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[davepoobond]

Yeah but I didn't have to have a save from .hack Part 1 to play .hack part 2. This beyond stupid, I don't see how anyone could think this is ok or defend it. This self indulgent and stupid. The point of a sequel is to get even more people to buy your game, not turn off people. Level 5 continues to be the worst "high profile" jrpg developer.

this is interesting to me because ive never played the first one. I wouldnt mind buying a sequel if it had the first whole game on it with updated stuff on it. Its sort of like Persona 4: FES, as far as value goes. You may have played the first Persona 4, but they updated it and added a "sequel" of sorts on the same game disc. So, its not that terrible

Just because you arent able to play the sequel without having a save from the first, doesnt automatically make it a terrible idea across the board. I might actually wait and buy WKC2 instead of bothering with the first at all. If i cared enough.

 

[Vinci]

I don't want to start anything here, and -believe me- I agree with you in regards to "forcing", but as we have said countless times: vote with your wallet.

I believe duckroll clearly outlined how likely that is to happen.

 

[Sword Familiar]

It's not a bad example. I was listing various reasons why someone would NOT have the clear save of a game he has beaten. Keep in mind that not everyone keeps save files for everything, and not everyone backs up data before changing a HDD for the PS3. I don't see how it's a bad example when it actually happens in reality. I'm not saying there is even a huge amount of people who would be in this situation. I wouldn't know how many who played the original and beat it, still have their saves. You don't either.

Wow, god no. Why would I want to keep my save files? Because I have space to spare, that's why. It's simple deduction. I'm sorry I can't prove the numbers to you, I'm not supposed to be talking about statistics.

All I'm saying is that, in the eyes of the producers, this is probably not a problem.

 

[Rahxephon91]

*edit* The terribleness *is* terrible though, they should let you start from part 2 regardless of save.

And terrible for people who didn't complete the first game because they didn't like it but would be interested in a sequel.

Just because you arent able to play the sequel without having a save from the first, doesnt automatically make it a terrible idea across the board. I might actually wait and buy WKC2 instead of bothering with the first at all. If i cared enough.

Your saying that I can't play a game that I bought without wasting time playing another game that I don't want to play for whatever reason isn't a terrible idea. Huh?

Taking away options in gaming is always bad. I don't see how anyone can think otherwise. Putting limitations on something just because is beyond retarded.

 

[Vandiger]

Never got the chance to play the first game since I have such a large RPG backlog, but now I can just get the sequel alone. Thank you Level 5 . How is this a bad thing unless WKC2 is very short on content.

 

[Sword Familiar]

Never got the chance to play the first game since I have such a large RPG backlog, but now I can just get the sequel alone. Thank you Level 5 . How is this a bad thing unless WKC2 is very short on content.

I guess if you didn't play the first game, like me, it won't be a problem, but it's still a pretty big problem if you want to skip to the second game at once, which you won't be able to (probably).

 

[duckroll]

All I'm saying is that, in the eyes of the producers, this is probably not a problem.

But it is. Building a system into the game which fucks over any portion of your fans for zero benefit is a terrible idea. It's bad for business, and it has no positive impact whatsoever.

Here's a question: Why can't the game offer the original game in the package, AND have options to start a new game from either WKC1 or WKC2, or to import a clear save? Can you think of a single possible benefit to this? Seriously? What are they gaining from locking anyone out from playing WKC2?

 

[Vinci]

All I'm saying is that, in the eyes of the producers, this is probably not a problem.

Then they should stop using their eyes to simply admire their cocks and pay attention to the fucking world around them.

 

[Nolan.]

I really don't mind this actually.

 

[duckroll]

Then they should stop using their eyes to simply admire their cocks and pay attention to the fucking world around them.

It's pretty hard, they're only level 5. Maybe when they get to level 10, they'll be able to have better visibility.

 

[OgTheClever]

This might not suit everyone, but for me it actually seems perfect. I've been meaning to buy WKC for a while but there have been too many other games taking priority over it (still got a few to get through actually). As long as the European release date isn't in like two years time I'd be quite happy to buy this.

 

[Sage00]

But it is. Building a system into the game which fucks over any portion of your fans for zero benefit is a terrible idea. It's bad for business, and it has no positive impact whatsoever.

Here's a question: Why can't the game offer the original game in the package, AND have options to start a new game from either WKC1 or WKC2, or to import a clear save? Can you think of a single possible benefit to this? Seriously? What are they gaining from locking anyone out from playing WKC2?

Maybe WKC2 doesn't really have any defined 'start' (no long opening cutscenes or introduction etc) which full sequels still require, and instead literally picks up as if you're just getting to a new part of the first game (think more like a massive expansion pack than a new game). That would be a little jarring to anyone deciding to play starting from WKC2.

Though of course that's no excuse, they game shouldn't have been designed that way if it is. Providing an explanation rather than a justification here.

 

[MechaX]

Can you think of a single possible benefit to this? Seriously? What are they gaining from locking anyone out from playing WKC2?

I'm curious to see if any one can answer this as well.

 

[Wallach]

I don't buy it. They don't have the balls.

 

[Victrix]

I really don't mind this actually.

I adore the fact that no matter how horrible an idea is for gaming, be it shitty overpriced dlc, one time use codes, in game advertising, or ridiculously priced peripherals, there's always, ALWAYS someone who will go 'I don't see how that's bad'.

 

[adamsapple]

This is what Sony meant when they said they need to push the boundaries a few days back.

 

[Man]

Well, I'm not too familiar with WKC but unless the online component of this game is separate from the SP (as in: totally different character builds and lvl progress) then I don't see it as a problem. They're obviously aiming for MMO progress. And these bastards are throwing in a free game while they're at it.

 

[Baron Aloha]

This sounds like they are requiring people to play through the first part of the story before they can move on to the second part...not that they can't play the second part altogether as the thread title implies. But if you have a clear file from the first game you can skip right to the second part. To be honest, this sounds perfectly fine with me.

What if a book was released and its sequel included the text from the first book? Why would you want to skip the first part?

Plus I wouldn't be surprised if the weapons and whatnot you get in the second part are higher level because as you progress through the story you unlock new areas with better gear in the shops...so why should new players get to skip the first half of the game and get the good gear right when they start?

I see nothing wrong with this at all.

Edit: I've spent over 500 hours with WKC1 by the way.

Are WKC saves locked?

Nope.

 

[Fuzz Rez]

 

[Vinci]

I adore the fact that no matter how horrible an idea is for gaming, be it shitty overpriced dlc, one time use codes, in game advertising, or ridiculously priced peripherals, there's always, ALWAYS someone who will go 'I don't see how that's bad'.

Hell, most times people will defend the most heinous, anti-consumer shit and it's like, "Unless you're one of the board of directors, this is NOT a good thing."

 

[Wario64]

I wonder if this means the Platinum trophy for WKC2 will take over 1400+ hours to achieve

 

[faridmon]

I don't see what is the problem. Sure it is a bit harsh, but its not like WNK is a long game and more importantly, the two games are way too connected to each other for the second game to be played without the 1st.

 

[Die Squirrel Die]

Maybe WKC2 doesn't really have any defined 'start' (no long opening cutscenes or introduction etc) which full sequels still require, and instead literally picks up as if you're just getting to a new part of the first game (think more like a massive expansion pack than a new game). That would be a little jarring to anyone deciding to play starting from WKC2.

Though of course that's no excuse, they game shouldn't have been designed that way if it is. Providing an explanation rather than a justification here.

Despite what people have said to the contrary, WKC1 has a definite ending, some semblance of closure. It's just that it also paves the way for more stuff to develop later. It's not like it stops in the middle of a dungeon and that's it.

 

[panda21]

:lol

theres nothing wrong with this at all, apart from the small fact that there is no good reason for them to force you to do anything, and it will be a massive pain in the ass for people who lost their save file, whilst people coming afresh gain nothing other than being prevented from skipping the original.

its a terrible terrible idea if its true.

 

[NeoUltima]

I think we are overlooking what really matters here, 2 games for the price of 1!

 

[slaughterking]

That's pretty ridiculous and...random. I wanna see the person that came up with this idea and then I wanna see the rest of Level 5 agreeing to this and actually thinking this would be a reasonable thing. :lol

 

[Fuu]

What a few don't seem to grasp is:

-Having an enhanced version of the first game in the sequel = good

-Forcing everyone to have a clear save of the first game in order to play the sequel = bad

It doesn't matter the reasons why someone would want to skip directly to the sequel, the option has to be there. Not having this option doesn't benefit anyone at all.

What if a book was released and its sequel included the text from the first book? Why would you want to skip the first part?

Anyone that already read the first book would be able to skip those pages and start from the sequel though.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

I guess they are trying to establish it as "one big game" and not a trilogy of games.

Have they announced the intention to make a trilogy? Because hearing about THIS move just makes me want to buy White Knight Chronicles 3 with further improved versions of both previous games.

 

[demosthenes]

I don't understand why they don't include some type of 'default' save file of WKC on it for those that didn't play WKC1. They're giving WKC1 for free, so why does it really matter if people play it?

 

[Android18a]

Chances are it follows directly on. Makes sense you'd play the first one through... first.

The only problem with this, is that the first one just isn't that good. I admit I only rented it for just over a week, but I found it to be perhaps Level 5's least interesting title in years. Maybe had it been out a couple of years earlier...

 

[ViolentP]

The more I think about it the more it seems like there is no good reason to do so. You would need to have some serious confidence in your story to feel everyone should experience it from the very beginning.

 

[Baron Aloha]

Anyone that already read the first book would be able to skip those pages and start from the sequel though.

Right...and Level 5 is letting people do just that. The "proof" that they finished the first "book" is the cleared save file. I don't think this is too unreasonable. People should be backing up their saves. Who deletes saves nowadays anyway? The days of having memory cards with 15 blocks are over. I have a 2GB USB stick that I paid like $10 or something for that sits permanently in my PS3. I back up my saves like once a week. With over 50 PS3 games I still have a ton of room left on it.

 

[Sword Familiar]

But it is. Building a system into the game which fucks over any portion of your fans for zero benefit is a terrible idea. It's bad for business, and it has no positive impact whatsoever.

It has no positive impact, but the negative impact probably isn't big enough for "it"= (HDD/deleted save files, nothing else) being a problem related to sales in any bigger numbers. If they had to take broken HDDs into consideration every time they made a game, they should reconsider mandatory installs as well! (Hyperbole). And again, before anyone jumps the guns again, I want to make it absolutely clear that my deductions are only related to the HDD/deleted save files theory. Nothing else.

Here's a question: Why can't the game offer the original game in the package, AND have options to start a new game from either WKC1 or WKC2, or to import a clear save? Can you think of a single possible benefit to this? Seriously? What are they gaining from locking anyone out from playing WKC2?

Again, I'm not disputing this. I only had some deductions on your HDD/deleted save file theory.

If I had a theory about that particular aspect, though, I'd say they want players to ditch the online version of the original in benefit of the new one so that they can keep it all on one server. Still, not a good idea in general, no.

 

[charlequin]

Right...and Level 5 is letting people do just that. The "proof" that they finished the first "book" is the cleared save file. I don't think this is too unreasonable.

It's idiotic. Why do I have to prove shit to play a game that I just bought at the store and took home to play

I mean what the heck is wrong with you

It has no positive impact, but the negative impact probably isn't big enough for "it"= (HDD/deleted save files, nothing else) being a problem

Anything with literally zero positive impact and non-zero negative impact, which had to be added on purpose, is something only a stupid person who is stupid would do, and the only correct response is to say HEY YOU WHY ARE YOU SO STUPID

 

[Baron Aloha]

It's idiotic. Why do I have to prove shit to play a game that I just bought at the store and took home to play

I mean what the heck is wrong with you

You don't have to prove anything to play the game. You can play the game perfectly well thank you very much...you just need to start at the beginning and you can't skip to where part 2 of the story starts off.

 

[OgTheClever]

I wonder if this means the Platinum trophy for WKC2 will take over 1400+ hours to achieve

Actually, that bring up another thing: are the WKC1 trophies also included in WKC2? (Unfortunately I'm sad enough that this sort of thing matters to me)

 

[RDreamer]

But it is. Building a system into the game which fucks over any portion of your fans for zero benefit is a terrible idea. It's bad for business, and it has no positive impact whatsoever.

Here's a question: Why can't the game offer the original game in the package, AND have options to start a new game from either WKC1 or WKC2, or to import a clear save? Can you think of a single possible benefit to this? Seriously? What are they gaining from locking anyone out from playing WKC2?

The benefit is that they don't have split up the games or create a tutorial. If they allowed you to start at WKC2 without playing the first then they'd have 2 options:

Option 1) You lose pretty much all progress and things revert to level 1 and you start all over again. They also have to put a tutorial and all those things for those that started out with 2.

Option 2) Make up a level for the character to start at and let people pick the skills or whatever it is you do in this game. Again, they have to have a tutorial, and people would be picking skills and things that they have no idea about since they didn't play the first game at all.

In both of these scenarios they have to make some sort of tutorial and/or make the game much easier at the beginning to get new players up to speed, and the first scenario loses all the progression in the game. They just wanted people to be able to really add onto their started character, almost like an MMO or something.

Try and think of it like this: How big of a pain in the ass would it have been for Blizzard to make Act 5: Lord of Destruction playable straight away by itself. It's weird, people would gain much the story from just starting there, they'd have to retailor it for new players, and to top it off they've basically created a shortcut to whatever level you are supposed to be in that act. Remember, WKC has that online questing mode, so if you started at WKC2 you'd basically gain free however many levels without having to do anything. Not really fair to those that already went through that shit.

 

[duckroll]

It has no positive impact, but the negative impact probably isn't big enough for "it"= (HDD/deleted save files, nothing else) being a problem related to sales in any bigger numbers. If they had to take broken HDDs into consideration every time they made a game, they should reconsider mandatory installs as well! (Hyperbole). And again, before anyone jumps the guns again, I want to make it absolutely clear that my deductions are only related to the HDD/deleted save files theory. Nothing else.



Again, I'm not disputing this. I only had some deductions on your HDD/deleted save file theory.

If I had a theory about that particular aspect, though, I'd say they want players to ditch the online version of the original in benefit of the new one so that they can keep it all on one server. Still, not a good idea in general, no.

It's not a THEORY. What the fuck is wrong with you? Are you implying that there is no way that anyone could have finished WKC, and not kept the save for whatever reason? If there is even a SINGLE person affected by this, it is a negative impact. As you said, there is no positive impact.

Any producer who decides it is a good idea to implement a system in anything with no positive impact, but will have negative impact no matter how minor, is a fucking retard who should look for work elsewhere. Do you disagree?

 

[charlequin]

You don't have to prove anything to play the game. You can play the game perfectly well thank you very much...you just need to start at the beginning

WKC1 is not the beginning of WKC2, the game I have (in this example) bought and paid for.

Who the fuck is some guy at L5 to tell me that I have to replay a game I've already beaten (again, hypothetically) just because I don't have my save handy for any reason whatsoever?

 

[No_Style]

The Princess is in another castle.
The Princess is in another castle.
The Princess is in yet another castle.

Spoiler

OMG you are 10,000 years old.

WKC1 in a nutshell.

So it's a mix of Lost Odyssey and Mario?

 

[comedy bomb]

So if this is a planned trilogy, wouldn't it make sense to wait for the inevitable third entry that comes with enhanced versions of the first two games?

 

[OgTheClever]

The benefit is that they don't have split up the games or create a tutorial.

But the fact that the first game and its tutorial is included kind of invalidates this point.

 

[K' Dash]

ME is a good game. ME2 is pretty terrible.

fixed.

 

[Torhthelm Tídwald]

I remember when new games would give you cheat codes so you could skip to the middle if you want.

 

[Baron Aloha]

It's not a THEORY. What the fuck is wrong with you? Are you implying that there is no way that anyone could have finished WKC, and not kept the save for whatever reason? If there is even a SINGLE person affected by this, it is a negative impact. As you said, there is no positive impact.

Any producer who decides it is a good idea to implement a system in anything with no positive impact, but will have negative impact no matter how minor, is a fucking retard who should look for work elsewhere. Do you disagree?

This game isn't an entirely new game though. Its more like an extended version of WKC1. If you deleted your save it would be no different than getting to world 4 in new Super Mario Bros, deleting your save file, and then expecting to start off at world 4 again later. You couldn't. You would need to start over. Hence for WKC part 2 you would need to start over and play the first levels again (i.e. the first part of the story).

So if this is a planned trilogy, wouldn't it make sense to wait for the inevitable third entry that comes with enhanced versions of the first two games?

It's not a trilogy. The story will end with part 2.

 

[Jarlaxle]

I kind of like this move. They definitely won't sell more copies this way but usually the bonuses for having a cleared save file are some stupid costume or something. Here, it's a full on sequel. That takes some balls.

 

[Rahxephon91]

fixed.

Making a fun game that works now is bad. ok...

This game isn't an entirely new game though. Its more like an extended version of WKC1. If you deleted your save it would be no different than getting to world 4 in new Super Mario Bros, deleting your save file, and then expecting to start off at world 4 again later.

Its got 2 in the title and will be full price. The hell it isn't a new game.

 

[Torhthelm Tídwald]

This game isn't an entirely new game though. Its more like an extended version of WKC1. If you deleted your save it would be no different than getting to world 4 in new Super Mario Bros, deleting your save file, and then expecting to start off at world 4 again later. You couldn't. You would need to start over. Hence for WKC part 2 you would need to start over and play the first levels again (i.e. the first part of the story).

Mario had warp zones for precisely this reason. So people wouldn't have to play (all of) the start to play the end.

 

[Lance Bone Path]

The more I think about it the more it seems like there is no good reason to do so. You would need to have some serious confidence in your story to feel everyone should experience it from the very beginning.

It could be an experiment to see if they can sell DLC that lets you skip over part 1.

 

[Vinci]

It's not a THEORY. What the fuck is wrong with you? Are you implying that there is no way that anyone could have finished WKC, and not kept the save for whatever reason? If there is even a SINGLE person affected by this, it is a negative impact. As you said, there is no positive impact.

Any producer who decides it is a good idea to implement a system in anything with no positive impact, but will have negative impact no matter how minor, is a fucking retard who should look for work elsewhere. Do you disagree?

How is this even under dispute? Really? I want to know.