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Gran Turismo 6 - Bathurst trailer

A

amar212

Member
Dead Man said:
How is it a memory issue? How is memory preventing them from changing the samples they have used for the audio?
Click to expand...

RAM and CPU allocation. The sound engine is most probably only a "renderer" that uses available samples as base and renders them in real-time through some algorythm depending on the RPM. Since all sounds (engine, exaust, tyres, wind, spectators, collisions) have to be executed in real-time and have to work in max-load of 7.1 PCM with real-time spatialization - and PS3 have no dedicated audio-processor, everything is done by The Cell - the footprint has to be small as possible due to all other tasks Cell and RSX have to crunch in that same clock-time: 360Hz physics, 15 cars AI, real-time lightning, weather engine, pit crew sequnces, mechanical and visual damage, particles, flames, car and driver animations, 60 frames and up to 1280p resolution... and other 56 things.Load on system is crazy and in order to allocate space for all task I think sound engine was made as the renderer and not an actual real-time sampler that works with sampling files. My speculation of course.
 
P

p3tran

Banned
amar212 said:
I am only concerned about tearing during rain in cockpit (when whipers are on) and it is the first thing I will try when I get the game (okay, second, I have to make few laps of Apricot first).
Click to expand...

if it comes down to tearing/slowdowns being evident only in a full grid, when raining, and from cockpit view only,
then for me personally it will truly be a non-issue. (I dont give a shit about rain/night, and i prefer a full view (hood/bumper) to a partial one (cockpit)).
but if there tearing/slowdown is in other conditions also...........

edit:
about gt sound... guys, I have been saying this for years.. only finite resources inside every box, and when you want to allocate the vast majority for graphics, it just leaves less for everything else....
 
D

Dead Man

Member
amar212 said:
RAM and CPU allocation. The sound engine is most probably only a "renderer" that uses available samples as base and renders them in real-time through some algorythm depending on the RPM. Since all sounds (engine, exaust, tyres, wind, spectators, collisions) have to be executed in real-time and have to work in max-load of 7.1 PCM with real-time spatialization - and PS3 have no dedicated audio-processor, everything is done by The Cell - the footprint has to be small as possible due to all other tasks Cell and RSX have to crunch in that same clock-time: 360Hz physics, 15 cars AI, real-time lightning, weather engine, pit crew sequnces, mechanical and visual damage, particles, flames, car and driver animations, 60 frames and up to 1280p resolution... and other 56 things.Load on system is crazy and in order to allocate space for all task I think sound engine was made as the renderer and not an actual real-time sampler that works with sampling files. My speculation of course.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I would suggest if they are resource limited then they should cut something other than sound quality. It is still a question of resources and intent.

Edit: I still don't understand how it can be a resource problem when a couple of the cars sound great. It seems they need to change their algorithm or samples or something more than have more resources. I know bugger all about writing/designing games, but if other games can have great car sounds and great graphics, I don't see why GT can't. They don't need to be more detailed sounds, just different ones.
 
B

BruiserBear

Banned
Dead Man said:
Interesting. I would suggest if they are resource limited then they should cut something other than sound quality. It is still a question of resources and intent.

Edit: I still don't understand how it can be a resource problem when a couple of the cars sound great. It seems they need to change their algorithm or samples or something more than have more resources. I know bugger all about writing/designing games, but if other games can have great car sounds and great graphics, I don't see why GT can't. They don't need to be more detailed sounds, just different ones.
Click to expand...

Your comment about other cars sounding great is valid. I do not believe system resources have anything to do with this. It's simply not a priority for Polyphony at the moment.
 
M

Mr_Appleby

Member
amar212 said:
RAM and CPU allocation. The sound engine is most probably only a "renderer" that uses available samples as base and renders them in real-time through some algorythm depending on the RPM. Since all sounds (engine, exaust, tyres, wind, spectators, collisions) have to be executed in real-time and have to work in max-load of 7.1 PCM with real-time spatialization - and PS3 have no dedicated audio-processor, everything is done by The Cell - the footprint has to be small as possible due to all other tasks Cell and RSX have to crunch in that same clock-time: 360Hz physics, 15 cars AI, real-time lightning, weather engine, pit crew sequnces, mechanical and visual damage, particles, flames, car and driver animations, 60 frames and up to 1280p resolution... and other 56 things.Load on system is crazy and in order to allocate space for all task I think sound engine was made as the renderer and not an actual real-time sampler that works with sampling files. My speculation of course.
Click to expand...

do you mean synthesizer? because otherwise you're saying it doesn't use samples, it uses samples. as a musician and audio programmer i therefore have no idea what you're talking about.

using an algorithm to alter playback of base samples is essentially wavetable synthesis anyway. they could modify the existing sounds with no performance impact by replacing the wavetables and/or tuning the algorithm's modifiers.
 
J

JP

Member
BloodMoney said:
The entire upper section of the mountain is spectacular. Once you crest the highest point, the winding road and blind corners leading to the downhill straight, are unbelievably fun to drive. The car is on the edge through the entire section... The track exists in my mind as 3 distinct sections. You've got the initial hill climb, the upper technical section, and then the decent from the mountain (where you can finally exhale and relax for a moment before the onslaught begins again).

My favorite tracks are:
#1 - The 24hr Nurburgring (including the Nordschleife)
#2 - Bathurst
#3 - Spa

I am also not particularly blown away by La Sarth... too few corners, no elevation change.
Click to expand...
La Sarth is one of the blandest tracks I've played, it's right to be included in games because of the history but it's just not very good.
 
Neo 007

Neo 007

Member
Hoping,with Bathurst next weekend PD will represent with some playable "kiosks" as they did at Goodwood.
 
S

SolidSnakex

Member
I think this is the first video of drifting in GT6

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2NG1AQSeng

Impressions from the drivers (LVracerGT from GTplanet)

Yes, it was on the Thrustmaster T500. That build of GT6 was some of the best physics I have experienced. The dynamics of the car feel completely new. If you watch closely in that video at 2:34 when the car transitions during the switchback you can actually see the body roll go from one side to the other and you can see the suspension squat or "plant" before rebounding and stabilizing.

The car actually felt heavy through the wheel. Even though that run was relatively smooth, I felt like I was wrestling the car the whole time. But when I was in the GT86 for example, it was much easier to throw the car and it felt more responsive. In other words, heavier cars feel heavy but in an entirely new way with the way weight transition and suspension is modeled.

That run was also on Comfort Hards, and man let me tell you how good the new tire physics feel. The forward bite is so much better, it no longer feels like you're on ice. The grip loss when the car gets sideways feels amazing. One of the coolest things was being out on track during the GT Academy and going back into racecamp and practicing techniques you just learned and having it feel near identical.
Click to expand...
 
M

Metalmurphy

Member
yayvopre.png


REJOICE!
 
A

amar212

Member
Mr_Appleby said:
do you mean synthesizer? because otherwise you're saying it doesn't use samples, it uses samples. as a musician and audio programmer i therefore have no idea what you're talking about.

using an algorithm to alter playback of base samples is essentially wavetable synthesis anyway. they could modify the existing sounds with no performance impact by replacing the wavetables and/or tuning the alpgorithm's modifiers.
Click to expand...

Yes, synthesizer should be the right word, thank you.
 
B

BloodMoney

Banned
Dead Man said:
Interesting. I would suggest if they are resource limited then they should cut something other than sound quality. It is still a question of resources and intent.
Click to expand...
Yea... sound is an integral part of automotive enthusiasm. I'm far more interested in killer audio in GT6 than I am in say... 3D trees.
 
N

nib95

Banned
saladine1 said:
Has anyone got a list of the new to GT6 features and stuff?
Click to expand...

Just check out this thread here.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=557992

I don't think all the stuff has been announced yet, but so far it's: (most just copied and pasted from Amar's thread.)

• A new rendering engine (50x dynamic range, better lighting)
• Adaptive Tesselation
• New Physics Engine
• New suspension and kinematics model
• New tyre model
• New aerodynamics model
• Technical partnership with Yokohama Rubber and KW Automotive
• Lots of new cars and a massive range of new custom parts.
• From historic cars to the latest racing cars, the game contains a total of 1200 cars.
• Multiple aerodynamic parts and custom wheels will be available for almost all cars.
• New car customisation and mod options.
• Standard cars all re-textured.
• Sound effects improved.
• Several new tracks.
• 7 new locations and 19 more layouts over GT5.
• New Course Maker.
• Massive scenery spanning several tens of square kilometers.
• A new course generation algorithm.
• GPS course building.
• New online framework with Community/Club/Race Organizer.
• Players can form their own communities.
• Various community levels from local and domestic to global.
• Players themselves can create and manage their own online events.
• New User Interface.
• Quick response.
• Shortening of loading times.
• Multi Device Compatibility.
 
B

BloodMoney

Banned
nib95 said:
• A new rendering engine (50x dynamic range, better lighting)
• Adaptive Tesselation
• New Physics Engine
• New suspension and kinematics model
• New tyre model
• New aerodynamics model
• Technical partnership with Yokohama Rubber and KW Automotive
• Lots of new cars and a massive range of new custom parts.
• From historic cars to the latest racing cars, the game contains a total of 1200 cars.
• Multiple aerodynamic parts and custom wheels will be available for almost all cars.
• New car customisation and mod options.
• Standard cars all re-textured.
• Sound effects improved.
• Several new tracks.
• 7 new locations and 19 more layouts over GT5.
• New Course Maker.
• Massive scenery spanning several tens of square kilometers.
• A new course generation algorithm.
• GPS course building.
• New online framework with Community/Club/Race Organizer.
• Players can form their own communities.
• Various community levels from local and domestic to global.
• Players themselves can create and manage their own online events.
• New User Interface.
• Quick response
• Shortening of loading times
• Multi Device Compatibility
Click to expand...

I don't see E30 & E36 BMW M3's in that list... *fist shake!!!
 
S

SolidSnakex

Member
First Bathrust gameplay video (it's still processing, so only a 480p version is available right now)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_nL-PiGt84

Here are the impressions from the person that posted the video (Flunkus from GTplanet)

The wheel was their standard G27 set up. Very light on the FF, disappointing and definitely made it a bit tougher as I'm used to cranking the wheel weight up.

Assists were not modifiable, you were only given the choice of a few cars.. none of which new.. and between Automatic or Manual transmission (you could use the stick shift but I used the paddles)

I was a bit shaky on the rig because I like the resistance of my T500 at home, so the wheel felt as light as a feather and led to some hairy corrections.. but basically my impressions were:

-Much more unforgiving than GT5 in the overall physics. Cars were harder to catch, would go into slides that felt totally different than what I've experienced in past GT games.

-In keeping with the unforgiving nature, cars seemed to react a great deal more violently to upsets such as hitting a kerb or going over a hill at speed. This made 'The Chase' at Mt Panorama extremely difficult in the Z4 GT3 and I'll admit I spun out both laps there. Locking the brakes seemed to have more dire consequences as well, cars seemed to carry a lot more speed under locked tyres.

-The sound was definitely not the new engine we've been hearing of. Sounded much the same as GT5. Nowhere near the likes of the Bathurst Trailer.

-This could be me, but (playing in interior view, of course) the other cars seemed a lot 'larger' in a realistic way. I really felt starved for space on the track which led to a very exciting top portion of the track. Constantly having to be mindful of the location of other cars and having to give way quite a lot to avoid an incident. Mt. Panorama is a tight track up the top of the mountain, so it could be a perspective thing.. but I definitely felt 'closer' to the cars than in previous titles.


As for a comparison to iRacing, I'd say it felt much closer. I know I might have been a bit rusty but that car was a handful. I did get away with some open-throttle corners that I would have been put 6ft under for in iRacing, so it's not quite there.. but it's quite a job keeping a race car facing forward with all tyres in grip, especially at speed.

As I said before going down Conrod Straight (A 300 km/h downhill straight with a slight kink before what is basically a chicane called The Chase, as I also mentioned before) is an incredibly hairy experience. Because I've never done that in a GT game before, there's nothing to compare it to.. but I really feel if it was GT5 the car would have stuck to the track like glue. In this demo I could feel the car lifting up over the hills and hitting that kerb in the 'kink' upset my car enough to over correct and send me flying into the grass on locked tyres.
Click to expand...
 
S

SolidSnakex

Member
More impressions from Flunkus

It's really hard to give a solid answer without having a racing background and only having two nervous laps under my belt. If you look over at my YT channel there is a video of my driving it in my normal road car, I'll tell you the track feels a lot bigger when you're on it.

But that is highly likely a product of me driving it in a mid-size Hyundai at 60 km/h rather than a GT3 car at 100. I've raced Bathurst on rFactor, GRiD, Project CARS and Simbin's 'RaceRoom' game and I'll say that Polyphony's version is easily better than rFactor's and GRiD's.. and I'm going to say it beats Simbin's and CARS's too. The attention to detail of the scenery and landmarks (as someone who has visited the track multiple times in real life) and even most of the signage is spot on and the road-side buildings look like they've been given the same love and care as those at Silverstone.

Mt. Panorama is a public road and therefore has houses and farms dotted along it, and I'm not entirely sure those are present but I doubt even iRacing will be able to include things like that.

The big drop at Skyline where the track starts to go downhill again is scary as hell, as it should be. Even going down that thing at legal-speed is unnerving.
Click to expand...
 
U

Undercover Opulent

Banned
I'm feeling more and more excited for this game. PD is managing great right now. I hope they improve on the menus.

Also, someone said motorcycles will be in this game.. Is that even remotely true?
 
W

Wax Free Vanilla

Member
Making the best motorcycle game in the world is my dream.

Gran Trurismo Explore Studio
Polyphony Digital

June 2013 – Present (5 months) Tokyo, Japan
Click to expand...

iTDHrGX7QzXtm.gif



In Kaz We Trust.


Polyphony had bikes at their laser scanning session in Italy.

Matterhorn (new GT6 track) has grid markings for bikes.

Kaz in his Game Informer interview started giggling when quizzed about Tourist Trophy returning in GT6.

Eurogamer posted photos of Polyphony's modelling department - bikes.

Shichisawa back at Polyphony seals the deal.

Bikes in GT6 confirmed.

What's the crack with the Moto GP license?
 
M

MaDKaT

Member
I have been out of the loop but there is real evidence for motorcycles possibly being included in GT6? I've read Kaz being coy with the question but pictures or first hand knowledge of current modeling? AMAZING!!! Loved TT and have been eagerly awaiting their inclusion since the GT:HD menu shot that showed a couple bikes
 
R

Red Chocobo

Banned
amar212 said:
No, not a single smallest one.
Click to expand...

Wasn't there a Kaz interview recently where someone asked him about bikes, and he smiled and mentioned about the game having lots of DLC?

I'll have a hunt for it.

Not to mention there being a bunch of bikes at their scanning session. Probably the most obvious hint right there.
 
J

jizzlobber

Member
I saw it running tonight at EB expo in Sydney.

i'm not going to worry about gameplay and all that, i'm not the person to go into that.
but I can say the framerate is REALLY inconsistent, sometimes it's smooth enough but it often goes to shit, especially when you add a bit of tyre smoke into the equation... it's all over the place in general.

all i'm saying is don't get too excited after watching that snazzy trailer, it's stuttery, it's shimmery and there are no V8 supercars.
 
A

amar212

Member
He asked about real evidence of bikes in GT6 and to be honest we don't have any.

Having bikes on GT:HD pictures and playable bikes and cars on the same track during E3 2006 GT:HD presentation was the greatest imaginable "evidence" we will get something like that in GT5. We all know how that finished :)
 
S

Skunkers

Member
Farrow said:
Wasn't there a Kaz interview recently where someone asked him about bikes, and he smiled and mentioned about the game having lots of DLC?

I'll have a hunt for it.

Not to mention there being a bunch of bikes at their scanning session. Probably the most obvious hint right there.
Click to expand...

If I remember correctly his exact quote when asked was "(laughter) I can't say no". Don't have a link though. Not a lock yet but seems extremely likely with the other evidence, at least as DLC if not in at launch. About time really, I'd much rather have bikes than karts, and I think that goes for the majority of people.
 
P

p3tran

Banned
jizzlobber said:
I saw it running tonight at EB expo in Sydney.

i'm not going to worry about gameplay and all that, i'm not the person to go into that.
but I can say the framerate is REALLY inconsistent, sometimes it's smooth enough but it often goes to shit, especially when you add a bit of tyre smoke into the equation... it's all over the place in general.

all i'm saying is don't get too excited after watching that snazzy trailer, it's stuttery, it's shimmery and there are no V8 supercars.
Click to expand...

oh man.. I need you to be wrong on the framerate thing...
 
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