People are so dumb..
What do you expect when the media focuses on these 3 topics 98% of the time.
I do think political extremism is one of the most important issues we face right now (coupled with climate change).
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German Federal Elections 2017 |OT| Electing the new leader of the free world
- Thread starter Xando
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What do you expect when the media focuses on these 3 topics 98% of the time.
I do think political extremism is one of the most important issues we face right now (coupled with climate change).
EEEEVIL Foreigners! Be German! p.S.: Don't actually bother using a German keyboard, the foreigners have a better one.
lightchris
Member
People are so dumb..
[Counter-Strike voice]
Terrorists win!
[/Counter-Strike voice]
This is exactly what they want. All the claims of "we're not going to let those terrorist cowards dictate our lifes" are empty as long as the polls show otherwise. And yes, the media are partly at fault for this.
Blame the media. They are broadcasting and writing about these issues 24/7 and totally blow them out of proportion. I don't remember the last time I saw a memorable coverage on climate change or elderly care. That being said, I also consider political extremism a highly important topic.
People are so dumb..
If we look at more than just the top three issues polled in that study, we see that the results for other causes of fear have not changed much.
Looking only at the top three might give the impression that Germans are oblivious to other issues because of terrorism, but the complete results show that this is not the case. The results for fear of the situation of elderly care, for instance, have not changed at all.
Moreover, this specific chart does not really show the question for an individual's single biggest fear. It's a poll for the most common bigger fear. There is a significant difference, since for the former the answers are mutually exclusive, while for the latter all issues are polled individually. We can't deduce from this poll that terrorism is the one issue that is most urgently on people's mind. Only that among the urgent issues it is the one that is on most people's minds.
This was not a poll for "what are your three most important issues."
The takeaway is that more people are simply more concerned about terrorism and immigration. They are more concerned about terrorism when the number of terrorist attacks in Europe is rising. They are more concerned about the negative consequences of immigration after a historically large wave of people came to the country without preparation. We don't need rocket science to see why that is the case. Calling people "dumb" for reacting that way is unwarranted.
SporeCrawler
Member
i really think people should have some empathy towards refugees. those are people that really suffered a lot of terrible things and we are treating them like garbage. and not only that, even non-aryan germans are now seen as a second rate citizen as the recent comments from certain politicians indicate (gauland for example said a german politician with turkish roots should be deported to turkey. in fact, its a stance that isnt exclusive to them. CSU also said a few years ago that any language outside of german should be eliminated at homes).. it looks like afd will get 8-11% while having language that is not very different to NPD. if you factor in its sister party CSU which also will get a similar percentage its about 20% of the german voters voting far right. its extremely sad.
Patrick Bateman
Member
If we look at more than just the top three issues polled in that study, we see that the results for other causes of fear have not changed much.
Looking only at the top three might give the impression that Germans are oblivious to other issues because of terrorism, but the complete results show that this is not the case. The results for fear of the situation of elderly care, for instance, have not changed at all.
Moreover, this specific chart does not really show the question for an individual's single biggest fear. It's a poll for the most common bigger fear. There is a significant difference, since for the former the answers are mutually exclusive, while for the latter all issues are polled individually. We can't deduce from this poll that terrorism is the one issue that is most urgently on people's mind. Only that among the urgent issues it is the one that is on most people's minds.
This was not a poll for "what are your three most important issues."
The takeaway is that more people are simply more concerned about terrorism and immigration. They are more concerned about terrorism when the number of terrorist attacks in Europe is rising. They are more concerned about the negative consequences of immigration after a historically large wave of people came to the country without preparation. We don't need rocket science to see why that is the case. Calling people "dumb" for reacting that way is unwarranted.
Oh well, I only saw those top 3-stats. Thanks for showing the full poll.
Yet, I think that people are overreacting.
There were always terrorism or immigrant waves in Europe.
The way people deal with it now seems different though.
lightchris
Member
I think the Internet plays a strong role in this too. The global village. Everything that happens seems very close and relateble to us nowadays (at least as long as you don't take a moment to actually think about it). People see a terrorist attack and its victims, and the first reaction is "oh god, this could have been me as well, you can't be safe anywhere anymore". Even though the actual risk of being attacked are as low as ever and there are literally thousands of other factors you should be more afraid of (and against which we could actually do something).
Terrorism just got more effective through globalization and I think the only thing that could help against it is education towards more critical thinking and less emotional overreaction.
Is this the place beyond right and wrong?
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
I rarely come across worthwhile analysis of german politics by international media, this is one such instance:
The German Election Is a Christian Civil War
Germanys far-right is saying out loud what Angela Merkels party has always quietly believed: that Christian culture depends on Christian demographics.
Americans would do well to take note of the conflict now unfolding between the AfD and the incumbent chancellor, even if Merkel is widely expected to win a record-tying fourth term. In general, liberals in the United States have been paying far less attention to the German election season compared with the widespread hand-wringing over the growth of populism in the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, and France earlier this year. But in fact, it will be in stable, boring old Germany where the most dramatic challenge to open borders and multiculturalism comes.
.
.
.
The AfD is eager to show that Merkel and the CDU will not dare to fight for what it has always claimed to value: the conservation of a Christian Germany and Europe. And in doing so, they are exposing the tension inherent in the CDUs program: the repressed assumption that the maintenance of a certain type of ethnic majority is necessary for that project. The AfD claims it is no more deserving of the white nationalist label than the historic CDU upon which it is modeled.
The conflict between the AfD and the CDU in Germany sheds light on the current civil war between the pro-Trump wing and the establishment wing of the Republican Party, the dominant representative of Christian politics in the United States. Like Merkel, Sen. Mitch McConnell and House Speaker Paul Ryan are often seen by their internal challengers as too politically correct to clearly articulate the demographic dangers that threaten white Christian America. To appreciate this transatlantic convergence, one might look to the fact that the AfD has has hired Vincent Harris, the young Christian conservative political strategist of Harris Media, to consult on its election media blitz. Harris became known through his work using sexualized ad campaigns for Donald Trump and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu linking ethnic demographic fear and religious identity.
http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/09/11/the-german-election-is-a-christian-civil-war-merkel-cdu-afd/?
I recommend reading the entire article.
The German Election Is a Christian Civil War
Germanys far-right is saying out loud what Angela Merkels party has always quietly believed: that Christian culture depends on Christian demographics.
Americans would do well to take note of the conflict now unfolding between the AfD and the incumbent chancellor, even if Merkel is widely expected to win a record-tying fourth term. In general, liberals in the United States have been paying far less attention to the German election season compared with the widespread hand-wringing over the growth of populism in the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, and France earlier this year. But in fact, it will be in stable, boring old Germany where the most dramatic challenge to open borders and multiculturalism comes.
.
.
.
The AfD is eager to show that Merkel and the CDU will not dare to fight for what it has always claimed to value: the conservation of a Christian Germany and Europe. And in doing so, they are exposing the tension inherent in the CDUs program: the repressed assumption that the maintenance of a certain type of ethnic majority is necessary for that project. The AfD claims it is no more deserving of the white nationalist label than the historic CDU upon which it is modeled.
The conflict between the AfD and the CDU in Germany sheds light on the current civil war between the pro-Trump wing and the establishment wing of the Republican Party, the dominant representative of Christian politics in the United States. Like Merkel, Sen. Mitch McConnell and House Speaker Paul Ryan are often seen by their internal challengers as too politically correct to clearly articulate the demographic dangers that threaten white Christian America. To appreciate this transatlantic convergence, one might look to the fact that the AfD has has hired Vincent Harris, the young Christian conservative political strategist of Harris Media, to consult on its election media blitz. Harris became known through his work using sexualized ad campaigns for Donald Trump and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu linking ethnic demographic fear and religious identity.
http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/09/11/the-german-election-is-a-christian-civil-war-merkel-cdu-afd/?
I recommend reading the entire article.
kingkaiser
Member
This quote from said article right here is what gave me food for thought:
I really doubt Merkel's successor, whoever it might be, is going to rule out a right-wing alliance between CDU/CSU and the AFD just that easily, because in the near future this may very well be their only path to government apart of the never-ending great-coalitions and I fear our society will become as polarized as the people in the USA currently are when this happens.
Bitch Pudding
Member
Sure, might as well say goodbye to all those left-centrist / centrist voters.
kingkaiser
Member
That's inevitable though. Traditionally the CDU is a right-wing party with Merkel being the left-centrist anomaly, said people are supporting her but not her party. The only question is just how hard the right-turn is going to be after her term in office is over.
Kill Your Masters
Member
Didn't the Republicans and Democrats switched roles?
Parties change.
To me it feels like the AfD is the biggest anomaly. Going from nobody, to almost 15%, to now 7-10%, to ???? in 4 years, depending if Germany collapses under burkas and the islamisation of the abendland (lulz) or not. They won't be able to get more votes in 4 years if their fearmongering predictions don't come true. (and when they show their incompetency in the Bundestag)
Meanwhile, Merkel is 100% commited to no Obergrenze for refugees.
http://www.fr.de/politik/bundestags...-garantiert-verzicht-auf-obergrenze-a-1349011
Bitch Pudding
Member
CDU is a right-centrist party. The AfD is a far-right party with die hard Nazis in their ranks. A coalition with them in the Bundestag - and especially announcing one in front of an election - would be suicide. I mean, I understand that you hope they will, as it would open the gate for a Red-Read coalition, but this will never happen. Last but not least the CSU would rather quit the Union before accepting a democratic partner to their right.
Bitch Pudding
Member
FJS will turn in his grave if that ever happens (it will not).
kingkaiser
Member
The AFD was formed as a response to the left-shift under Merkel by former CDU members who felt betrayed. If it weren't for Merkel's very high popularity the party had her axed long ago just like she axed every conservative contender within the party.
Merkel made herself "without an alternative" within the party, but because of that she and especially her style of governing are seen very controversial by many party members.
She is going to leave one hell of a power-vacuum once she resigns and the coming intern power struggle is very much in favor of right-wing party-members because they are still the majority and backbone of the party.
That's a joke, right?
FJS with his war against the press was pretty much the pioneer of the "Lügenpresse" movement.
Merkel made herself "without an alternative" within the party, but because of that she and especially her style of governing are seen very controversial by many party members.
She is going to leave one hell of a power-vacuum once she resigns and the coming intern power struggle is very much in favor of right-wing party-members because they are still the majority and backbone of the party.
That's a joke, right?
FJS with his war against the press was pretty much the pioneer of the "Lügenpresse" movement.
Patrick Bateman
Member
I highly doubt that. Most AFD-voters are people who didn't vote before. It's not like they all went from SPD or CDU to AFD.
I also think that AFD is a collecting basin of protest voters. Back then there was the PDS, REP, NPD, Linke whatever who attracted such people. Now it's the AFD for those people.
LOL, ok yeah.
kingkaiser
Member
After the Merkel era the CDU will have no other choice but to cater to their base, and that base mainly consists of conservative Christian nationalists, beside of course the small but notorious group of wealthy big capitalists who fund this party with their donations.
Or they can continue to cater their new base. Which would be smarter because beeing a conservative, christian nationalist isnt sexy.
Bitch Pudding
Member
Alles Nazis außer Mutti...
Seems like you're not familiar with the FSJ-doctrine...
Some of you completely underestimate the popularity of Merkel and her politics amongst millennials and younger generations. In my eyes she didn't shift so much to the left but simply forward. Her politics are much more in line with global-urban views than the left/right rethoric, that still is so prevalent in political discourse in G, can give her credit. Ideology free politics, that is what conservatism is to them. In contrast to Schulz and the SPD who still live in a world of workers, Feierabendbier and Stammtischen it seems.
Was it Schmidt with whom he made that deal that there wont be any parties left beside the SPD or the right of CDU? I dont see how that really factors into his own behaviour. And you know exactly what kind of stuff FSJ pulled of.
Also, I am more fine with a 5-10% AfD spouting racist bullshit then with a 50% CSU who is shouting the same bullshit. And yes. Söder and Seehofer did and still do this. Even when its getting better as more as we are getting away from the refugee crisis.
kingkaiser
Member
Well yeah, but it just happens to be that there is no one in the party with the necessary mass appeal of Merkel, not even in the slightest.
The party high-ups mainly consist of right-wing nuts like Jens Spahn and Peter Tauber the German equivalent to Ted Cruz and Mike Huckabee.
All the AFD need is some charismatic leader figure who happens to be somewhat likeable for the oppressed classes and the CDU will crawl to their feet much like the Republicans did for Trump.
You want to see the Franz Josef Strauß doctrine and who happens to be worshipping him now? Well, just take a look at that...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_QlSXObhK0
Frankfurter
Member
Why would they do this? Their "base" is way smaller than what they are currently catering to. Catering to Christians seems like a great plan in a country that gets less religious with every passing year.
Bitch Pudding
Member
Spahn and Tauber are idiots, but please dont get yourself worked up to much, you dont do yourself any favor. Seriously.
kingkaiser
Member
Because they are losing their white Christian nationalist base to the AFD, they will have to correct course just like SPD still has to after Schröder, and them being the perfect example what happens when you ignore your base and the need for correction.
Well, both guys are just a taste of the things to come after Merkel.
Haunted
Member
This is very good point.
hanspampel
Banned
Not sure what you guys are talking about, but the more likely conservative demographic is growing and not shrinking.
Over 50% of every eligible voter is now over 52.
This is up from 46 at the beginning of early nineteenth.
And the older you get, the more likely you vote conservative and even tho religion is getting less and less important, christian values are more and more seen as social values todays without the "god stuff.
And that will be how the try to catch the voters.
"christian values without being religious"
Edit: and yes, Merkel is also very popular with young people for being a "old conservative"
Over 50% of every eligible voter is now over 52.
This is up from 46 at the beginning of early nineteenth.
And the older you get, the more likely you vote conservative and even tho religion is getting less and less important, christian values are more and more seen as social values todays without the "god stuff.
And that will be how the try to catch the voters.
"christian values without being religious"
Edit: and yes, Merkel is also very popular with young people for being a "old conservative"
Idiots beeing idiotic and spießig? OK, no big problem then. And stupid shit like Taubers post about you get good money if you are working hard enough is indeed stupid, but its the usual neoliberal nonsense thats not even comparable to what you imply.
Frankfurter
Member
A significant portion of those AfD voters was never gonna vote CDU anyway. Many of them were non-voters and only a share of the others actually came from CDU. Unless AfD continues to grow its voter base from now on (which I doubt), there is little to gain for CDU (maybe 2 or 3%), but much to lose (to pretty much every other party, but especially to SPD and the Greens).
Orniletter
Banned
Yeah, exactly.
Istead of trying to build off of 3 won (soon to be 4) parliamentary elections, the Union will just toss everything they've learned (boring centrism sells) aside to go full on right wing dystopia on us. Makes sense.
hanspampel
Banned
here the eligible voter demographics from this year and the last election:
2013
2017
2013
2017
Frankfurter
Member
ARD/ZDF should just announce time and place and have two seats ready. If it's only Schulz that comes there, then so be it, he'll have the show for himself.
hanspampel
Banned
Muffin1611
Banned
Seems like ol' Martin got a Korb from Merkel:
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deuts...-tv-duell-mit-martin-schulz-ab-a-1167409.html
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deuts...-tv-duell-mit-martin-schulz-ab-a-1167409.html
Schulz will participate in the Wahlarena next Monday IIRC, so there's that at least.
Oh, and just like the email that surfaced recently, I guess this shouldn't come as a surprise either:
Oh, and just like the email that surfaced recently, I guess this shouldn't come as a surprise either:
http://www.zeit.de/2017/38/alice-weidel-afd-spitzenkandidatin-muslime
Bedameister
Member
A actually laughed out loud when reading this. This woman is a gold mine, just amazing
She lives with film producer Sarah Bossard, a Swiss citizen coming from Sri Lanka. They live together in Switzerland, not Germany. Together they raise Bossard's two sons, without the father.
(Weidel & Bossard)
Based on that alone, the AfD people should already hate her. The new story makes it just even more ridiculous.
SporeCrawler
Member
the sad thing is that afd voters will just see this as propaganda or will even say "she is smart. she has taken advantage of muslims"
tbh i think weidel is not really a right wing extremist but she is an opportunist that thinks that she can get a political career through acting to be a nazi.
hanspampel
Banned
Imagine Black / Yellow not enough for the majority
Black / Yellow / Green does not come to any agreement
so GroKo is it again and AFD being the biggest other party and leader of the opposition
probably the worst case Szenario for all the established parties