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[Zaptruder]

It's all good Zaptruder, I actually thank you for being honnest about it and admitting ones small mistakes.
You are now forever on my good side. And I appologize if i may have seemed a bit intimidating or disrespectful.

Cheers Zap!

Haha... no harm no foul.

Still, using a good steering wheel for these driving sims isn't so much about lap times.

I mean... how much of a real feel for driving in the game can you get with a joypad? It's not a bad investment; even if the G25 is priced at a crazy $300, it's pretty worthwhile even for you I'd think. I mean... can you really get access to the dearth and variety of cars you find in GT and to all the tracks you can drive them on?
Sure, it's not a complete experience, without actually experiencing first hand, furiously thrashing around on a track, but all the same, it lets you get that much closer to things that realistically, you'd be unlikely to ever do (e.g. racing at breakneck pace around nurburgring).

 

[bud]

I'm talking about 65 to 0 mph in terms of a collision. The impact sound is harrowing and traumatic. Whenever I crash into a wall in Forza 2, it reminds me of being at the crash site where we did our recordings.

Also, here is the story of the Lambo Murcielago we recorded, with pictures and sound mp3s:

http://forzamotorsport.net/devcorner/dyno/dyno03.htm

when will we get to see ingame footage of forza?

 

[Insertia]

I don't care if they have to cut the amount of cars down to 60, GT5 must have real time collision damage and online play.

GT is like the current largest racing series on consoles and the last incarnation seemed like lazy expansion.

 

[Gek54]

I'm talking about 65 to 0 mph in terms of a collision. The impact sound is harrowing and traumatic. Whenever I crash into a wall in Forza 2, it reminds me of being at the crash site where we did our recordings.

Also, here is the story of the Lambo Murcielago we recorded, with pictures and sound mp3s:

http://forzamotorsport.net/devcorner/dyno/dyno03.htm

Oops missread your first comment, I was thinking 0-60 in less than a second on the dyno. :embarrased.

 

[Gek54]

when will we get to see ingame footage of forza?

Che has until Thursday before we can call him out.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I don't care if they have to cut the amount of cars down to 60, GT5 must have real time collision damage and online play.

GT is like the current largest racing series on consoles and the last incarnation seemed like lazy expansion.

They could've included the online mode in GT4 but as we saw with the beta it would've ran at 30fps which Kaz says he considers unacceptable for the current versions of the series. Which is why its just going to remain a beta.

 

[bud]

Che has until Thursday before we can call him out.

i just find it weird that he is in every gt thread and talks about forza while he hasn't even reacted in this thread.

 

[Apex]

I was under the impression that they record the sound at a specific rpms and create algorithm which will mutate the sounds from one recorded point to another(higher or lower rpm). I always thought that was their method. I'm gonna go scavenge around the net to try and learn more about how exactly they do this.

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=33103

 

[Animal]

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=33103

thx for the link. I have never seen this thread even though I've been a member there for almost a year.

 

[DCharlie]

They could've included the online mode in GT4 but as we saw with the beta it would've ran at 30fps which Kaz says he considers unacceptable for the current versions of the series. Which is why its just going to remain a beta.

the other problem was apparently it was 1 vs 1 at 30 fps :/

So yes, it would have been unacceptable for many.

 

[thehighlight]

I could care less, since GT isn't even the real "realistic driving simulation" or whatever they call it. Where are my damage physics? Realistic my ass. Anyway, I guess this will be good news to all GT fanboys and car fanatics who climax over the thought of seeing their precious cars in HD.

 

[frAntic_Frog]

crashing isnt really the objective in racing, amirite?
its about getting the right gears, the right driving line, and outracing your opponents. GT4 excells in that respect

 

[DCharlie]

its about getting the right gears, the right driving line, and outracing your opponents. GT4 excells in that respect

and, of course, not crashing.

 

[Pimpwerx]

I could care less, since GT isn't even the real "realistic driving simulation" or whatever they call it. Where are my damage physics? Realistic my ass. Anyway, I guess this will be good news to all GT fanboys and car fanatics who climax over the thought of seeing their precious cars in HD.

This argument gets me everytime. Have you ever been in an accident? How fast were you going? How well did your car handle afterwards? I've been in a 90mph wreck, and that's with another car, not the wall. I couldn't drive 100 yards eventhough the impact was a lot less than hitting a barrier. I've been in fender benders on the street at 20-40mph where the drivers had to pull over b/c something on the suspension bent.

For so called racing fans, who the **** cares about damage models? With the exception of the actual race models, a crash of 20mph+ in a production car usually means, pack your shit and go home. Oh, and call the tow truck to take the wreck to a shop. Damage modelling in racing games is not realistic. It's cosmetic, and looks questionable at best, but it is anything but realistic. I prefer to keep it out of the wall. Maybe they should do like F1:CE and have you end about half your races (on the highest difficulty setting) on lap 1, turn 1 when you stuff it into the back of someone. Yeah, it was really fun playing with damages on in that game. Maybe they should include reliability as well. What about replicating turbo failure. Let's make it really realistic and have engines grenade every 5th or 6th race.

I say it every time, and I will continue to say it. Damage is for the casual fan who has the pick of the litter as far as cosmetically-quaint, technically-trash games to choose from. I would prefer Polyphony Digital devote their resources to cars, tracks and DRIVING engine. I drive, not crash. If you crash in real life, you usually end your race. The best you can hope for is losing irreconcilable amounts of time on track. I mean, that's why we all turn off the handicap, right....RIGHT??? I'm sure my opinion is in the minority, but if you played a Papyrus NASCAR/Indycar game, you've played with some of the best driving and crash physics. And if you're like me, you probably put damage down to the minimum, b/c the game can be downright depressing at full realism. Kaz can just throw in a "Game Over" screen for people who insist on pushing for crash physics. PEACE.

 

[Kittonwy]

This argument gets me everytime. Have you ever been in an accident? How fast were you going? How well did your car handle afterwards? I've been in a 90mph wreck, and that's with another car, not the wall. I couldn't drive 100 yards eventhough the impact was a lot less than hitting a barrier. I've been in fender benders on the street at 20-40mph where the drivers had to pull over b/c something on the suspension bent.

For so called racing fans, who the **** cares about damage models? With the exception of the actual race models, a crash of 20mph+ in a production car usually means, pack your shit and go home. Oh, and call the tow truck to take the wreck to a shop. Damage modelling in racing games is not realistic. It's cosmetic, and looks questionable at best, but it is anything but realistic. I prefer to keep it out of the wall. Maybe they should do like F1:CE and have you end about half your races (on the highest difficulty setting) on lap 1, turn 1 when you stuff it into the back of someone. Yeah, it was really fun playing with damages on in that game. Maybe they should include reliability as well. What about replicating turbo failure. Let's make it really realistic and have engines grenade every 5th or 6th race.

I say it every time, and I will continue to say it. Damage is for the casual fan who has the pick of the litter as far as cosmetically-quaint, technically-trash games to choose from. I would prefer Polyphony Digital devote their resources to cars, tracks and DRIVING engine. I drive, not crash. If you crash in real life, you usually end your race. The best you can hope for is losing irreconcilable amounts of time on track. I mean, that's why we all turn off the handicap, right....RIGHT??? I'm sure my opinion is in the minority, but if you played a Papyrus NASCAR/Indycar game, you've played with some of the best driving and crash physics. And if you're like me, you probably put damage down to the minimum, b/c the game can be downright depressing at full realism. Kaz can just throw in a "Game Over" screen for people who insist on pushing for crash physics. PEACE.

That's right. Even low speed rear-enders can render vehicles undrivable, crash physics is NOT realistic and is a cosmetic gimmick at best.

 

[Elios83]

Blah, so GT HD will be a game and GT5 will arrive in 2008 confirmed

 

[momolicious]

GT HD has a game is not a surprise, i thought we knew that when they first announced it long ago

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

i just find it weird that he is in every gt thread and talks about forza while he hasn't even reacted in this thread.

I'm kind of wondering if that one particular thread might have something inherently within it that might put constraints on his ability to fully take part in it.

I'm not 100%, but that might be the reason why. Or maybe he's just waiting for the right time to give us Forum Readers the scoop before every other media outlet on Earth. Do game companies have any kinds of rules about these disclosing or not disclosing these sorts of things that all employees have to agree upon? Maybe that could be a reason too.

 

[dark10x]

Oops missread your first comment, I was thinking 0-60 in less than a second on the dyno. :embarrased.

Hopefully the framerate of Forza 2 goes from 30-60...

 

[J-Rzez]

Also, Please get rid of the blender/power drill/grass trimmer thing you'r using to make engine sounds and do what everyone else is doing, GET THE REAL SOUNDS ok? The sounds in PGR3 are quite impressive and make the experience much much much more enjoyable. I like to hear my ferrari whine, i like to hear my mercedes rumble. I like to hear the car slicing through the air. I want to hear the tires flex under hard braking. I want to hear the car rattle. I want to hear the driver shifting and hitting the pedals.
Actually, if you guys were really the pinnacle, you would record the transmission whinning seperately from the engine note and use them both seperately in game. I'd also like to hear the driver breathing heavily when the driving gets a bit crazy and on the edge or when i crash. How about having the drivers ahead of you looking in their mirrors once in a while to see who's behind them?

There I think I'm done. I feel much better now.

Great... just damned great... now KY will read this, knowing ppl want this, as I'm sure he does as well since he's a car nut himself, and do that... and guess what? 500+ cars prolly? we won't see this game for 4-years now! Thank-You! hehe...

Blu-Ray FTW? or L? If Insomniac is using Blu-Ray already, I'm sure the Dev's that are Polyphony and KY are going to use that space as well... maybe this would be the first dual-layer BD-ROM for a game? heh...

Che: Mustang/Dynojet? Some of them have a real wierd Dyno-roller whine... hope they get rid of that... it's very annoying...

Probably a Dynopack Hub-Dyno would give a more pure sound? Never heard a car rigged up to one (in-person) but it should be quieter i'd think...

Also... I expect to hear my Evo in ALL it's glory in Forza 2... I'll be listening closely... and it better react closer to like they do in real life this time too... Oh, oh... and there's Evo's busting out 903AWHP (corrected) out there right now... I better be able to do the same in there as well... not this "we'll limit it to say, 533hp just for the hell of it" bs... No...

 

[SolidSnakex]

Blah, so GT HD will be a game and GT5 will arrive in 2008 confirmed

No. GTHD is not a game.

 

[Gek54]

i just find it weird that he is in every gt thread and talks about forza while he hasn't even reacted in this thread.

Nm

 

[mckmas8808]

This argument gets me everytime. Have you ever been in an accident? How fast were you going? How well did your car handle afterwards? I've been in a 90mph wreck, and that's with another car, not the wall. I couldn't drive 100 yards eventhough the impact was a lot less than hitting a barrier. I've been in fender benders on the street at 20-40mph where the drivers had to pull over b/c something on the suspension bent.

For so called racing fans, who the **** cares about damage models? With the exception of the actual race models, a crash of 20mph+ in a production car usually means, pack your shit and go home. Oh, and call the tow truck to take the wreck to a shop. Damage modelling in racing games is not realistic. It's cosmetic, and looks questionable at best, but it is anything but realistic. I prefer to keep it out of the wall. Maybe they should do like F1:CE and have you end about half your races (on the highest difficulty setting) on lap 1, turn 1 when you stuff it into the back of someone. Yeah, it was really fun playing with damages on in that game. Maybe they should include reliability as well. What about replicating turbo failure. Let's make it really realistic and have engines grenade every 5th or 6th race.

I say it every time, and I will continue to say it. Damage is for the casual fan who has the pick of the litter as far as cosmetically-quaint, technically-trash games to choose from. I would prefer Polyphony Digital devote their resources to cars, tracks and DRIVING engine. I drive, not crash. If you crash in real life, you usually end your race. The best you can hope for is losing irreconcilable amounts of time on track. I mean, that's why we all turn off the handicap, right....RIGHT??? I'm sure my opinion is in the minority, but if you played a Papyrus NASCAR/Indycar game, you've played with some of the best driving and crash physics. And if you're like me, you probably put damage down to the minimum, b/c the game can be downright depressing at full realism. Kaz can just throw in a "Game Over" screen for people who insist on pushing for crash physics. PEACE.

Look dude I understand what you are saying and all, BUT I still want full body car damage. Why not do it?

 

[Fafalada]

Look dude I understand what you are saying and all, BUT I still want full body car damage. Why not do it?

If it was done realistically (eg. one crash = end of race) you'd get 99% of public plus 100% of reviewers trashing the game for being too difficult.
If it was done the usual game style, you'd still get people complaining about lack of realism like they do now.

But it is true it needs to be added either way(along with online and other things) - the series hasn't exactly progressed much in most recent iteration.

 

[Jonnyram]

No. GTHD is not a game.

Keep telling yourself that and it may come true!

 

[Kittonwy]

Keep telling yourself that and it may come true!

Do you know for a fact that it's a game or are you just trying to annoy him because you hate Sony?

 

[VictimOfGrief]

Why Sony... why are you doing this to gamers? WHY!?

 

[Kittonwy]

Why Sony... why are you doing this to gamers? WHY!?

When did Sony officially announce they're going to release GTHD as a game?

 

[DCharlie]

When did Sony officially announce they're going to release GTHD as a game?

they are the anti-company!

Polyphony : Where is PSP GT , where is GT for boys? Where is GT online? All announced, never showed up.

This one : not really announced = DEFINITELY COMING!

Kitty, you should know by now, even if you know something, you can't say it around here. So all we can do is wait with a big box of tissues for SSX :/

Do you know for a fact that it's a game or are you just trying to annoy him because you hate Sony?

it's more likely to annoy him because SSX is annoyingly optomistic about everything sony related. Not sure JRs stance on Sony is a driver.

 

[SolidSnakex]

it's more likely to annoy him because SSX is annoyingly optomistic about everything sony related. Not sure JRs stance on Sony is a driver.

Yah I know anything positive toward Sony must just get under your skin.

Anyway if they were going to release it why not just say it? It's not its anything they need to hide anyway as it'd sell if it was a resolution upgrade with bikes and an online mode. Yet everything they said points to all it being an E3 demo that they needed to throw together because Ken wanted them to show something there.

 

[Fafalada]

they are the anti-company!

It's all part of viral marketting campaign. Come TGS, the GTHD will be shown with all PD/Sony representatives avoiding any questions regarding GT5 in strange ways such as (IIRC we've always talked about shipping next iteration of GT as a 1080P upgrade of GT4), following which we'll have an outbreak of people posting how PS3 hardware is so crippled (obviously, there'll be at least 10 new downgrades announced between now and November) that GTHD is the best it can do.
Finally, when all will seem lost and first realtime Forza footage is shown at GDC, Kaz will march to the podium during MSs demonstration and start playing the real GT5 on PS3P through his holographic projection screen announcing both the next generation of handhelds and the GT5 in one swoop.

(yes, I'm overdosing on caffeine).

 

[Shinobi]

This reminds me a bit of GT 2000, which (IIRC) started life as an upgrade of GT2 and wound up turning into a more polished GT3. Maybe this will turn out the same way...though as we've learnt the last year or so, using PS2's history to predict PS3's course is folly.






















And BTW, where the **** is GT Mobile anyway?

 

[Fafalada]

This reminds me a bit of GT 2000, which (IIRC) started life as an upgrade of GT2 and wound up turning into a more polished GT3

My favourite part is that both games have the same collision bug on Seattle track - which is pretty much obvious proof that GT2k IS GT3, just evolved.

Sequential upgrading could be perfectly viable in this case too - but let's not forvet in this industry you never know when a producer (or someone above him) will go insane and order something that everyone else can see is dumb except him/her.

 

[megateto]

My favourite part is that both games have the same collision bug on Seattle track - which is pretty much obvious proof that GT2k IS GT3, just evolved.

Could you please elaborate on that one?

 

[Zaptruder]

If they do go for GT:HD... what do you guys think we'll see?

upgraded physics? maybe. No damage modelling though...

combination of GT and TT; check...

more than 6 cars on the track at once; hopefully!

Online; better be.

60fps, 1080p. Duh.

More vehicles then found in GT and TT? Possibly, but wouldn't expect many new ones (1 or 2 perhaps).

Maybe support for Logitech's G25. That would be sweet, but I doubt it.

Higher res texture data; I'd expect they have this kind of stuff on file already; downsampling for use in GT4... but probably not significantly higher.

New lighting engine and shaders? I doubt it; would require a good deal of work on the assets; a lot of GT lighting is 'baked' in, so anything other than trying to emulate GT's lighting/rendering may cause non-trivial problems.

Hopefully at least 6 player online; would be sorely disappointed otherwise.

Would be nice to see them building in some gameplay improvements, but it's very unlikely.

And a budget price; $30 would be the sweet spot.

 

[DCharlie]

Yah I know anything positive toward Sony must just get under your skin.

Exactly in the same way that anything damaging to sony has to be swept under the carpet by you. *shrug*

Anyway if they were going to release it why not just say it?

it's maybe a big TGS surprise!

It's not its anything they need to hide anyway as it'd sell if it was a resolution upgrade with bikes and an online mode. Yet everything they said points to all it being an E3 demo that they needed to throw together because Ken wanted them to show something there.

... does anyone seriously believe that 3 weeks visit-to-office story?!?

 

[Twix]

Gran Turismo HD = GT4 but in a higher resolution..hmmm, the real question is, if Gran Turisom HD turend out to be a real game, how can I notice any difference if my HDTV does not support 1080p ? If I have an EDTV with 480p, the game will look the same as the original GT4 right ? sorry, but this sounds very stupid.

 

[SolidSnakex]

If they do go for GT:HD... what do you guys think we'll see?

Hopefully it'd be that TGS 2005 demo, which even though it was using the same basic car models as GT4 it looked alot better due to the lighting upgrade.

 

[DCharlie]

if GTHD isn't the game thats coming out (*) then what exactly have the team been doing since GT4?

GT4 online ended up not happening beyond a limited beta
GT for boys .... no idea what happened there.
GT PSP... hmm...

i can't believe that all they have been working on is Tourist Trophey (and 3 weeks work on GTHD)

 

[SolidSnakex]

if GTHD isn't the game thats coming out (*) then what exactly have the team been doing since GT4?

GT5 perhaps?

 

[DCharlie]

GT5 perhaps?

so when Ken came to visit why would they not just say "oh, we'll just knock something out of the work we have now" rather than doing a GTHD version that's done nothing but rile people up on both side of the troll bridge?

 

[Fafalada]

... does anyone seriously believe that 3 weeks visit-to-office story?!?

Considering other stories I know about Ken - yes, it's right up his alley.

 

[SolidSnakex]

so when Ken came to visit why would they not just say "oh, we'll just knock something out of the work we have now" rather than doing a GTHD version that's done nothing but rile people up on both side of the troll bridge?

Between this thread and this other one

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=115978

That entire argument has already been discussed. So we go to the fact that the sites that posted those screens of GTHD pointed out that it was just an E3 demo and Sony says that GT on the PS3 will far exceed that. Kaz has mentioned that he doesn't plan an expansion of GT but an explosion of the seires. SO where exactly does GTHD fit into that?

 

[megateto]

Considering other stories I know about Ken - yes, it's right up his alley.

Again, could you please elaborate (but this time it really sound way more interesting.. Ken going crazy on the ass of some poor dude..) ?

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Hopefully damage modeling never makes it in.

Let's say a Porsche hits a wall at 200 miles per hour and essentially ends up looking like soda can after you stomp on it. Now imagine a thread where somebody picks apart GT5 because Polyphony didn't use the correct engine with the car.

When you factor in damage modeling you'd also have to factor in all of the car's internal parts which are constantly updated in real time(afterall you buy the car parts ingame to mod your vehicle). It would take years just to get that accurate enough to Polyphony's ideal taste.

Plus if you crash the race is over anyway, I've walked away from running Daytona USA machines if I happened to knick a few walls and I've quit/restarted many races in GT3/4 whenever I screwed up. Damage modeling is useless and expensive.

Hell I haven't touched on the effect it would have on the processor. PS3 is awesome nextgen sure but having to model each intricate part of the car would result in less cars on the track and/or less detail in the track.

But if people want it to make themselves feel better about their game then go right ahead.

Also I was rear-ended by a car going less than 20 mph. My car was totaled...enough said.

On-topic: GTHD better have online play AT LEAST and more cars on the track. Also it should be a pack-in(but it won't).

 

[DCharlie]

That entire argument has already been discussed. So we go to the fact that the sites that posted those screens of GTHD pointed out that it was just an E3 demo and Sony says that GT on the PS3 will far exceed that. Kaz has mentioned that he doesn't plan an expansion of GT but an explosion of the seires. SO where exactly does GTHD fit into that?

Ken went round saying "look, we need a GT game now, put out GTHD"

He only went round last week, so the game should be ready for launch.

I know you are convinced it's not coming out, but i think you might be in for a surprise.

 

[Angelcurio]

Personally i dont want damage modelling in GT5. In real life i have been totally screwed with accidents at a mere 20 mph, and certainly while playing an Endurance Race in GT5 i wouldnt like to restart the race at lap 198 just because i crashed into a wall at 200MPH.

 

[Animal]

Honnestly, i want gthd.

 

[Kangu]

Ken went round saying "look, we need a GT game now, put out GTHD"

He only went round last week, so the game should be ready for launch.

I know you are convinced it's not coming out, but i think you might be in for a surprise.

If the PS3 is backwards compatible and will most likely upscale games as well as add some sort of AA, what could possibly be the point of GT:HD? It's more damaging than anything else, plus it seems like a waste of time. You dismiss the idea that GT: HD could have taken 3 weeks to code yet you seem more than ready to believe that Polyphony has been working on this cosmetic upgrade since they finished GT4 (IIRC TT was done by a diferent team.).

SSX is absurdly optimistic about everything Sony, and often tries to present his optimistic views as if with some sort of authority, but if anyone should be calling him out it most certainly is not the yin to his yang, DCharlie.

 

[plagiarize]

Hopefully damage modeling never makes it in.

Let's say a Porsche hits a wall at 200 miles per hour and essentially ends up looking like soda can after you stomp on it. Now imagine a thread where somebody picks apart GT5 because Polyphony didn't use the correct engine with the car.

When you factor in damage modeling you'd also have to factor in all of the car's internal parts which are constantly updated in real time(afterall you buy the car parts ingame to mod your vehicle). It would take years just to get that accurate enough to Polyphony's ideal taste.

Plus if you crash the race is over anyway, I've walked away from running Daytona USA machines if I happened to knick a few walls and I've quit/restarted many races in GT3/4 whenever I screwed up. Damage modeling is useless and expensive.

Hell I haven't touched on the effect it would have on the processor. PS3 is awesome nextgen sure but having to model each intricate part of the car would result in less cars on the track and/or less detail in the track.

But if people want it to make themselves feel better about their game then go right ahead.

Also I was rear-ended by a car going less than 20 mph. My car was totaled...enough said.

On-topic: GTHD better have online play AT LEAST and more cars on the track. Also it should be a pack-in(but it won't).

damage modelling isn't useless. as long as it's EASIER to get around a hairpin by ricocheting off of the other cars, you can't say it's useless. if my car wrecks and i get a time penalty for such things, it's going to encourage me to drive properly where as in GT it's often better to bounce off other cars and walls.

i want to see something between fully realistic damage and respawning and purely cosmetic damage again. NFSorsche had this, and it was an awesome gameplay feature. You could never total your car to the point that it was ****ed up, but you had to pay to repair any parts damaged in an accident. The game had a hardcore parts catalogue, and individual parts would get damaged depending on what happened.

Not only would a crash effect your handling and top speed, but after a particularly bad crash you'd think 'holy shit that's going to cost me'. you'd drive to save your tyres... you could usually still compete after a bad crash, they didn't penalise you so much as to make you want to start the race over after a crash, but it was a system that really worked.

GT would be a better game if it had such a system which IS more realistic than no damage at all.