Support NeoGAF

[WanderingWind]

This game isn't an entirely new game though. Its more like an extended version of WKC1. If you deleted your save it would be no different than getting to world 4 in new Super Mario Bros, deleting your save file, and then expecting to start off at world 4 again later. You couldn't. You would need to start over. Hence for WKC part 2 you would need to start over and play the first levels again (i.e. the first part of the story).



It's not a trilogy. The story will end with part 2.

So your argument is that the game we've already paid for was incomplete, but they're happy to sell us the second half at full price?

 

[Baron Aloha]

Making a fun game that works now is bad. ok...

Its got 2 in the title and will be full price. The hell it isn't a new game.

So if Nintendo releases "New Super Mario Bros Plus"...which is just the original game with 8 new worlds tacked onto the end they should let people skip all of the worlds from the first game?

 

[OgTheClever]

I kind of like this move. They definitely won't sell more copies this way but usually the bonuses for having a cleared save file are some stupid costume or something. Here, it's a full on sequel. That takes some balls.

It's not being able to continue with the same character that's the problem, in fact I think most people here would agree that it's a very good feature. It's the fact that anybody who's completed the first game but no longer has access to that save file, for whatever reason, is being forced to play through the original again.

 

[duckroll]

This game isn't an entirely new game though. Its more like an extended version of WKC1. If you deleted your save it would be no different than getting to world 4 in new Super Mario Bros, deleting your save file, and then expecting to start off at world 4 again later.

But it is an entirely new game. None of the save files from WKC1 will work on WKC2. The only thing it will recognize is a clear save from WKC2, which it imports and does modifications to, before allowing you to play WKC2 with that. If you have leveled above level 35, your levels are automatically reduced before you can start WKC2. The two games are clearly separated, this is clearly marketed as a sequel, and in fact they only JUST revealed that there is a "remade" version of WKC1 in the game.

If WKC2 is just an extended version of WKC1, we should have known from the start. They're not calling it that, and they're not marketing it as that, and they clearly do not want players to think that. They say it is a sequel. They say it is "two games in one". Etc. Please, don't make up bullshit to attempt to defend this shit.

 

[Vamphuntr]

What a terrible business decision :lol . It would be like requiring a clear save of Xenosaga 2 to be able to play Xenosaga III. Who the hell would want to replay Xeno II?

From what I gather, the 2 games are like in 1, so unless you load a save you can't skip the original WKC part.

EDIT : According to duckroll's post above, maybe not... :lol

 

[ViolentP]

It could be an experiment to see if they can sell DLC that lets you skip over part 1.

That would be some shady shit right there.

 

[Die Squirrel Die]

The benefit is that they don't have split up the games or create a tutorial. If they allowed you to start at WKC2 without playing the first then they'd have 2 options:

Option 1) You lose pretty much all progress and things revert to level 1 and you start all over again. They also have to put a tutorial and all those things for those that started out with 2.

Option 2) Make up a level for the character to start at and let people pick the skills or whatever it is you do in this game. Again, they have to have a tutorial, and people would be picking skills and things that they have no idea about since they didn't play the first game at all.

In both of these scenarios they have to make some sort of tutorial and/or make the game much easier at the beginning to get new players up to speed, and the first scenario loses all the progression in the game. They just wanted people to be able to really add onto their started character, almost like an MMO or something.

Try and think of it like this: How big of a pain in the ass would it have been for Blizzard to make Act 5: Lord of Destruction playable straight away by itself. It's weird, people would gain much the story from just starting there, they'd have to retailor it for new players, and to top it off they've basically created a shortcut to whatever level you are supposed to be in that act. Remember, WKC has that online questing mode, so if you started at WKC2 you'd basically gain free however many levels without having to do anything. Not really fair to those that already went through that shit.

Oh christ, really? Have you actually played WKC? Nothing you have put forth suggests you have. You seem to be envisioning some sort of FFXIII scenario, where key features of the battle system are withheld until certain narrative points are reached. Also the game was as easy as all hell. The start of WKC2 could be twice as difficult as the end of WKC1 and it'd still be a gentle introduction. The 'OMG tutorials' scenario you put forth is complete bullshit in light of how the game actually is.

As for the online. It's entirely coop, so frankly any cunt who would have a problem with somebody getting 'free' levels because they jumped straight into the sequel would be exposing their own petty mindedness rather than a fatal flaw with the system. I'm sure most WKC1 would welcome an influx of new players without the need to power level them, rather than going 'I'll only play with people who honourably grinded their way to level 35, rather than those lazy cheaters'.

 

[JudgeN]

They just wanted people to be able to really add onto their started character, almost like an MMO or something.

Try and think of it like this: How big of a pain in the ass would it have been for Blizzard to make Act 5: Lord of Destruction playable straight away by itself. It's weird, people would gain much the story from just starting there, they'd have to retailor it for new players, and to top it off they've basically created a shortcut to whatever level you are supposed to be in that act. Remember, WKC has that online questing mode, so if you started at WKC2 you'd basically gain free however many levels without having to do anything. Not really fair to those that already went through that shit.

This right here is an interesting point. As someone who put decent amount of hours into grinding on the multiplayer I would pissed if people got a "Get my gear for free pass". They could put them in a bunch of NPC gear though, but if I remember correctly that gear doesn't get very strong.

 

[John Harker]

Forcing people to do anything is stupid. How long is the 1st game?
Either WKC2 is very short, or they just made a 40 hour game 80 hours which is way too intimidating for a lot of people.

I heard WKC1 was pretty bad, but I was semi interested in it. Thought to myself I would consider picking up the sequel if they fixed the issues with 1. A lot of people do this. But now I have to play 40 hours just go get to it, or 80 hours in total? Damn. It's taking me months to get through 11 chapters of FF13. No way I'd force myself to play a game I skipped just to lengthen the experience.

 

[anddo0]

Forcing newcomers to play the first game is kinda ridiculous. However, It's two titles for the price of one, not a bad deal. The game saves aren't locked, so newcomers could always download another users save.

 

[Skilletor]

So if Nintendo releases "New Super Mario Bros Plus"...which is just the original game with 8 new worlds tacked onto the end they should let people skip all of the worlds from the first game?

What if I don't give a shit about WKC 1? What if I want to play WKC 2 because it's been improved? What if I couldn't care less about the shit story of some Level 5 game?

Imagine being required to play the shitfest Dark Cloud 1 to enjoy the moderately better Dark Cloud 2.

Shit.

word of the day is shit.

 

[Leviathan1]

That's pretty fucked up. I didn't realise the first game sucked. I thought it was good. Making your fans play through the first game to get to the second has to be one of the worst ideas of the generation.

Surely most people who will play the sequel will be doing so because they played through and liked the original game?

The lack of logic here would make Spock cry.

 

[Baron Aloha]

But it is an entirely new game. None of the save files from WKC1 will work on WKC2. The only thing it will recognize is a clear save from WKC2, which it imports and does modifications to, before allowing you to play WKC2 with that. If you have leveled above level 35, your levels are automatically reduced before you can start WKC2. The two games are clearly separated, this is clearly marketed as a sequel, and in fact they only JUST revealed that there is a "remade" version of WKC1 in the game.

The levels are resetting levels to 35 and giving everyone a free rebirth because they rebalanced the classes and added new moves. This will allow people who transferred their data over to be able to purchase new skills and respec their character at the beginning of part 2.

If WKC2 is just an extended version of WKC1, we should have known from the start. They're not calling it that, and they're not marketing it as that, and they clearly do not want players to think that. They say it is a sequel. They say it is "two games in one". Etc. Please, don't make up bullshit to attempt to defend this shit.

I agree that they should be calling it what it is but that is a whole other topic. But you don't need to play through WKC1 to play WKC2 as the thread title implies.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

While this does suck for people that did not play WKC 1. It should not really be problem just d\l a save file.
Still you have the wonder why they are doing this maybe there some reason we don't yet or they just stupid.

Forcing people to do anything is stupid. How long is the 1st game?
Either WKC2 is very short, or they just made a 40 hour game 80 hours which is way too intimidating for a lot of people.

I heard WKC1 was pretty bad, but I was semi interested in it. Thought to myself I would consider picking up the sequel if they fixed the issues with 1. A lot of people do this. But now I have to play 40 hours just go get to it, or 80 hours in total? Damn. It's taking me months to get through 11 chapters of FF13. No way I'd force myself to play a game I skipped just to lengthen the experience.

WKC short as hell no way it's 40 hours , if you can play games i say about 25 max first time even less if you skip the movie .

 

[MechaX]

Option 1) You lose pretty much all progress and things revert to level 1 and you start all over again. They also have to put a tutorial and all those things for those that started out with 2.

Option 2) Make up a level for the character to start at and let people pick the skills or whatever it is you do in this game. Again, they have to have a tutorial, and people would be picking skills and things that they have no idea about since they didn't play the first game at all.

When considering that games like Baldur's Gate and the .hack games already deal with this without locking people out of the sequel, I'm not seeing exactly why Level 5 needs to do so. Those games start you off at arbitrary levels with the option of carrying over your past character. Sure, it wouldn't be advisable for story reasons, but when considering that we live in the youtube age, there are many other ways to experience a game's story outside of actually playing it. More so, some one could have been warded off by WKC because of poor word of mouth and decided to watch the story online, or even could have watched a friend play it. These are examples outside of some one just not having the save for whatever reason. Instead, Level 5 screws over this percentage that probably don't want to re-tread through the first game when for all we know, the sequel could be vastly superior in terms of story.

And as for the tutorial thing, I don't understand why having an optional tutorial (or even a title-screen tutorial separate from the game itself) is so difficult.

 

[Shalashaska161]

The dumb thing is that if the original game was optional, people would be really excited about getting 2 games for 1. What a stupid decision on Level 5's part.

 

[Rahxephon91]

So if Nintendo releases "New Super Mario Bros Plus"...which is just the original game with 8 new worlds tacked onto the end they should let people skip all of the worlds from the first game?

You do know this is called White Knight Chronicles 2 not plus. Your comparison is stupid.

 

[anddo0]

That's pretty fucked up. I didn't realise the first game sucked. I thought it was good. Making your fans play through the first game to get to the second has to be one of the worst ideas of the generation.

Surely most people who will play the sequel will be doing so because they played through and liked the original game?

The lack of logic here would make Spock cry.

The first game wasn't "that" bad. I'm curious just how many people calling WKC1 a bad game actually played through it.

 

[Jex]

.....:lol

 

[kodt]

This is actually pretty cool, especially since they are including it on the disc.

I really feel the same away about the MGS games.

 

[duckroll]

Forcing newcomers to play the first game is kinda ridiculous. However, It's two titles for the price of one, not a bad deal. The game saves aren't locked, so newcomers could always download another users save.

Yeah, I don't think anyone is arguing against the value of the content, but the actual decision is flat out retarded. I think there might be problems with downloading another clear save though. WKC, from what I understand, has similar things to Mass Effect where there is an avatar you create, customize, and name. This avatar carries over to WKC2. I really don't understand how hard it is to just allow a player to create a new character and start from WKC2, with basic equipment and the lowest level possible. Other games have done this, it's not hard. This is just stupid really.

 

[Skilletor]

While this does suck for people that did not play WKC 1. It should not really be problem just d\l a save file.
Still you have the wonder why they are doing this maybe there some reason we don't yet or they just stupid.

I shouldn't have to do this. I won't give money to a developer that forces me to work around their stupidity. I was interested in WKC 2 because I thought it would be better than what I've played/seen of the first. Now, I won't buy it unless it's used and cheap.

 

[Vinci]

The dumb thing is that if the original game was optional, people would be really excited about getting 2 games for 1. What a stupid decision on Level 5's part.

Hell yeah, that would be a deal. It's the unnecessary coercion applied that is unappreciated.

 

[PflargBlarg]

WHY IS THERE DISCUSSION ON THIS.

Even people arguing that this is not a 'bad' thing have admitted to the following

1) There is no positive to this system
2) There is at least some negative

What else is there to talk about here. If there is no positive, but some negative, I think it's pretty fucking easy to say that overall it is a dumb thing to do. That's all there is to it.

 

[duckroll]

I agree that they should be calling it what it is but that is a whole other topic. But you don't need to play through WKC1 to play WKC2 as the thread title implies.

What? How is it not true? You need to play through WKC1 to play WKC2. You either play through WKC1 vanilla, or you play through the WKC1 included in this package. You cannot start WKC2 without a clear save.

 

[Baron Aloha]

What? How is it not true? You need to play through WKC1 to play WKC2. You either play through WKC1 vanilla, or you play through the WKC1 included in this package. You cannot start WKC2 without a clear save.

OK, my apologies but when I read the thread title was thinking you meant the original release of WKC1 only... as in if you did not play it you cannot play the 2nd at all.

The dumb thing is that if the original game was optional, people would be really excited about getting 2 games for 1. What a stupid decision on Level 5's part.

I agree...but I think the games are really too intertwined to split out from each other. I think Level 5 made the right decision here. Truth is they would be damned if they do or damned if they don't.

Really what options did they have?

1. Make WKC2 a completely separate game...nothing transfers over from WKC1. This would piss off the people who spent hours grinding WKC1.

2. Make WKC2 a completely separate game...everything transfers over but since its a new game and games always start off easy the people who played through the original aren't challenged at all. Plus they wouldn't be able to get better gear (since everything would be low level).

3. Make WKC2 more like an add-on/expansion pack for WKC1...everything transfers over. People who played through WKC can pick up right where they left off and have some semblance of a challenge or whatever and at the same time get gear that is better than the end game gear of WKC1. People who didn't play WKC1 can now play through it, with all of the improvements of WKC2 in tow. Eventually they can get to part 2 of the story and play through that as well.

 

[Kinitari]

Sorry wait a second, there is an enhanced version of WKC in the to be released WKC2, and you cannot play that unless you've played the vanilla WKC already released? As in, if I buy WKC2 without a WKC save, I would end up playing a non-enhanced version of WKC? Am I understanding that wrong? You can only play the better version of the first game if you are replaying it?

 

[Sword Familiar]

It's not a THEORY. What the fuck is wrong with you? Are you implying that there is no way that anyone could have finished WKC, and not kept the save for whatever reason?

No, I'm not. I'm implying that MOST people PROBABLY keep their save files. Ok? Most people. Not all, but most. Enough for it not generating any significant losses in sales because of this particular problem.

Any producer who decides it is a good idea to implement a system in anything with no positive impact, but will have negative impact no matter how minor, is a fucking retard who should look for work elsewhere. Do you disagree?

Do I think forcing the player to use these save files in order to play the second game is a good idea? No, I don't. It's a terrible idea. Especially if you want to jump straight into 2 without playing 1, and especially if you don't tell your buyers that this is the case.

Do I think broken HDDs and lost save files per se will affect sales in the long run? Not significantly.

That is my answer.

Still, I have faith that they will address the problem before they release the game.

 

[Cmagus]

meh if they are willing to give you the first game for free with it then I don't see the issue if you've beaten it then go on if not then you'll get both games i don't see the issue here.

 

[Vamphuntr]

Sorry wait a second, there is an enhanced version of WKC in the to be released WKC2, and you cannot play that unless you've played the vanilla WKC already released? As in, if I buy WKC2 without a WKC save, I would end up playing a non-enhanced version of WKC? Am I understanding that wrong? You can only play the better version of the first game if you are replaying it?

No duckroll posted two posts above that you can play WKC 2 using a WKC 1 vanilla save.

 

[RoryDropkick]

Geez, this seems really out of whack.. I think one of the only other times I've seen this is when Square re-released FF 1 and 2 on Famicom, you had to play through FF1 first before you unlocked 2..

 

[Gravijah]

Sorry wait a second, there is an enhanced version of WKC in the to be released WKC2, and you cannot play that unless you've played the vanilla WKC already released? As in, if I buy WKC2 without a WKC save, I would end up playing a non-enhanced version of WKC? Am I understanding that wrong? You can only play the better version of the first game if you are replaying it?

Pretty sure you are reading wrong, anytime you play WKC1 on WKC2 you are playing the "enhanced" version.

 

[thefoxtrot]

por que?

 

[thefoxtrot]

 

[John Harker]

you're forgetting the fact that most statistics point to somewhere around 10% of people who purchase a game actually finish it...

edit:

woa, two dancing Turks on top of each other are blowing my mind

 

[Kinitari]

Pretty sure you are reading wrong, anytime you play WKC1 on WKC2 you are playing the "enhanced" version.

Yeah I just reread it, when he said "Sequel" in my head I read it as "enhanced original"

I have a lot less beef with this decision now.

 

[Vinci]

you're forgetting the fact that most statistics point to somewhere around 10% of most people who purchase a game actually finish it...

Not Level 5 games. Hell no. These bastards are more hardcore than Treasure.

 

[Raging Spaniard]

Im ... actually ok with this? I dont think its a good idea for the overall consumer, but I still havent played WKC1 so yeah, sounds good for me.

 

[spats]

Hard to believe they would do something this silly.

 

[Sword Familiar]

you're forgetting the fact that most statistics point to somewhere around 10% of most people who purchase a game actually finish it...

This is a direct sequel we're talking about though. How many actually bought the first game?

 

[MechaX]

meh if they are willing to give you the first game for free with it then I don't see the issue if you've beaten it then go on if not then you'll get both games i don't see the issue here.

*Rents/Buys & later sells WKC1 and gets about halfway through it (about 10-15 hours in)*
"Ugh. This game is pretty lacking, but there is a lot of potential here. If only there was a sequel to the game that would correct some of the stuff. Then i would be onboard!"
*WKC2 comes out*
"Okay, it looks like they've improved on the-"
*You had to finish WKC1. So you either track down the vanilla copy and finish that or you replay the entirety of WKC1 despite not really wanting to and even despite the new gameplay enhancements*

That's an issue.

 

[ViolentP]

I've actually had WKC sitting in my house for a few weeks. I'm gonna start it tonight and I'll report in the morning.

 

[Zoe]

So WKC2 is DLC without the DL?

It's not a good thing for people who want to jump into the game, but I can understand how they backed themselves into this corner.

 

[Vinci]

This is a direct sequel we're talking about though. How many actually bought the first game?

How does that have any bearing on the validity of this decision?

 

[duckroll]

This is a direct sequel we're talking about though. How many actually bought the first game?

Why do you like repeating the same thing over and over, including your questions, when it has already been answered. Obviously you lack reading comprehension, and only like to hit POST first.

 

[Raging Spaniard]

Does the first WKC allow for downloaded save files or are they locked? If not you could easily download a save state into a usb drive and then you dont have to worry about it.

Not that it would excuse shitty decision making from the devs, but eh.

 

[Zoe]

How does that have any bearing on the validity of this decision?

My guess was they couldn't come up with a good excuse for resetting character stats to zero.

Edit: Oh... didn't see the thing about resetting to level 35...

 

[Sword Familiar]

Why do you like repeating the same thing over and over, including your questions, when it has already been answered. Obviously you lack reading comprehension, and only like to hit POST first.

Aww, ducky getting mad at me. Again. Sorry, I didn't see those numbers. Worldwide?

Over 300k in Japan.

But it WAS released worldwide, wasn't it?

 

[Lance Bone Path]

The formula for bundling a sequel tacked to an older game with slightly reworked mechanics where old save games could be directly imported worked out okay with monster hunter portable 2nd g/freedom unite.

 

[panda21]

this is the most frustrating thread i have read on here