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[Mibu no ookami]

Steam gets a lot of credit for this and Palworld. Its just a storefront created with these goals in mind.

These games wouldn’t be as popular with the way Sony / Nintendo operate.

I do believe Circana data was correct. 50-50 sales split was close to launch, before it went viral.

If Nintendo create a PC storefront and released Zelda, Mario Kart, and Animal Crossing on it. Would it be successful?

If Nintendo launched an MMORPG based on Pokemon would it be more or less successful than Palworld?

 

[StueyDuck]

Steam gets a lot of credit for this and Palworld. Its just a storefront created with these goals in mind.

These games wouldn’t be as popular with the way Sony / Nintendo operate.

I do believe Circana data was correct. 50-50 sales split was close to launch, before it went viral.

I think the biggest factor with steam and PC gaming is that the games are cheaper honestly.

Steam allowing key resellers, without gmgs far cheaper license for HD2 I probably would of just got it on PS5 and saved myself the hassle, especially since I'm a trophy whore for games I like.

But it was significantly cheaper on PC for me and most my mates were getting it on PC too so that's where I ended up.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

If I'm Sony and Epic, I would create a 50-50 joint venture and have that joint venture take over the Epic Game Store rebranded as the PlayStation Store.

Epic games would exist royalty-free and Sony games would exist royalty-free. They would then split royalties of 3rd party game sales 50-50.

Publishers would pay 20% royalty on games with reduced royalties for games that were either A) exclusive B) used unreal engine and C) existed on the PlayStation PS5 store.

I would limit the number of free games outside of people who subscribe to PS+, Epic would get a share of PS+ subscriber fees on PC.

I would then integrate PS trophies and game saves across PS4/5 and PC for supported titles.

I would take PS+ Premium and add Crunchyroll ad-free across PS and PC, meaning 120+ million people would be incentivized to get PS+, and utilize PS+ either on PC or PS5.

In other words, there are a lot of ways to make this work and a lot of ways to entice people to use this instead of Steam.

 

[Three]

None of their games before this really fit the criteria of their modern strategy here. Even MLB and GT7 don't. This game released on PS5 and PC and is GaaS. MLB and GT7 are GaaS-lite.

Sony Online Entertainment fell under Sony Pictures and only shortly under SIE before being sold off. They've never been dedicated to PC and GaaS like they are now.

This is definitely their first true attempt at this.

Umm, not even with DC Universe Online? It's all well and good trying to define it differently based on how much GaaS it is, subsidiary or length of time under a division but I mean Sony in general here. It's not their first rodeo.

 

[Porticus]

Oh my god your insanity is higher than I thought, this would be a major fuck up for Sony because it would tarnish their image being attached to a storefront that has nearly 0% goodwill for the PC players, same pool of people they would like to sell those games.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

If Nintendo create a PC storefront and released Zelda, Mario Kart, and Animal Crossing on it. Would it be successful?

If Nintendo launched an MMORPG based on Pokemon would it be more or less successful than Palworld?

Talking specifically about these 2 games.

Steam has this feedback loop that makes its popular games go bigger and bigger.

If you make a storefront and ignore Steam, you will get same result you have been for many years. Same 20 million of your fans will buy your game again.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Umm, not even with DC Universe Online? It's all well and good trying to define it differently based on how much GaaS it is, subsidiary or length of time under a division but I mean Sony in general here. It's not their first rodeo.

Again Sony Online Entertainment for the majority of their life had been their own thing. Even when they fell under SIE eventually, Sony never really had much interest in them.

 

[Guilty_AI]

GT7 would be a bit hard because they're partnered with the F1 racing league IIRC, and PC is rampant with cheating and mods for unfair boosts.

Assetto Corsa Competizione is also partnered with FIA and the game is not only on PC and Steam but also doesn't force you to be online. So yeah, the moaning about "muh cheaters, muh mods" is not a valid excuse.

 

[Three]

Again Sony Online Entertainment for the majority of their life had been their own thing. Even when they fell under SIE eventually, Sony never really had much interest in them.

That's why I said they "had a division if you go back far enough" but it was Sony interest and they had GaaS games releasing simultaneously on PS and PC. Even though the market is different now this still isn't their first attempt.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Oh my god your insanity is higher than I thought, this would be a major fuck up for Sony because it would tarnish their image being attached to a storefront that has nearly 0% goodwill for the PC players, same pool of people they would like to sell those games.

Note how you don't argue the merits. I specifically said that the store would be rebranded and reformed. All Sony would be using is the infrastructure, but it would essentially be PS Store but on PC.

Epic's biggest problem is that they don't have their own exclusive games outside of Fortnite. Yeah, a lot of people don't like their storefront in general, but again that changes with a rebrand and a retooling. This is why Epic reached out to Sony to try to get their games exclusive when they heard they were entering the PC market, but Sony refused.

Talking specifically about these 2 games.

Steam has this feedback loop that makes its popular games go bigger and bigger.

If you make a storefront and ignore Steam, you will get same result you have been for many years. Same 20 million of your fans will buy your game again.

That's just because they are transparent with their metrics.

There are other ways to make games go viral. Look at Splatoon.

Again, try and focus on why others have failed rather than assuming ANYONE will fail no matter what.

If you put Mario Kart on PC, people are going to buy it just like they buy Fortnite. The difference between Epic and Nintendo is that Epic only has 1 game, Nintendo has multiple.

If you can't explain to me why Fortnite is popular despite not being on Steam you can't make an argument as to why additional games can't be popular on PC without Steam.

 

[Damigos]

I honestly did not expect this

 

[Mibu no ookami]

That's why I said they "had a division if you go back far enough" but it was Sony interest and they had GaaS games releasing simultaneously on PS and PC. Even though the market is different now this still isn't their first attempt.

Except this IS the first time they themselves have been involved. They inherited SOE from Sony Pictures but they were never part of their strategy, hence why they sold them and their IP everquest.

They weren't a division, they were a subsidiary.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

That's just because they are transparent with their metrics.

There are other ways to make games go viral. Look at Splatoon.

Again, try and focus on why others have failed rather than assuming ANYONE will fail no matter what.

If you put Mario Kart on PC, people are going to buy it just like they buy Fortnite. The difference between Epic and Nintendo is that Epic only has 1 game, Nintendo has multiple.

If you can't explain to me why Fortnite is popular despite not being on Steam you can't make an argument as to why additional games can't be popular on PC without Steam.

Not saying impossible to succeed without Steam. But smarter to go with biggest player in market and appeal to that audience. They will do the work for you if they like your game.

How Splatoon would’ve done with simultaneous steam release we will never know.

If you want Fortnite level monster success. You need to pull all stops.

 

[Porticus]

You think too much as a higher up suit, trying to maximize profit without really understanding how the real world look.

No, you can't simply rebrand the Epic store.

 

[Three]

Except this IS the first time they themselves have been involved. They inherited SOE from Sony Pictures but they were never part of their strategy, hence why they sold them and their IP everquest.

They weren't a division, they were a subsidiary.

Not sure why you're being pedantic but, Sony Computer Entertainment (now named SIE) were in direct control of SoE as a subsidiary for a long time so to suggest that was Sony Pictures when they released DC Universe Online is just nonsense. SoE was a subsidiary of SCE since 2006. They sold them in 2015. That's not a short time. They released GaaS games in that time. Sure they might value GaaS more now with todays market but your excuses as to why this or that don't count is irrelevant.

 

[Ic3man]

PC day 1

 

[Little Mac]

For any PS5 players here, is the game a must buy?

 

[Portugeezer]

Remember when Helldivers 2 was usually ignored in all the Q1 2024 conversations with Yakuza 8, P3R, FF7 Rebirth, Dragon's Dogma 2, etc.?

You can blame Sony for that.

 

[Ronin_7]

For any PS5 players here, is the game a must buy?

Yes when the servers are fixed.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Not sure why you're being pedantic but, Sony Computer Entertainment (now named SIE) were in direct control of SoE as a subsidiary for a long time so to suggest that was Sony Pictures when they released DC Universe Online is just nonsense. SoE was a subsidiary of SCE since 2006. They sold them in 2015. That's not a short time. They released GaaS games in that time. Sure they might value GaaS more now with todays market but your excuses as to why this or that don't count is irrelevant.

I didn't suggest that they were under SPE when they released DCUO.

What I said was that they were never in line with their strategy nor did they publish their games. They were famously at odds with then SCE.

To suggest that SCE had GaaS as part of their strategy back then is beyond misleading. This is the first time the parent company has tried to have any relevant GaaS strategy.

That SOE fell under SCE at all was merely paperwork, paperwork rectified when SCE sold them. It's not that they value it more now, they were entirely against it back then. The only reason why SOE fell under SCE is because Sony Corp at the time reshuffled them under them because it made more sense to align them under SCE. That doesn't make SOE's strategy SCE's.

Again, show me any of those games that were published by SCE or explain to me why SCE didn't publish them or why this being SIE's first published GaaS game doesn't matter.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Not saying impossible to succeed without Steam. But smarter to go with biggest player in market and appeal to that audience. They will do the work for you if they like your game.

How Splatoon would’ve done with simultaneous steam release we will never know.

If you want Fortnite level monster success. You need to pull all stops.

Creating your own storefront is a long term investment in protecting your margins and generating additional revenue outside of your own production.

Most individual publishers like EA, T2, and Ubisoft can publish their own games on their own storefront, but they don't tend to publish other publishers games.

Epic publishes other publishers games but they lack many of their own.

Is Sony in the same position? Or are they uniquely qualified as a storefront owner to do both? And do you think that the lack of 3rd party and 1st party games has nothing to do with the reasons why these other companies failed?

 

[Gudji]

Sony make a special ops team you dumb fucks.

Seems they already getting help shit just takes time.

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

This game is something else lol.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

This game is something else lol.

This has 1.7 million views on his tiktok. That's advertising you just can't buy...

 

[Heisenberg007]

Remember when Helldivers 2 was usually ignored in all the Q1 2024 conversations with Yakuza 8, P3R, FF7 Rebirth, Dragon's Dogma 2, etc.?

Jim Ryan:

 

[Tomi]

How Sony always makes some huge hits

Megaton numbers indeed

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I immediately disregarded Fairgames as DoA when I saw the trailer. But then I remembered how wrong I was thinking Fortnite wouldn't survive more than a year. I also wrote Helldivers off as maybe being fun for a week and having no shot at being a big deal. Pretty humbling reminder that I'm not as in tune with the market as I sometimes think.

The problem surrounding the Fairgame$ criticism was that 100% of it was coming from single player gamers. There isn't a single multiplayer gamer who wrote the game off based on a CGI trailer.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Sony make a special ops team you dumb fucks.

An elite unit of trained killers who go around eliminating players who already bought the game and are clogging up the queue?

I think that's immoral, unethical, and borderline evil.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

The problem surrounding the Fairgame$ criticism was that 100% of it was coming from single player gamers. There isn't a single multiplayer gamer who wrote the game off based on a CGI trailer.

The same people are awfully quiet about HD2.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

For any PS5 players here, is the game a must buy?

It's already the best PS5 exclusive and it's going to get frequent updates over the next few years. I'd say it's as close to a must buy as you can get as long as you're not hellbent on playing exclusively by yourself.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

I can't step away from Infinite Wealth or else I'd be playing this more lol

I need to schedule time folks

 

[HeWhoWalks]

This is what people meant when they said Sony only needs to hit on a couple of these GaaS games.

Bingo.

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

The problem surrounding the Fairgame$ criticism was that 100% of it was coming from single player gamers. There isn't a single multiplayer gamer who wrote the game off based on a CGI trailer.

Also worth noting thah after Payday's 3 failure the niche is basically free.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

How Sony always makes some huge hits

Never bet against the makers of PlayStation.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

The fact we were all talking about how most GaaS titles fail...and somehow Sony's first release is a huge hit, lmao.
Not counting GT7 that's almost 2 years old and we still see it in plenty best sellers in 2024.

The one studio that's actually not doing so well is...ironically the one Sony bought for her expertise in GaaS releases: Bungie.

 

[BennyBlanco]

That limit is per platform, not total

Ill take the devs at their word, not some fake engagement metric

They said that before the game blew up

Now NPD and GameDiscoverGo are saying nearly the same thing

 

[mckmas8808]

Will be really interesting to see how Helldivers impacts Sony's Q4 financial results given they absolutely didn't expect this game to be this big of a hit and subsequently how it impacts their fiscal year report.

Wouldn't be surprised if this one game saves a lot of jobs.

This is what people meant when they said Sony only needs to hit on a couple of these GaaS games.

MLB The Show is already a perennial hit for Sony. Next they need to look to bringing it to PC and Mobile to expand the margins on it. The same goes for Gran Turismo 7.

But this will also really impact how Sony looks at Fairgame$ and Concord, not necessarily expectations, but I'm sure they're looking at lessons they can learn from the rollout of Helldivers.

MLB The Show does NOT need to go to mobile. HECK NO! GT7 on PC is reasonable, but I'm not sure if PC gamers will react well to GT7 considering the sim racers they already have that are amazing! GT is a great sim racer "BECAUSE" it's a console game specifically.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Lmao @palworld

 

[DeepEnigma]

This should help light a fire under Bungie's ass, especially with the recent layoffs for their DEI dead weight and the COO/Interim Pres bringing smoke.

 

[Three]

They said that before the game blew up

Now NPD and GameDiscoverGo are saying nearly the same thing

How is GameDiscoverGo saying the same thing as NPD? Mat was saying something completely different.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

How Sony always makes some huge hits

Megaton numbers indeed

It's a fascinating story of how Sony became a big name publisher in this business.

I think the thing I'll give them the most credit for is their ability to adapt to situations.

During the N64/PS1 and Gamecube/PS2 days, all the talk was about how much better Nintendo was than Sony. You had comparisons of Dark Cloud vs Majora's Mask, Halo vs Killzone. Syphon Filter vs Metal Gear Solid and Splinter Cell. Sony obviously wasn't coming out on top in these comparisons.

They made significant investments in their first party studios and not all of these studios worked out. I think they learned a lot of lessons from success but maybe more importantly from failure.

Maybe had they given Zipper Interactive more time, they'd be a powerhouse studio today (though V1 interactive didn't last either).

I think this is why they're not as quick now to shutdown studios like Bend. Maybe with better engine and tools like Decima. There's probably some level of regret that they shutdown Evolution Studios. Basically, all studios should have been given a pass for the PS3.

Their ability to create hits from LittleBigPlanet, to Ghost of Tsushima, to Helldivers 2 is absolutely staggering.

Not sure a company in the industry has a better track record of IP creation in the last 20 years.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

This has 1.7 million views on his tiktok. That's advertising you just can't buy...

some could say is:

"viral marketing"

 

[BennyBlanco]

How is GameDiscoverGo saying the same thing as NPD? Mat was saying something completely different.

Mat said said most of it’s success was coming on PC. GameDiscoverGo is saying 65-75% of sales were on PC.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

This should help light a fire under Bungie's ass, especially with the recent layoffs for their DEI dead weight and the COO/Interim Pres bringing smoke.

Everything you wrote here was off...

• DEI isn't why Bungie's missed timelines
• Totoki is the President, COO, CFO of Sony Group and Chairman and interim CEO of SIE starting April 1st.

As for Bungie's timelines, they've delayed two games attempting to get better quality out of both of them. This is admirable assuming they come out high quality. Yes, there are financial concerns around that, that they should be accountable for, but again, that had nothing to do with DEI. Yes, DEI is an easy area to cut when the company is over budget.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Everything you wrote here was off...

• DEI isn't why Bungie's missed timelines
• Totoki is the President, COO, CFO of Sony Group and Chairman and interim CEO of SIE starting April 1st.

As for Bungie's timelines, they've delayed two games attempting to get better quality out of both of them. This is admirable assuming they come out high quality. Yes, there are financial concerns around that, that they should be accountable for, but again, that had nothing to do with DEI. Yes, DEI is an easy area to cut when the company is over budget.

Having DEI knitting clubs and cooking clubs during work hours, and endless inclusivity meetings when your asses should be designing and coding, yeah, It had an impact, to say otherwise is just silly. A lot of companies are starting wise up as this just doesn't impact gaming, productivity across all industries took a nose dive since this tripe. Now, some are starting to trim that fat, since they now have to answer to their shareholders.

 

[SmokedMeat]

A failure you mean. Every player is one PS5 sitting on a shelf, and one less 'magic' for PS5 players.

Sony

Congrats to the developers for hitting it out of the park with the biggest PlayStation hit on PC so far.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

The problem surrounding the Fairgame$ criticism was that 100% of it was coming from single player gamers. There isn't a single multiplayer gamer who wrote the game off based on a CGI trailer.

I mean this is beyond fair. I'm just as guilty. I'm not going to play any of these GaaS games. I'm a single player gamer and these games are not for me. I didn't necessarily think they'd be failures but I didn't think they would be successful either. I assumed it would take some time before Sony had some GaaS hits.

The fact we were all talking about how most GaaS titles fail...and somehow Sony's first release is a huge hit, lmao.
Not counting GT7 that's almost 2 years old and we still see it in plenty best sellers in 2024.

The one studio that's actually not doing so well is...ironically the one Sony bought for her expertise in GaaS releases: Bungie.

It's pretty crazy. This might end up one of the biggest games of the year and could be one of the biggest games of the generation...

Gran Turismo 7, I believe was helped tremendously by 1) the GT movie and 2) VR. Is PSVR2 sells 5 million like the first iteration and the vast majority of people buy GT7 with it... that's nearly half as many people who would normally buy a GT game...

MLB The Show does NOT need to go to mobile. HECK NO! GT7 on PC is reasonable, but I'm not sure if PC gamers will react well to GT7 considering the sim racers they already have that are amazing! GT is a great sim racer "BECAUSE" it's a console game specifically.

I've just got to disagree with you there. I think it's a no brainer on mobile. I think it has one of the biggest growth potentials as any Sony game. I've talked a lot about it, but they need to strive to get international licensing for the game.

Gran Turismo 7 doesn't need to be a major hit on PC, even selling 250-500K units would drastically help their margins. One of their biggest problems is their pipeline. If they can improve that, they can probably take GT to another level. More cars, more tracks, better licensing, maybe motorcycles again.

 

[cebri.one]

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I mean this is beyond fair. I'm just as guilty. I'm not going to play any of these GaaS games. I'm a single player gamer and these games are not for me. I didn't necessarily think they'd be failures but I didn't think they would be successful either. I assumed it would take some time before Sony had some GaaS hits.

I'm not into any of the cape**** but I'm still incapable of believing / saying that PlayStation should stop making Spiderman games.

It's weird how some can't view topics with any degree of objectivity. Single player gamers are an odd bunch.

 

[Three]

Mat said said most of it’s success was coming on PC. GameDiscoverGo is saying 65-75% of sales were on PC.

That's not what they're saying though. The dev said that it was 50:50 CCU between Playstation and Steam at the time when somebody was incorrectly using the steam CCU against Arrowheads CCU. It showed that the steam CCU isn't the same as the server CCU limit that Arrowhead use and can't be used for that


GDG was saying that they estimate 65-75% global LTD players are on steam, not exactly sales but possibly correlated closely. Mat was saying something completely different though, that 1 in 5 US steam DAU are playing Helldivers and 1 in 20 US PS5 DAU. These aren't the same. It has nothing to do with sales at all. It wouldn't even be true in the US in terms of sales unless PS5 users and Steam users are equal and daily engagement equal. A lot of people are making assumptions to try to make unfounded claims for their favourite platforms.