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[2MF]

So like the dissonance begins when we talk about the premise.

I don't think the German government caused the refugee crisis. The crisis was at hand in the Mediterranean. It was a pragmatic approach to solve a humanitarian catastrophy.

And the decision makers were completely let down by other EU states, by the coalition partners, not so much by the opposition funny enough. They also were not able to communicate the necessity and the plans to a big minority of the population. But to be fair it is hard to be heard over the hysteric screaming of those fringe parties and the boulevard media.

I don't know why you're quoting me. I was replying to someone who asked how these German voters are affected by refugees, and I gave an example.

 

[Benjamin1981]

Horst Seehofer might not be popular outside of bavaria but he is not afraid to speak the truth. And NPD and AfD references to my comment are absurd.

 

[Fritz]

I don't know why you're quoting me. I was replying to someone who asked how these German voters are affected by refugees, and I gave an example.

You answered me. But you are right, response doesn't really fit.

 

[YoungFa]

Protest voting is giving back a blank vote. Or nullifying your vote. It's misused recently to justify voting for dubious parties.

Again, if you vote for a party you vote for that party's policies*, no matter what you say to yourself to feel you're still a decent human being.

Edit: and this is valid for all the parties, because I see this excuse for any party, not just the extremist ones.

Thats throwing away your vote. Noone except the guy putting your vote on the invalid stack will ever know. It doesn't show up on any fancy graphic in the evening news.
In the case of AFD, most of their voters appearently didnt vote before. Usually that means they were supporting the established/ruling parties by their non-vote. How is nullifying their vote showing anything on an important metric?

 

[KingSnake]

You can make a protest vote by voting an extremist party. But then you are ready to accept the idea that that party can win or end up in the government and put in place its policies. Which means you must be at least OK with the said policies. Like UKIP in UK.

You can't come afterwards and say "but I only wanted to protest". The way you chose to protest has consequences which you should assume.

 

[YoungFa]

Edit: Quoted Post was edited.

 

[SigSig]

Largest AfD gain, 56K, comes from voters who didn't participate in the last election but they also drew some blood from other parties across the political spectrum, from the very far-right (NPD) to the far-left (Die Linke).

Even though I absolutely disagree with the AfD, these numbers leave mixed feelings. More participating voters is always a good thing, even if they vote for something I despise.

 

[KingSnake]

Edit: Quoted Post was edited.

Sorry for that, I was still thinking out loud a bit.

 

[ClosingADoor]

You can make a protest vote by voting an extremist party. But then you are ready to accept the idea that that party can win or end up in the government and put in place its policies. Which means you must be at least OK with the said policies. Like UKIP in UK.

You can't come afterwards and say "but I only wanted to protest". The way you chose to protest has consequences which you should assume.

While I don't agree with voting for parties like this and will not do so myself, how would you go about making your voice heard in an election when none of the other parties are addressing the issues you see in society, except this one party that you don't really want to associate yourself with also?

 

[Chairmanchuck]

You can make a protest vote by voting an extremist party. But then you are ready to accept the idea that that party can win or end up in the government and put in place its policies. Which means you must be at least OK with the said policies. Like UKIP in UK.

You can't come afterwards and say "but I only wanted to protest". The way you chose to protest has consequences which you should assume.

Now...
I know quite some people, especially older ones, that vote for AfD because out of protest.

"Um der Merkel eins auszuwischen!"

While I don't agree with voting for parties like this and will not do so myself, how would you go about making your voice heard in an election when none of the other parties are addressing the issues you see in society, except this one party that you don't really want to associate yourself with also?

People who vote for AfD dont usually vote because of "several issues", but because of one issue. Refugees. "No one" voted for them when "they" wanted out of the EU, get rid of the Euro etc.

If you vote out of protest, there are still many other parties available, big and small ones. And just using The Gruene as an example, even totally small parties can become big. I woudl even say if the Piratenpartei wouldnt put incompetent fools as their signboard and instead would use the real politicians, lawyers, academics etc. they actually had into important positions, they wouldnt have destroyed themselves.

 

[Nervous Sausage]

I don't understand the "Thanks Merkel" or "Merkels fault" sentiment.

If you vote for a bigoted, racist, anti-semitist, islamophobic, homophobic, climate change denying party because "immigrants!!!" then you are a ignorant piece of shit and an idiot.

No excuses. No Merkel, no refugees, no nothing. Human garbage votes for human garbage.

Ironic that most of the migrants are coming in from the most anti-semitist and homophobic places on Earth, while likely bringing those same harmful attitudes with them. Islamophobia is a bullshit word and no such equivalent word exists for any other religion, yet we're free to disparage them without having a useless buzzword thrown at us. It can also be true that while somebody might vehemently disagree with one of their climate policies for example (as they should), the other policies are attractive enough compared to the competitors that it's enough to swallow the pill and vote for them anyway. This doesn't mean that you automatically support everything they've ever said or done.

 

[Fritz]

Horst Seehofer might not be popular outside of bavaria but he is not afraid to speak the truth. And NPD and AfD references to my comment are absurd.

Of course it's the truth. It's an absolutely ridiculous statement to begin with.

The problem is what it is implying. It's a toxic statement absolutely inadequate considering the situation at hand.

What is this shit statement getting at? What does this add of value to the discussion? What kind of solutions does it offer. Is anyone seriously expecting a response to this load of shit of a statement?

its not forbidden to say these things. Doesn't make you look any less dumb and infantile. And puts you on the same level of political discourse as NPD and AfD.

 

[Benjamin1981]

its not forbidden to say these things. Doesn't make you look any less dumb and infantile.

And belittling someone because he has a different opinion than you isn't dumb and infantile?

 

[ClosingADoor]

People who vote for AfD dont usually vote because of "several issues", but because of one issue. Refugees. "No one" voted for them when "they" wanted out of the EU, get rid of the Euro etc.

If you vote out of protest, there are still many other parties available, big and small ones. And just using The Gruene as an example, even totally small parties can become big. I woudl even say if the Piratenpartei wouldnt put incompetent fools as their signboard and instead would use the real politicians, lawyers, academics etc. they actually had into important positions, they wouldnt have destroyed themselves.

But are there parties in Germany with tougher (but more reasonable) stances on immigration than the current policy, without getting pushed towards the extreme right?

Because this is going to be a problem here in Holland with the coming elections also, where Wilders and his PVV will get big because people don't see other parties addressing the problems a lot of voters do have.

I don't like this rise of the far right, but traditional parties are seriously dropping the ball and wave away problems a not insignificant part of the population sees at the moment. They need to start taking that seriously and coming up with good answers or this will only continue.

 

[KingSnake]

While I don't agree with voting for parties like this and will not do so myself, how would you go about making your voice heard in an election when none of the other parties are addressing the issues you see in society, except this one party that you don't really want to associate yourself with also?

That's a tough question. In many countries a lot of people don't feel represented by the politicians. And not only about specific policies. Usually for specific topics you might be better if you participate in a dedicated "movement" for the said topic than a party. Or you can join the party that you find to be the closest with your ideas about the society (and not just one specific issue) or support some people from inside that party who have similar concerns. But the vote itself should never be a one issue vote. Because the scope of the election it's to chose a representative and a government ultimately that will handle a lot more issues for the next 4-5 years than just this one issue that might seem important now.

Now...

I know quite some people, especially older ones, that vote for AfD because out of protest.

"Um der Merkel eins auszuwischen!"

Well, I'm sorry, but that's an idiot way to vote.

 

[Dalibor68]

Of course it's the truth. It's an absolutely ridiculous statement to begin with.

The problem is what it is implying. It's a toxic statement absolutely inadequate considering the situation at hand.

What is this shit statement getting at? What does this add of value to the discussion? What kind of solutions does it offer. Is anyone seriously expecting a response to this load of shit of a statement?

its not forbidden to say these things. Doesn't make you look any less dumb and infantile. And puts you on the same level of political discourse as NPD and AfD.

It says that you cannot have unlimited / mass immigration by people who in many cases of Afghans or Somalis often are illiterate and have no salvageable education, never worked in their lives and by any forecast and bygone experience won't find work for 5+years or in other words be a drain on the already crumbling social system. What is so hard to understand there? Of course it's simplified into a catchier sounding phrase, every party does that because sadly those are the times we live in.

 

[Fritz]

And belittling someone because he has a different opinion than you isn't dumb and infantile?

Who am I belittling for a different opinion?

I am "belittling" people who use these kind of language to approach real world problems. Belittling is probably too tame for these people to be honest.

 

[barit]

So like the dissonance begins when we talk about the premise.

I don't think the German government caused the refugee crisis. The crisis was at hand in the Mediterranean. It was a pragmatic approach to solve a humanitarian catastrophy.

And the decision makers were completely let down by other EU states, by the coalition partners, not so much by the opposition funny enough. They also were not able to communicate the necessity and the plans to a big minority of the population. But to be fair it is hard to be heard over the hysteric screaming of those fringe parties and the boulevard media.

And to be extra fair, Germany first didn't gave a fuck about the refugee problem (between 2003-2013) and let Spain, Greece, Italy and so on handle it alone thanks to the Dublin arrangement. Now that we're directly affected everyone screams "EU, EU, we need EU wide solutions". That's what I call hypocritical

 

[Chairmanchuck]

But are there parties in Germany with tougher (but more reasonable) stances on immigration than the current policy, without getting pushed towards the extreme right?

The CSU and SPD lately noticed the trend that people vote for the AfD and, at least in some states, try to go down a "similar" route. But not by saying you should shoot children at the border, but reducing the influx of economical refugees, refugees who "lost" their passport etc.

I think a lot of people who vote for the AfD now either want the "old 70s Germany back" or dont even know what other shit the AfD is planning.
AfD would support a German Brexit.
AfD wants to reinstate all the nuclear plants.
AfD thinks that people who dont work shouldnt get social welfare because they might just be lazy (funnily a lot of the people who vote for AfD are from the lower position of society, so they would be the first to notice that).

With AfD I mean the high ranking politicians in the party who spout that bullshit.

Well, I'm sorry, but that's an idiot way to vote.

I dont disagree.

 

[KingSnake]

never worked in their lives

How do you even know this? Why would you even assume this?

 

[Dalibor68]

The CSU and SPD lately noticed the trend that people vote for the AfD and, at least in some states, try to go down a "similar" route. But not by saying you should shoot children at the border, but reducing the influx of economical refugees, refugees who "lost" their passport etc.

The thing is tho that people don't forget so quickly. They are not suddenly going to vote for SPD/CDU again one year after they (in their eyes) caused all of this just because SPD/CDU are starting to pee their pants seeing the polls/local election results.

 

[Fritz]

And to be extra fair, Germany first didn't gave a fuck about the refugee problem (between 2003-2013) and let Spain, Greece, Italy and so on handle it alone thanks to the Dublin arrangement. Now that we're directly affected everyone screams "EU, EU, we need EU wide solutions". That's what I call hypocritical

I agree, that was really disgraceful in retrospect. By the public as well. Don't see anything, don't hear anything don't speak anything...

 

[SporeCrawler]

This will not change the political landscape at all.
From a federal point of view the afd may get some voters from CDU/CSU but they will also get voters from the Linke. This means that a red-red-green coalition will not happen. Same thing with CDU/CSU/FDP and Red-Green. The next grand coalition is going to happen unless SPD somehow gets big again (which will not happen due to their stance on migration)

The thing is tho that people don't forget so quickly. They are not suddenly going to vote for SPD/CDU again one year after they (in their eyes) caused all of this just because SPD/CDU are starting to pee their pants seeing the polls/local election results.

The national polls clearly indicate that CDU/SPD will form the next government die to the lack of alternatives. Nobody will get into a coalition with Afd

At the end of the day the 10-15% the Afd is going to get is just lowering the options for other coalitions

Horst Seehofer might not be popular outside of bavaria but he is not afraid to speak the truth. And NPD and AfD references to my comment are absurd.

Not at all. It is a fact that NPD and AFD are saying the same thing as you are.

If you agree with them why do you feel ashamed?

And to be extra fair, Germany first didn't gave a fuck about the refugee problem (between 2003-2013) and let Spain, Greece, Italy and so on handle it alone thanks to the Dublin arrangement. Now that we're directly affected everyone screams "EU, EU, we need EU wide solutions". That's what I call hypocritical

Fully agreed. Merkels fault is not her lenient approach in 2015 but her ignorance in 2005-2015

Still I think that she is doing the right thing. The constitutional right to asylum has been respected and many peoples lives have been saved (some people from CSU were saying that people should be sent to safe syrian cities like alleppo)

The CSU and SPD lately noticed the trend that people vote for the AfD and, at least in some states, try to go down a "similar" route. But not by saying you should shoot children at the border, but reducing the influx of economical refugees, refugees who "lost" their passport etc.

I think a lot of people who vote for the AfD now either want the "old 70s Germany back" or dont even know what other shit the AfD is planning.
AfD would support a German Brexit.
AfD wants to reinstate all the nuclear plants.
AfD thinks that people who dont work shouldnt get social welfare because they might just be lazy (funnily a lot of the people who vote for AfD are from the lower position of society, so they would be the first to notice that).

With AfD I mean the high ranking politicians in the party who spout that bullshit.



I dont disagree.

SPD is traditionally very lenient on migration. Gabriel is just trying to fish for some votes

 

[Fritz]

It says that you cannot have unlimited / mass immigration by people who in many cases of Afghans or Somalis often are illiterate and have no salvageable education, never worked in their lives and by any forecast and bygone experience won't find work for 5+years or in other words be a drain on the already crumbling social system. What is so hard to understand there? Of course it's simplified into a catchier sounding phrase, every party does that because sadly those are the times we live in.

This is an actual concern I share. I however will not excuse the use of language in those examples. There is also a difference between this parole and your run of the mill poster catch phrase. It's obscene.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

The thing is tho that people don't forget so quickly. They are not suddenly going to vote for SPD/CDU again one year after they (in their eyes) caused all of this just because SPD/CDU are starting to pee their pants seeing the polls/local election results.

So they would rather vote for a party that tries to bring Germany back to the society of the 60s/70s instead of one that actually made Germany the way it is today. We have a lot of problems and I dont vote for either SPD, CDU, Grüne, FDP, but I also wouldnt vote for a party that thinks that nuclear energy is the way to go in 2016, social welfare is just for lazy people and the EU/Montanunion before was the biggest mistake Germany made. The last two things cant even be backed up by facts, because because of that we are the biggest industrial country in Europe and I dont think anyone living here has it really bad with a social security system, (free) healthcare etc.

There are still so many other parties to vote for besides the big ones. In my opinion a lot of AfD voters are plain stupid to vote just because of one thing they disagree with the other parties or out of spite of the big parties.
See what that did to Great Britain...

SPD is traditionally very lenient on migration. Gabriel is just trying to fish for some votes

I am aware of that. Thats what all the big parties are doing now, though I think the CDU/CSU changed their stance quite quickly when they realized the scope of the refugee crisis.

 

[Dalibor68]

How do you even know this? Why would you even assume this?

Let me specifiy: never worked a job that would help them/they could do easily in europe. 33% of young afghani men cannot read or write, in March 46,4% of afghani people in Austria were without a job and according to OECD it will take 5-6 years until they(meaning newly arrived afghani refugees/migrants) are prepared to work.

http://diepresse.com/home/wirtschaft/economist/4936988/Arbeitslose-Auslaender_Kein-Mythos
http://derstandard.at/2000035802965/Wie-es-um-die-Integration-von-Afghanen-in-Oesterreich-steht

This is an actual concern I share. I however will not excuse the use of language in those examples. There is also a difference between this parole and your run of the mill poster catch phrase. It's obscene.

I don't disagree. I don't like this sort of language either. It's just kinda become the norm nowadays unfortunately. (and in this specific case it might very well be a case of the CSU trying to salvage the conservative voter base)

 

[oti]

Horst Seehofer might not be popular outside of bavaria but he is not afraid to speak the truth. And NPD and AfD references to my comment are absurd.

I'm pointing out that you are LITERALLY saying the same thing as NPD and AfD. How is that absurd?

 

[Chairmanchuck]

I'm pointing out that you are LITERALLY saying the same thing as NPD and AfD. How is that absurd?

The funny thing is, that I heard this from Trump supporters countless times.

"He isnt afraid to speak the truth."

Oh. Erdogan too.
Oh. Duterte. What a surprise.
And the leave campaigners.

 

[YourMaster]

One of the problems in Germany of course is they also have a democratic deficit by having a large electoral threshold. This causes there to be hardly any parties to vote for, because only big parties get seats.

This supports the status quo, as is stands to reason that new parties would normally start out small.

Being new in Germany myself, this Sunday is the first time I get to vote here, and I have no idea on what. AfD has too many anti-jew and anti-gay sentiments for me to vote for them. CDU is a christian party and I strongly oppose giving electoral power to religious institutions. The greens are too far removed from my political views, and the SPD party here did some horrible anti-democratic things here their last term so I don't want to see them back.There's nobody else running here.
I've never not voted, but I'm considering just voting blank. There really should be more choice.

 

[SilentRob]

Horst Seehofer might not be popular outside of bavaria but he is not afraid to speak the truth. And NPD and AfD references to my comment are absurd.

Your comment literally quoted AfD and NPD campaigns. Not too absurd, really.

Justifying other people voting for the AfD with their fear of having lower retirement benefits when the AfD wants to explicitly lower retirement benefits in favor of tax cuts for the rich as part of their program is kind of a silly thing to say, don't you think?

Here is the truth: There are a lot of racists, nationalists and ultra-conservatists living in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern. The Neo Nazi Party got one of their best results ever here in 2011 with 6%. The AfD wants the same stuff the NPD wants, but packages it into a more "civil" public image, so all the people who'd be afraid of the image they'd harbor by openly supporting the NPD because they are a party of Neo-Nazis can now finally vote for AfD without that Stigma. But again: There are no big differences between the NPD and AfD. Voting for the AfD, be it out of protest or not, makes you a supporter of racists and facists.

Noteworthy: This is not the norm for germany. MeckPom is one of the most right-wing states in the country. By comparison, Berlin will have their regional election next week and over here AfD right now sits at 5th position with 10%. Nation wide they fight for third position with Grüne at 12%, far behind leading party CDU and SPD, with no other party wanting a coalition with them - so they have no shot at actually being part of the administration.

Let me be clear: This sucks. But it's not indicative for germany as a whole.

Being new in Germany myself, this Sunday is the first time I get to vote here, and I have no idea on what. AfD has too many anti-jew and anti-gay sentiments for me to vote for them. CDU is a christian party and I strongly oppose giving electoral power to religious institutions. The greens are too far removed from my political views, and the SPD party here did some horrible anti-democratic things here their last term so I don't want to see them back.There's nobody else running here.
I've never not voted, but I'm considering just voting blank. There really should be more choice.

Voting blank does literally nothing and you might as well stay at home. You don't change the percentages of the overall outcome, your vote just won't be count. Please don't do that. That might sound harsh but we really don't need more apathic young people too tired to actually bother to inform themselves.

In parts of Berlin there are almost two dozen parties you can vote for with pretty much every area you could think of covered. Bemoaning the lack of "more choice" couldn't be further from the truth. Just a few choices you have:

The liberal FDP
The left DIE LINKE
The party explicitly founded to fight for animal rights, Tierschutzpartei
The communist DKP
The satirical, liberal PARTEI (who could actualyl do quite some good when elected)

And so many more.

 

[Dalibor68]

I'm pointing out that you are LITERALLY saying the same thing as NPD and AfD. How is that absurd?

So if the NPD writes "Down with the rich! Social justice now!" noone can ever use the phrase "social justice now!" again? The message itself is not "nazi" at all. It's a very simplified, loaded phrase of a very real phenomenon that the CSU probably used to keep conservative/right-wing voters from leaving to AfD.

Noteworthy: This is not the norm for germany. MeckPom is one of the most right-wing states in the country. By comparison, Berlin will have their regional election next week and over here AfD right now sits at 5th position with 10%. Nation wide they fight for third position with Grüne at 12%, far behind leading party CDU and SPD, with no other party wanting a coalition with them - so they have no shot at actually being part of the administration.

Cities are always traditionally left-leaning, that's not news.

 

[SilentRob]

Cities are always traditionally left-leaning, that's not news.

That's why I also included nation-wide polls, where they are only polling with a few points more.

 

[Fritz]

One of the problems in Germany of course is they also have a democratic deficit by having a large electoral threshold. This causes there to be hardly any parties to vote for, because only big parties get seats.

This supports the status quo, as is stands to reason that new parties would normally start out small.

Being new in Germany myself, this Sunday is the first time I get to vote here, and I have no idea on what. AfD has too many anti-jew and anti-gay sentiments for me to vote for them. CDU is a christian party and I strongly oppose giving electoral power to religious institutions. The greens are too far removed from my political views, and the SPD party here did some horrible anti-democratic things here their last term so I don't want to see them back.There's nobody else running here.
I've never not voted, but I'm considering just voting blank. There really should be more choice.

You know why we have this threshold? It's because the parliament of the Weimar Republic was so fragmented that it was impossible to form decisions almost paralyzingly the parliament.

It's a reasonable measure to prevent this situation.

 

[SporeCrawler]

One of the problems in Germany of course is they also have a democratic deficit by having a large electoral threshold. This causes there to be hardly any parties to vote for, because only big parties get seats.

This supports the status quo, as is stands to reason that new parties would normally start out small.

Being new in Germany myself, this Sunday is the first time I get to vote here, and I have no idea on what. AfD has too many anti-jew and anti-gay sentiments for me to vote for them. CDU is a christian party and I strongly oppose giving electoral power to religious institutions. The greens are too far removed from my political views, and the SPD party here did some horrible anti-democratic things here their last term so I don't want to see them back.There's nobody else running here.
I've never not voted, but I'm considering just voting blank. There really should be more choice.

how about FDP?
BTw CDU is hardly a religious institution

 

[SporeCrawler]

So if the NPD writes "Down with the rich! Social justice now!" noone can ever use the phrase "social justice now!" again? The message itself is not "nazi" at all. It's a very simplified, loaded phrase of a very real phenomenon that the CSU probably used to keep conservative/right-wing voters from leaving to AfD.



Cities are always traditionally left-leaning, that's not news.

Oh its nazi in its core. It implies that the state of germany only has to care for itself and its own population and cannot strive for other more global goals like world peace.

 

[Dalibor68]

That's why I also included nation-wide polls, where they are only polling with a few points more.

True, but if you add the dark figure it could very well be around 15%. Which is still not that relevant overall, but it's still from 0-15% (or +10% if you want to count Lucke's AfD 2013) which is a very big rise so I wouldn't underestimate. Especcially if you consider future developments. If there's another CDU-SPD coalition in 2017 it will probably be the last 2-party-coalition in a long time. Then again, that's also far in the future, who knows what happens in the next 6 years. Probably in 2010 we didn't think we'd be at this point now.

 

[oti]

So if the NPD writes "Down with the rich! Social justice now!" noone can ever use the phrase "social justice now!" again? The message itself is not "nazi" at all. It's a very simplified, loaded phrase of a very real phenomenon that the CSU probably used to keep conservative/right-wing voters from leaving to AfD.



Cities are always traditionally left-leaning, that's not news.

I don't really know how to respond to this ridiculous post. Posters like you make me wonder whether I should just quit Off Topic altogether.

 

[Sloane]

One of the problems in Germany of course is they also have a democratic deficit by having a large electoral threshold. This causes there to be hardly any parties to vote for, because only big parties get seats.

This supports the status quo, as is stands to reason that new parties would normally start out small.

Eh... currently there are nine different parties with seats in state parliaments (ten if you count the CSU), five to six of which regularly cross the 5% hurdle. That's probably more than the average, and Die Piraten as well as, sadly, the AfD have proven that it's possible to gain traction relatively quickly. Even more parties would also bring a whole lot of new problems with them.

 

[YourMaster]

Voting blank does literally nothing and you might as well stay at home. You don't change the percentages of the overall outcome, your vote just won't be count. Please don't do that. That might sound harsh but we really don't need more apathic young people too tired to actually bother to inform themselves.

In parts of Berlin there are almost two dozen parties you can vote for with pretty much every area you could think of covered. Bemoaning the lack of "more choice" couldn't be further from the truth.

I'm not from Berlin. Neither am I apathetic and honestly not that young anymore either. I don't have a choice from 20 parties, there are just 4 parties running here. And I don't want to vote on a party is mostly disagree with. So what are my other options?

You know why we have this threshold? It's because the parliament of the Weimar Republic was so fragmented that it was impossible to form decisions almost paralyzingly the parliament.

It's a reasonable measure to prevent this situation.

I know this, but no it's an unreasonable antidemocratic measure to prevent that situation. Giving new political parties a chance is important. And parliament should just find a way to function without party doctrine.

how about FDP?
BTw CDU is hardly a religious institution

FDP doesn't run here. And the C is right there, can't miss it. It's also the reason for Merkels anti-gay rhetoric. A will never vote for a party of bigots.

 

[Shiggy]

FDP doesn't run here. And the C is right there, can't miss it. It's also the reason for Merkels anti-gay rhetoric. A will never vote for a party of bigots.

Is it your local election in Lower Saxony? The C stands for Christian, but in reality they are very detached from religion. Without the word, nobody would really connect them to religion anymore.

And Merkel has an anti-gay rhetoric?

 

[Benjamin1981]

Who am I belittling for a different opinion?

I am "belittling" people who use these kind of language to approach real world problems. Belittling is probably too tame for these people to be honest.

You called me dumb and infantile and put me in the nazi corner which is a shame. But that's just the way you politcally hyper correct people act. Have you ever had any real world contact with refugees? In my sports team we have two refugees. One from Syria and one from Africa. Both of them are very nice and have been here for over a year. Neither of them can speak any English or German besides "Moin" and "Wie geht's?". How are they supposed to find work and be integrated in the community when even the basic requirements like learning the language are not happening? So we have to pay for their living. People are exploiting our good will and that's just not right. That's why i used that term.

 

[Fritz]

I know this, but no it's an unreasonable antidemocratic measure to prevent that situation. Giving new political parties a chance is important. And parliament should just find a way to function without party doctrine.



FDP doesn't run here. And the C is right there, can't miss it. It's also the reason for Merkels anti-gay rhetoric. A will never vote for a party of bigots.

It's not like parties are forbidden and we constantly have new parties overcoming the threshold.


What is Merkels anti gay rethoric?

 

[Milly Osworth]

And people say Germany is idiot-free.

You're so politically correct!

 

[YourMaster]

Is it your local election in Lower Saxony? The C stands for Christian, but in reality they are very detached from religion. Without the word, nobody would really connect them to religion anymore.

And Merkel has an anti-gay rhetoric?

"I don't want to discriminate, but"

And yes, I live in a very small village in Lower Saxony.

 

[Fritz]

You called me dumb and infantile and put me in the nazi corner which is a shame. But that's just the way you politcally hyper correct people act. Have you ever had any real world contact with refugees? In my sports team we have two refugees. One from Syria and one from Africa. Both of them are very nice and have been here for over a year. Neither of them can speak any English or German besides "Moin" and "Wie geht's?". How are they supposed to find work and be integrated in the community when even the basic requirements like learning the language are not happening? So we have to pay for their living. People are exploiting our good will and that's just not right. That's why i used that term.

And you think "Wir sind nicht das Wohlfahrtsamt der Welt" is an appropriate term for the problem or throwing it around is in any way fit to change it?

 

[Shiggy]

"I don't want to discriminate, but"

And yes, I live in a very small village in Lower Saxony.

To be fair, as long as they get the same rights and privileges I don't see anything wrong with that (the problem is, there currently aren't the same privileges and rights as far as I know, but last I heard even the CDU intends to change it). So it only boils down to semantics, just the name "marriage" or "partnership". I wouldn't really consider this anti-homosexual because traditionally speaking "marriage" is the union between man and woman.

At the same time, I would not be surprised if the CDU in your small village was anti-homosexual.

 

[SilentRob]

One from Syria and one from Africa. Both of them are very nice and have been here for over a year. Neither of them can speak any English or German besides "Moin" and "Wie geht's?". How are they supposed to find work and be integrated in the community when even the basic requirements like learning the language are not happening? So we have to pay for their living. People are exploiting our good will and that's just not right. That's why i used that term.

Damn Syrians exploiting their war, dead families and us by refusing to learn german! Lucky bastards.
Yeah mate, sure you'd never vote for the AfD.

EDIT: And yes, obviously I had contact with refugess, quite a lot actually (my brother regularly accompanies them to all the government places they have to go, translates etc.), but I don't want to bother you with that because it could kinda rattle your victim complex. It's obvious you are suffering terribly. It's really weird these people can't speak german yet, just because they had to suddenly spend weeks, possibly months to flee halfway across the world, often suffer from terrible trauma, are not allowed to work and make money (if they are even old enough), have no income to actually get anything to help them learn german, are not allowed to go to school for possibly years after they arrived etc. etc. Damn them! If only there would be people they regularly see in some kind of, I don't know, sports club or something who could help them with that stuff and actually make it possible for them to integrate into the rest of society...

 

[YoungFa]

To be fair, as long as they get the same rights and privileges I don't see anything wrong with that (the problem is, there currently aren't the same privileges and rights as far as I know, but last I heard even the CDU intends to change it). So it only boils down to semantics, just the name "marriage" or "partnership". I wouldn't really consider this anti-homosexual because traditionally speaking "marriage" is the union between man and woman.

At the same time, I would not be surprised if the CDU in your small village was anti-homosexual.

How about butt buddies?

 

[Dalibor68]

Damn Syrians exploiting their war, dead families and us by refusing to learn german!
Yeah mate, sure you'd never vote for the AfD.

The irony being that your arrogance and handwaving is exactly what fuels this.

 

[SprachBrooks]

Look, I have debated with many UKIP people about the issue of free movement. I've tried engaging with their concerns, and challenging them where I disagree. I've provided them with a lot of research papers on why EU free movement has minimal impact on living standards. They still don't at least consider that they're overblowing this a bit too much. Let's not pretend that these people are all rational people. Some of them do act in a fashion that justifies the name calling, admittedly. Maybe you have too much faith in human beings.

Yeah, I think what many people are forgetting are not that these people are stupid, but they know exactly why they are wrong but choose to ignore it. It's a dogmatic view that many UKIP voters -- and general extreme right-wing -- hold.

They are fully aware migration isn't what's causing their economic plight, but rather gov't policy -- or lack thereof. It's just easier to concentrate their anger on something they can affect, and that's people not of the British origin.