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Game Informer: " Why Xenoblade Chronicles Makes Me Want To Punch a Kitten"

Q

qizah

Unconfirmed Member
I don't know, I disagree with this sentiment. I have loved playing PS2 and now PSP games remastered in HD on my PS3. Those games were designed for systems less powerful than the Wii and yet they are much better on and HD system and still look fantastic even though they were not originally designed for HD platforms.

Even when replaying games i have beaten many times over i continually find myself being amazed and thinking "I am finally experiencing this the way it was meant to be played" and finally seeing what the designers really intended. I guess I'm just a graphics whore though?

Nah.

I can see the appeal definitely. Some people like to see classics reborn through updated visuals and that's fine, there's obviously an audience for it with the various HD remakes out there.

I don't think I'd fall into that category personally. I usually like to play games in their original format -- there's only been a few instances where I've played a remake/remastered version (like OoT3D) since I haven't played the original and the 3D version was releasing soon, I waited to grab that rather than the VC version.
 

Hero

Member
and the argument is that some of us, right or wrong, don't want to be having the same arguments a few years after 2012 again either.

I'm used to where abouts i think the Wii U is going to be in comparison to current and next gen - i've had my rant and i've "gotten over it" but i can't hide the fact that i want, in an ideal world, the Wii U to be able to go toe to toe with the HD twins coming later.

It -is- a factor for people who have multi-consoles/PC - perhaps the OP rant is a bit over the top and, yes, we've heard it before but hey - i don't think it's trolling to want a company you care about to blow you away in all departments again.

Sure, that's a valid concern. If this article had waited until after e3 where Nintendo is going to give us the information we need and show us the capabilities of the system and it's only on par or slightly better than 360/PS3, it would have a legitimate angle that's new and not an old argument that's been made for the past six years.

I'm kind of curious what people are expecting out of the PS4 and Xbox 720. What kind of generational increment are they expecting? I've said it twice now in this thread and multiple times in other Wii U related threads but with Sony having lost so much money due to the PS3 and the Vita floundering already I am skeptical of a cutting edge PS4.
 

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
This thread is a prime example of A) why Nintendo fans as a whole end up getting their reputation around here; B) why so many people stick to the non-gaming forums; and C) why GAF threads in general end up in endless loops of repeated arguments.
 

KenOD

a kinder, gentler sort of Scrooge
It's actually quite amusing to me if I'm reading through that opinion piece and this thread while pretending the game in question is Super Mario Bros. Special and "it's NEC's fault" for not doing better for it's graphics when there exists more powerful hardware out there.

Going back in time the sentiment it still the same, the core problem is still there, I know I heard it from those coming from arcade games and then looking at the ZX Spectrum or Master System, but I still can't take it that seriously when it's so much closer to better versions of hardware and with cliché phrases and "come at me" type of statements.

Bugs, major vsync issues, long load times, copy paste quests, bad writing and story in general, indistinct environments and only an illusion of freedom.

Okay, those are issues, but those exist without being HD. Spider-Man 3 Movie game was worse on Wii because it wasn't on better hardware.
 

TrounceX

Member
Holy shit this was written by Chris Kluwe?

I often talk to the guy because he frequents my work. Had no idea he was so into video games except the one time we talked about Guitar Hero. I mean GH is a pretty casual game, and it made sense that he would like it because of his band and whatnot. But writing an article about Xenoblade and dropping FFVII references? Wow.

I'm definitely bringing this up next time I see him.

Oh and I also kind of agree with him and don't understand all the hate itt. It's true, Xenoblade among many other great Nintendo titles would probably be more enjoyable with better graphics. Why is this so controversial again?
 
This thread is a prime example of A) why Nintendo fans as a whole end up getting their reputation around here; B) why so many people stick to the non-gaming forums; and C) why GAF threads in general end up in endless loops of repeated arguments.
I don't know why I'm gonna do this but I'm gonna nitpick your post just to bug you.

People stick to the non-gaming forums? All the other forumz? I think you mean the one other one.

Also, I'm pretty sure the gaming section pretty consistently has a lot more people viewing than the OT section.

Endless loops of repeating arguments is a staple of the entire internet/world.
 
Then I guess GI is pretty good. They gave XB a 9. I also don't think this writer is a staff member.

A 9.5 actually. :)

So...Game Informer, a magazine run by Gamestop, is bashing a game sold in the US exclusively through...Gamestop. Huh.

It's almost like GameStop has no actual say in what they publish! Refreshing to see someone pick up on that in one of these threads.

This thread was nothing short of a delight to read, but I do genuinely wish more hardcore gaming fans would learn to take things a little less seriously all the time.
 

SteeloDMZ

Banned
This thread is a prime example of A) why Nintendo fans as a whole end up getting their reputation around here; B) why so many people stick to the non-gaming forums; and C) why GAF threads in general end up in endless loops of repeated arguments.

lol.

You know, Nintendo fans are not the only ones who are so passionate about games. You knew that, right? Or should I point you to threads like the Uncharted 3 review thread, or the Halo 4 GI reveal?
 
Holy shit this was written by Chris Kluwe?

I often talk to the guy because he frequents my work. Had no idea he was so into video games except the one time we talked about Guitar Hero. I mean GH is a pretty casual game, and it made sense that he would like it because of his band and whatnot. But writing an article about Xenoblade and dropping FFVII references? Wow.

I'm definitely bringing this up next time I see him.

Oh and I also kind of agree with him and don't understand all the hate itt. It's true, Xenoblade among many other great Nintendo titles would probably be more enjoyable with better graphics. Why is this so controversial again?

I think most of the anger from this thread came from the tone of the second part of the article which I will admit could have been handled better but I get the overall feeling of people being crazy defensive over this stuff for some reason.
 
It's actually quite amusing to me if I'm reading through that opinion piece and this thread while pretending the game in question is Super Mario Bros. Special and "it's NEC's fault" for not doing better for it's graphics when there exists more powerful hardware out there.

Going back in time the sentiment it still the same, the core problem is still there, I know I heard it from those coming from arcade games and then looking at the ZX Spectrum or Master System, but I still can't take it that seriously when it's so much closer to better versions of hardware and with cliché phrases and "come at me" type of statements.



Okay, those are issues, but those exist without being HD. Spider-Man 3 Movie game was worse on Wii because it wasn't on better hardware.

Wasn't that done by a different team though? Apples oranges.
 
The problem with complaining about Xenoblade's graphics, is that its far, far too late to do so. So it just comes off as petty whinning. The Wii came out in 2006, and it's now 2012.

"These wii graphics look like crap. They would be so much better if they were better."

"This car I'm driving would be so much better if it could fly and shoot lasers."
 
I think this is pretty arguable.

Of course it is.

Better battle system?

Maybe, but even though Xenoblade is a bit too automated it still finds away to be very involved. It also cuts out the tedium of jrpgs with lame mana restrictins and the like. It's just more enjoyable to play. I can't even remember much about VII's combat.

Limit breaks, summons, and the absence of automation in battle is exactly why I prefer VII's battle system to Xenoblade. I hate real time systems like XB and FFXII that give me the ability to control the movement of my character in combat, but still make me wait for automatic attacks to queue up. If you're going to let me run around in a battle, do what Star Ocean or Tales does and give me control over when I want to attack. Otherwise it's boring. Side/back/surprise attacks are not interesting.

Better growth system?

Materia is pretty lame. Characters really in the end have no importance. Unlike Vi which had blank slate characters, but your choices of what you attach to them stay and are all up to you. In VII Materia basically makes everyone interchangeable. That alone is pretty weak to me. Xenoblade at least has distinct characters that all have interesting classes and play styles, making party makeup actually important. Unlike VII.

FFVI and FFVII's growth systems are extremely similar. Magicite and Materia are basically the same thing, and the techniques unique to specific characters in FFVI like blitz /rune /sketch are comparable to the unique sets of limit breaks for characters in FFVII. I don't see any major difference or advantage FFVI has over FFVII in this regard.

Putting that aside, I loved all of the different kinds of summons, magics, and techniques that could be unlocked through materia, especially the command type. Double cut evolving into 4x cut, enemy skill giving me the abilities of monsters I defeated, mime, w-summon, w-item, etc. I felt like the amount of strategy you could (and had to for tougher fights) employ in the game gave its combat quite a bit of depth and enjoyment. Xenoblade's technique/skill system is bland/shallow in comparison.

Better story?

Maybe. But then again outside of Cloud's role nothing of VII is interesting to me. Meanwhile the world of Xenoblade and it's mythology while kind of trippy is cool to watch and playout. It's an interesting world to learn about, to see how it works. Outside of Midgar, I never cared about anything in VII's world. I won't forget the world of Xenoblade, how could I? It's two mech gods. XB's story is completely full of twists and turns and it's just entertaining. But thats just my opinion. I also think the cast of Xenoblade is a whole lot more well rounded. Nothing standout maybe, but nothing annoying and they seem to get equal play in the story. I really don't remember the characters of VII outside of Cloud, his story really just dominated it.

We disagree again. Outside of Cloud's story, I was deeply invested in learning about Sephiroth's relationship with SOLDIER and Shinra, his connections to Cloud, Zack, and Tifa and Aeris, I cared about Cid's story and his work with the Shinra Space program, Vincent's history /relationship with the Turks, Aeris' connection to the Ancients/Cetra and Shinra's reasons for needing her, the history of the planet and how it has the freaking ability to deploy bioweapons to defend itself? That world and those characters sucked me in and never let go. Xenoblade did not. Its story did not, and its characters did not. It was interesting, but it will be forgotten when the next big JRPG comes around, for me.

Also, Cyberpunk is just cooler than fantasy, or fantasy/sci-fi whatever the hell XB was supposed to be. That element is always going to have an appeal for me.

Better music?

Eh they both fall short compared to FFVIII.

Xenoblade's soundtrack has a handful of great tracks, but too much of it sounds the same I think. Many tracks sound too much like varied renditions of other tracks, and nothing sounds memorable. Everything sounds good, but not memorable. It doesn't establish the kind of connection with its narrative that's needed for it to be so.

FF soundtracks, on the other hand, ARE a part of their stories. Character themes, world themes, main themes, boss themes, are always representative of what that particular game is about. FFVII is a moody, melancholy, dramatic, tragic mess from beginning to end, and its soundtrack supports theme flawlessly. I could tell you to listen to a single track, Anxious Heart, and you would know instantly how that game feels. Succession of Witches or SeeD does the same for FFVIII. XB just doesn't make that kind of connection.

I'm not sure why btw. I'm an enormous fan of Mitsuda, and Xenogears, CT, and CC absolutely succeeded in having memorable music.
 

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
People stick to the non-gaming forums?
It's a pretty common theme over in OT actually and championed regularly.
Also, I'm pretty sure the gaming section pretty consistently has a lot more people viewing than the OT section.
And that changes what I said how?
Endless loops of repeating arguments is a staple of the entire internet/world.
GAF has its own special flavor.

I think most of the anger from this thread came from the tone of the second part of the article which I will admit could have been handled better but I get the overall feeling of people being crazy defensive over this stuff for some reason.

lol.

You know, Nintendo fans are not the only ones who are so passionate about games. You knew that, right? Or should I point you to threads like the Uncharted 3 review thread, or the Halo 4 GI reveal?
You think my comment automatically means other groups aren't affected?

lol

Every group has their passionate segments. How those segments color their larger groups as a whole is where they get differentiated.

Also, Cyberpunk is just cooler than fantasy, or fantasy/sci-fi whatever the hell XB was supposed to be. That element is always going to have an appeal for me.
Wait, FF7 is considered cyberpunk now?
 

KenOD

a kinder, gentler sort of Scrooge
Wasn't that done by a different team though? Apples oranges.

The point was being on HD is "serious consequences", but they clearly exist on SD console versions as well. It's not "apple, oranges", it's open world games can be bad games no matter what the hardware is.

This thread was nothing short of a delight to read, but I do genuinely wish more hardcore gaming fans would learn to take things a little less seriously all the time.

We should, and for the most part we are it's just that we sometimes forget to keeping our thoughts as being humorous and they become actual disappointment or harsher emotions.
 

SteeloDMZ

Banned
xenoblade doesn't have memorable songs? Oh, the stuff you read on this thread.

Satorl Marsh night, Bionis Leg, Colony 9, Makna Forest (should I keep going?)
 
Xenoblade is literally trying it's best to repair the damage that Final Fantasy has done to the genre in the last decade. But there's only so much it can do.
 
This thread is a prime example of A) why Nintendo fans as a whole end up getting their reputation around here; B) why so many people stick to the non-gaming forums; and C) why GAF threads in general end up in endless loops of repeated arguments.

I see what you guys have been saying about us in the NFL thread >:/
 

DCharlie

And even i am moderately surprised
Bugs, major vsync issues, long load times, copy paste quests, bad writing and story in general, indistinct environments and only an illusion of freedom.

"HD" - let's say "a more powerful console" - is a gateway to open up more gaming possibilities and design options. By its nature it usually means more memory, more CPU/GPU power, larger/faster storage* (- you know why it's star'ed!)

being on HD doesn't magically create the problems - bad design choices do. And SD has its fair share of sandbox games that are littered with issues.

A more powerful baseline means you can increase your scope , depending on how you design your sand box games mean you may (or may not!) run into issues.
 
These critics are amazingly short-sighted;

Do they ever think Nintendo (or probably any other publisher) would fund HD development of a project of this caliber?

Beside merely nagging, please use your brain please and prioritize between existence of XB in SD and non-existence of it in HD (or at least in a much smaller scale - and this is beside considering if the game would ever be the same if the focus was shifted toward graphics).
 

Sky Chief

Member
Nah.

I can see the appeal definitely. Some people like to see classics reborn through updated visuals and that's fine, there's obviously an audience for it with the various HD remakes out there.

I don't think I'd fall into that category personally. I usually like to play games in their original format -- there's only been a few instances where I've played a remake/remastered version (like OoT3D) since I haven't played the original and the 3D version was releasing soon, I waited to grab that rather than the VC version.

Yeah, the thing that strikes me though is that unlike OoT3D, most of the PS2 HD games just have enhanced resolution, framerate, and better AA with relatively few updated textures or models. I often find myself enjoying the graphics of these games more than "true" current gen games.

Granted I'm talking about games created by incredibly talented artists and programmers that were real standouts last gen (Metal Gear Solid, God of War, SOTC, etc...) but this has convinced me of two things:

1. I am perfectly happy with games that didn't cost $100 million to make as long as they are crisp and clean and in HD. Games can be far cheaper and still look amazing on good hardware.

2. I don't care at all that the Wii U might be a gen behind, I am sure that the games will look fantastic
 
It always felt more steampunk to me than cyberpunk, due to how they had throw in more fantasy elements to keep it feeling like FF.

FFVI would be steampunk. FFVII's emphasis on high-tech/low-life, poverty-stricken populations of people surrounded by advanced technology, powerful tech corporations lording over society; those are staples of the cyberpunk genre.
 

DCharlie

And even i am moderately surprised
Do they ever think Nintendo (or probably any other publisher) would fund HD development of a project of this caliber?

yet of all the companies who could actually afford it, it's Nintendo.

Perhaps indulging in a vanity project or two would be good to strengthen their already solid brand? And a AAA+ grade banner RPG surely seems like a good idea (ignoring sales aside)
 

Neverfade

Member
Although I really enjoy what you have to offer in the board game thread, all you've done in this thread is ask people to stop or move on. Why are you sticking around in this thread if all you're doing is telling people to not discuss their own opinions?

I guess I just hate what this nonsensical, cyclical arguing does to this forum. A great example, as you mention, is the BG thread. Everyone there has different tastes -- I despise a lot of shit people love and vice-verse, but there's not this 'no you're wrong!" "no YOU'RE wrong" bullshit that makes Gaming side a fucking nightmare to visit. Is there really anything anyone is going to say here on page...what 8? 9?.. that's going to make anyone else magically see the other side of an argument?

Sure, I'm pissing up a rope, I guess. Was just in a mood to chime in.

Now I'll move along.
 
Why are some people so defensive? I think Xenoblade is one of the games of the generation, and I completely agree with what he said. The graphics are completely held back by the Wii. I said it while playing many times even though I was still impressed by what they achieved. I'm eager to see what MonolithSoft can do with the Wii U. It will at least be on par with this gen, and it should be beautiful.


P.S. I think it's badass that the dude is the punter for the Vikings.
 

Christine

Member
Wait, FF7 is considered cyberpunk now?

.......It's always been considered cyberpunk......

uh no it hasnt, japanese games are their own thing, sounds like westerner after the fact trying to rigidly define a game within some set scifi genre.

Wikipedia includes FFVII in its list of cyberpunk works on the basis that a guy who wrote a newspaper article in 1997 thought a bit of a cut-scene looked like something from Blade Runner. Does that help?
 
really?

we are at page 16 and rising - i'd say they're going to be pretty happy at the focus it's bringing.

50 per page?
cmonson.gif
 
yet of all the companies who could actually afford it, it's Nintendo.

Perhaps indulging in a vanity project or two would be good to strengthen their already solid brand? And a AAA+ grade banner RPG surely seems like a good idea (ignoring sales aside)
The only reason that Nintendo can afford something like this, is that they didn't do everything they could afford to.

(That is, with all their money, they could make something that beats the Vita out of water in terms of specifications, yet they went with something underpowered.)


I think in the long-term, the case will be still the same: The market for high budget jRPGs is dead and as a customer I have 4 options:

1. Accept this reality and play great games but in SD
2. Wait for the companies that make high budget HD games that I like go bankrupt after making few games than don't sell
3. Ask companies to make high budget HD games that I may not like at all (like making them linear, adding much more action, etc.)
4. Wait for jRPG genre to improve over years (like how Elders Scrolls ended up with Skyrim as sand-box and fps gaming grow over last and this generation)
 
The only reason that Nintendo can afford something like this, is that they didn't do everything they could afford to.

(That is, with all their money, they could make something that beats the Vita out of water in terms of specifications, yet they went with something underpowered.)


I think in the long-term, the case will be still the same: The market for high budget jRPGs is dead.

I kind of think the reason the market for high budget jrpgs is dead mostly stems from there not having been a truely great high budget jrpg this gen. If a HD AAA budgeted jrpg came out that wowed people I wouldn't be surprised at all if there was a resurgence of the genre.
 
Hmm. Seems like the guy is just sick of aging hardware and is thinking the Wii U is going to be aged by the time it's even released, so that's where his frustration is coming from.

But as an rpg fan, I can't say the graphics in Xenoblade Chronicles ever bothered me. Not even a little. I guess because as an rpg fan, it's not unusual for me to go back to older systems like the PS1, PS2, even the SNES. I can't get bent out of shape over Xeno's visuals any more than I would when playing Dragon Quest VIII. Or Persona. Or Devil Summoner. Or Shadow Hearts. Or Nocturne. I don't necessarily play those kinds of games for the stunning graphics.

In fact, the better the visuals in an rpg, the worse an experience it ends of being. Not sure one has anything to do with the other, but there you are.
 

richiek

steals Justin Bieber DVDs
What a clusterfuck of a thread this is. And to top it all off, the author of the article posts here with his churlish responses.

I haven't seen this much butthurt since the iPad sales figures thread posted in the Gaming side.
 
I kind of think the reason the market for high budget jrpgs is dead mostly stems from there not having been a truely great high budget jrpg this gen. If a HD AAA budgeted jrpg came out that wowed people I wouldn't be surprised at all if there was a resurgence of the genre.
I think if this was the case, we would have already seen such games.

but I guess it even started since last gen where great jRPGs failed to sell nearly as much as they used to.
 

orioto

Good Art™
I'm so weird i found the game pretty beautiful and impressive, and i can't say that for every wii game, but i just hate its system.. I couldn't go through the first hours...

I hate it when everyone thinks different of me!
 
I think if this was the case, we would have already seen such games.

but I guess it even started since last gen where great jRPGs failed to sell nearly as much as they used to.

I'm not so sure, there is a bit of a lack of desire to take risks in the industry right now it seems not only in jrpgs but in all genres. I genuinely think that a single absolutely great high budget jrpg done right could really turn the genre around. The same thing happened with fighting games which were getting rather niche for a while there.
 

RagnarokX

Member
The only reason that Nintendo can afford something like this, is that they didn't do everything they could afford to.

(That is, with all their money, they could make something that beats the Vita out of water in terms of specifications, yet they went with something underpowered.)


I think in the long-term, the case will be still the same: The market for high budget jRPGs is dead and as a customer I have 4 options:

1. Accept this reality and play great games but in SD
2. Wait for the companies that make high budget HD games that I like go bankrupt after making few games than don't sell
3. Ask companies to make high budget HD games that I may not like at all (like making them linear, adding much more action, etc.)
4. Wait for jRPG genre to improve over years (like how Elders Scrolls ended up with Skyrim as sand-box and fps gaming grow over last and this generation)
I think Nintendo gauged that it was too early for HD, but GCN was a sinking ship. Wii was probably only intended to be a short-term thing while they waited about 3 years when HD would be more viable. However, Wii took off like crazy and Nintendo decided to wait a while on their HD system. Sony pushed the envelope too far this time (too expensive), so it will be interesting to see if they scale back how far they push next gen, though given how they repeated the same mistakes they made with PSP with Vita, I can see them pulling a PS3 all over again.
 

Kabouter

Member
So that's what a punter is to Americans huh?

Anyway, the man clearly has a point, even for those who refuse to admit it, given all the swooning over that Zelda tech demo that was shown last year. Nintendo fans too care about better graphics, and I've never understood why at relatively similar price points, fans have settled for so much less in that area.
 
But as an rpg fan, I can't say the graphics in Xenoblade Chronicles ever bothered me. Not even a little. I guess because as an rpg fan, it's not unusual for me to go back to older systems like the PS1, PS2, even the SNES. I can't get bent out of shape over Xeno's visuals any more than I would when playing Dragon Quest VIII. Or Persona. Or Devil Summoner. Or Shadow Hearts. Or Nocturne. I don't necessarily play those kinds of games for the stunning graphics.

In fact, the better the visuals in an rpg, the worse an experience it ends of being. Not sure one has anything to do with the other, but there you are.


I find myself going back to the older systems all of the time to play older RPGs, but I actually feel like they look better than newer games like Xenoblade or Tales of Graces. Dragon Quest VIII and FFXII should not look better than those two, but they do. The graphics in Xenoblade Chronicles annoy me because they're lazy, which is worse than being bad IMO. There's nothing lazy about DQVIII or FFXII.
 
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