Support NeoGAF

[Fracas]

If Halo 4 has a gameplay-altering progression system, maybe it's just for 1 or 2 playlists. Possibly Invasion's successor? I know one thing though: 343 knows what they're doing. They've seen the community's reaction to Reach, and they know exactly what not to do. Bleedthrough appears to be back (although I may have been imagining it), bloom is seemingly dead, and movement looks just like it should. I don't think it's even possible that these guys are going to make the same mistakes that were made in Reach. If armor abilities come back, so be it; I'm sure they will be balanced properly. We're in good hands, guys.

 

[Satchel]

I pray the BR isn't the random inconsistent piece of shit it was in 2 and 3.

DMR is a much better gun. It has rules and they require following.

Who knows how the fuck the BR was set up.

Sometime people would die with one trigger press, other time a whole clip. No system to it at all. Unless of course I was repeatedly exposed to hackers in both games.

 

[higherARC05]

O Goodness I love HALO.

 

[likedamaster]

I'm excited about everything I've heard about Halo 4 so far. Such a good series. Oh, and this...

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

I'll see if we can get some samples for the next Sparkast.

=D

We didn't mention them. That's why I put it in quotes. That term was coined by someone else to interpret stuff they saw in the UI. Not a big deal in the grand scheme of things and to be expected during announce fervor. And yes, it's partly our fault since we re rolling out more information about this stuff at a later time.

Could you clarify whether armor will be purely cosmetic or if there will be gameplay changes tied to armor?

According to Destructoid, Assassinations are back:

Thank god. I just hope they didn't assume that and pass it as fact.

 

[Portugeezer]

I pray the BR isn't the random inconsistent piece of shit it was in 2 and 3.

DMR is a much better gun. It has rules and they require following.

Who knows how the fuck the BR was set up.

Sometime people would die with one trigger press, other time a whole clip. No system to it at all. Unless of course I was repeatedly exposed to hackers in both games.

That makes no sense.

 

[Zeal]

I pray the BR isn't the random inconsistent piece of shit it was in 2 and 3.

DMR is a much better gun. It has rules and they require following.

Who knows how the fuck the BR was set up.

Sometime people would die with one trigger press, other time a whole clip. No system to it at all. Unless of course I was repeatedly exposed to hackers in both games.

This is how I feel. It was always the cheapest, most inconsistent weapon, especially in Halo 2 more so than 3. Difficult to avoid, difficult to shoot, and inconsistent damage.

I'd sometimes get hit across the map with it and instantly die, then you could unload two to three clips on someone else and not even kill them. I didn't really understand it. You at least know you're hitting someone with the DMR and when you're getting hit by it and from where.

 

[TimeEffect]

Frank said they aren't perks, literally moments ago.

Cool your jets.

Perks was not the main concern of that post.

 

[daedalius]

I pray the BR isn't the random inconsistent piece of shit it was in 2 and 3.

DMR is a much better gun. It has rules and they require following.

Who knows how the fuck the BR was set up.

Sometime people would die with one trigger press, other time a whole clip. No system to it at all. Unless of course I was repeatedly exposed to hackers in both games.

It wasn't really inconsistant after the patch in Halo 2.

And I never really had the problems you are referring to in 3

 

[Randolph Freelander]

I pray the BR isn't the random inconsistent piece of shrapnel it was in 2 and 3.

DMR is a much better gun. It has rules and they require following.

Who knows how the fargo the BR was set up.

Sometime people would die with one trigger press, other time a whole clip. No system to it at all.

I thought the BR was perfect in 3. The problem was that it wasn't the default.

Truth be told, if the entire MP was the BR and nothing else: I'm happy. Better a map full of people wielding those than cheap crap like swords, needlers, hammers, and lasers, not to mention the weaksauce dual-wieldable weapons.

Of course, they changed the weapon in Reach, not that I ever played its MP, and only played the SP once. I don't even recall what the DMR is.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

I pray the BR isn't the random inconsistent piece of shit it was in 2 and 3.

DMR is a much better gun. It has rules and they require following.

Who knows how the fuck the BR was set up.

Sometime people would die with one trigger press, other time a whole clip. No system to it at all. Unless of course I was repeatedly exposed to hackers in both games.

It took 4 shots (12 bullets) to kill someone in both games. Halo 2 the BR had no spread and was all dead center of the reticle, Halo 3 it was slightly spread so less effective at range especially with lag. Halo 2 had the same problem with host advantage making it really easy for all of someones burst to be registered, as opposed to off-host lag made it hard to register all bullets in the burst hitting.

 

[JdFoX187]

It wasn't really inconsistant after the patch in Halo 2.

And I never really had the problems you are referring to in 3

Hit detection was absolute shit in Halo 3 for all the weapons. The BR being the most commonly used, and the one that required the most consistency due to its burst and the constant use, was a tragedy. Post-patch Halo 2 didn't have these issues with the tightening of the spread. I certainly prefer that over a single-shot death machine that the DMR has become on any open map.

 

[Tomat]

I like what I see there, more excited now than I was for the announcement that's for damn sure.

 

[Computron]

We didn't mention them. That's why I put it in quotes. That term was coined by someone else to interpret stuff they saw in the UI. Not a big deal in the grand scheme of things and to be expected during announce fervor. And yes, it's partly our fault since we re rolling out more information about this stuff at a later time.

That was my suspicion, that it was the editors own words seeing as there were all sorts of terms used for it across various blogs.

I guess that's the nature of a lot of gaming journalism these days as well.

I hope that it doesn't adversely affect how you guys planned to present this matter. Looking forward to the next drop!

 

[Orayn]

I love everything I've seen and heard about Halo 4 so far, but I'm gripped by the fear that they'll go the CoD route and have non-cosmetic multiplayer unlocks. Please don't do that to us, 343i.

 

[daedalius]

Hit detection was absolute shit in Halo 3 for all the weapons. The BR being the most commonly used, and the one that required the most consistency due to its burst and the constant use, was a tragedy. Post-patch Halo 2 didn't have these issues with the tightening of the spread. I certainly prefer that over a single-shot death machine that the DMR has become on any open map.

I love getting cross-mapped and constantly pinged on big team maps, what are you talking about?!

I love everything I've seen and heard about Halo 4 so far, but I'm gripped by the fear that they'll go the CoD route and have non-cosmetic multiplayer unlocks. Please don't do that to us, 343i.

Frank just said they aren't perks. They aren't like CoD. More info soon.

 

[Falagard]

I believe they said no Dual Wielding.

I agree, the actual info drop was a lot smaller than I was expecting.

No, I don't think anyone has said there will be no dual wielding. Someone link to a video or article that mentions it if so. In fact, googling "Halo 4 dual wielding" in the last 24 hours links back to your reply ;-)

 

[JdFoX187]

I love getting cross-mapped and constantly pinged on big team maps, what are you talking about?!

This is why Evade should not have been removed. It's the only way to avoid those pesky pings :lol

No, I don't think anyone has said there will be no dual wielding. Someone link to a video or article that mentions it if so. In fact, googling "Halo 4 dual wielding" in the last 24 hours links back to your reply ;-)

I would be sad if dual wielding wasn't brought back. It doesn't need to be as prominent as it was in Halo 2, but I still think it has a place in Halo gameplay.

 

[Orayn]

EDIT: I made a post that was hella dumb. You can see its contents in others' quotes.

 

[Havok]

This is why Evade should not have been removed. It's the only way to avoid those pesky pings :lol

:|

Quiet, somebody in charge might think you're serious and delay its removal.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

This is why Evade should not have been removed. It's the only way to avoid those pesky pings :lol



I would be sad if dual wielding wasn't brought back. It doesn't need to be as prominent as it was in Halo 2, but I still think it has a place in Halo gameplay.

Dual wielding makes anything dual-wieldable absolutely worthless. It was a pretty dumb gimmick.

 

[Biggest-Geek-Ever]

Oh fuck, I should have read the OP better.

RIP Halo, yet another franchise falls to CoD shit.

Sigh http://neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35756374&postcount=1032

Edit: Didn't see your edit.

 

[the anime man]

EVERY game that introduced perks, class loadouts, and gameplay progressive unlocks has utterly ruined the core experience it was originally based on

Uncharted 3 is the big one that I remember most recently, I have no confidence in hearing this and by definition, the nature of such features contradicts equality. This removes the fundamental of Halo to favour this insane artificial method of preserving MP games (and I dont doubt that dangling that carrot in front of you has overtaken quality gameplay as the means of getting players to continue supporting the game)

I just am not optimistic at all after reading what I read and history has shown me that all my favorite games have crumbled, despite the PR team assuring me otherwise.

It's not perks I even care about, it's the idea of unlocking gameplay altering mechanics through progression, loadouts, etc. I just think that there are better ways to improve the sequel, and I'm just not confident in hearing something like this. It's not personal, but developers like Guerilla Games, DICE, Zipper, Naughty Dog, etc. have all watered down their games in favor of hyping up features that the core community were valiantly always against, and I dont see Halo 4's introductions of perks (however they may be), class loadouts, and progression unlocks changing that.

I miss the simplicity of running up to an opponent in games like Halo where all that was different between us was the guns we picked up, but with things like perks and whatnot it introduced these advantages other players may not have. Personally, I am absolutely burnt out on such mechanics and am sick of seeing them in so many games.

I agree 100%. I don't mind "perks" or loadouts or anything, it's just the fact that you have to unlock them by continuously playing the game, that's bullshit, I should have that stuff from the start. The only thing that should be unlockable is the cosmetic stuff. The whole progression system where you unlock weapons and other things is what me made stop playing TF2 and CoD because I was sick of having to grind through the MP just to get the weapon I want to use, that's NOT fun at all and I don't wanna see it in Halo.

 

[daedalius]

Oh fuck, I should have read the OP better.

RIP Halo, yet another franchise falls to CoD shit.

EDIT: Might consider forgiving them if there are playlists that give everyone the same non-cosmetic loadouts.

/facepalm

just replied about this.

OT title definitely needs to be 'Halo 4 doesn't have perks'

 

[JdFoX187]

Dual wielding makes anything dual-wieldable absolutely worthless. It was a pretty dumb gimmick.

Halo 3 SMG was more potent than the Assault Rifle. And it's not like the Plasma Rifle in Reach is worth using on its own anyway. The same goes for the Spiker.

 

[Kujo]

I wouldn't mind some perks. I want a perk to not appear on the radar (Cold Blooded) for stealth flanking. As it is now, you can crouch, but you move so-damn-slow that it's not worth the hassle. At the very least, faster crouch walking plz

 

[Devolution]

Gonna go ahead and cross post this so we can get discussion back on track.

 

[rdrr gnr]

Music was good.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

Halo 3 SMG was more potent than the Assault Rifle. And it's not like the Plasma Rifle in Reach is worth using on its own anyway. The same goes for the Spiker.

wat wat and wat


The Plasma Rifle and Spiker aren't even on any of the maps by default, and the Halo 3 SMG was better than the AR if you dual wielded and were up close, at a bit of a range the AR was better.

Dual wielding was stupid. No grenades or melee is a huge imbalanced for another piss-shooter.

Although I now notice a lack of any other weapon in the footage except BR now.

 

[Computron]

Remember when Halo: Reach's first details were trickling out and everyone thought that what eventually ended up as Armor Abilities were perks? It looks to be the same way now.

No journalist saw anything that was called perks, they just interpreted a UI element as something similar to Perks.

 

[Orayn]

Okay, I'm back to my senses and done being melodramatic. I'm open to the idea of unlocks, but I'm still super nervous about the implications. I don't want to play against some guy who spawns with a jetpack, shotgun, and four grenades, while I have no such options because I haven't done enough grinding.

 

[Falagard]

Dual wielding makes anything dual-wieldable absolutely worthless. It was a pretty dumb gimmick.

It makes anything dual wieldable worthless as a single wield weapon, perhaps. However, that was the point of dual wielding, it really allowed many combinations of weapons, and it was a tradeoff because once you threw a grenade you dropped one of your dual wield weapons.

Personally I had the most fun with Halo 2's multiplayer, and now that I think back about it, it was the whole package that made it such an amazing game for me, including dual wielding.

Essentially what happened with dual wielding weapons was that you were creating combined weapons that played differently together. An SMG plus a plasma rifle (my favorite combination) was completely different than two SMGs, which was different from a plasma pistol plus a plasma rifle, etc. The biggest misstep was the needler, which should never have been dual wieldable.

Everyone started with a weak weapon, the SMG, but that could be quickly "upgraded" to dual wielding by finding another SMG or preferably something more potent.

The return of the AR in Halo 3 meant it became the default starting weapon often, and dual wielding become obsolete. I think this made Halo 3 less fun from gunplay perspective than Halo 2.

Dual wielding makes the game more complex, and more dense. Removing dual wielding would simplify the gameplay, but it's one of the things that makes Halo unique. I think that Reach was worse off without it.

 

[shinobi602]

Oh fuck, I should have read the OP better.

RIP Halo, yet another franchise falls to CoD shit.

EDIT: Might consider forgiving them if there are playlists that give everyone the same non-cosmetic loadouts.

*sigh*

 

[IJoel]

So, about the logo... I like it (animation's rather sleek)!

 

[Chittagong]

The only thing I need to know - will join-in-progress be a part of the MP finally? quitters killed Halo 3 and Reach to me.

 

[Satchel]

The only thing I need to know - will join-in-progress be a part of the MP finally? quitters killed Halo 3 and Reach to me.

That's one thing they SHOULD take from cod.

Also, make sure there's bots frank. It's 2012, and eventually, communities die off and services get shut down.

Bots should be mandatory.

 

[Falagard]

Remember when Halo: Reach's first details were trickling out and everyone thought that what eventually ended up as Armor Abilities were perks? It looks to be the same way now.

Ya, but I started out with the idea of giving Armor Abilities a chance, and personally I think they completely fucked up Halo's gameplay.

I think Pandora's box has been opened, and that Halo 4 will have something similar to armor abilities (we've seen sprint in the video, and the back of the Master Chief's armor seems to have an armor ability attachment), but I'm hoping 343 tones them down a LOT.

For example, I'm hoping that Jetpacks evolve into Boosters that just slow your descent or slightly increase your jump height.

We've seen sprint, so either it's in there all the time, or it's an ability. I hope the base movement speed is much faster than Reach, closer to Halo 2's speed, but if so I wonder why sprint would be needed?

I *hope* that if there's some form of evade, that it's toned down completely, to be a short combat roll rather than a 10 foot roll like it is now.

Etc.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Okay, I'm back to my senses and done being melodramatic. I'm open to the idea of unlocks, but I'm still super nervous about the implications. I don't want to play against some guy who spawns with a jetpack, shotgun, and four grenades, while I have no such options because I haven't done enough grinding.

we're all nervous about game-altering abilities, but Frankie said they'll roll out info soon that should put us out at ease.

BELIEVE, Orayn!

 

[nomis]

If they are going to have assassinations, they really shouldn't be random. It would really suck to get one and then get taken down because it took to long.

You realize they aren't random right? Other than in a really bad connection game, some discipline on how long you hold the button will make sure that if you don't want to leave yourself exposed, you can just back-smack and get out of there quick instead.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

It will be interesting to see how this plays out-

There seems to be some sort of truth to armor abilities, or armor being more than cosmetic going by this shot.

 

[Devolution]

I honestly doubt after the crying in Reach that 343 is going to make a system where any sort of abilities aren't available to all either implemented as pick ups or loadouts. It would be so detrimental to what they have going so far and what Halo entails in keeping the game accessible.

 

[GodfatherX]

I honestly doubt after the crying in Reach that 343 is going to make a system where any sort of abilities aren't available to all either implemented as pick ups or loadouts. It would be so detrimental to what they have going so far and what Halo entails in keeping the game accessible.

i think no matter what they decide, they will have a classic playlist so they satisfy all play styles

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

I honestly doubt after the crying in Reach that 343 is going to make a system where any sort of abilities aren't available to all either implemented as pick ups or loadouts. It would be so detrimental to what they have going so far and what Halo entails in keeping the game accessible.

I agree, I can see them as something you can pick up, or something that works more like custom powerups, but with less power. Simple things like spawn with more ammo, more intricate HUD, better Radar, etc. But keep it subtle and not have things like Armor lock or Jetpack.

That said, I think the Jetpack is back, but maybe it is more like a vehicle this time.

Jetpack?

Grenadier Loadout?

AA pack on back?

Still, I think things will be different than whatever assumptions we make, and 343 won't do us wrong.

 

[Poker Face]

We didn't mention them. That's why I put it in quotes. That term was coined by someone else to interpret stuff they saw in the UI. Not a big deal in the grand scheme of things and to be expected during announce fervor. And yes, it's partly our fault since we re rolling out more information about this stuff at a later time.

You have literally restored my hype back to level 99.

 

[Devolution]

If anything like jetpack is in for the love of god let me change the sensitivity on the y-axis or make it faster.

 

[Portugeezer]

The only thing I need to know - will join-in-progress be a part of the MP finally? quitters killed Halo 3 and Reach to me.

I hope not. They just need a more meaningful way of punishing quitters, otherwise people will just start rage quitting when something doesn't go their way even at the start of the match.

I like Halo's matchmaking, when you find a match you feel like you're gonna settle down to beat the other team, quitting not an option, if someone quits you have an excuse for doing badly anyway.

Actually, if they do have join-in-progress, then it better be a search option I can turn off.

 

[FateBreaker]

The only thing I need to know - will join-in-progress be a part of the MP finally? quitters killed Halo 3 and Reach to me.

I hope not.

 

[AllIsOneIsNone]

I really trust 343i with their level progression implementation even though I don't know what it is yet. They knew fans would have growing pains with this one but they're doing it anyway cause they think it'll make a better game. From what I've seen so far, it seems like they know what they're doing. The immediate comparison to other games like COD and the like really tickles me; its just all unfolding into the classic chaotic assertions that we've come to know and...love?

Not that I don't think there are some valid concerns, but it comes down to the fact that there's a great group of developers on this and we just need more info before we can make any real judgement.

 

[NullPointer]

Gonna go ahead and cross post this so we can get discussion back on track.

Great impressions Devo. I can already feel my hype glands quivering.

 

[Poker Face]

brightened the image so we can see better