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[Zeouterlimits]

Modding? Where do you draw the line?

Let me paint you a picture:
Imagine a Chik'thar hive maiden scuttling out of her mottled carapace. Her inviting, translucent thorax heaving with ripe larvae. She retracts her guard plates, where forty alien breasts bristle with nipples.

 

[Rickenslacker]

It was definitely a dammed if you do, dammed if you don't situation though. A lot of people were pretty much done with Halo after 3 and even more after Reach as they felt the series had stagnated. 343 picked up the IP in a position that they needed to breathe some life back into it, and took the criticisms that Halo hadn't changed over the years to heart. They just went a bit too far with their new interpretation, and borrowed a bit too much from the current "kings" of multiplayer gaming.

I think Halo 5 will show that 343 has the ability to adapt to the fans and will cater more to the old school Halo base, as they've seen how quickly the game has fallen off (and started reacting to that trend with updates refining the core gameplay).

If they would have just made Halo 3.5 or something they would have lost people due to series fatigue, but they went a bit too far on the other end, revamping pretty much everything except the very very base of the game. I think Halo 5 will be a more refined, better Halo experience.

I don't think there's a damned if you do, as there was never a backlash against a Halo doing what Halo did best. It just comes off as a perceived damned if you do because that's the easy thing to fall back on. It's not that hard to see what went wrong with Reach, and it's pretty easy to peg some big problems with each game in the series. If you took all that and made the most refined no nonsense Halo-ass Halo game out there, that'd be a damned if you do? Nah.

That is to say, I think the framework of what would have made for an amazing pure Halo game is easy to conceptualize, but executing that would have still been challenging. Seeing features cut from Halo 4 seems to tell as much.

I think the most damning thing is what they've done now. They come from Reach and make a game that's even worse in ways, and now they have their work cut out for them because they're not justifying just a game purchase with Halo 5, but a whole new platform; one that's also doing no favours for itself. I mean I don't think everything 343's added was bad or anything, the railgun is a great new weapon (among most of the promethean stinkers), but just think of the changes before going through with them next time. CTF where the flag magnetizes onto you, can't be dropped, and comes with a fudged in infinite ammo pistol that does slightly more damage than the regular one? What? Nothing about that even sounded well designed or elegant.

Though all this wouldn't even matter to me if CEA had multiplayer.

 

[Madness]

It was definitely a dammed if you do, dammed if you don't situation though. A lot of people were pretty much done with Halo after 3 and even more after Reach as they felt the series had stagnated. 343 picked up the IP in a position that they needed to breathe some life back into it, and took the criticisms that Halo hadn't changed over the years to heart. They just went a bit too far with their new interpretation, and borrowed a bit too much from the current "kings" of multiplayer gaming.

I think Halo 5 will show that 343 has the ability to adapt to the fans and will cater more to the old school Halo base, as they've seen how quickly the game has fallen off (and started reacting to that trend with updates refining the core gameplay).

If they would have just made Halo 3.5 or something they would have lost people due to series fatigue, but they went a bit too far on the other end, revamping pretty much everything except the very very base of the game. I think Halo 5 will be a more refined, better Halo experience.

Whoa whoa, I agree with the fact it's more series fatigue and disinterest that has contributed to Halo's decline as opposed to because of Call of Duty etc, I can't buy that a lot of people were done after Halo 3.

Look at the massive sales for ODST which was a full price game for basically a map pack and like a 5 hour campaign expansion. Look at the hours and hours people played Firefight.

I think Reach was the turning point. It was a jack of all trades game, master of none. Another huge problem was the transition and turnover. Plus lack of support post launch. Then, when CEA came, you basically fragmented the population to those playing Reach or Anniversary.

And then coming off Reach, there was hope 343 would instead return to Halo 1-3 roots, but they modeled multiplayer off of Reach. Coupled with a lack of things like firefight (I know people didn't like Reach's firefight much, but it was still decent to play), no campaign scoring or theater for guys who like to speed runs etc. And you have a sharp drop off of fans.

It's why so many 'hardcore' (don't like the term) Halo fans are now wary of the series. You'll see it well upto the launch of Halo 5(Halo One), a type of indifference until they actually play.

I'm excited for Halo 5. They have hired new guys who understand how Halo is played. They took our criticisms of Spartan Ops and made season 2 better. Slayer Pro in BTB is some of the most fun I've had in a long time. With the promise of dedicated servers, 60 FPS gameplay next gen, Halo could be amazing again.

While I'm a huge fan of Bungie, I've seen Destiny gameplay like 20 times now, no matter what, I just can't get into that. It's like Call of Duty meets Borderlands. So Halo 5 has to deliver.

 

[daedalius]

I think the most damning thing is what they've done now. They come from Reach and make a game that's even worse in ways, and now they have their work cut out for them because they're not justifying just a game purchase with Halo 5, but a whole new platform; one that's also doing no favours for itself. I mean I don't think everything 343's added was bad or anything, the railgun is a great new weapon (among most of the promethean stinkers), but just think of the changes before going through with them next time. CTF where the flag magnetizes onto you, can't be dropped, and comes with a fudged in infinite ammo pistol that does slightly more damage than the regular one? What? Nothing about that even sounded well designed or elegant.

So "the game is worse in ways" and the damning thing you cite is CTF and bad promethean weapons?

I mean, I don't like the auto-flag pickup either, but I do like having a weapon and moving at full speed.

 

[Dongs Macabre]

Oh wait, I just realised that Vengeance is an actual medal in Halo 4 for killing an enemy who stole your Ordnance. Huh, and I thought it was an unused sound file or something.

 

[Rickenslacker]

So "the game is worse in ways" and the damning thing you cite is CTF and bad promethean weapons?

I mean, I don't like the auto-flag pickup either, but I do like having a weapon and moving at full speed.

I think weapons are some of the more easier things to accept as far as additions go, but things like binary rifle and icannon still seem bad, even with the power weapon angle. Bolt shot is conceptually fine and is a good weapon all its own, but the loadouts skewed that perception.

CTF just exemplified a change that makes no sense to me. When I think of things that go wrong in Halo 4, my mind instantly darts to CTF solely because the changes seem out of nowhere, don't seem to help anything, and just makes me wonder who would design it like that. The pistol is the most baffling thing, you make this weird special case to have an infinite ammo and slightly buffed pistol? Huh?! Even if the most egregious fault of the mode was the undroppable flag, the pistol baffles me.

There are other things I could cite but the purpose of the post wasn't to list sore spots in Halo 4.

 

[Stinkles]

Let me paint you a picture:
Imagine a Chik'thar hive maiden scuttling out of her mottled carapace. Her inviting, translucent thorax heaving with ripe larvae. She retracts her guard plates, where forty alien breasts bristle with nipples.

that is the line alright.

 

[Gabotron ES]

Oh wait, I just realised that Vengeance is an actual medal in Halo 4 for killing an enemy who stole your Ordnance. Huh, and I thought it was an unused sound file or something.

Assassinations, beat downs, and stick kills demote the player you killed. Suicides also demote you. You get a Vengeance medal for demoting someone (because it sounds cool and can't normally be obtained in this gametype since ordnance is disabled), and there's a custom stat for how many vengeances a player earns.

Megalo it's a crazy.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Frankie: probably too early to ask, but are we going to get a soundtrack release for Spartan Assault? I doubt it would merit a physical release but some lossless FLAC is always worth a look to buy.

 

[FyreWulff]

Since XNA is dead now, a cool thing 343 could think to do is expose scripting tools online via the webcloud(tm). You'd script the gametype on halowaypoint.com and then send it to your box. You could also set the weapon parameters via this web interface.

Since you'd be editing via da webs, and it sends to the Xbox (or fileshare), it'd keep the gametypes inside the Live walled garden. 343 could control the parameters while the power users get a more powerful tool than what the ingame interface provides. There's other ways to do this, but this is something that could theoretically be done post-ship.

Really, I've been wanting web editing of gametypes since Halo 3 could send gametypes to your box for you. It'd certainly help the sustain team if they could just snag Megalo scripts off someone's share and clean them up for use in matchmaking, instead of having to start every idea from scratch. And even if you don't use them in matchmaking, your userbase is providing new content for free for your game. And even people that just want to be able to make instant-kill plasma pistols and 500 round-per-second shotguns would have access to those settings without having to wait for 343 to make the crazy gametype.

 

[Cow]

No sprint and Ranked/Social playlists on Halo 5 will be the determining factors as to whether it's time for me to let Halo go. I realise Halo 4 was 343's first attempt at their own Halo, I just hope they can learn from their mistakes and take Halo back to its roots with Halo 5, not push it further away from what it is. It feels like Halo is trying too hard to be something it isn't. I think the difference this time around, is that people will be skeptical and will wait to see what Halo 5 is like before they buy it rather than just falling for the hype again. People expected a sequel to Halo 3 and we got another version of Halo Reach. I highly doubt 343 will remove armour abilities and sprint, so it could well be the end of Halo for me. I guess we'll see what happens.

 

[Dongs Macabre]

No sprint and Ranked/Social playlists on Halo 5 will be the determining factors as to whether it's time for me to let Halo go. I realise Halo 4 was 343's first attempt at their own Halo, I just hope they can learn from their mistakes and take Halo back to its roots with Halo 5, not push it further away from what it is. It feels like Halo is trying too hard to be something it isn't. I think the difference this time around, is that people will be skeptical and will wait to see what Halo 5 is like before they buy it rather than just falling for the hype again. People expected a sequel to Halo 3 and we got another version of Halo Reach. I highly doubt 343 will remove armour abilities and sprint, so it could well be the end of Halo for me. I guess we'll see what happens.

Perhaps keep Armour Abilities to custom games and a couple of playlists?

 

[daedalius]

Pretty sure we don't need to see a ranked/social split, dividing the player-base needlessly seems like a bad idea.

Also, you're going to get high levels of competition at the top ranks of each playlist regardless. As long as equivalent 1-50 exists.

Sprint will never be gone, but it might be a toggle for customs.

 

[Cow]

Pretty sure we don't need to see a ranked/social split, dividing the player-base needlessly seems like a bad idea.

Also, you're going to get high levels of competition at the top ranks of each playlist regardless. As long as equivalent 1-50 exists.

Sprint will never be gone, but it might be a toggle for customs.

I think sprint is the biggest issue with Halo 4 (other than ordnance), it has stretched out maps and along with armour abilities has made Halo messy. I suppose Ranked/Social split is a smaller issue but I still think it needs to be addressed; I loved having the option to play social if I wanted to relax and didn't want to try my hardest or friends were over playing with me.

 

[Nebula]

Sprint shouldn't have been introduced in any form. Keep Thruster Pack and lose everything else.

 

[Cow]

Sprint shouldn't have been introduced in any form. Keep Thruster Pack and lose everything else.

Actually I should explain myself a bit more, I am all for armour abilities in Halo. As long as you cannot spawn with them and they are the equivalent of power ups on the map.

 

[xxjuicesxx]

Pretty sure we don't need to see a ranked/social split, dividing the player-base needlessly seems like a bad idea.

Also, you're going to get high levels of competition at the top ranks of each playlist regardless. As long as equivalent 1-50 exists.

Sprint will never be gone, but it might be a toggle for customs.

You need a split because some people play competitively and some dont, and also some like to see where they stand and have no motivation without. It encourages more players to play ultimately. Without the number people dont care or wont play correctly. Plus worse players will get matched up with better players and become disinterested, Trueskill is a joke and the number matching helps trueskill work better.

They need to keep all the crap they added, but leave it as optional powerups/pickups. This way you can have your social/evolving Halo gameplay but literally it will be default competitive Halo if you make custom maps without them.

This means the focus can be less on how can we patch in gametypes that do or do not have the additions of Halo and more on the balance of what do people want and what do people not want.

So on day one you can have your Team Hardcore mode which would be the default maps but someone went into them in Forge and removed all the bonus stuff and stripped the game down to teamwork and a more core gunplay + the power weapons (rockets/sniper/whatever) If ordnance remains this playlist would just use no ordnance option that would be added.

This assumes we go back to pre designed loadouts for playlists and perks are removed or turned into powerups where applicable. AKA you can automatically pickup grenades by default again but that will be an option in settings for playlists that demand it. Flinch will be disable by default but will remain an option in settings.

Sprint would be an AA pickup again and would not be default in any playlist. If you have sprint you cannot have another AA like jetpack, Unlike Halo 4 where you can have sprint and an AA which is just TOO MUCH.

Regarding Ranked/Unranked thats up to playlist manage but I would put some of the evolved Halo with the crap in a Slayer playlist like a ranked Team Slayer, have a ranked Team Hardcore(MLG), and a ranked Team objective, then I'd have an unranked Team Slayer and unranked Team Objective + 1 player (squad slayer). No unranked competitive list.

Unranked would also have multiteam + revolving weekly + BTB + and a team training mercenaries playlist.
Ranked would also have doubles, snipes, swat and FFA.

Thats 13 n I dont think I missed anything.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Sprint shouldn't have been introduced in any form. Keep Thruster Pack and lose everything else.

Sprint is 100% needed in Halo. You can throw away all AA's but sprint must remain.

 

[IHaveIce]

Gun Game? Fun, good. We should look at it conceptually.

Modding? Where do you draw the line?

Gun Game would be awesome in Halo, last weapon to make a kill with? What would you guys say? Plasma Pistol or Pulse Nude in Halo 4

And to your question

Matchmaking is a good spot to draw the line. If you mod in actual games then you get banned. If you create sweet gametypes then you should be able to play and share them freely.

Here here.

Its almost like everyone in console land forgets that mods on PC are a wonderful thing that extends longevity. Just because dicks used mods to "win" in previous games doesn't mean shit like this should be discouraged. I think the line to draw would be quite simple.

These posts are so right, it would hurt to miss them.

Hacking and modding online in matchmaking is of course bullshit. But sharing it for customs? Awesome. Let us look at Halo CE on PC, the mods are insane and sooooooo good.

Sadly consoles aen't as supportive

Sprint is 100% needed in Halo. You can throw away all AA's but sprint must remain.

As soon as you can find a reason besides "it looks more realistic" somebody could discuss this with you. But normal faster movement speed > sprint.

 

[Cow]

Sprint is 100% needed in Halo. You can throw away all AA's but sprint must remain.

Sprint is not needed, a faster base movement is what is needed. Something that is more responsive to changing directions as well. Halo 4 is clunky when it comes to movement.

 

[xxjuicesxx]

Sprint is 100% needed in Halo. You can throw away all AA's but sprint must remain.

Thats actually an opinion. I'd leave it as a pickup, but Halo did do fine without it, Halo CE did OK, Halo 2 did pretty good, Halo 3 did OK.

At this point its a neccessary evil. That needs to be unfocused but kept.

 

[Nebula]

Sprint is 100% needed in Halo. You can throw away all AA's but sprint must remain.

Please explain.

 

[Poker Face]

Sprint is 100% needed in Halo. You can throw away all AA's but sprint must remain.

Not 100% needed.

I can understand why people like it, but fast base movement speed is much better.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Sprint is 100% needed in Halo. You can throw away all AA's but sprint must remain.

Wrong. Incorrect. False.

Spoiler

I don't think they're going to remove Sprint.

 

[Nebula]

Wrong. Incorrect. False.

Spoiler

I don't think they're going to remove Sprint.

Spoiler

I know they will not.

 

[Homeboyd]

Sprint is 100% needed in Halo. You can throw away all AA's but sprint must remain.

No

 

[daedalius]

Sprint, at least now with current tuning, is a trade-off. It really wasn't in Reach, and less-so before the tuning update.

If you get caught sprinting by someone else, you are probably going to die/lose that battle.

 

[Self Induced]

I liked evade in Reach waaayyy better than thruster pack in Halo 4.

Thruster pack is just borderline worthless, I always forget to use it when I have it equipped. In fact, I usually forget to use my AA's in general which is why I equip regen field. It can be ridiculously op sometimes, I wonder why more people don't use it.

 

[Tawpgun]

Sprint is 100% needed in Halo. You can throw away all AA's but sprint must remain.

TIL Halo CE-3 were broken

 

[Steelyuhas]

Sprint is 100% needed in Halo. You can throw away all AA's but sprint must remain.

History would call you a liar.

 

[Domino Theory]

Halo is one of those games that didn't need to "catch up" to other shooters by incorporating typical mechanics like sprint, perks, etc. Just like Call of Duty found its hidden treasure through those mechanics, Halo always had its hidden treasure through what it was already about: natively fast walking speed, natively high jump height, strong weapons, melee, and grenades.

Things like armor abilities (that directly affect another player or the environment) and armor mods (that ended up stripping the player of pre-existing mechanics and simply re-introducing them as 'unique' items) take away from the advantage and distinction that Halo already had as a shooter.

If Halo should have anything new incorporated into it in the future, it should be something that is new OVERALL and not "new to the franchise" which basically means copy pasting a mechanic that worked for that OTHER shooter into Halo assuming it'll work just as good (Hint: it won't).

You can't take two wheels off a pick up truck and call it the strongest motorcycle ever built.

 

[xxjuicesxx]

Yea

Wonder who got the MP Designer job.

Halos just never going to get good again.

 

[Nebula]

I liked evade in Reach waaayyy better than thruster pack in Halo 4.

Thruster pack is just borderline worthless, I always forget to use it when I have it equipped. In fact, I usually forget to use my AA's in general which is why I equip regen field. It can be ridiculously op sometimes, I wonder why more people don't use it.

It has many uses. Dropping down from somewhere faster, manipulating gravity lifts and changing direction mid jump to land somewhere your enemy might not have expected. The only issue I have with it is that it drags you in and out of third person when it doesn't need to.

Evade was borked and looked silly. Dem hitbox issues.

 

[daedalius]

Yea

Wonder who got the MP Designer job.

Halos just never going to get good again.

Quinn and Bravo are there, and they were behind the current tuning.

I don't know if you like it, but it sure seems pretty solid to me.


Evade in Reach on Spartans was ridiculous OP.

 

[User 73706]

Idea:

-Use dominion base monitor 4 foot for reference
-Make a flat surface a mile long
-Have a Spartan with 110% speed and unlimited sprint run it
-Time it to calculate how fast Spartans run!

 

[Poker Face]

Quinn and Bravo are there, and they were behind the current tuning.

I don't know if you like it, but it sure seems pretty solid to me.


Evade in Reach on Spartans was ridiculous OP.

I'm glad they're at 343. I just wonder how much influence they are going to have in the next game.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Why faster movement speed and not sprint. Eventually don't those essentially become the same thing? If issue is changing direction and strafing while sprinting, fix it. Halo worked without it, but always felt slow. Taking ages to walk across Blood Gulch is not my idea of "good." On small maps it's fine disabled, but for anything big team I think it's needed.

Toggle sprint based on map type?

 

[Steelyuhas]

Idea:

-Use dominion base monitor 4 foot for reference
-Make a flat surface a mike long
-Have a Spartan with 110% speed and unlimited sprint run it
-Time it to calculate how fast Spartans run!

 

[xxjuicesxx]

Why faster movement speed and not sprint. Eventually don't those essentially become the same thing? If issue is changing direction and strafing while sprinting, fix it. Halo worked without it, but always felt slow. Taking ages to walk across Blood Gulch is not my idea of "good." On small maps it's fine disabled, but for anything big team I think it's needed.

Toggle sprint based on map type?

Just more mongoosen and sprint pickups on the bigger maps.

 

[Rickenslacker]

Why faster movement speed and not sprint. Eventually don't those essentially become the same thing?

Uh, no. Not in the slightest. You can move in all directions with regular movement, you can shoot during it, and it doesn't come with a cooldown timer. Sprint is just limited forward movement that you need to repeatedly do. Regular movement doesn't need an extra button either.

And Halo had vehicles for a reason. You want sprint, hop on a Mongoose. Map doesn't have a Mongoose? It's small enough that sprint would be dumb for it anyhow.

 

[daedalius]

I'm glad they're at 343. I just wonder how much influence they are going to have in the next game.

I imagine quite a bit over multiplayer, at least.

I do hope they go crazy over the top in campaign though, and anything cooperative. They will be competing with Destiny after all.

Toggle sprint based on map type?

Ew. Just give fast movement speed AND sprint.

This really is a dead-end discussion though, sprint is never going away, the most we(does not necessarily include ME, personally I like sprint) can hope for is a toggle for customs.

 

[User 73706]

Why faster movement speed and not sprint. Eventually don't those essentially become the same thing? If issue is changing direction and strafing while sprinting, fix it. Halo worked without it, but always felt slow. Taking ages to walk across Blood Gulch is not my idea of "good." On small maps it's fine disabled, but for anything big team I think it's needed.

Toggle sprint based on map type?

Just give us a good movement speed and strafe. Sustained forward movement changes the animation to that of sprinting but without reducing mobility or adding weapon draw frames.

eggheads

 

[Tawpgun]

Halo is one of those games that didn't need to "catch up" to other shooters by incorporating typical mechanics like sprint, perks, etc. Just like Call of Duty found its hidden treasure through those mechanics, Halo always had its hidden treasure through what it was already about: natively fast walking speed, natively high jump height, strong weapons, melee, and grenades.

Things like armor abilities (that directly affect another player or the environment) and armor mods (that ended up stripping the player of pre-existing mechanics and simply re-introducing them as 'unique' items) take away from the advantage and distinction that Halo already had as a shooter.

If Halo should have anything new incorporated into it in the future, it should be something that is new OVERALL and not "new to the franchise" which basically means copy pasting a mechanic that worked for that OTHER shooter into Halo assuming it'll work just as good (Hint: it won't).

You can't take two wheels off a pick up truck and call it the strongest motorcycle ever built.

Yes.

Why faster movement speed and not sprint. Eventually don't those essentially become the same thing? If issue is changing direction and strafing while sprinting, fix it. Halo worked without it, but always felt slow. Taking ages to walk across Blood Gulch is not my idea of "good." On small maps it's fine disabled, but for anything big team I think it's needed.

Toggle sprint based on map type?

No.

 

[Fracas]

Sprint serves as little more than a get-out-of-jail-free card when a player rushes into a bad situation. I don't think it belongs in Halo.

 

[Self Induced]

Halo is one of those games that didn't need to "catch up" to other shooters by incorporating typical mechanics like sprint, perks, etc. Just like Call of Duty found its hidden treasure through those mechanics, Halo always had its hidden treasure through what it was already about: natively fast walking speed, natively high jump height, strong weapons, melee, and grenades.

Things like armor abilities (that directly affect another player or the environment) and armor mods (that ended up stripping the player of pre-existing mechanics and simply re-introducing them as 'unique' items) take away from the advantage and distinction that Halo already had as a shooter.

If Halo should have anything new incorporated into it in the future, it should be something that is new OVERALL and not "new to the franchise" which basically means copy pasting a mechanic that worked for that OTHER shooter into Halo assuming it'll work just as good (Hint: it won't).

You can't take two wheels off a pick up truck and call it the strongest motorcycle ever built.

This is why when Halo 3 is made free to download I'll be playing it and not Halo 4 or Reach.

 

[User 73706]

Gonna doodle some vehicles real quick but does anyone want to get on Halo Fore for map testing in like 50 minutes?

(that's 9 CST for you plebs)

 

[FyreWulff]

Sprint serves as little more than a get-out-of-jail-free card when a player rushes into a bad situation. I don't think it belongs in Halo.

but i wanna go fast

 

[Fuchsdh]

Gonna doodle some vehicles real quick but does anyone want to get on Halo Fore for map testing in like 50 minutes?

(that's 9 CST for you plebs)

I can help out if you need someone.

EDIT: Annndd internet is down. Nvm.

 

[daedalius]

Sprint serves as little more than a get-out-of-jail-free card when a player rushes into a bad situation. I don't think it belongs in Halo.

This isn't really true, if you sprint into a bad situation in a highly competitive game, you're dead.

 

[Nebula]

The few games I did play with the WTU active made me sprint a lot less because I'd be down by 2-3 shots before I could even stop sprinting and get a shot in, which wasn't great.