Class and sexuality are usually hidden or implicit in a lot of games, but you betcha that white dudes at a certain age dominate representation.
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Guardian: 'E3 diversity report - so was it a white guy-fest again?'
- Thread starter Spring Drive
- Start date
Class and sexuality are usually hidden or implicit in a lot of games, but you betcha that white dudes at a certain age dominate representation.
TheSpoiler
Member
Yeah, this is too much work. I think we should just give up.
Let's play it safe and have just white people everywhere!
lightskintwin
Banned
I don't really care about the presenters, however as a black guy, If i'm going to keep playing white guys, can I at least get some diversity with them??? I swear I've been playing the same 30ish brown haired/bald grizzled bad ass white guy for forever. Surely there are more types of white guys than that that people are willing to play and are worth being depicted.
ShockingAlberto
Member
schwabdizzle
Banned
As a white male, the last thing I think about is the gender or race that I wish I was playing as this particular type of character. I really think this gender stuff is just taken a bit too far. I wont sit there playing Horizon Zero Dawn wishing I was playing as a man the whole time. I care about my enjoyment of the game and story. I just feel that people have way too much entitlement these days, and need to relax more.
Clearly you care enough about it to enter this thread and tell us how the critics are actually racist for investigating the diversity of the conferences.
ShockingAlberto
Member
"People are too entitled, I expect everyone to be like me."
Where is that NeoGAF gif when you need it?
After last year's E3, it didn't even dawn on me that a lot of the games shown this year starred white guys.
I'm a black dude, so I love seeing minorities and women in games. I've said it in similar threads, but last years E3, while I was walking around the show floor and talking to developers, I was so impressed by how many games starred women. A lot of the developers working on games that I chatted with were women too. I think last years E3 was a great showcase of female talent and characters. It was encouraging to me. Now I'm hoping we'll see more minority women as leads in gaming as well but baby steps, I suppose. I think that thanks to the efforts of people like Anita Saarkisian, the gaming landscape has indeed changed. Just because this year had another glut of white male protagonists doesn't mean we've reverted. And besides, the movement to get more minority and female representation in gaming isn't meant to eliminate the white male protagonists, and I don't know why some people think that's the aim. The aim is to get developers to not just default to white male protagonist thinking when developing characters. There is a breadth of diversity in the world, and opening up your train of thought to include that diversity is a multi-beneficial thing to do.
It benefits minorities and women who would also like to see themselves in the heroes that get to go on awesome adventures and save the world or what have you. And it benefits the developer, in that their game isn't just another in a sea of samey titles featuring the same type of character, in the same type of situations that we've seen over and over again.
Telltales The Walking Dead seasons 1 and 2 were amazing because of the great characterization and emotional drama, but it also felt fresh and original because the leads of those seasons were a black male, and a little black girl, with Clementine, the little black girl, taking the lead in Season 2. The story would have certainly been just as powerful if the leads had been white, but we've seen that song and dance a million times before, and even on the surface level of just visual distinction, it felt nice to see. Characters not written to stereotypical spec, who were also relatable and charming. Our emotional investment in Lee and Clementine wasn't lessened because of the color of their skin. Diversity in gaming isn't a bad thing, or a boogey man. It also doesn't mean the death of the white male protagonist, just that he gets to share the spotlight from time to time.
As an artist and a writer, I found myself defaulting to white male protagonists when creating my comics and novels. It wasn't until I had my eyes opened that I was doing that that I started to reconsider constantly having the white male lead as my focal point in, quite literally, every single one of my stories, and drawings. It's how my comic series, The Gamma Gals came about. I started thinking outside of the default. Doesn't mean that my other concepts and stories don't star white dudes, because many of them still do, but now I no longer default to that when brainstorming a new idea. It's as simple as asking myself, "Does this character need to be a white male?" Unsurprisingly enough, the answer is almost always, "No, they don't," and then it becomes a fun game of deciding what gender and ethnicity the character will be, but usually that comes after I've created a character profile in general (ie, the character is a doctor, soldier, astronaut, their background, etc).
Developers at last years E3 showed off a crazy lineup of diverse titles. It was awesome. This E3 wasn't "business as usual," it was just devs showing off games they've been working on for years, many of them starring white dudes. It's not a controversy or a conspiracy.
I'm a black dude, so I love seeing minorities and women in games. I've said it in similar threads, but last years E3, while I was walking around the show floor and talking to developers, I was so impressed by how many games starred women. A lot of the developers working on games that I chatted with were women too. I think last years E3 was a great showcase of female talent and characters. It was encouraging to me. Now I'm hoping we'll see more minority women as leads in gaming as well but baby steps, I suppose. I think that thanks to the efforts of people like Anita Saarkisian, the gaming landscape has indeed changed. Just because this year had another glut of white male protagonists doesn't mean we've reverted. And besides, the movement to get more minority and female representation in gaming isn't meant to eliminate the white male protagonists, and I don't know why some people think that's the aim. The aim is to get developers to not just default to white male protagonist thinking when developing characters. There is a breadth of diversity in the world, and opening up your train of thought to include that diversity is a multi-beneficial thing to do.
It benefits minorities and women who would also like to see themselves in the heroes that get to go on awesome adventures and save the world or what have you. And it benefits the developer, in that their game isn't just another in a sea of samey titles featuring the same type of character, in the same type of situations that we've seen over and over again.
Telltales The Walking Dead seasons 1 and 2 were amazing because of the great characterization and emotional drama, but it also felt fresh and original because the leads of those seasons were a black male, and a little black girl, with Clementine, the little black girl, taking the lead in Season 2. The story would have certainly been just as powerful if the leads had been white, but we've seen that song and dance a million times before, and even on the surface level of just visual distinction, it felt nice to see. Characters not written to stereotypical spec, who were also relatable and charming. Our emotional investment in Lee and Clementine wasn't lessened because of the color of their skin. Diversity in gaming isn't a bad thing, or a boogey man. It also doesn't mean the death of the white male protagonist, just that he gets to share the spotlight from time to time.
As an artist and a writer, I found myself defaulting to white male protagonists when creating my comics and novels. It wasn't until I had my eyes opened that I was doing that that I started to reconsider constantly having the white male lead as my focal point in, quite literally, every single one of my stories, and drawings. It's how my comic series, The Gamma Gals came about. I started thinking outside of the default. Doesn't mean that my other concepts and stories don't star white dudes, because many of them still do, but now I no longer default to that when brainstorming a new idea. It's as simple as asking myself, "Does this character need to be a white male?" Unsurprisingly enough, the answer is almost always, "No, they don't," and then it becomes a fun game of deciding what gender and ethnicity the character will be, but usually that comes after I've created a character profile in general (ie, the character is a doctor, soldier, astronaut, their background, etc).
Developers at last years E3 showed off a crazy lineup of diverse titles. It was awesome. This E3 wasn't "business as usual," it was just devs showing off games they've been working on for years, many of them starring white dudes. It's not a controversy or a conspiracy.
Cow Mengde
Banned
I didn't comment on Sony because I didn't see their presentation. If Sony's presentation didn't include Asians, then that's their problem. How many PS4 games presented were made by Japanese creators? I really can't think of that many Sony Japanese 1st party besides The Last Guardian. I think that's why Nintendo's situation is unique. Their diversity comes so naturally whether it's intentional or not.
Can't believe so many people are getting mad at this. It's not like they're talking about the quality of the products on display at E3, they're literally just focusing on one aspect of the presentations. And agree that the presentations could've been more diverse, and I imagine a lot of them has to do with the lack of diversity in the industry and the tech sector as a whole. Granted I also agree that the article could've been done better, but at least in my mind the goal of the article is to point something out and generate a conversation about it.
WrenchNinja
Member
The endgame looks like anyone could be up there instead of just white dude in a business suit or white dude in clothes too big for him
this is not complicated. The fact that you are trying to go for a slippery slope analogy is pretty silly
publicpwnerer
Member
Kinda presumptuous to assume that every "knee-jerk" reaction is from the "majority", considering the very first reply to this thread is from a minority individual. I think people are genuinely sick and tired of the holier-than-thou agenda pushing click bait content from bloggers.
Does no one really see anything wrong with the sleazy nature in having a report card type assessment of counting the minorities in a press conference / E3? Having supposed good intentions doesn't give people the right to pretend / try to advocate for all minorities, especially in a such patronising fashion.
Once more, do people not see the irony in using "white-guy fest" as practically a dirty word?
TheSpoiler
Member
Well you know, non-white people just aren't gonna be happy until they get all of the cake. They gotta have every damn variable and then where would all the actual whites fit?
It's sad that in 2016 white genocide is still happening.
People need to wake up!
Yeah it's so fucking boring to see the same shit again and again. Days Gone, Deus Ex Mankind Divided, Dead Rising 4, God of War 4, Nioh, Death Stranded, Detroit Become White, Resident Evil 7 demo, Scalebound, Gears of War 4, Vampyr, etc.
But I'm glad to see stuff like Mafia 3, Watch Dogs 2, Horizons, Walking Dead Season 3, Mass Effect Andromeda, Fifa 17, Battlefield 1 (to some extent).
??
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
Not a single one of those companies are owned by blacks and probably doesn't have a black lead designer either. Just like anything else, if you want to see your people properly represented instead of a checklist token that is there only so they can avoid controversy , you need to be behind the scenes. Begging white people to shoehorn you into their establishments isn't the way to go IMO. I personally am not satisfied with just seeing a character in whatever art form/medium that is on the same team as me. I want to see my people on the inside and the outside.
Seeing a black character star in something and behind the scenes it's 100% white boys doesn't do much for me.
Seeing a black character star in something and behind the scenes it's 100% white boys doesn't do much for me.
Sure and yes you are. You are contempt with your people being almost completely absent in the biggest form of entertainment in the world right now.
Great post.
MysteryQuesadilla
Member
Those complaining about this - look at this less as a gaggle of humans and realize that it's a non-gaming publication looking at the largest annual trade show for a huge and growing industry that's intertwined with the tech industry at large. It's not about you or how you think it's blown out of proportion. It's something that's looked at every single industry in the US at a macro level.
I noticed maybe one black guy in the crowd, it was pretty jarring to me actually (this was fro the Sony stream when they panned the camera over the crowd).
jabberwocker
Banned
Wow cant wait till the tokyo game show results are released...... Seriously thought its click bait article
.
OK, so how do you propose we get them behind the scenes?
American gaming conference vs. Japanese conference. Totally the same.
LostDonkey
Member
I thought the whole point was.....it didn't matter what colour your skin was.
lightskintwin
Banned
Has there ever been a Ginger white dude in a Triple AAA game? Hell, I'd be down with a socially awkward or fat white guy as a lead in a blockbuster game. I mean they're Hollywood tropes; I would think somebody would've at least tried something different just change things up.
RealityCheque
Banned
And why rate EA as 1/5.
The main guy presenting was a wonderful representative for the robot/synthetic community.
The main guy presenting was a wonderful representative for the robot/synthetic community.
striferser
Huge Nickleback Fan
While i agree with diversity report, the scoring system was honestly not necessary. it detract from what really important, that is, the diversity.
Report as it is, and let the audience draw their own conclusion.
Report as it is, and let the audience draw their own conclusion.
Just ignoring the issue and not talking about it because some people are "tired of it" isn't okay with many people. It needs to be discussed otherwise things will never change like it or not. As another poster (sarcastically) put it we can't:
Kojima. He was also one of the only 3 people on stage. The other two being Andy and Shawn. Sony was very contained, that's why the article says you have to judge the conference based on the games.
Totally agreed. It needs to be both production and representation for sure. Companies need to make an active effort to hire more diverse talent and at the same time promote and give leading positions to non-default identities to make sure that they are in positions of power in the company.
How this would be accomplished is debatable, but actively prioritizing diversity in job applications and promotions would be the first method. And if you need diversity, people compile lists of non-default identities that you can look into when you want to hire or have consultancy.
In terms of education and access points, organizations like Girls Who Code and Code Liberation also help make access to programming a lot easier and inclusive.
Nintendo had white males and females, asian males and females, one black male. Probably the most diverse of E3.
Reggie Fils-Aimé was born to Haitian immigrants, who immigrated to the United States due to the conflicting political views of his grandparents. (Wikipedia).
Reggie Fils-Aimé was born to Haitian immigrants, who immigrated to the United States due to the conflicting political views of his grandparents. (Wikipedia).
jabberwocker
Banned
Do you think only one was invited? Seriously if there is need for more diverse marketing crowd... then shouldnt it naturally evolve.
TheSpoiler
Member
It'd be nice if people who weren't minorities thought that way.
schwabdizzle
Banned
Not saying that, but people want to complain about gender all the time. I really do not get it. Are you telling me a game sucks because I cant play as a particular type of person?
jabberwocker
Banned
So japan gets a pass?
Elginer
Member
I had the same thinking and I'm part black. Am I part of the problem?
John Kowalski
Banned
Damn, and i thought the article was kind of mild. E3 gets ugly.
His Majesty
Banned
White men can't be minorities?
LostDonkey
Member
Yes you are! If you ever go somewhere and there are 2 white guys, you must quickly recruit the nearest available black man to make things equal. It must be done!
It's so obvious how insulated some of you guys are. Like... you actually think discussing diversity is "manufactured outrage"? That this doesn't warrant discussion? That minorities wanting to be represented is nitpicking? Ok then.
I guess this thread is good for exposing the closet racists at least.
... are you actually being serious right now I can't actually tell.
I guess this thread is good for exposing the closet racists at least.
... are you actually being serious right now I can't actually tell.
No, but those things are also important. If you're interested in body diversity and queerness, check out Todd Harper's research work.
lightskintwin
Banned
LOLKratos son is ginger, so Kratos dies in this one and God of War 2 with that?
You're missing the point, it's not about one game. It's about the whole direction for the industry. People talk and this conversation needs to happen because this medium is still evolving and no one wants (I hope) for this stasis state where 80% of all games characters is a white guy. Being a white dude on a specific game isn't a problem, it's the whole that's being discussed.
ahah indeed. I guess I can only give up on the idea to understand the point of view of these people (meaning the author). I welcome diversity but this is pure nitpicking to me, it feels like there's no way you can do it right to them.
Plus, how is that diversity only matters for white / black and man / woman? There's an entire world of cultures, people, places and races that gaming has hardly ever touched. Games like Days Gone are quite easy to attack, it's the american white dude with a machine gun against zombies, but on the other hand we have Horizon and TLG, Hellblade, Nier, Mafia 3, Mirror's Edge, Recore and so on, yet some people complain due to the all male cast of FFXV after a good decade of well balanced FF games. Now we complain about presenters, when (for example) Sony give room to anyone at the PS Experience Panels? Come on now, to me this forced way of seeing reality is as unpleasent as someone who doesn't see it at all.
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