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German Federal Elections 2017 |OT| Electing the new leader of the free world
- Thread starter Xando
- Start date
The main draw for the AfD are immigrants. Only few of their voters care about the other positions of the party.
But it's the same with all the other parties. You won't agree with every idea they have, you make it dependent on what's most important to you. For AfD voters that obviously was immigration. If you hadn't read that party's program, you probably wouldn't even know they have anything else.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Basically, one votes for the AfD, because one is a fucking racist. Since there is no left-wing racist party, even the ones who prefer left policies on other issues may vote for the neoliberal / conservative racist party if they put their racist viewpoints above all else. The CDU/CSU can serve right-wing racists as well, but unter Merkel, not so much, if their racism is particularly important to them.
Benjamin1981
Member
SPD is doing the right thing. They went two times with Merkel and lost big in every subsequent election. There is no way they win back voters if to do a GroKo again. Schulz being super salty in the Berliner Runde was really funny. I like him even if the SPD is not my party of choice.
llien
Member
https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/heute-sendungen/videos/berliner-runde-zur-bundestagswahl-100.html
Ditto.
PS
Looking at Le Pens results and given the huge impact of Merkel's 1 million refugee decision had, Germany isn't doing bad.
Typing that as an immigrant living in Germany.
Well, from what I've found out by talking with people who voted far right (anti-refugees) is that they know about all the bad stuff these parties will bring, but "who else are we going to vote for?". They accept that the bad with the thing they care the most about politically. I'm not German though, so take this with a grain of salt.
ISee
Member
Yeah me too. And his saltines was as funny as CDUs denial that they lost over 1 million voters to the AfD.
Thank you!
ClosingADoor
Member
I see the AfD is keeping the populist tradition alive of stepping out of the party and then cashing in for a few years doing nothing. After not even 24 hours, what a display.
Bedameister
Member
I most worried about the CSU. They're by far the biggest loosers of this election and they're scared shitless. They're going to use the AfD rhetorics to win back right-wing voters and I think they will cause the most problems in the coalition talks.
ISee
Member
.
They already tried to adopt the AfD rethorics though. It obviously didn't work. They need a different tactic and maybe a fresh and younger face.
From their point of view for being able to compete again in 4 years, it is, but they are by far the second-biggest party so people who voted for them also voted to be put in responsibility. They just don't want to have it because they think they will lose even more in the end but that is their will and not what voters wanted.
llien
Member
Every time my wife (an immigrant) was getting haircut, she would hear insane rape stories involving immigrants and various set of victims (stories were changing): young student walking through park raped multiple times by a group, a (heterosexual) couple, a retired women and so on.
On the very election day I kept seeing stuff like "an immigrant with 4 wives and 23 children getting 360'000 Euro per year" (totally made up even if one starts equating total costs for the state with individual's income)
It's a classical FUD campaign, that some inevitably fall for. I'm pretty sure my spouse's friseur did.
Yet, I believe she isn't racist, (from very beginning she's very friendly with us, despite our very evident non-German origin).
And in my humble opinion, Xenophobia (for me it's the same as infamous unconscious bias) has strong biological roots (my kind vs other kinds of people) which is always there, sometimes deep, sometimes not.
When amplified by other factors, such as fear (see above), and or by an attempt to to find external factors to "why is my life so hard", many fall for it. (AfD got 21%+ in Eastern Germany)
With all that said, I do not think dehumanizing AfD voters is the answer (nazi notes in that "human garbage" talks are very scary). I agree with Merkel, that normal political parties should win confused people back.
Is it an actual theory (my google fu failed me) or just a thought?
ISee
Member
Is it? I voted for them and I rather like seeing them being in the opposition then another 4 years of GroKo.
But that could very well also be just my opinion.
llien
Member
Would Jamaica work without CSU?
ISee
Member
Just a strange power play or are they serious?
CSU make about 6% of the CDU/CSU votes. So no.
This would be the end of CSU.
This feels like a déjà-vu, I'm sure I've heard similar utterings from Seehofer in the past. He won't do it.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
No, not enough seats. CDU+SPD would not be sufficient either.
super.modulaire
Neo Member
It would be fun if the CSU would not only exist in Bavaria. According to polls in the past (2015) the CSU could reach up to 15% in Germany.
Not surprising but AfD gains were inversely correlated with immigration :
Similarly, the SPD losses were correlated with the unemployment rate:
Die Linke's vote shifting from older voters who work in manual labour jobs toward a younger professional class:
Finally, some nice graphics on the change in vote for each party:
All from the FT, more here.
Similarly, the SPD losses were correlated with the unemployment rate:
Die Linke's vote shifting from older voters who work in manual labour jobs toward a younger professional class:
Finally, some nice graphics on the change in vote for each party:
All from the FT, more here.
Gen.Grievous
Member
It's simply a protest vote. When you you have two big parties that refuse to acknowledge real problems and demonise those that want to debate them you push people to an extreme third party that they don't really support but who dares to stand up against the ruling elite.
Petry no doubt will land a cushy number as an RT "contributor". Getting paid to spew your noxious shit. Nice.
Salty Rice
Member
I voted SPD and i want them to be the biggest opposition now.
Stop AFD at all costs as a opposition. Its the right decision for them and for the country.
If done right its gonna benefit them and help destroy the AFD over the next years. Another GroKo would change nothing.
I appreciate emotions are high at the moment, and I am not a German resident so I have no way of telling the feelings of Germans, but I am surprised that some of you guys were not expecting this....
You simply can not run the sort of immigration policy (right or wrong) and not expect it to have a impact? it seems to me people voted for the AFD as they were staunchly anti immigration, a lot of their voters are probably not fully aware of their other policies. (UKIP in the UK is a classic example, I would fully expect half of their voters to not have a clue on their other policies, apart from the headline policy) what I do know is attacking people who voted for AFD is never the answer.
Merkel herself even stated she would now listen, well perhaps if she had not been so opposed to some controls to start with this situation would not be happening now
You simply can not run the sort of immigration policy (right or wrong) and not expect it to have a impact? it seems to me people voted for the AFD as they were staunchly anti immigration, a lot of their voters are probably not fully aware of their other policies. (UKIP in the UK is a classic example, I would fully expect half of their voters to not have a clue on their other policies, apart from the headline policy) what I do know is attacking people who voted for AFD is never the answer.
Merkel herself even stated she would now listen, well perhaps if she had not been so opposed to some controls to start with this situation would not be happening now
Chairmanchuck
Member
AfD said to shoot refugee children at the border without any backlash inside the party...
People who vote for a party that doesnt even condemn them are horrible...
No more unified CDU/CSU? That's so Seehofer.
Nah but seriously, he's just trying to appeal to his base and to rattle his sable a bit.
Nah but seriously, he's just trying to appeal to his base and to rattle his sable a bit.
Another GroKo would have decimated them. I don't know any SPD voter in my family of left-leaning treehuggers that wanted yet another four years of compromises and Merkelsploitation. The greens are surely looking towards Jamaica with a certain degree of trepidation. Then again, they can now play tag team kingmaker together with the FDP, which will surely annoy the CDU/CSU to no end during coalition talks.
Must be very disappointing for Stoiber to see what Seehofer has done to CSU.
Not expecting what exactly? The AfD getting into the Bundestag?
Considering the numbers above -- AfD making the most gains in regions the least affected by immigration -- what's the better answer? Reasoning with some of these folks is futile.
Yup.
I doubt that the SPD will deny a possibly coalition with the CDU, if everything else falls flat.
They would get a whole portion of blame for denying a government that worked out during the last 4 years during unstable times.
Jamaica and the big coalition are the only options.
The big red traffic light won't happen, FDP and Linke would never work out. Just imagine coalition talks between them.
Either Jamaica happens or SPD swallows their pride. I don't think anyone wants new elections at this point.
I don't understand why they denied a possible coalition so shortly after the vote.
Should have done it before.
RedSparrows
Member
whatisthisidonteven
ISee
Member
Everybody is calm and relaxed at least where I work. We woke up and went to work, the same procedure as always. We are very far away from the panic and void that hit many us citizen after the us election.
We expected AfD to have a very strong election and for CDU to win. Some of us more left leaning hoped for something else, but we aren't stupid.
We just need a strong democratic party that oppose CDU instead of working together with them and the (meaningless) influence AfD was able to get this time around will start to vanish.
My party had the biggest loose ever and I'm still pretty sure Germany will stay a good, peaceful and worthwhile place to raise my children in the next 4 years. Am I happy about AfD, no. Am I afraid? No of course not.
We expected AfD to have a very strong election and for CDU to win. Some of us more left leaning hoped for something else, but we aren't stupid.
We just need a strong democratic party that oppose CDU instead of working together with them and the (meaningless) influence AfD was able to get this time around will start to vanish.
My party had the biggest loose ever and I'm still pretty sure Germany will stay a good, peaceful and worthwhile place to raise my children in the next 4 years. Am I happy about AfD, no. Am I afraid? No of course not.
Suprised that immigration was going to be a hot topic, it is not about reasoning as such, this has all the signs of the brexit vote in the UK, people who were simply not affected by immigration voting to leave the EU and UKIP...
it looks like a protest vote to me on paper, if as Merkel said that she will now listen to concerns, and she makes changes, I would fully expect the AFD to be decimated in the next election, if she continues with the open door policy it wont go away, and let us not forget anti establishent is the vogue thing at the moment
I mean, it's very unlikely to happen and I don't think it would reflect the mood of the electorate but if CDU and CSU tear themselves apart now, SPD-Linke-Greens-FDP do have a majority of seats and it's ultimately just as many parties as CDU-CSU-Greens-FDP that'd have to come to some sort of agreement.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
The CDU/CSU would have tofuck with the FDP in a collossal way for them to even consider talking to the Left at all. I could imagine them doing at least talking (without any result, of course) in case all other discussions have failed spectacularly, but it would be very risky for the FDP and go against their principles. As a left voter (usually green though), I would be happy about this, but I just cannot see this happening at all.
Well, this here left-leaning treehugger definitely appreciates his efforts, so Stoiber can go suck on a nut.
senile dementia in full swing
llien
Member
Suicide option for FDP, much worse thatn SPD staying in another grand coalition. I could not imagine why they would do that.
Bedameister
Member
Yes, please. I always wanted this to happen.
Will CDU/FDP/Grüne still have a majority for a coalition then?
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
No, but he already took it more or less back.
Bitch Pudding
Member
Seems like the e-mail I sent them had some effect after all.
You can all thank me later.
I love how most politicians criticize the public broadcasting and I agree. It probably is no small portion of people who voted AfD because they were so popular and thematized in media. I completely share Lindners view that one should ignore AfD's provocations and give them no public attention for what they get their voters from: provocations.
Dagobert Duck
Member
And Hermann was right, pointing out, that during the "Berliner Runde" around 30 minutes (or even more were just revolving around AfD or how to deal with AfD, it was hard to watch that and im glad someone pointed that out.
Of course you got to grant them publicity (tv spots or something) but it went really overboard with all the talk about AfD...
Im with Lindner, dont react to provocations
Very happy to see that NRW still has some of the lowest numbers of AFD voters if i interpret this tool correctly
http://wahlatlas.net/btw/17/#!afd17z,jenks
ZIEGE
http://wahlatlas.net/btw/17/#!afd17z,jenks
ZIEGE
Wafflecakes
Member
One of these things is not like the others...
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Right, four of these put only certain groups, neve rmore than half the population, into danger or an uncomfortable situation at the very least, whereas one point puts everyone into danger.