fire Emblem anymore, I don't buy new Fire Emblem games, so honestly this doesn't really affect me directly in any way. But if it were a series I actually cared about, at this point I think I would be at least a little concerned. Direct censorship is always bad, even if it is done for the "right" reasons. I don't think it really matters who is doing the censorship either, although that can cause more or less distress depending on the process. When Spielberg alters ET for the re-release, it is stupid. When Lucas decides to change the context of scenes when re-releasing Star Wars, it is stupid. When studios decide to censor movies to release them at lower ratings in cinemas, it is annoying. When studios decide to censor movies for foreign sensitivities to reach a larger audience, it is annoying.

In many cases, an argument can always be made for why changes are made. But that doesn't change the fact that it is annoying that works cannot stand on their own for what they are. That's not to say that every piece of work some amazing work of art worthy of eternal preservation, but rather that I think each piece of work should be allowed to stand for itself to be judged by the audience.

I don't want to play a SRPG with casual homophobic stuff, or creepy face rubbing minigames where you get "closer" to your party members. But I think I still wouldn't want to play such a SRPG even if such content is removed from a single version of the game. If Nintendo of America truly feels that such content is offensive and should not be in their games, and if they truly feel that the content in FE Fates could be classified as such, then they should have been to reject the game for localization. Of course we know this is not the case. This is a business and marketing decision meant to distance the brand outside of Japan from Idea Factory games. I think we can all accept that, because business is business, but I'm not sure if championing or celebrating that decision is in the best interest of consumers.

This is my exact feelings on the matter too. It should be left up to the audiences to decide what the bad elements of any work is, instead of government officials or corporations dictating that to us. If a game, book, movie has something I feel inappropriate or out of place, I note that and move on. I don't need or want someone trying to shepherd the content that is available to me.

If the next Fire Emblem game in Japan doubles down on this sort of thing, is the English fanbase going to essentially turn into one that encourages and demands for continued censorship in every game just so they can pretend to feel better about a series that they would otherwise feel weird about liking in the original form? That would be so weird to me.

You know that's going to happen.

 

[Elaugaufein]

I see your point, and maybe this is me being pedantic, but I don't really think it's a fair comparison when story scenes in Fire Emblem take up a few sentences and the battles themselves anything up to an hour. Fire Emblem isn't exactly a 50/50 split between story/relationships and strategy game, the battle mechanics and army management are by far the 'meat' of the game. If a player finds them a tedious interlude between the comparatively sparse story scenes, the majority of the game is going to be pretty boring for them.

I don't think story focused people see it that way ? I mean I'm more of a mechanics person (though I seem to care more about the story than most of those) but pretty much the entire (X)RPG section is vastly more gameplay than story. That doesn't seem to have stopped people loving those stories and diving into them and coming up with the most bizarre theories for certain things. They'd probably just give up and watch the story sections on youtube if they decided the mechanics were absolutely worthless dreck.

 

[Nanashrew]

What I find really depressing is that we only know about things like Soleil in the first place -because- Awakening had become so popular over here. Nobody would have datamined the game (for the purposes of producing a translation before NoA got to it) and found that conversation otherwise.

It's really a shame your cousin won't try the game now, especially since Treehouse seems to have removed this stuff specifically to appeal to people like her.

This is true too, and the internet has a way to make so many more things visible than ever before. I'll see how it goes in the end, I won't pressure her though.

 

[duckroll]

I see your point, and maybe this is me being pedantic, but I don't really think it's a fair comparison when story scenes in Fire Emblem take up a few sentences and the battles themselves anything up to an hour. Fire Emblem isn't exactly a 50/50 split between story/relationships and strategy game, the battle mechanics and army management are by far the 'meat' of the game. If a player finds them a tedious interlude between the comparatively sparse story scenes, the majority of the game is going to be pretty boring for them.

It was just to make a point, it wasn't meant to be a fair comparison. But since you brought up that aspect of strategy games, I should probably point out that in Japan, the Super Robot Wars series is pretty damn popular, more so than FE (maybe about equal now though), and it is exclusively due to the licensed franchises, characters, and story. The gameplay is shit, but the maps are just as long if not longer than FE maps, and there are a gazillion maps in the game. So there, different audiences, different strokes.

 

[Kaisos]

lmao you're not familiar with the fire emblem fanbase, are you?

Not completely? I guess then I should say "nobody would have cared nearly as much".

Soleil blew up over all the gaming news websites. She (and now this facerubbing thing) are the majority of news that has been reported about this game, even if both are really, really trivial elements of the whole.

It's... more than a little depressing.

 

[PtM]

To be honest this has killed it for me.

Not because of the actual missing content. But I hate companies deciding what is or isn't appropriate for me. I am an adult and can decide what is for or not for me.

Nintendo can leave it. No sale.

Very mature.

So there, different audiences, different strokes.

Oh no, you didn't...


Oh god, the "leave shit be shit, so everybody has to deal with this shit" train is on full steam.

 

[SliceSabre]

I don't give a shit what 'they' think, I give a shit what I think. The mini game was a strange, unneeded addition to Fire Emblem and I'm glad it's gone. It was a mistake to begin with, just like Scrappy Doo, Jar Jar Binks and many other bad additions to popular franchises. Just because someome thought it was a good idea to put it in, doesn't mean they were right. If Aonuma wanted a mini game like this in a Zelda game I'd say it was a shit idea too.

Then what are you saying if you don't give a shit what they think? They, Nintendo, put it in the game in the first place. And they, Nintendo, allow for it to be played for the Japanese audience.

So they thought it was a good idea which is why it is in the Japanese version of the game. I mean at the end of the day we don't actually know why they removed it in the first place. As far as we know it could have been for a more insidious reason which could be they removed it because it was cheaper to localize without it and they didn't actually care about American sensibilities.

 

[duckroll]

Oh no, you didn't...

Are you really going to defend the -gameplay- of SRW?!

 

[Nanashrew]

It was just to make a point, it wasn't meant to be a fair comparison. But since you brought up that aspect of strategy games, I should probably point out that in Japan, the Super Robot Wars series is pretty damn popular, more so than FE (maybe about equal now though), and it is exclusively due to the licensed franchises, characters, and story. The gameplay is shit, but the maps are just as long if not longer than FE maps, and there are a gazillion maps in the game. So there, different audiences, different strokes.

I've actually always wanted to try Super Robot Wars. It just seems silly and fun.

 

[Alucrid]

To be honest this has killed it for me.

Not because of the actual missing content. But I hate companies deciding what is or isn't appropriate for me. I am an adult and can decide what is for or not for me.

Nintendo can leave it. No sale.

This line of thinking never makes sense to me. Companies do this all the time. Are you perpetually angry becuase of that?

 

[Yarbskoo]

But we do know, because Nintendo, in localizing the game, looked at the information they have regarding sales, customer feedback, and whatever else they might use to make these kind of decisions, and clearly, they determined it *does* affect localization and that it's better to leave it out.

You can disagree with them, but acting like this decision was made arbitrarily one day by someone rather than informed by the data available to them, just doesn't make sense.

Of course they have reasons. They also had reasons for region locking, and friend codes, and accounts tied to hardware, and calling their console "Wii U". "They probably have data that points to this being a good thing that you just don't know about" isn't a particularly convincing argument, but it doesn't matter because I never implied that this was some kind of random arbitrary idea in the first place.