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Guardian: 'E3 diversity report - so was it a white guy-fest again?'
- Thread starter Spring Drive
- Start date
RipperGrim
Member
I would prefer if everyone took a leaf out of Sony's book and have basically nobody presenting the games, just blast trailers and gameplay at us until we faint.
Also are we seriously having an actual rating now for diversity? What the fuck. How many Black people is needed for a 4/5? Do we expect these companies to now meet a numerical quota to get a 5/5? This concept is ridiculous.
Also are we seriously having an actual rating now for diversity? What the fuck. How many Black people is needed for a 4/5? Do we expect these companies to now meet a numerical quota to get a 5/5? This concept is ridiculous.
SpiceMelange
Member
Maybe next time you will simply answer his actual question instead extrapolating.
Wow, looks like a lot of people are still very much offended from just talking about diversity at E3. The reactions in this thread worries me a lot in that I thought the general discourse would be more open and receptive towards simply talking about diversity in games and conferences.
bobbychalkers
Member
preach, their analysis could have been better but this is a topic that warrants discussion.
This, it just feels really damn weird
I don't really get the point in which a European developer owned by a Japanese company should include characters of an ethnic background of which they have absolutely no relation to.
I think black and women representation is getting good in the industry, even if it's not quite there.
There's that strange trend of characters very rarely being recognizably Asian, even among Japanese games - but i'm unsure that is even a problem, since evidently Japanese developers and consumers have no issue with it.
And, of course, don't expect anyone recognizably Arab \ Russian \ Latino who's not evil, but what you're going to do.
I'm clearly not talking about the article, they didn't even rate Nintendo
There is ethnic diversity and gender diversity, see e.g. the Magnificent Seven remake, which is ethnically diverse, but if Wikipedia is an indication seems to have a 1:14 ratio when it comes to women/men.
What people want and what people deserve is honest, meaningful representation, no matter what their gender or ethnicity. That said, representation of women of minority is particularly bad/lacking.
HyperCubed4
Member
People of different races, genders and creeds can bring so much to the table. It's disappointing to see very few groups represented at these conferences.
I don't care about race representation that much. But I'm also a white, heterosexual male with a Christian background. I'm pretty bored of seeing my group represented all the time. Show me what other people can do.
I don't care about race representation that much. But I'm also a white, heterosexual male with a Christian background. I'm pretty bored of seeing my group represented all the time. Show me what other people can do.
The world isn't a utopia. Some people were born into bad families in bad situations. Their chances of success are lower but any one can succeed.
Trying to twist my words?
If someone was put on stage because of race or gender and not because of their position or abilities it would be a token situation and it would be insulting. If there were more minorities or women on stage it wouldn't mean that they were tokens. That is not what I am saying. Guess what though? They probably put the best qualified people on stage regardless of race or gender. Gasp.That is the way that it should be.
publicpwnerer
Member
So there's something wrong with being white apparently? Are people advocating for tokenism?
The irony. If you keep turning left, you'll eventually end up right.
Ivan A Nguyen
Member
I'm surprised Ubisoft didn't get a higher rating. Weren't most of the guys presenting French? Or is it wrong to not lump all white guys together?
I edited my post. You are right!
I will say this though, I feel like these companies are just going to shoe horn in "diversity" into their games because of fear of backlash now, when you have sites now grading you based solely on that. I don't think that is the end result we all want. Personally, I want and feel it all needs to come from a genuine desire to do so, not feeling forced to because of fear. IMO.
DrROBschiz
Member
Its going to be a slow process guys
You need female creators and staff to continue to penetrate the industry and build businesses and games etc..
Give it some time and continue to be respectful and inclusive
You need female creators and staff to continue to penetrate the industry and build businesses and games etc..
Give it some time and continue to be respectful and inclusive
Shang
Member
I don't really get this article. I understand that diversity is important, but numerically grading conferences and deducting points for having a white male executive speak for most of the conference rubs me the wrong way. This industry has enough quantitative grading of qualitative things.
EDIT: to extend a little, people are people. if there was a complete lack of diversity, I could understand critiquing that, but this seems more like it's looking for issues. I don't care about the color or gender of the person presenting/starring in the video game, I just want to see the video game.
EDIT: to extend a little, people are people. if there was a complete lack of diversity, I could understand critiquing that, but this seems more like it's looking for issues. I don't care about the color or gender of the person presenting/starring in the video game, I just want to see the video game.
Visualante2
Member
I feel like it was markedly better than previous years. Ubisoft and Microsoft were stand outs. 3/5 may be harsh but I think they would all accept there is room for improvement.
edit. To be clear I'm judging based on people presenting the games rather than the actual player characters on show. I also chose to include the montage of developers talking about upcoming Microsoft hardware.
edit. To be clear I'm judging based on people presenting the games rather than the actual player characters on show. I also chose to include the montage of developers talking about upcoming Microsoft hardware.
RealityPales
Member
STFU Guardian. Seriously.
BeatnikGunsoo
Member
as a black guy I'll say one thing I went from "watch dogs 2 bleh" to "watch dogs 2 must get" all because of a black protagonist
and a non stereotype at that whew
and a non stereotype at that whew
WrenchNinja
Member
weird how that always tends to be a white guy
Summer Haze
Banned
Smh...
People always say this. "it's going better now, just wait and be quiet and everything will get better". People have told me this the last 10 years I've been interested/worked in games.
But why can't things be good right now?
Why does there have to be diversity everywhere? I suspect some people view the world as a sort of patchwork, and each individual patch has to contain elements of every other patch, instead of stepping back and appreciating the diversity contained within the whole.
Also, what exactly is the definition of diversity? It has to be more than skin colour and gender. Do we include disabilities, mental capacity, political views? If not, why not?
Some people have far too much time on their hands. Lack of diversity in videogames ffs.
Pixels. On. A. Screen.
God forbid the morons who come up with this shit stirring nonsense experience some real world problems.
Edit: just seen its an article from the Guardian. There's a fucking surprise.
Pixels. On. A. Screen.
God forbid the morons who come up with this shit stirring nonsense experience some real world problems.
Edit: just seen its an article from the Guardian. There's a fucking surprise.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Well, here is the problem. Shoe-horning in diversity, as you put it, implies that a lack of diversity is the default. If you make a black game protagonist, you made a black game protagonist, while if you made a white game protagonist, you just made a game protagonist.
Maybe developers will start shoe horning in diversity, and maybe that will be super awkward and cringe-worthy for a while. But the attitude that diversity should be added, instead of simply assumed, needs to change, and I'm willing to take a few years of awkward and cringe-worthy in my entertainment software to get there.
Seems odd to have the Bechdel test as part of the grading when 99% of the people speaking on stage at E3 aren't going to be speaking to anyone else on stage, they're going to be speaking to the audience. I think just having more women and POC on stage should be good enough for higher marks.
Are you asking why diversity matters?
Is this the most artful, meaningful, or exacting way of measuring diversity? Of course not. But these kinds of blunt articles certainly seem to have had an effect on presentations, which is a whole lot better than the track record of the previous method of ignoring the whiteness and maleness of the convention and hoping it changes on its own.
The racist thing about this post is that you automatically assume that if a person of color was put on stage, than it wouldn't be because of their abilities.
And yes, there is such a thing as white privilege, a property that pervades economic status, but I can tell your view of society is so myopic that you probably wouldn't even think it exists.
Always-honest
Banned
That report doesn't sound that divers... or accurate.
But i guess it's as far as this topic really goes.
I agree that diversity is good. So all attention towards it is great. But maybe some people should look further than their limited view of diversity.
But i guess it's as far as this topic really goes.
I agree that diversity is good. So all attention towards it is great. But maybe some people should look further than their limited view of diversity.
Will read article and comment on that later but man the tone of replies I immediately saw.
Yes people care about how well an influential industry in public presentations come across from a diversity point of view.
It's a large, topical subject and the industry will be judged on how well it drives (or badly) better representation of diversity and equality. Given how lousy the industry has been for diversity historically it will is even more in the spotlight now.
Yes people care about how well an influential industry in public presentations come across from a diversity point of view.
It's a large, topical subject and the industry will be judged on how well it drives (or badly) better representation of diversity and equality. Given how lousy the industry has been for diversity historically it will is even more in the spotlight now.
At these conferences, I really just want to hear from the nerds who make the games.
It's obvious when companies hire out celeb hosts just to be more inclusive demographically, they usually end up being awkward and know next to nothing about the games besides what's on the Teleprompter. I'd rather hear from the people on the projects, I miss when we had people like Kutaragi and Shu going out there. I'd rather hear from someone with a weak stage presence that struggles with the language than an actor pretending to know about game development.
It's obvious when companies hire out celeb hosts just to be more inclusive demographically, they usually end up being awkward and know next to nothing about the games besides what's on the Teleprompter. I'd rather hear from the people on the projects, I miss when we had people like Kutaragi and Shu going out there. I'd rather hear from someone with a weak stage presence that struggles with the language than an actor pretending to know about game development.
ShockingAlberto
Member
didn't I see you in the Horizon thread talking about how much you want to fuck the main character
To be fair, while I do think this is still a big issue that needs to be addressed... I don't think forcing it is any better. That will only open up more cans of worms. There need's to be a balance- how? I can't be sure, but there has to more to do than being too passive or too forceful.
No I didn't. You were the one that assumed that I was saying that. Who is the one with the problem now?
Qualified people should be used regardless of race or gender. That is it. How is being color and gender blind racist?
Dongs Macabre
aka Daedalos42
Like institutional racism and sexism? Like the constant harassment of women and minorities in the video game industry?
Intersectionality.
Only covering one spectrum (rich, white, presumably straight, guys) is not the way forward. Just trying to simply do more is better than one-dimensionality. Anything is better than that, even if it does not cover all identity categories (religion, age). The games industry needs to think more broadly and do the proper actions right now. Not tomorrow, not next week, not next year, right fucking now.
Humm they didn't mention the boy in TLG. I mean he doesn't seem to be representing any known cultural background (I think) but he isn't white.
Although I usually don't notice any of these things the moment games are being shown (unless it's an overwhelming white guy fest) it's always nice to see a compilation of this stuff after the fact. Not bad E3, but not great either.
Although I usually don't notice any of these things the moment games are being shown (unless it's an overwhelming white guy fest) it's always nice to see a compilation of this stuff after the fact. Not bad E3, but not great either.
Cow Mengde
Banned
I think grading Nintendo on diversity is kind of tough because they have no choice but to have Asian people on the stage, because Nintendo is an Asian company, and it's creators are Asian. It would look diverse by default. I do like the fact that they feature female presenters and it never feels forced when they're there. If you ever saw a Nintendo World Store bag, you'd get the feeling the diversity displayed on the bag feels forced. I don't know how to describe it. Sometimes it just feels so fake.
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
Being proactive about not making straight white men the default is not the same as "forcing diversity", that's tokenism.
BeatnikGunsoo
Member
Wow this is the definition of a bad post
most people who say that they dont see an issue with diversity or care as much are the ones that are representing the most in the mediums. I see it as an ignorant mindset to those who are least represented and would like to see them self more in these roles.
If our society was different like the media was control by blacks or women, than most likely white people and men would be fighting and complaining that they are not represented enough. Its always a top of the hill mentality with theses issues.
If our society was different like the media was control by blacks or women, than most likely white people and men would be fighting and complaining that they are not represented enough. Its always a top of the hill mentality with theses issues.
matrixman92
Member
"The only identifiable woman in Bethesda’s press conference was Emily Kaldwin, and while she made a strong showing it’s unfortunate she has to share the limelight with her ageing father."
Is this sarcasm? I hope it is
Is this sarcasm? I hope it is
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