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FT: EU and China strengthen climate ties to counter US retreat

While I am not the biggest fan of china on a lot of political fronts, I will admit they have been very good on the subject of climate change lately. This is positive news and I hope these kind of agreements will lead to america getting less influence on global politics.

China is very vulnerable to climate change (huge costal low lying cities)and it threatens the CPC's stability

Plus their smart and now that even if its too late, people will switch to low carbon energy. Why not be at the forefront, people will have to buy chinese products!

Its a win win for them
 
Am I in the wrong that I feel somewhat relieved by this? I'm mad that Trump is pulling out of the treaty, and that this is going to affect my country negatively,but I am glad that all other super powers are taking this seriously and may work harder to counter Trump's actions.
 
Any source on this?

Yes, me.

Not that it matters, because it's obviously a bit of extra cash on the top of whatever China's already putting into this project.

So are the EU, India and the US.

The EU, India and China are willing to change that though.

So the first thing isn't true, and the second thing is at best hopefully true. I hope it's true, but I am deeply, deeply, deeply skeptical that Friday's announcement contains anything that drastic or binding.
 

Sioen

Member
Good, I hope we in Europe can actually find a loyal partner instead of the USA who only used us as a pro USA wall against the east.
 

Akuun

Looking for meaning in GAF
How can the President justify ignoring every science authority in the country. Trump's piss-poor leadership that runs in the opposite direction of all evidence really is one for the history books.
I imagine most of the GOP is like "I can't hear you over the sound of all this lobby money."

Trump probably simply TL;DRed all of it because it's not colorful enough, because scientific publications don't mention his name, and because he's straight up too stupid to understand any of it anyway.
 

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
China is very vulnerable to climate change (huge costal low lying cities)and it threatens the CPC's stability

Plus their smart and now that even if its too late, people will switch to low carbon energy. Why not be at the forefront, people will have to buy chinese products!

Its a win win for them

It's a lot of things altogether that are making China focus on this. It isn't altruism.

1. Renewables are at a point where they are both cost effective and in the long run will save money and resources. It doesn't hurt that they can look at existing technologies that spent a lot of R&D to develop and "copy" them.

2. China is still trying to upgrade its infrastructure and they have the money, cheap man power, and government facilitated ability to do it. Countries that might get in a little late benefit from the latest technology breakthroughs.

3. The pollution is choking their citizens and affects how they look on the world stage.

4. China has a vast amount of coal that they can keep as a strategic reserve.
 

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
The biggest mistake the US is making is not having enough incentives for businesses to go green. It would enhance their competitiveness and create jobs.

Dumb!
 

4Tran

Member
Trump has done a hell of a lot to help China out. Hell, he's probably done as much for China as he has for Russia, and China's benefits are going to have bigger long term payoffs. However, we shouldn't lay all the blame on Trump; he's echoing standard Republican talking points and policies. They're all just as bad, and the US is going to have to get rid of them if they want any chance of recovering from this mess.

That's a crazy interesting article. I've noticed the big shift in attitude, but seeing the whole thing laid out like that is fascinating. Thanks for the link.

Inbe4 China and Euro will start to rebuild the Silk road. Gotta transport dem electric vehicles.
That's already happening. You can load up a train in Tianjin or Shanghai and unload it in Germany now.
 

Gallbaro

Banned
So the USA be the North Korea of energy consumption?

Unfortunately it is a game theory that the USA is acting rationally in its self interest as long as everyone else is acting in the world's best interest.

We abuse and everyone else is stuck dealing with it, a la North Korea.
 
How bad would this be for people who just bought a place? My sibling is signing on a house soon...

If they have a fixed rate mortgage (and the rate is locked in) and a recession isn't likely to leave them unemployed, they should be fine. If the rate isn't locked in, or fixed, then their mortgage payment could go up a lot. If their job is at risk, then they're in trouble either way.

Hopefully all will be okay.
 

Gallbaro

Banned
That's already happening. You can load up a train in Tianjin or Shanghai and unload it in Germany now.

Still more efficient to ship via sea. Silk road is more to enable the internal development of China. Pretty much all development had been the coast.
 
What the hell are we doing? We are going to fall behind on the sustainable technology front. This is where the future of the high tech industry will be heading, and our national dialogue is heading in the opposite direction because luddites can't get their shit together or refuse to retrain/reeducate themselves in another field.
 
While I am not the biggest fan of china on a lot of political fronts, I will admit they have been very good on the subject of climate change lately. This is positive news and I hope these kind of agreements will lead to america getting less influence on global politics.

China understands because they are going through some of the most difficult struggles with regards to fighting climate change.

Large parts of China are being swallowed by the Gobi Desert. You begin to understand how serious it is when you think about how close Beijing is to it. It would be equivelant of walking around in New York with water to your knees.


But people have said for many decades that the project is impossible. Perhaps it's why it's not covered as much as it should. It's absolutely an incredible goal.


if they manage to complete it, it will be one of the largest manmade accomplishments in the history of the world. We're talking about the largest manmade forestation in the history of human kind.

The problems are immense, and there are so many; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-North_Shelter_Forest_Program

Between storms, disease, overfarming, lack of biodiversity and other factors, it's a massive massive challenge. They're planting more trees for this effort than the rest of the world combined.
China is fighting its own hyper capitalism with its knowledge of what will happen to it if it doesn't take this fight head on.



But Imagine the prospect if it was possible to essential forest-ify this massive chunk of desert. I really hope they succeed, but I think it will take revolutions in technology and distribution. It will take very smart engineering and introduction of specific plants and animals to help stabilize a ecosystem that doesn't root away to vulnerable diseases.
 

Wereroku

Member
How can the President justify ignoring every science authority in the country. Trump's piss-poor leadership that runs in the opposite direction of all evidence really is one for the history books. If we can make it long enough to put out an edition on his foibles.
Probably the same way that the EU can ignore the science behind GMOs.

If there is enough support behind an anti science stance it can be propagated just look at the anti vac movement.
 

4Tran

Member
So the USA be the North Korea of energy consumption?

Unfortunately it is a game theory that the USA is acting rationally in its self interest as long as everyone else is acting in the world's best interest.

We abuse and everyone else is stuck dealing with it, a la North Korea.
The problem is that the US isn't even acting in its own self interest. The only groups that benefit much from it are the big energy companies and that benefit does not trickle down.

Still more efficient to ship via sea. Silk road is more to enable the internal development of China. Pretty much all development had been the coast.
The land route has two advantages: it provides strategic redundancy and it's faster. That speed is a big deal for certain industries, and it's one of the reasons why HP is using the land route more than the sea route for bringing goods into Europe.
 

Usobuko

Banned
The problem is that the US isn't even acting in its own self interest. The only groups that benefit much from it are the big energy companies and that benefit does not trickle down.

Yup.

I always amazed how the poor can be played like a fiddle by the special interest.
 

Goldmund

Member
This is good news, I guess, but I feel sorry for all the Americans for whom scientific progress and the conservation and propagation of knowledge is the raison d'être. I hope that whoever inherits the damage done by this administration isn't made responsible for it for once.
 
Ohh hey look the rest of the world gets together to laugh and point fingers at us and a bunch of American conserva ... I mean morons are going to all think this is great.
 

Shoeless

Member
Good.

Although pretty unfortunate and embarrassing that Trump is truly ceding a huge part of our future to China.

It does dramatically highlight how different Trump and the Republican party's definition of a "win" is and the terms of victory. This pretty much shows that all they care about is corporations profiting from fewer environmental restrictions, but only for short term. They neither care about America's role in the energy industry in the future, nor do they care about America's position in the global economy, the ONLY thing that matters is making money in the next 10 years while they are still alive, and everything else is secondary.
 

Loxley

Member
And once a Democrat gets back in the oval office, we too can join the rest of the sane world in the 21st century.
 
Probably the same way that the EU can ignore the science behind GMOs.

If there is enough support behind an anti science stance it can be propagated just look at the anti vac movement.

Its probably not the science behind GMO that makes the EU anti GMO, but more that the GMO seeds are mostly provided by outside countries. Not sure how open the patent bank is on GMO but my gut says most of the
patents are not inside of a EU company. Making us dependent on US made seeds from Monsanto.

God knows what kind of grow switches those seeds can have.
Like buy our fertilizer to maximize the growth of our GM seeds or minimize the growth of our seeds when using a 3rd party fertilizer.
inbe4 conspiracy and shit.
 
I'm starting to think that's the point of trump. Ruin our economy. Fire sell to Russia and others. Profit. He said he profits form recession.

I also think in the grand scheme of things this is all for profit, I mean globally a main chunk of the future consumer base will be in the East and damaging America's image for the sake of fortifying the sheep of the East as dignified consumers can only be good for globalized profits in the long-run.
 

Damaniel

Banned
Republicans: standing *literally* alone in denying climate change. Are there any political parties anywhere else in the world that outright deny climate change like the GOP? Even the most vile ultra right wing parties elsewhere still support doing something about it.

Democrats are going to be stuck picking up the pieces from this. Again. For years. Sorry, world.
 

Micael

Member
Still more efficient to ship via sea. Silk road is more to enable the internal development of China. Pretty much all development had been the coast.

Not quite, one needs to think of the future, in the future fully autonomous electric trucks will be able to transport large quantities of products without having to worry about resting times, and much lower fuel costs, meaning transporting things by land will be a lot faster, a lot cheaper and more importantly in a world trying to cut down on emissions using electric trucks will be much better than using boats which are highly unlikely to go electric anytime soon.
 

Haunted

Member
Am I in the wrong that I feel somewhat relieved by this? I'm mad that Trump is pulling out of the treaty, and that this is going to affect my country negatively,but I am glad that all other super powers are taking this seriously and may work harder to counter Trump's actions.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

Trump and Putin emerging as a new axis of evil and other countries coming together to fight against it - it all feels terribly familiar.
 

Gallbaro

Banned
Not quite, one needs to think of the future, in the future fully autonomous electric trucks will be able to transport large quantities of products without having to worry about resting times, and much lower fuel costs, meaning transporting things by land will be a lot faster, a lot cheaper and more importantly in a world trying to cut down on emissions using electric trucks will be much better than using boats which are highly unlikely to go electric anytime soon.
Rail maybe but for long distance freight transport, trucks will never be more efficient than rail or ships.

Rubber is just too high friction and truck tonnage causes too much damage to roads.
 
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