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[TheSeks]

Anyway, the man clearly has a point, even for those who refuse to admit it, given all the swooning over that Zelda tech demo that was shown last year. Nintendo fans too care about better graphics, and I've never understood why at relatively similar price points, fans have settled for so much less in that area.

They shouldn't have settled for less even during the Wii's launch. We get pretty little graphic demos that actually didn't look bad in 2006. But then we're told "We're going SD/480i only" and that's basically ruined the graphics on the Wii fullstop for most people, especially people coming from the 360/PS3 where (even in sub-HD resolutions of 680i/p) the games look better/clearer because of the HD signal.

Like... SD has this "fog" effect and is brighter than HD and it makes the games look washed out and the like. So I can see where this dude is coming from. And "Dolphin" may solve this issue on PC, but that's besides the point: Not everyone has a computer capable of running Dolphin smoothly and they shouldn't need to run Dolphin just to have clearer graphics.

 

[M°°nblade]

Yes, they have RPG elements and they were made in Japan.
They do not, however, share enough characteristics with what is still currently considered a traditional JRPG to be labled as such.

Would you recommend this game to the Final Fantasy/Tales/Chrono Trigger/Breath of Fire/Golden Sun/etc.. loving crowd as a JRPG and not expect negative feedback?

You're going offtopic.

Starting a discussion why DS isn't 'traditional' doesn't change anything. It's still a JRPG, and combat, physics, animations, etc ... makes it the best game I've played in the last decade.

So no 'lol JRPG physics' please.

 

[Esura]

Yes, they have RPG elements and they were made in Japan.
They do not, however, share enough characteristics with what is still currently considered a traditional JRPG to be labled as such.

Would you recommend this game to the Final Fantasy/Tales/Chrono Trigger/Breath of Fire/Golden Sun/etc.. loving crowd as a JRPG and not expect negative feedback?

- Made in Japan
- Is a RPG

Its a JRPG to me.

Also, I wouldn't necessarily lump all those franchises together either as I wouldn't recommend Tales of to a FF fan or Chrono Trigger to a Golden Sun fan. Those franchises are decidedly different from each other.

EDIT: Well I would recommend them actually but I was trying to make a point...albeit poorly.

 

[MYE]

You're going offtopic.

Starting a discussion why DS isn't 'traditional' doesn't change anything. It's still a JRPG, and combat, physics, animations, etc ... makes it the best game I've played in the last decade.

So no 'lol JRPG physics' please.

Offtopic? I'm arguing against your choice of "JRPG" done right.

And the physics in the Souls games is the worst thing about them anyway. They are pretty bad so yeah, not a good example.

Seems to me you just want to name-drop those games because you really like them. Hey, I like them too.

 

[Spieler Eins]

Easy, people just came from playing a game on the PS3 or 360.

I remember when I was playing the Uncharted 3 demo at an event last year, went home playing Xenoblade and was immediately blown away by the final area

I'm not saying Xenoblade is a bad game because it sells poor.
I'm saying that it's a shame that a game that seems of high quality to (relatively speaking) few gamers, won't get the enjoyment or sales it deserves because it falls below the standards of many gamers.

It did good for what it is in two areas for now, it would have probably sold less on PS360, looking at other JRPG sales data that isn't Final Fantasy. Many ,gamers' that know their hobby properly outside of the mainstream stuff still got this game (and you won't ever get huge sales succes by only pleasing the ,true' core of hobby gamers), since fortunately not everyone is part of the finicky ,,Only shiny can be good, old = BAAAD''-crowd.

 

[SmokyDave]

Totally agree with the guy. Wii games look shite on HDTV's. Still, there's always Dolphin.

 

[NBtoaster]

Some day people will need to accept that graphics and technology are the most important aspects of game development. They directly affect what kind of gameplay and design are possible. Of course, there are other ways to advance what is possible as well (like control methods).

People shouldn't be as accepting of outdated hardware with the Wii U because the pad could end up underutilised (or inadaquate), and then the gameplay it delivers could be left behind by whats possible on more advanced hardware.

 

[mclem]

Yep I know. The thing is ... I'm not skipping platforms just because they're not very powerful.
I skip them because I know I can't enjoy technically outdated games.

I agree! By much the same token, Battleship > It's A Wonderful Life.

It's not even in *colour*, and the effects are shite.

 

[MYE]

Some day people will need to accept that graphics and technology are the most important aspects of game development.

No, the most important aspect of game development is a solid foundation of good ideas, good design, solid gameplay mechanics and a grasp of how to glue all of it into a coherent experience.

Amazing graphics and high end tech are tools that will only enhance an already good game, not make it. When the latter happens, its not really a good game, just something that uses graphics as a crutch and will ultimately age poorly as the shiny coat of paint looses its wow factor.

 

[SmokyDave]

I agree! By much the same token, Battleship > It's A Wonderful Life.

It's not even in *colour*, and the effects are shite.

It's A Wonderful Life (Blu-Ray) > It's A Wonderful Life (VHS).

 

[BritBloke916]

I agree! By much the same token, Battleship > It's A Wonderful Life.

It's not even in *colour*, and the effects are shite.

Ah, but It's A Wonderful Life would be SO much nicer to watch in full HD via Blu-Ray remaster than off a VHS cassette

Edit: Bah! Beaten

 

[Criminal Upper]

It's A Wonderful Life (Blu-Ray) > It's A Wonderful Life (VHS).

Move that goalpost.

 

[MYE]

It's A Wonderful Life (Blu-Ray) > It's A Wonderful Life (VHS).

But imagine how much better that movie would have been if it had 10X its original budget right from the beggining. They could hire any actor they wanted, build any set they could imagine and there would be no limits to what the writters and director could do with it.

Maybe they wouldnt make a profit but surely with all that money we would have the same movie, but 10X better. More of everything can only result in good things.

 

[mclem]

It's A Wonderful Life (Blu-Ray) > It's A Wonderful Life (VHS).

Strictly speaking, Blu-Ray/DVD would be a more appropriate parallel. Are you stating categorically that you are incapable of enjoying It's A Wonderful Life on any platform that isn't Blu-Ray? You won't enjoy it if it randomly turns up on some (non-HD) broadcast TV channel?

 

[Jubern]

I can totally see the point he's trying to make, but putting it that way is just terrible. I mean, come on.

 

[SmokyDave]

Move that goalpost.

They weren't my goalposts, I was just calling it as I saw it.

Strictly speaking, Blu-Ray/DVD would be a more appropriate parallel. Are you stating categorically that you are incapable of enjoying It's A Wonderful Life on any platform that isn't Blu-Ray? You won't enjoy it if it randomly turns up on some (non-HD) broadcast TV channel?

I don't need to worry about that when I'm given a choice between VHS/DVD and Blu-Ray from the off. It's not like a Wii game is going to suddenly turn up on my TV, I'd have to purchase it.

Now, I'd rather watch Mad Max on VHS than It's A Wonderful Life on Blu-Ray, but that wouldn't stop me from wishing that Mad Max was on Blu-ray.

This analogy is totally tortured and I've come in halfway through a conversation. Basically, the Wii looks like shit and it negatively affected my enjoyment and perception of the platform.

 

[Rebel Leader]

I’m asking, no, I’m begging you, Nintendo. Cut those shackles. Let Mario, let Link, let our beloved heroes of youth soar like we know they can. Let us visit the worlds they deserve to inhabit.

Deserve?.... What?

 

[NBtoaster]

No, the most important aspect of game development is a solid foundation of good ideas, good design, solid gameplay mechanics and a grasp of how to glue all of it into a coherent experience.

Amazing graphics and high end tech are tools that will only enhance an already good game, not make it. When the latter happens, its not really a good game, just something that uses graphics as a crutch and will ultimately age poorly as the shiny coat of paint looses its wow factor.

Those good ideas don't mean anything if you don't have the tech to implement them. And some ideas can only materialise when you have the tech.

 

[mclem]

I don't need to worry about that when I'm given a choice between VHS/DVD and Blu-Ray from the off. It's not like a Wii game is going to suddenly turn up on my TV, I'd have to purchase it.

And it's not like Xenoblade is going to suddenly turn up on an HD platform, someone would have to fund development.

Now, I'd rather watch Mad Max on VHS than It's A Wonderful Life on Blu-Ray, but that wouldn't stop me from wishing that Mad Max was on Blu-ray.

This wasn't discussed in terms of wishes, this was discussed in terms of being *incapable* of enjoying things that don't meet the current 'acceptable' standards. If someone stated that they were incapable of enjoying Mad Max because of the quality of the special effects, what would you think of them?

 

[7threst]

Those good ideas don't mean anything if you don't have the tech to implement them. And some ideas can only materialise when you have the tech.

Yes, but that is always a "what if" situation and doesn't mean that the currently available tech isn't enough to achieve what was meant to achieve. There is ALWAYS something that gamers would have love to see implemented in the games they are playing, whether it's ideas that can be implemented already because of available tech or ideas that cannot be materialized because of the limitations of hardware.
Fact is, that ideas materialise with tech in mind, and with tech in mind, these ideas are given shape. Ideas aren't necesarily dictated by the best tech around.

 

[Shion]

Visuals ARE a part of gaming.

Just don't. I came to the conclusion that there is no point in arguing with people who believe something like this:

"Complaining about PS2-quality graphics in 2012 = Graphic whore".

 

[Majine]

I actually like the article. It has a point, it has got people discussing. Good job, overall.

 

[Esura]

And it's not like Xenoblade is going to suddenly turn up on an HD platform, someone would have to fund development.


This wasn't discussed in terms of wishes, this was discussed in terms of being *incapable* of enjoying things that don't meet the current 'acceptable' standards. If someone stated that they were incapable of enjoying Mad Max because of the quality of the special effects, what would you think of them?

Nothing really. Many younger people nowadays are somewhat incapable of enjoying certain movies of the past and enjoy it in the same manner as those who did when it first came out.

 

[Bisnic]

Sure the game is PS2 era ugly.

But why does he complain this much? They're releasing a new HD console this year, which is basically what he is asking for. Would have i prefer Monolith Soft to wait for 2012 and Wii U before releasing Xenoblade for better resolution, AA and textures? Hell yeah. But it didnt happen, so we gotta wait for their next RPG which will probably blow people's mind if the zones are as amazing as Xenoblade ones.

 

[SmokyDave]

And it's not like Xenoblade is going to suddenly turn up on an HD platform, someone would have to fund development.

This wasn't discussed in terms of wishes, this was discussed in terms of being *incapable* of enjoying things that don't meet the current 'acceptable' standards. If someone stated that they were incapable of enjoying Mad Max because of the quality of the special effects, what would you think of them?

I have teenage nieces and nephews. They regularly tell me that they can't enjoy older films with shite effects and good luck trying to get them to appreciate older games. Strangely, music is exempt from this. I think it's because we're visual creatures. I don't think any less of them for it, if I'm honest.

 

[7threst]

I have teenage nieces and nephews. They regularly tell me that they can't enjoy older films with shite effects and good luck trying to get them to appreciate older games. Strangely, music is exempt from this. I think it's because we're visual creatures. I don't think any less of them for it, if I'm honest.

You are a good man! I would have a hard time controlling my rage if someone said they couldn't enjoy Mad Max or any other older movie I really like because it looks "dated", lol. I understand, but I really, really don't like it.

 

[whalleywhat]

I actually like the article. It has a point, it has got people discussing. Good job, overall.

Nazi Germany got people to travel the world.

 

[KevinCow]

Man, if angry message board rants are what's being passed off as gaming journalism these days, I could be the king of gaming journalism!

 

[Esura]

Nazi Germany got people to travel the world.

That's...an extreme.

 

[7threst]

Nazi Germany got people to travel the world.

That's pretty harsh.... Not cool.

 

[Metal Gear?!]

They shouldn't have settled for less even during the Wii's launch. We get pretty little graphic demos that actually didn't look bad in 2006. But then we're told "We're going SD/480i only" and that's basically ruined the graphics on the Wii fullstop for most people, especially people coming from the 360/PS3 where (even in sub-HD resolutions of 680i/p) the games look better/clearer because of the HD signal.

Like... SD has this "fog" effect and is brighter than HD and it makes the games look washed out and the like. So I can see where this dude is coming from. And "Dolphin" may solve this issue on PC, but that's besides the point: Not everyone has a computer capable of running Dolphin smoothly and they shouldn't need to run Dolphin just to have clearer graphics.

LOL at anyone complaining about graphics not owning a PC capable of running Dolphin. Said person would be a mere poseur.

 

[TheShampion]

I don't really buy the whole "video games are a visual medium!" routine. This is coming from a person that will play graphically bare bone rogue likes and text adventures, but those are as much games (or arguably more-so) than the average AAA roller-coaster ride. That being said, I will sympathize with people who play games for good visuals, as I am a sucker for good soundtracks in games.

Also Demon Souls is just as much a JRPG as anything else, it just comes from the darker, harder JRPG lineage like King's Field, the Japanese Wizardry series, Brandish, and others.

 

[Bisnic]

Nazi Germany got people to travel the world.

whalleywhat
Banned
(Today, 08:38 AM)
Quote

Well that was quick.

 

[Trancetronic]

I like the game for what it is. What lacks in graphics makes up in depth and features. The music is beautiful, has plenty of content and it's just the must fun JRPG I've played in years. It beats FFXIII, Star Ocean and Tales of Vesperia by miles. This and Eternal Sonata are really the only console JRPGS I've really had a blast with.

 

[Haunted]

It's A Wonderful Life (Blu-Ray) > It's A Wonderful Life (VHS).

Hey now. Wii games are more like a 700MB .avi DVD rips in that comparison.

 

[Rebel Leader]

Shall we engage the enemy? (I had to...)

If you have been playing games since the NES.... You shouldn't care about how a game looks.

Also, Nintendo games are always limited.... or are they?



limitations inspire creativity

 

[BGBW]

There was this fine technology called PCs which existed, where you could play at 720p back in the 90s

Thought someone would bring that up, but I just assumed that the people who make these complaints didn't play much on PCs. I mean they are the kind of people who use phrases like "comfy couch gaming" and PC gaming is dead".

 

[Meccanical]

I like the game for what it is. What lacks in graphics makes up in depth and features. The music is beautiful, has plenty of content and it's just the must fun JRPG I've played in years. It beats FFXIII, Star Ocean and Tales of Vesperia by miles. This and Eternal Sonata are really the only console JRPGS I've really had a blast with.

Eternal Sonata?

Really?

 

[Rebel Leader]

Eternal Sonata?

Really?

What does that mean?

 

[impact]

What does that mean?

It's literally shite

 

[M°°nblade]

Offtopic? I'm arguing against your choice of "JRPG" done right.

And the physics in the Souls games is the worst thing about them anyway. They are pretty bad so yeah, not a good example.

Seems to me you just want to name-drop those games because you really like them. Hey, I like them too.

I couldn't care less about your arguments to exclude Demon's souls as an example.

It's the best Japanese action RPG I've played in the last 10 years and the physics are a huge part of the reason why. The deep, raw, physical combat system which forces players to reconsider their choice of using a horizontal slash with a claymore in a tiny dungeon room, hitting every wall around him is brilliant and the perfect example why people shouldn't argue against the importance of physics, whether their definition of an JRPG is determined by the ability to entertain the DQ/FF crowd or not.
Because if it can matter in a game like Demon's souls, it would have mattered in an entirely hypothetical action RPG with anime animu characters and cutscenes and all that shit that would do that.

I agree! By much the same token, Battleship > It's A Wonderful Life.

It's not even in *colour*, and the effects are shite.

So tell me, how many pre-50's movies did you watch last year?

 

[Criminal Upper]

If Square Enix hadn't spent the majority of their time trying to produce hi-fidelity graphics, ridiculous cutscenes, effects, etc, they might have had more time to focus on good characters, decent story, and much better gameplay.

Monolith, unhindered by such constraints, was able to make the best overall game possible.

You could make a paralell article to this one, with just as much validity, that Xenoblade is as good as it is, BECAUSE it's on the Wii.

 

[KageMaru]

Sure the game is PS2 era ugly.

But why does he complain this much? They're releasing a new HD console this year, which is basically what he is asking for. Would have i prefer Monolith Soft to wait for 2012 and Wii U before releasing Xenoblade for better resolution, AA and textures? Hell yeah. But it didnt happen, so we gotta wait for their next RPG which will probably blow people's mind if the zones are as amazing as Xenoblade ones.

Unless I'm mistaken, the fact that another Nintendo console will be underpowered next gen is part of the reason he's complaining. Nintendo entering current gen+ specs will mean less when MS' and Sony's next systems launch, at least when talking purely graphics.

Standards will change just like they did with the introduction of this current generation. If it looked like the Wii-U was going to be up to the expected next gen standards, I doubt he would be feeling the way he does right now towards Nintendo.

Edit:

If Square Enix hadn't spent the majority of their time trying to produce hi-fidelity graphics, ridiculous cutscenes, effects, etc, they might have had more time to focus on good characters, decent story, and much better gameplay.

Monolith, unhindered by such constraints, was able to make the best overall game possible.

You could make a paralell article to this one, with just as much validity, that Xenoblade is as good as it is, BECAUSE it's on the Wii.

How does the engineering of a game effect the writers or gameplay designers?

Unless I'm not understanding you correctly here.

 

[PK Gaming]

That is the saddest thing i've ever read... not going to let it get to me but sheesh.

Edit: Oh, this thread has 18 pages. Haha, I guess my Gaf brothers and sisters have it covered. I <3 you Xenoblade.

 

[Jarmel]

Did you also snag the high res texture pack and 360/PS3 button icons?

I snagged the pack and left the button icons. Got sick of looking at the low rez UI.

Holy fuck Dolphin makes this game look exponentially better. My only complaint is some of the low rez textures and it's not really a strong complaint at that.

I wish I could run the game at x4 though, I'm having a bit of a trouble with x3 as it is.

 

[BGBW]

I'm also sad at what Nintendo has turned into. I grew up with the NES and SNES, and I remember when Nintendo was a pioneer not just in gaming, but in gaming hardware.

Oh dear. It's one of these people who still lives in the world of gumdrops and rainbows and thought that he was a technical wiz because he spouted phrases like "16 bit graphics" in the playground. You really need to take those rose tinted glasses off. I could sell you a pair of my yuri goggles to replace them with.

gaming_journalist_is_told_he_needs_to_do_research.jpg

Oh... wait NFL player. Never mind. That makes you immune to criticism or something.

This guy is a moron, "LOL games journalism" strikes again.

Apparently he's one of those NFL player people so we have to excuse him despite the article being posted on a game site. Sorry.

 

[Woffls]

Article makes me want to punch several kittens. When do we think he will find out that Nintendo have a new system on the way that has lots of high definitions. I for one am excited for all these high definitions and the heightening of definition that they will bring to the video games.

 

[Criminal Upper]

Article makes me want to punch several kittens. When do we think he will find out that Nintendo have a new system on the way that has lots of high definitions. I for one am excited for all these high definitions and the heightening of definition that they will bring to the video games.

heh.

Except when the PS4 and Xbox 720 come out, and the Wii U tech will again be "shackles that Nintendo has slapped on Mario/Link etc, that stop them from getting whatever it is that they deserve."

 

[AlphaDump]

I don't understand the "graphics whore" defense. It isn't that graphics matter, but there are obvious constraints in the hardware, and in effect, limit the vision the developers are trying to convey. If a developer wants to make a game look outdated, let that be their decision, but not a technical constraint.

Personally, I want a company that represents my hobbies by push the envelope as much as possible. I'll invest in their hardware, if they invest in maximizing my experience.

 

[Jarmel]

heh.

Except when the PS4 and Xbox 720 come out, and the Wii U tech will again be "shackles that Nintendo has slapped on Mario/Link etc, that stop them from getting whatever it is that they deserve."

I'm more concerned with resolution. Upscaling fucks anything up.