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[neondriver]

:lol Good grief. It's been nearly a year since TGS and you honestly believe they have nothing else done with GT5 other than those 2 cars models?

Was the video shown at TGS showing ingame graphics of the actual game?

 

[ourumov]

I am sure PD is developing a real sequel to Gt4 but well just think in the ammount of money, human resources and time needed for such a big project...On the other hand, Sony is pushing Yamauchi to release something in the fastest time possible. Result=Updated GT4.

It's a matter of time and pressure rather than PD not being able to do better or wanting to profit from their fans.

Yamauchi has always been pretty honest regarding what he wanted to do and how he wanted to do it. Unless you bring to the discussion the GT4 online mode or the damage model which has always lacked in the GT4 series.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Was the video shown at TGS showing ingame graphics of the actual game?

Yep they even had them running over GT4 courses because they hadn't completed any at that time. Those were the only 2 models they'd finished for the game.

 

[neondriver]

Yep they even had them running over GT4 courses because they hadn't completed any at that time. Those were the only 2 models they'd finished for the game.

Great, those cars were looking pretty awesome!
I just wished they would concentrate on GT5 instead of this GTHD shit...

 

[Luckyman]

Well.. if they have GT4 photomode running 60fps @ 1080p @ TGS. Should be pretty sweet.

 

[Zaptruder]

The audio team is probably re-recording the engine sounds to the full extent now that they have blue ray

They better be recorded on dynos this time around.

Apparently the reason GT sound is so flat is because they only bothered recording the sound of the engine running up from neutral, where as other racing games do it running on a dyno, so they can get the sounds from all gears.

C'mon PD! WE CAN TELL! And it can't be *that* expensive to lug around a portable dyno trailer.

 

[Zaptruder]

Great, those cars were looking pretty awesome!
I just wished they would concentrate on GT5 instead of this GTHD shit...

The work they do on GTHD is going to be incorporated into GT5, so it's far from a waste of time.

If PD aren't going to release GT5 by the end of 2007, then releasing this in the interim isn't that bad an idea. What's the worst it could do? a couple hundred thousand, and basically all they had to do was use recycled assets; stick in the bikes, stick in online component and use the data from that to improve GT5 online, and redo some menus.

It's also possible that they'd tighten up some of the gameplay and use it as a testbed for GT5 AI and physics (except for damage physics).

 

[pswii60]

:lol to the person who said at least it's playable unlike Forza 2! You can play 'FORZA HD" now on your Xbox 360, just get a copy of Forza and stick it in your 360 :lol

 

[gogogow]

Which all can be summed up with this

No, it cannot.

If GTHD was really only meant for E3 2006, why would they release new screens every now and then, having Famitsu coverages and stated during E3 that it was 20% complete and Kaz himself talking too much about this so-called "E3 2006 Only demo".

He said, that the next GT game will be released shortly after the PS3 launch and now he says that GT5 is in it's early stages, so how can he release it?

He's talking about making this transitional version of GT.
Why would they be developing a transitional version of GT if it won't turn into a game, just for themselves? Shouldn't this GTHD be done, if it was only meant for E3 2006??????

He makes it sounds that this GTHD will be something like GT4: Prologue. A taste of the next true iteration of the GT series:

"but in this transitional version, I think you'll get a taste of the potential that next generation games hold."

Yamauchi said the idea for the game actually came from an unlikely source, the Photo Mode in GT4, which allowed players to take high resolution stills. "I thought it would be incredible to see these stills animated in real time," he said.

I still hope it's some kind of mistranslation though.....
TGS can't come soon enough, if they show this GTHD again, which was supposed to be made for E3 2006 only, then we can be certain that it will be released as a game.

 

[Zaptruder]

:lol to the person who said at least it's playable unlike Forza 2! You can play 'FORZA HD" now on your Xbox 360, just get a copy of Forza and stick it in your 360 :lol

You can also play GT4 in HD on your PS2.

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

I think we can assume it is indeed going to be a game...

Anyway, I hope they give it preinstalled in every HDD...or by a small transaction (5-10$) to give Sony Online system a big bump.

 

[Hiro_Kunimi_80]

You can also play GT4 in HD on your PS2.

it's FAKE 1080i for GT4 on ps2 sorry

 

[OatmealMu]

 

[Mmmkay]

it's FAKE 1080i for GT4 on ps2 sorry

I think that was his point. Given that Xbox Forza played on the 360 is just upscaled 480p (not 'Forza:HD'), whereas GranTurismo:HD was high resolution assets rendered at 1080p. If you want to call it Forza:HD when played on the 360, then you may as well be calling GT4's 1080i mode GT4:HD. Neither of which is in any way similar to what GT:HD does.

 

[neondriver]

The work they do on GTHD is going to be incorporated into GT5, so it's far from a waste of time.

If PD aren't going to release GT5 by the end of 2007, then releasing this in the interim isn't that bad an idea. What's the worst it could do? a couple hundred thousand, and basically all they had to do was use recycled assets; stick in the bikes, stick in online component and use the data from that to improve GT5 online, and redo some menus.

You seem to have a pretty naive impression of porting (and upgrading) a game to another platform. It's not as easy as you might think.
If they can reuse some information for GT5, it's still a very big waste of time and will pull GT5 back a few months (if you think that it doesn't matter at all you must be crazy).
And I don't care for how much this shit could sell. I just want a mind blowing GT5 and not an upgraded last gen GT4 port.

 

[Zaptruder]

You seem to have a pretty naive impression of porting (and upgrading) a game to another platform. It's not as easy as you might think.
If they can reuse some information for GT5, it's still a very big waste of time and will pull GT5 back a few months (if you think that it doesn't matter at all you must be crazy).
And I don't care for how much this shit could sell. I just want a mind blowing GT5 and not an upgraded last gen GT4 port.

Naieve? how so?

They've still got to build the actual rendering engine for the PS3; the PS2 and PS3 architecture aren't alike.

But that's one of the steps they have to make to reach GT5; GTHD is the result of that step.

Essentially it's primary purpose is to serve as a test bed for all the new technologies they're planning on incorporating into GT5; not just the code itself, but how well the features work.

So online, new physics, new AI can all be tested with GTHD, if its something they have ready.

All that stuff is generally independent of how many shaders or polygons or how high the texture res is, but at the same time critical to a good driving game.

Even if they don't necessarily reuse the code from GTHD in GT5, the process of developing and the feedback they recieve from the public on the new features will help them a lot in how they make GT5.

Sure, they could just go straight into GT5, but then they'd be spending a lot of resources and doing a lot of new things; not knowing how those things will turn out or be recieved until after its released.

 

[bud]

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6156575.html

Polyphony Digital head Kazunori Yamauchi spoke about the next Gran Turismo title in the latest issue of Weekly Famitsu. There were two points of interest in the article. First, the parenthetical "working title" has been dropped from the name, implying that Gran Turismo HD is indeed the final title. Second, while Yamauchi lavished praise on the game's high-definition graphics, he stated that the game was not the true next-gen heir to the popular racing series' crown.

In the article, Yamauchi called Gran Turismo HD a "port" of the data from Gran Turismo 4, upgraded to take advantage of the PlayStation 3's graphical capabilities. He also said it is "a step in the process of developing a next-generation GT game."

Yamauchi also implied that development on that next-gen game is already underway, albeit at an early stage. "We are working on a version of GT that supports the full PS3 specification," Yamauchi said, adding, "but in this transitional version, I think you'll get a taste of the potential that next generation games hold."

Yamauchi said the idea for the game actually came from an unlikely source, the Photo Mode in GT4, which allowed players to take high resolution stills. "I thought it would be incredible to see these stills animated in real time," he said. Running at 60 frames per second in 1920x1080p resolution, Gran Turismo HD supports the very highest resolutions available to Japan's newest HD televisions, according to Famitsu.

---------

Now shut the hell up already.

GTHD is a port of GT4, as stated from the horse's mouth right to your asshole.

so basically it's a game and it's coming out.

 

[bud]

:lol to the person who said at least it's playable unlike Forza 2! You can play 'FORZA HD" now on your Xbox 360, just get a copy of Forza and stick it in your 360 :lol

but it won't be running at 1080p - 60fps.

 

[Zaptruder]

it's FAKE 1080i for GT4 on ps2 sorry

Ok, so it's 540 or some such, but all the same, a facetious comment deserves one in kind. (Including my own!)

 

[Mmmkay]

so basically it's a game and it's coming out.

I've given up hope now. It does sound like it'll come out, but only in the same way that we had those GT Concept/Prologue releases, as an interim to hold us over until they pull their fingers out for GT5.

Someone at B3D pointed out that Kaz actually said something to the effect of "the PS3 will be the first Playstation platform with a GT released soon after the launch period" at E3. That's not going to happen with a fully fledged GT game.

 

[bud]

I've given up hope now. It does sound like it'll come out, but only in the same way that we had those GT Concept/Prologue releases, as an interim to hold us over until they pull their fingers out for GT5.

Someone at B3D pointed out that Kaz actually said something to the effect of "the PS3 will be the first Playstation platform with a GT released soon after the launch period" at E3. That's not going to happen with a fully fledged GT game.

if they do release it, then it has to be <$30,-

 

[elostyle]

It will be GT:HD with upgraded graphical assets (backgrounds, cars..). But not GT5.



Why are you comparing a techdemo to a final product?

What do you think GT5 is going to be? Exactly that. And once they are done updating everything and adding maybe a new lightning model, we'll all lap it up.

 

[DCharlie]

so... does this point to no/limited B/C enhancements for PS2 games?

is my fantasy of SotC with no slow down and sexy upscaled graphics dead?

 

[SolidSnakex]

No, it cannot.

If GTHD was really only meant for E3 2006, why would they release new screens every now and then, having Famitsu coverages and stated during E3 that it was 20% complete and Kaz himself talking too much about this so-called "E3 2006 Only demo".

I'm saying everything he said shortly after the E3 demo and during the E3 demo pointed toward it just being that, an E3 demo. And again even the sites (and this Famitsu issue) posting these screens are pointing out that its an E3 only demo and that Sony has said that the GT they release on the PS3 will far exceed that demo. So you've got talk going both ways and until someone just asks Kaz point blank if GTHD is going to become a real game its hard to know for sure whats going on.

But if it is, i'd be much happier with it if it uses the updated models from the TGS Vision GT demo, not the GT5 cars but the others cars. Here's the trailer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llNuRTYy_cA

Now its still an enhanced version of GT4, but the car models have improved (3D rims for example) lighting is much better (HDR) ect. Toss in online play and it'd be worth it.

 

[gofreak]

so... does this point to no/limited B/C enhancements for PS2 games?

is my fantasy of SotC with no slow down and sexy upscaled graphics dead?

You'll get your upscaled graphics*, but beyond that it's anyone's guess. I wouldn't expect more than that if it's a pure hardware solution, as may be the case. PSone games may be a different matter, if they're software emulated (at least they may then render natively at HD versus being upscaled).

*Having a game upscaled versus a game natively rendering at HD is different (the latter is better), so there'd still be a point to something like GT:HD..at least relative to what you can do with BC.

 

[RuGalz]

Ship it with online mode! I miss GT4 Online beta.

 

[DCharlie]

You'll get your upscaled graphics*, but beyond that it's anyone's guess. I wouldn't expect more than that if it's a pure hardware solution, as may be the case. PSone games may be a different matter, if they're software emulated (at least they may then render natively at HD versus being upscaled).

*Having a game upscaled versus a game natively rendering at HD is different (the latter is better), so there'd still be a point to something like GT:HD..at least relative to what you can do with BC.

well, to be honest, as others are mentioned - there are a couple of games i seriously wouldn't mind getting the "PS3 directors cut" treatment. SotC is one of them, not sure about GT:HD to be honest - the original was a great slice of PS2 lovely, but SotC (as great as it is) could benefit for a better frame rate, cleaner textures, etc...

guess we'll see what happens.

ship GT:HD with PSP GT!!
PSP GT could be the machines killer app, but as mentioned elsewhere i seriously doubt it exists round about now.

 

[Jonnyram]

is my fantasy of SotC with no slow down and sexy upscaled graphics dead?

No. They're gonna release SotC HD while they're working on Trico.

 

[pswii60]

but it won't be running at 1080p - 60fps.

Oh, come on, that wasn't the point! Get the joke, bud.

 

[J-Rzez]

Of course they're gonna release this... afterall, we won't see the TRUE next GT for another 2-years likely knowing Polyphony's snail pace... But eh, as long as it brings back that feeling of a prior GT like Meltpotato said, then fine... It's gonna take a while, especially cause KY's a perfectionist, and adding in damage, AND adding in all the new posibilities the new hardware brings, anyone expecting a new TRUE GT within 1, or even 2 years is going to be sad...

They'll release GT:HD just to hold some ppl over... Throwing in the bikes from TT, online likely, more cars on track, sharper graphics, this and that... but it's still just a placeholder for the GT-series till the next real one is released...

But I think I remember reading on that GT-planet forums, or B3D, or something, that Polyphony was one of, if not the first dev house to start getting the new PS3 Dev kits... So, if that's the case, they have some time under their belts... but still, 2-3 for the real next GT... and it better rock that KY doesn't have as many "hardware" limitations now... but, I have faith in the guy... Every GT was great...

 

[Big Takeover]

EDIT: J-Rzez stole my thoughts

GT4 + Tourist Trophy + Online with support for Sony's service + Native 1080p + Budget price

While it wouldn't blow anyone away, it would still be decent piece of software. If you are a fan of the series, this is a whole lot better than having nothing while you wait for GT5. No?

It won't sell millions of copies, nor too many PS3s, but it's not really designed to.

 

[lynux3]

I thought this game was just a prototype? Last time I checked, atleast:

http://presscenter.playstation.com/login.aspx?ReturnUrl=/Pages.aspx?id=35&id=35

At this year’s E3 2006, I am excited to provide you a glimpse of our vision for Gran Turismo® by showcasing the technological capabilities of PLAYSTATION®3 with a special playable demo titled “Gran Turismo HD”. Please note that this product does not represent an official product and is merely a prototype.

The wait for the next generation of Gran Turismo, post launch of PS3, may not be as long as you think.

...maybe SCE changed their mind? This may be the Gran Turismo game that was rumoured to be going online a little while ago? I would probably buy it since I've been wanting an online Gran Turismo for years now.

 

[bud]

Oh, come on, that wasn't the point! Get the joke, bud.

but it wasn't funny.

 

[Animal]

I have said it many times before and I'll say it again. PD needs to get their act together and fast. I am a huge Gran Turismo fan. I play their games almost every day. I used to think that they had the physics down until I got a 360 and pgr3. There is a KEY difference in the driving physics in the two games and that is cornering speed. In GT physics, you are either braking or your are on the throttle there is no "I have the right speed already and i'm just going to coast through so i can get on the trottle early" like in PGR3. PGR3 really got that feeling right though i feel it might be a bit on the forgiving side. GT is just a nonstop orgy of gas/brake/gas/brake/gas...and so on. I have spent some time comparing both games in driving physics and I have come to this conclusion. If i try to coast into a turn at what should be the correct speed, the GT cars tend to understeer and only correct themselves if i get on the throttle or slow down even more. To coast into the turn in GT, I must slow down to a speed much slower than what the car can actually do. It's as though the weight displacement in the cars in GT has too great an effect than should be.

That is my main squabble with the GT driving. They have some catch-up to do with respect to PGR3 in driving physics which i never thought i'd ever say. I always thought GT was the pinnacle of automobile racing simulations.

Side notefor GT5: PD, nobody wants to tilt the bloody controler to steer the car so don't even think about it.
Also, Please get rid of the blender/power drill/grass trimmer thing you'r using to make engine sounds and do what everyone else is doing, GET THE REAL SOUNDS ok? The sounds in PGR3 are quite impressive and make the experience much much much more enjoyable. I like to hear my ferrari whine, i like to hear my mercedes rumble. I like to hear the car slicing through the air. I want to hear the tires flex under hard braking. I want to hear the car rattle. I want to hear the driver shifting and hitting the pedals.
Actually, if you guys were really the pinnacle, you would record the transmission whinning seperately from the engine note and use them both seperately in game. I'd also like to hear the driver breathing heavily when the driving gets a bit crazy and on the edge or when i crash. How about having the drivers ahead of you looking in their mirrors once in a while to see who's behind them?

Oh ya, one more thing, get your AI right before doing anything else. I dont care if the game turns out looking like gt4, i want to race, i dont want to drive around brainless obstacles.

There I think I'm done. I feel much better now.

 

[momolicious]

physics improvement, sound improvement

 

[Luckyman]

In GT physics, you are either braking or your are on the throttle

What? I don't think so.

PGR3 is complete arcade. GT not so much.

 

[gogogow]

I'm saying everything he said shortly after the E3 demo and during the E3 demo pointed toward it just being that, an E3 demo. And again even the sites (and this Famitsu issue) posting these screens are pointing out that its an E3 only demo and that Sony has said that the GT they release on the PS3 will far exceed that demo. So you've got talk going both ways and until someone just asks Kaz point blank if GTHD is going to become a real game its hard to know for sure whats going on.

But if it is, i'd be much happier with it if it uses the updated models from the TGS Vision GT demo, not the GT5 cars but the others cars. Here's the trailer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llNuRTYy_cA

Now its still an enhanced version of GT4, but the car models have improved (3D rims for example) lighting is much better (HDR) ect. Toss in online play and it'd be worth it.

Damn, Kaz really needs to talk now. Cos we had this discussion before and we ain't goin' nowhere.

I have seen that trailer during TGS. I'm not really against GTHD (ofcourse GT5 would be way better), but I was dissapointed that GTHD didn't had much of the vision GT upgraded graphics. There was no HDR, only 12 cars and they need to bump up the texture resolution. Kaz said that they were using the high-quality data for GTHD, but I can't really see it in the E3 version.
Then, if they really release GTHD with those enhancements, I will probably buy it.

 

[Zaptruder]

I have said it many times before and I'll say it again. PD needs to get their act together and fast. I am a huge Gran Turismo fan. I play their games almost every day. I used to think that they had the physics down until I got a 360 and pgr3. There is a KEY difference in the driving physics in the two games and that is cornering speed. In GT physics, you are either braking or your are on the throttle there is no "I have the right speed already and i'm just going to coast through so i can get on the trottle early" like in PGR3. PGR3 really got that feeling right though i feel it might be a bit on the forgiving side. GT is just a nonstop orgy of gas/brake/gas/brake/gas...and so on. I have spent some time comparing both games in driving physics and I have come to this conclusion. If i try to coast into a turn at what should be the correct speed, the GT cars tend to understeer and only correct themselves if i get on the throttle or slow down even more. To coast into the turn in GT, I must slow down to a speed much slower than what the car can actually do. It's as though the weight displacement in the cars in GT has too great an effect than should be.

That is my main squabble with the GT driving. They have some catch-up to do with respect to PGR3 in driving physics which i never thought i'd ever say. I always thought GT was the pinnacle of automobile racing simulations.

Side notefor GT5: PD, nobody wants to tilt the bloody controler to steer the car so don't even think about it.
Also, Please get rid of the blender/power drill/grass trimmer thing you'r using to make engine sounds and do what everyone else is doing, GET THE REAL SOUNDS ok? The sounds in PGR3 are quite impressive and make the experience much much much more enjoyable. I like to hear my ferrari whine, i like to hear my mercedes rumble. I like to hear the car slicing through the air. I want to hear the tires flex under hard braking. I want to hear the car rattle. I want to hear the driver shifting and hitting the pedals.
Actually, if you guys were really the pinnacle, you would record the transmission whinning seperately from the engine note and use them both seperately in game. I'd also like to hear the driver breathing heavily when the driving gets a bit crazy and on the edge or when i crash. How about having the drivers ahead of you looking in their mirrors once in a while to see who's behind them?

Oh ya, one more thing, get your AI right before doing anything else. I dont care if the game turns out looking like gt4, i want to race, i dont want to drive around brainless obstacles.

There I think I'm done. I feel much better now.

Get yourself the DFP Pro wheel and learn to drive.

PGR3 uses arcadey mechanics. Gran Turismo, for all its flaws is much more of a simulator then PGR3 ever will be (at least the driving model), both in intent and execution.

 

[Rice-Eater]

Damn, Kaz really needs to talk now. Cos we had this discussion before and we ain't goin' nowhere.

I have seen that trailer during TGS. I'm not really against GTHD (ofcourse GT5 would be way better), but I was dissapointed that GTHD didn't had much of the vision GT upgraded graphics. There was no HDR, only 12 cars and they need to bump up the texture resolution. Kaz said that they were using the high-quality data for GTHD, but I can't really see it in the E3 version.
Then, if they really release GTHD with those enhancements, I will probably buy it.

Agreed, if GT:HD is really happening, I hope it more like Vision GT then the GT:HD we got at E3. GT:HD really was just GT4 in 1080p while Vision GT looked like a heavily upgraded last gen game(a la Splinter Cell: DA).

 

[Wulfer]

Get yourself the DFP Pro wheel and learn to drive.

PGR3 uses arcadey mechanics. Gran Turismo, for all its flaws is much more of a simulator then PGR3 ever will be (at least the driving model), both in intent and execution.

You didn't just say that! GT4 is more of a bumper car simulator than anything. Atleast PG3 makes you react so you don't hit another car!

 

[Mobius 1]

I have said it many times before and I'll say it again. PD needs to get their act together and fast. I am a huge Gran Turismo fan. I play their games almost every day. I used to think that they had the physics down until I got a 360 and pgr3. There is a KEY difference in the driving physics in the two games and that is cornering speed.

:lol

Indeed - GT aims to be a simulation, PGR is an arcade racer that toss realism out of the window.

 

[Raistlin]

Sony I hate you so mcuh sometimes I just want to cut my self...

Stop wasting time and money on this pos.

u must be blind.

How many times must the reasoning for this title be gone over? Wasting time and money?!!? :lol

 

[RaijinFY]

Posted on B3D by One:

That Gamespot link is a strange interpretation, since what Famitsu reports is basically the content of the GT:HD section of the GT official web site which has been there since E3 2006. Title finalization is also ridiculous, it's not a product title and noted so in the article. As for using GT4 photomode assets, I posted the story about it a while ago.

Anyway, just from the footnotes in
http://www.jp.playstation.com/scej/title/ps3/
and
http://www.jp.playstation.com/scej/title/gt_ps3/
I can almost confirm the next GT product (the title of the game to be exhibited at TGS is "Gran Turismo Series" in the list, not GT:HD) on PS3 is not GT:HD for sure.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Posted on B3D by One:

So in other words Gamespot f'd up the translation and its really not a game just as Kaz said back a few months ago?

 

[Animal]

What? I don't think so.

PGR3 is complete arcade. GT not so much.

Yes I am very aware of that and thats why I why I am very bothered by what I have come to realise. Yes PGR3 is more fun/arcadey, but it made me realise what was missing in GT physics: Cornering grip.

Get yourself the DFP Pro wheel and learn to drive.

PGR3 uses arcadey mechanics. Gran Turismo, for all its flaws is much more of a simulator then PGR3 ever will be (at least the driving model), both in intent and execution.

I am not dishing 179.99+tx for a video game steering wheel. Sorry, ill just grab the keys to the cars we own and I'll go for the real deal (which arn't your average car I might add but I dont wan't to get into that here). I doubt I need to learn to drive given my experience. I karted growing up in all types of karts including 125cc rotax shifter karts. I participate in all kinds of track events here in Quebec due to my dads previous job and his contacts. I dont want to get into details cauz its way off subject but i felt i needed to give my opinion some credibility. If you wanna know more, just pm me.

Yes, as i stated in the beginning of this post, I am very aware of the intent and execution of GT and PGR3. That is why I bother to make such a long post because it bothers me quite a bit.

 

[RaijinFY]

So in other words Gamespot f'd up the translation and its really not a game just as Kaz said back a few months ago?

Ok, in that case, they better wont show GTHD again. Unfortunately, It seems GT5 is still realy in its development, so I fear we will have to suffer again from it.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Ok, in that case, they better wont show GTHD again. Unfortunately, It seems GT5 is still realy in its development, so I fear we will have to suffer again from it.

Suffer from what?

 

[bud]

Suffer from what?

seeing gt:hd.....again?

 

[SolidSnakex]

seeing gt:hd.....again?

Going by that post from B3D that doesn't seem likely now.

 

[RaijinFY]

Going by that post from B3D that doesn't seem likely now.

Well they will have to show something, GT series has been listed for a few days now. Maybe a target render of what they seem achievable with the PS3 hardware... :/