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[nelsonroyale]

Seeing it in those screens, I am hoping it looks more impressive in motion. So far, I am not sure why they are not making current gen versions.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

I don't see any dark corners worthy of hiding in, in that screenshot.

Masks = social stealth. Essentially hiding in plain sight as you do in more than one of missions in Dishonoured.

 

[Gozer the Gozerian]

Man I reaaally hope they nail the sound design on this one, the ambient audio and music tracks were such a crucial part of the thick nighttime atmosphere of the original three. This game has a lot to live up to:

Trail of Blood - Thief 2
Framed - Thief 2
Auldale - Thief 3
Overlook Manse - Thief 3

Those two always seemed to be everywhere. It was adorable

Yes, definitely need these guys back:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgSwjGkJYRM

Masks = social stealth. Essentially hiding in plain sight as you do in more than one of missions in Dishonoured.

That Dishonored mission was such a brilliant concept that they completely failed to execute on. The very first person I talked to at the party asked for a drink then immediately told me who the target was. Great.

 

[Derrick01]

^ Yeah that mission is really overrated in Dishonored.

They do give you a lot of ways to handle it, but each way makes the mission last about 5 minutes.

 

[Deleted member 102362]

Yes, definitely need these guys back:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgSwjGkJYRM

That's hilarious. I never even knew that was in 3.

Those two guards have what I shall call the Mr. Ford Effect, where your ass is everywhere.

 

[justjim89]

I think what bothered me more than anything else in Thief 3 was that fucking awful papyrus font. Who said that was a good idea?

 

[Jenga]

Aww man, I'm gonna go beat Thief 1-3 before this comes out for sure.

but then you'll see why thief 4 sounds like an abortion

you're better off playing dishonored and assassin's creed

 

[DrSlek]

- “Focus” mechanic: has many uses, including being able to aid Garrett’s vision as he navigates through open levels
- Focus lights up the screen and highlights pipes you can climb + candles you can put out to make the room darker

 

[justjim89]

I don't see what's so bad about focus, as long as it's used right. Doesn't seem directly analogous to instinct/detective vision. Special objects, loot, and doors all highlighted in Thief 1 and 2, that hardly made them easy.

 

[bigdaddygamebot]

The whole "Focus" feature sounds ...like precisely what I don't want. Been a bad Q1 I suppose and I'm erring on the said of developers making the wrong decision and chasing the broader demographic much to the detriment of the game.

I don't see what's so bad about focus, as long as it's used right. Doesn't seem directly analogous to instinct/detective vision. Special objects, loot, and doors all highlighted in Thief 1 and 2, that hardly made them easy.

You bet they did.

So why add this?

 

[Deleted member 102362]

This thread begs the question: are we focusing too much on Focus?

I'm waiting until I actually see some gameplay footage before passing judgement.

 

[bigdaddygamebot]

This thread begs the question: are we focusing too much on Focus?

I'm waiting until I actually see some gameplay footage before passing judgement.

If they don't want us talking about it or speculating about the list of features...then don't release the information.

Loved the Thief series so I would love to eat crow on this. A number of big developers lately aren't exactly killing it when it comes to making smart design decisions.

 

[Derrick01]

This thread begs the question: are we focusing too much on Focus?

I'm waiting until I actually see some gameplay footage before passing judgement.

Maybe. With as many examples from this gen as we have of people implementing something similar and having it ruin the game, I don't blame anyone being nervous.

But if they can make it a toggle option like in Deus Ex HR then I don't mind. The single most critical aspect to this game will be level design. If it's not complex and well planned then this game will fail. It really comes down to that.

 

[Lancehead]

The game might end up enjoyable, but it's quite clear they're going to make it into a stealth hybrid, because moar options! And that's not something I want out of a Thief game.

 

[Persona86]

This thread is giving me deja vu.

 

[justjim89]

The game might end up enjoyable, but it's quite clear they're going to make it into a stealth hybrid, because moar options! And that's not something I want out of a Thief game.

Thief games have always had a multitude of options. That's what made them so unique. Enter this way, or over there? Go for everything, or just get by the minimum? Rely on items, or simply your wits? Avoid guards entirely, blackjack them, or just take them out in a swordfight? Thief games have always been incredibly open and versatile, and it seems as though their intention is to continue that.

 

[Lancehead]

Thief games were designed with stealth gameplay as its core.

Garrett was someone who was an excellent thief. His combat skills (sword-fighting and bow) were only as good as a well trained soldier. He's only as athletic as a physically well conditioned man. Combat is never really the best option for him, and facing more than one enemy can easily kill him. He was simply a master thief.

Now this new Garrett is seemingly multiclass specialist thief/assassin/ninja/whatever else with super powers. I'd be very surprised if Eidos don't make non-stealth gameplay a core feature.

 

[justjim89]

Garrett was someone who was an excellent thief. His combat skills (sword-fighting and bow) were only as good as a well trained soldier. He's only as athletic as a physically well conditioned man. Combat is never really the best option for him, and facing more than one enemy can easily kill him. He was simply a master thief.

Literally all of this seems to be intact from the article. The combat takedown aspect seemed to be more focused on escaping in the way they emphasized it.

 

[Gozer the Gozerian]

What is Eric Brosius up to these days? I'm sure it's a long shot but it'd be cool if they could get him back on board.

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

Now this new Garrett is seemingly multiclass specialist thief/assassin/ninja/whatever else with super powers. I'd be very surprised if Eidos don't make non-stealth gameplay a core feature.

We've seen absolutely nothing to indicate this.

 

[Lancehead]

Literally all of this seems to be intact from the article. The combat takedown aspect seemed to be more focused on escaping in the way they emphasized it.

We didn't read the same article then?

Fighting against four or more guards in combat won’t go well
Team is trying to find a balance between making combat enjoyable and allowing players to enter combat if they want
The entirety of Focus: X-ray vision, slow down time, attack points on enemies
Leaping across rooftops
Upgrade system

We've seen absolutely nothing to indicate this.

Who's jumping to conclusions? I'm making a hypothesis based what information is available (see above), and the general trend in modern gaming design.

 

[waypoetic]

That focus thing sounds like hand holding. But hey, that yellow bullshit in Deus Ex : HR you could turn off, so let's hope you can do that in this game as well..

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

Who's jumping to conclusions? I'm making a hypothesis based what information is available (see above), and the general trend in modern gaming design.

Despite all that, the game still seems to be about sticking to the shadows and stealing stuff, while avoiding combat. Nothing indicates that is not the case.

Either way, we should wait for more info and footage before making sweeping judgements.

 

[justjim89]

We didn't read the same article then?

Fighting against four or more guards in combat won’t go well
Team is trying to find a balance between making combat enjoyable and allowing players to enter combat if they want
The entirety of Focus: X-ray vision, slow down time, attack points on enemies
Leaping across rooftops
Upgrade system

-The 4 or more guards line was used to emphasize Garrett isn't a fighter. It didn't necessarily mean you can fight 3 and be ok.
-Making combat enjoyable suddenly means it's Ninja Gaiden? You could easily enter combat in the old ones, as well. Didn't break the stealth.
-Focus seems to be a way to emphasize Garrett's natural thief talents. Spotting finger prints, identifying valuable items, methods of escape, etc. Elements of that, as I've mentioned, have been present before. Slowing down time is certainly new, but hardly anything to freak out about.
-You mean theatrics like ones on display in the intro to Deadly Shadows?
-Strikes me as a natural evolution of the between mission shopping, personally.

 

[Ushae]

Does this mean that they aren't making Deus Ex Sequel, or is that another team?

 

[Meccanical]

Does this mean that they aren't making Deus Ex Sequel, or is that another team?

There is no confirmation on a Deus Ex sequel, but the Thief team is not the Deus Ex team.

 

[RoboPlato]

Does this mean that they aren't making Deus Ex Sequel, or is that another team?

Eidos Montreal has 450 employees. Probably a different team. They've said the Thief team has remained small the whole time to keep it focused.

 

[Lancehead]

Despite all that, the game still seems to be about sticking to the shadows and stealing stuff, while avoiding combat. Nothing indicates that is not the case.

The article says Garrett can take on multiple guards, they want to make sure players have options when are spotted, which includes combat, and they want to allow players to play aggressively. I don't process that information as "is about avoiding combat", but rather as "is about multiple playstyles, stealth and non-stealth, to solve levels".

Either way, we should wait for more info and footage before making sweeping judgements.

I'm judging what's available out there.

-The 4 or more guards line was used to emphasize Garrett isn't a fighter. It didn't necessarily mean you can fight 3 and be ok.

No, it emphasises that combat is a good option if you don't want stealth.

-Making combat enjoyable suddenly means it's Ninja Gaiden? You could easily enter combat in the old ones, as well. Didn't break the stealth.

I'm talking about how they want to accommodate aggressive play styles.

-Focus seems to be a way to emphasize Garrett's natural thief talents. Spotting finger prints, identifying valuable items, methods of escape, etc. Elements of that, as I've mentioned, have been present before. Slowing down time is certainly new, but hardly anything to freak out about.

Focus is a shitty way to remove player skill. Slow down is one of the worst features of it.

-You mean theatrics like ones on display in the intro to Deadly Shadows?

TDS is crap. I don't refer to it when I talk about original Thief games.

-Strikes me as a natural evolution of the between mission shopping, personally.

Strikes me as a way to allow various extraneous non-thief features/abilities/powers they want to introduce. Besides it's ironic they call him the master thief and yet you can upgrade him. Maybe he'll become the grandmaster thief or something.

 

[RustyNails]

I wonder how Thief will fit in today's world of upgrading and augmenting your skills like Human Revolution. Are you gonna have the same loadout from your first level to the last?

 

[justjim89]

I'm thinking arrow enhancements and additional items may be upgrades. Water arrows, fire arrows, potions, etc. Increased movement speed and jump range could be pretty easily done, as well, without compromising the stealth.

 

[mantidor]

The thing about focus really is that I don't see why anyone who has played the old games could come up with such idea, it doesn't improve on anything.

 

[Meccanical]

The thing about focus really is that I don't see why anyone who has played the old games could come up with such idea, it doesn't improve on anything.

It improves on hand holding, that's the one thing the series was missing.

 

[EviLore]

Navigation beacons and detective mode highlighting, oh joy.

 

[Confidence Man]

The thing about focus really is that I don't see why anyone who has played the old games could come up with such idea, it doesn't improve on anything.

It improves Garrett's lame "regular time" limitation.

 

[FACE]

Navigation beacons and detective mode highlighting, oh joy.

The joys of modern big budget games.

 

[∀ Narayan]

Just read all of the magazine details in the OP. Focus is definitely a concern, as it sounds like a function that will be necessary in order to progress throughout the game. The inclusion of such a feature will be fine as long as its overly assistive features are optional. My other concern is how well the lore from the previous titles is incorporated into this title. At the end of Thief: Deadly Shadows, Garrett becomes the one true Keeper. What does this mean for his future? What about the girl that tried to pickpocket him at the end of TS? I hope the development team isn't dismissive about these particular developments.

One thing I'm really hoping for is the exploration of neighboring territories. Focusing on The City alone wouldn't be bad, but there are mentions of other areas in each game, and I'm very curious as to how other areas in the Thief universe have developed.

It improves on hand holding, that's the one thing the series was missing.

I feel that the original titles were designed well enough to the point where the inclusion of hand holding elements would be trivial.

 

[KenOD]

This thread begs the question: are we focusing too much on Focus?

I'm waiting until I actually see some gameplay footage before passing judgement.

I'm waiting to hear if it's optional or not. Like Dishonored's multiple GO HERE! bits. As long as as it is, the bits of this game sound interesting enough to me.

 

[Laurentius]

J0ZQm

 

[RoboPlato]

After all of the outcry before HR came out about the object highlighting, I'm pretty sure Eidos Montreal will make anything like that optional. There were huge threads and petitions and everything dedicated just to asking EM to make it optional. They initially wanted to make it mandatory, but after all of the pushback from the community they made it optional.

I would think they would have learned from that to make anything like that optional for the player.

Yeah, if they make it optional then it works out well for them on all fronts. More casual players will be able to use those kinds of things that they expect and the longtime fans can completely ignore it. It's a win win. After HR I'm pretty confident that it'll be optional.

 

[El_Chino]

Any word on the technology being used in this game?

 

[Mau ®]

OMG!!!!!!!

I guess I'll have to buy a PS4 earlier than expected.

Thief: Dark Project is one of the best games I've ever played.

 

[mantidor]

Being optional doesn't really make it better. Guiding the player should be done through visual hints, level design and lore, which the first two games did fantastically well. Your clue should be things like the only room with the light on, (or off!), not some beacon that when deactivated will make you grind for all doors.

Seriously, Thief 2 has a whole level which is only doing reconnaissance of the place you are actually going to rob in the next mission! thats the kind of polish and size in level design we are talking about.

 

[PowderedToast]

they want to allow players to play aggressively.

yes but are we talking panther levels of aggressive?? i want my animal sound effects when i slice up a bro

 

[justjim89]

Being optional doesn't really make it better. Guiding the player should be done through visual hints, level design and lore, which the first two games did fantastically well. Your clue should be things like the only room with the light on, (or off!), not some beacon that when deactivated will make you grind for all doors.

Seriously, Thief 2 has a whole level which is only doing reconnaissance of the place you are actually going to rob in the next mission! thats the kind of polish and size in level design we are talking about.

Idk, the original Thief could be kinda bad about giving the player a direction. Bonehoard was an atrocious maze filled with nonsensical zombies and dinosaurs. I only got through it with an FAQ. I just started playing The Sword and ended up wandering aimlessly for an hour without finding anything. Perhaps modern games have spoiled me, but that shit was infuriating. If they're going to keep the levels big, I wouldn't be offended by a bit of guidance.

 

[∀ Narayan]

Any word on the technology being used in this game?

Unreal Engine 3, as far as I know. Could have been moved to Unreal Engine 4.

 

[El_Chino]

Unreal Engine 3, as far as I know. Could have been moved to Unreal Engine 4.

I figured as much, thanks!

 

[DocSeuss]

I should probably show you a screenshot of the original game.

There are rooms where there are only three textures, and they're all grey, so it's SUPER OBVIOUS that you can climb a rope.

In a more modern game, I'm betting the player will have a harder time seeing this stuff.

Focus likely exists because old games had crappy graphics. New games do not.

After all of the outcry before HR came out about the object highlighting, I'm pretty sure Eidos Montreal will make anything like that optional. There were huge threads and petitions and everything dedicated just to asking EM to make it optional. They initially wanted to make it mandatory, but after all of the pushback from the community they made it optional.

I would think they would have learned from that to make anything like that optional for the player.

In the end, every single one of those people were wrong about it ruining the game. Like what I said above, it's basically compensating for stuff these games used to simply do with textures. In games like Thief and Deus Ex, objects were a LOT simpler and extremely obvious. If it looked like it could be interacted with, then it could be interacted with. Human Revolution, on the other hand, was extremely rich in visuals, and knowing what could or couldn't be seen was a lot harder.

I'm currently playing No One Lives Forever, and every single interactible object sticks out like a sore thumb. Yup, that's a briefcase hiding under a table. Ah-hah, that's a letter. That's definitely the briefcase I'm looking for.

If someone made a modern NOLF, an instinct system would be the only viable way to make objects stick out as strongly as it had before. Human Revolution's highlighter vision was far more visually appealing than the original Deus Ex's extremely obvious usable items, and had little, if any, impact in the difficulty of spotting objects between the two game.

Focus will likely be the same way.

Stupid fuckers are just bitching because they want to bitch.

If you're going to complain, complain about how DEHR screwedup stealth, or how it prioritized the stealthy nonlethal playthrough with more XP than other playthroughs, creating a "right" way to play (and encouraging grinding) in a game that should have been all about choice.

 

[Kurt]

I'm dissapointed in seeing those screenshots.
While the game could be good, it doesnt look next gen at all... sorry

 

[Ventilaator]

- Focus lights up the screen and highlights pipes you can climb + candles you can put out to make the room darker

Oh go to hell, videogames. Why the hell do you need to specially light up candles, aren't candles kind of already on fire?

 

[WorstUsernameEver]

I was tentatively happy about the Montreal guys handling this after Deus Ex: Human Revolution, especially given that the team showed an understanding of their own failings with The Missing Link DLC (not only was the boss better, but the level design a lot more organic too) but now... ugh.

Given the development hell it went through, without a clear direction, I'm not even sure this game will be able to stand on its own legs.

Yeah, yeah, negative nancy, but at least I can be positively surprised later!