Okay. I think calling her statement anti gay rethoric is a bit harsh but I see the problem here.
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German anti-migrant party projected to be 2nd, 21% of the vote in regional election
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Okay. I think calling her statement anti gay rethoric is a bit harsh but I see the problem here.
You can try Wahl-O-Mat Berlin 2016 to get an answer. Ofc you will probably not find a party that agrees with you 100% but it gives you a good overview of the most important topics and how the parties stands to them
Benjamin1981
Member
Dude, i never said that all Syrians are using their war to exploit our system. That's just ridiculous. We have to help people who suffer from war. It's the right thing to do. But we should expect them to show their will to integrate in our society. That's only going to work if you learn the language. And that is not happening.
Read my edit.
Also:
Nah, you only said that Syrians who don't speak german for reasons you have clearly no idea about are exploiting their lucky, lucky situation. Come on, dude. You are one step away from just quoting random AfD and NPD posters, unknowingly or not.
No he is not saying that at all and this is exactly the rhetoric that's driving people there.
Sorry for jumping to conclusions, wasn't aware lower saxony had elections so soon. According to this page there are also many parties available to chose from there, but I'm guessing the town you are living in specifially doesn't have a representative of those parties? That sucks. It does. You could become involved with politics yourself and change that but I realise few people actually want to do that - if not, however, you clearly can only vote for whoever is available. And in that case: Vote for a party that isn't racist, homophobe and transphobe. You might not agree with everything other parties did but, especially in parts of lower saxony, the AfD is the party that will profit from you not choosing whoever you like the most in abscence of your absolute favorite party.
Maybe the example of two refugees he gives right before bemoaning refugees exploiting his good have nothing to do with each other? Because it's the only way I could see how he is not saying this at all.
And I know that. Honestly, he probably should vote for the AfD because his arguments are very, very similiar to theirs. I don't think it's my job to make people think about these people's situations and educate themselves about their living situation. I come from a small, conservative village with a refugee home that had its fair share of problems. And yet, I decided to approach these neighbors, educate myself and hold on onto a shred of empathy, without needing someone to constantly explain to me that they probably actually aren't willful exploiters of our great economy. I get emotional in this regard and I am probably too harsh too fast, but that's what happens if get to hear this nonsens non-stop for over a year and then get told that it's my and the refugees responsibility to argue for the fact that they are not terrorists, lazy welfare-exploiters or hellbent on destroying our culture. No. It's your responsibility not to be an ignorant, nationalist fool with only your own monetary gain in mind.
"I don't have anything against refugees, I just don't like this refugee situation" is such a bullshit argument. People want refugees to be orderly, calm and able to integrate into a completely different culture immediatley. Yeah, sorry, that's not going to happen. Refugees don't know if they want to stay here for long, they possibly want to go back to their home as fast as possible, they possibly can't stop thinking about their loved ones they lost or had to leave back home, theypossibly are traumatised and completely at odds with the german government system built upon decades of iteration and dealing with known problems. That's what being a refugee means. It's chaotic and terrible and it sucks. People have to go out of their comfort zone and possibly even change their way of live in the smallest way possible, maybe even spend a buck less in one area to help these people instead. That's what dealing with a refugee crisis means. If you can't accept that and instead just want to get kinda different looking germans to bolster your workforce then you do, in fact, have a problem with refugees.
Just look at your local candidates closely, who does something for the community you can support or are against. There may be some topic you're passionate about that they're debating, could be factory farming, fracking, schools, new roads or whatever applies to where you live. Low level politicians like the ones you're about to vote on shouldn't be blamed on stupid stuff public figures of their party say, unless they actively support it of course.
For the bigger elections, I'm facing the same dilemma as you do - there are people in every party that I don't want to support. But at the local level that support isn't so much for the party, it's more for a person you can agree with or not. It helps if you know the candidates personally or know somebody you trust who does. I took advice from my brother into consideration who knows most of our candidates through social interactions.
LegendofJoe
Member
I've recently come to the conclusion that a genocide of Muslims in Europe is only a matter of time. With climate change almost guaranteed to worsen there will be more refugee crises similar to Syria. Europe will be overwhelmed and right wing authoritarians will rise to power. The only question is where and when it will start.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
You need to start reading your daily news from different outlets.
Don't you think you're a bit going over the board? Technically, the union between man and woman and those of the same gender is not the same. By just giving it a different name but having the same rights and privileges, nobody is hurt. Partnership is not a derogatory term. I personally don't care if some want to call it marriage either, also ok for me - I just don't see this argument about one word as particularly homophobe.
These are elections on the very local level. You cannot really expect small towns to have all parties. The place I come from doesn't have the AfD or NPD for example. I actually decided not to vote in the upcoming local elections in Lower Saxony for three reasons:
- I have no idea what's going on there and what the individual parties want
- I haven't really lived there for the past 7 years
- I am far away on election day and it's pretty bothersome to arrange it by post
On a local level, these people can do relatively little damage anyway. It's mostly about where to build a new path for cyclists, where to build a new street, how to make things look nicer.
On a state or federal level, things are a bit different though.
LegendofJoe
Member
Do you disagree with my assertion that more refugee waves are likely to occur?
That's not the crazy part of your post.
"Don't base your assumptions on your personal experience with refugees you racist. In my personal experience with refugees they are ... instead"
How is this concept so hard to grasp that different people have different experiences? Someone working with refugee families will have a different perspective than someone who's girlfriend has been harassed multiple times by young migrant groups. Someone who is working with syrian doctors for diploma recognition will have a different perspective than someone who constantly sees refugees fighting or causing trouble otherwise.
The difference being that YOU are denying that there even are different perspectives and experiences. To you only your own personal anecdotes somehow count and everybody else is a nazi. Either you're good or bad. That's not how real life works.
His Majesty
Banned
I think the 'muslim genocide' part was what led to his disagreement.
just a random guess
YourMaster
Member
You're guessed correctly. And I'm still searching, for anybody, remotely acceptable. I still haven't received the full lists, but so far no luck.
That's usually my strategy for local elections, and I'm more politically engaged than 99% of people out there, I've been to council meetings, am on first name basis with most of the politicians here, the mayor is my next door neighbor. Still haven't found anybody to vote for in good conscience.
Usually it's the bolded part a poster is referring to.
LegendofJoe
Member
Nobody is saying that is going to be less of a problem, but genocide? Come-on...
LegendofJoe
Member
It happened as recently as 20 years ago in Bosnia, if you think it can't happen again you're fooling yourself.
I am not an expert on German politics, but Merkel's strategy of letting in millions of refugees without a proper integration plan was a mistake. It is not surprising that people are rebelling and voting right.
Hopefully, it's not too late to correct Germany's trajectory. I don't want to see a right-wing party elected.
Hopefully, it's not too late to correct Germany's trajectory. I don't want to see a right-wing party elected.
Are you seriously suggesting Europeans will start to slaughter muslims?
You'd hope so, but the post-election reactions are always the same. "We didn't explain our plan well enough to voters", "the right-wing nazis baited the people in with hate" or a vague "We need to figure out how to get the trust of the people back". In Austria basically the last 20 (whether local, federal or presidential) elections the former big parties SPÖ and ÖVP always had big losses (mostly to the right-wing FPÖ) and literally every single time they say the same things in reaction to a point where probably I could write it for them by memory. I don't think they will change unless they are forced out of the government. Of course the interesting thing will be to see how future coalitions will look like because with the rise of the right-wing it's getting harder and harder for the old parties to form new coalitions.
WorriedCitizen
Member
Is it so surprising that someone starts to believe a genocide could happen soon when the right in general gets portayed as nazi, right wing extremists etc. with no nuance? The fear mongering works both ways. Ironically this rhetoric works as fuel for the success of AfD and the likes because more and more people take notice of this disconnect between rhetoric and reality.
You can argue that the AfD has some xenophobic elements in their ideas but to paint a picture that they are the new NSDAP is utter ridiculous. I doubt that anyone except a small fringe minority (the 2-3% who vote NPD usualy) has interest in a revival of Hitler times. In my perception the AfD mostly fills the gap that the CDU left after moving strongly towards leftist and greens policies. CDU is no longer a conservative party, the AfD is.
You can argue that the AfD has some xenophobic elements in their ideas but to paint a picture that they are the new NSDAP is utter ridiculous. I doubt that anyone except a small fringe minority (the 2-3% who vote NPD usualy) has interest in a revival of Hitler times. In my perception the AfD mostly fills the gap that the CDU left after moving strongly towards leftist and greens policies. CDU is no longer a conservative party, the AfD is.
LegendofJoe
Member
In Eastern Europe especially it's a distinct possibility if climate change leads to the displacement of more Muslims.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I've resigned to at least one term by the FPÖ. Best case scenario they fuck up bad enough not to be elected for another decade.
It's our own fault our politicians are spineless fuckers but they at least aren't spineless enough to give in to the xenophobic voices yet and any party that will even consider a coalition with the FPÖ will never get my vote. I can migrate.
So you want to forbid right-wing/populist parties or what are you saying?
Like what? Banning the party? For what reason? There are far more extremist parties in existence right now and even they aren't close to a ban. Germany has actually done it in the past (two times to be exact), but only in the 50s and any other attempts failed miserably.
Nah, as much as I disagree with them they should be allowed the same freedom of speech like everyone else, even if it is drivel. Just thought they were more... sensitive, like even Wolfenstein, which is just a videogame in the end, was either banned or changed a bit (can't remember which).
Well Wolfenstein and nazi symbols in german versions of Videogames is really just an issue because back then when they forbid it in the (I think) 90s video games weren't considered art(similar to movies etc) yet. That is very likely to be different now, the thing is just that no publisher cares enough to go through the legal trouble to get a new ruling. As an austrian it was often annoying because some publishers wouldn't make a special austrian/swiss version but just a general german version which would then be censored, eventhough there are no such laws in austria and switzerland. So you always had track down PEGI versions if you didn't want to fight against the Alpha Wolves(instead of Nazis) in Wolfenstein.
That conflict had on the other side extremist christians (both Catholic and Orthodox) taking part on the genocide. I really don't see that happening without a massive rise in real hardcore religious belief in Europe. With modern media there is no way for a regime to hide a genocide from its people so it would have to sell it to them.
Cutting any social benefits from the refugees and/or kick them out of the country I could see happening but not genocide.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
As dumb as David Cameron was his refugee policy was pretty decent, though I feel we could do much more. Basically our policy is to take in people directly from the refugee camps near Syria.
Not like any other party does. So the people vote one who at least speaks about the issue. Everyone else buried their heads in the sand.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
That happened in the midst of a savage civil war fueled by the kind of religious fanaticism and sectarianism that no longer exists in the EU.
For that to happen the European Union would have to be dissolved and the European states fall into utter chaos, at which point a targeted genocide would be just a part of an even bigger humanitarian clusterfuck, which is to say something. Tom Clancy wouldn't have dared to write such a thing.
And even of it were the non-EU affiliated Eastern portion the one getting some funny ideas about ethnic cleansing, they wouldn't even dare to do such thing since: a) Russia wouldn't like to deal with the resulting mess spreading from the neighbouring Muslim republics/states; and b) Most refugees are fleeing towards Western Europe anyway.
It's a terrible thought that is not even worth entertaining.
That just couldn't be further from the truth. For the last year nothing but the refugee crisis was discussed on every channel in every talk show with every single party you could possibly think of. Parts of the CDU even talked about how they agree with part of the populace (Bosbach basically spent the last 2 years camping in talk shows), Interior Minister De Maziere openly talked about the possibility of terror attacks. The AfD program and arguments were analyzed, fact checked, deconstructed to hell and back.
All of these issues were and are being discussed. People who vote AfD today don't want discussion, they want one specific answer: "You are right, there are too many foreigners, let's close the Border." But only AfD and NPD (and in Bavaria the CSU) give this specific answer, because everyone else actually bothers to have educated discussions and measures instead of going for the easy fearmongering. So it doesn't matter how long and detailed you discuss this problem as long as you don't come to the conclusions they want you to come to: To only worry about the germans and stop caring for all these foreigners.
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
Of course, it's not like hundreds of people were drowning regularly before the German policy.
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
What it have to do with the my post ? So it's ok to drown and die if you are a young male adult ?
Lol, one case of anti semitism by migrants so let's close the frontiers, do you believe in the concept of collective punishment?
How many anti semitic crimes by Germans each year?
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
No, immigration is actually a net profit of 12 billon $ every year for welfare state like France.
It's just populist fueled hate, nothing more.
gutter_trash
Banned
Merkel did exaggerate though, I am all for helping refugees but Merkel took in way too many in such a short window
Canada handled it better
Canada handled it better
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
Just look how many refugees countries like Pakistan, Turkey, Jordan or Lebanon took.
And they are not exactly opulent western countries.
Ok. So because Lebanon took 1/3 of it's population, germany now has to take at least 27 million as well before they can say it's enough? What is your point? And Turkey is a neighboring country which is much more similar to Syria culturally and religiously.
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
How many is "too much" for Germany ? This is the question.
Turkey took more than 2 million and they have very bad issues right now, domestically and internationally.
And the refugees are received in very good condition, if you compare with the treatment they got in France, Spain or Italy. It's just shameful and very eloquent about the reality of all those humans rights discourses Europe are giving all the time.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
For once I agree with Golden Pigeon. Saying enough is enough is laughable. If it's security concerns that's one thing but the capacity has hardly been reached and even less so for the rest of the EU or just central and western EU.
We're talking here about one of if not the single wealthiest regions in the world.
Not to mention citing Canada, they have the luxury of having an entire ocean between them and refugees and can take how many they want which is a pitiful amount.
We're talking here about one of if not the single wealthiest regions in the world.
Not to mention citing Canada, they have the luxury of having an entire ocean between them and refugees and can take how many they want which is a pitiful amount.
So you want to force refugees to live in countries they don't want to stay in?(ie everything that isn't austria/germany/sweden; especcially all of the centreal-eastern european countries) And who decided it's Europes job to take in everyone from the region while everyone else(besides select closeby countries like Turkey or Lebanon) is watching?
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
So long as they are being treated fairly sure. We decided that when we recognized the right to seek asylum as a basic human right.
We're not even taking in everyone from those regions the majority are in neighbouring countries.
Considering the fortune we had in being born in a central to northwestern european country why wouldn't you expect refugees to want to come here?
How do you want them to go there? If they tell you No we want Germany, we won't stay in XYZ. What do you do?
Of course it's understandable but we're not living in an utopia and our prosperity isn't unlimited, neither did it just fall off the tree. Social systems require people working and thus paying taxes into it.
I guess it is pretty confusing for anti-immigration voters that Merkel welcomed Syrian refugees, normally the CDU is against immigration (and the rest of the party doesn't seem happy with Merkel over that while the SPD is strongly in favor) so now they can't vote for their usual party.
It's pretty difficult to ban a political party, they've been trying with the much more overt NPD for years.
"No work permit or social services outside your assigned country until you've worked X years".
It's pretty difficult to ban a political party, they've been trying with the much more overt NPD for years.
"No work permit or social services outside your assigned country until you've worked X years".
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Give them the option to either go there or have their asylum request rejected.
Sure our prosperity isn't limitless but so aren't refugees and there are more than a few welfare systems in place that are due being adjusted down to reality.
It'd also be easier for refugees to contribute if they got a hold of work permits sooner after which they'd actually get to pay taxes.
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