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[Bert]

Actually MS gives services and software free all the time. For example their low tier development tools are free. They got in trouble with the justice department for giving IE for free while there competitors was charging for browsers...

They give it away to lock people in further down the line like all software companies. As someone in IT procurement believe me that MS is very rarely value for money aside from the legacy effect

And I think you need to read the IE story again. They got in trouble for forcing use of it with their OS because other free options are available and its anti competitive.

No one sells standard browsers.

 

[jaosobno]

Didn't stop the PS3 from being "$599"

Those times are over. Welcome to 2013.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

It could work as a launch title if Remedy gets it right and makes the second like the first was supposed to be, open world.

You know, I really don't care about it being open world. I loved it the way it was, and I'm not sure that messing with the formula would necessarily result in a better game (it's my favorite game this gen, so topping it would really impress me).

 

[Piggus]

Inflation. The precedent was already set with the current generation. MS and Sony are still selling bundles @ $299. I don't think either of them are going to make the mistake of pricing themselves out of the market, but if you think that either of thse machines will be sold at the same price of the Wii U, then you're kidding yourself. They will both have hardware that will be far more capable and will be bundled with accessories (Kinect, PS Eye, Bt headset, etc). The days of selling loss leading hardware are long gone.

Inflation has not risen THAT much since 2005 as far as I know.

And how do you know the days of selling hardware at a loss are long gone? Even the Vita sold at an initial loss.

And I didn't say it would be the same price as the Wii U. $399 is my prediction with the PS4. I'm not so sure about MS since they seem to be making all kinds of weird decisions. The $499 thing wouldn't be surprising to me if they felt that most people would take advantage of the subsidized version.

Vita was far more capable than the 3DS and Sony priced it the SAME as the 3DS. The two companies simply have different business models. Tell me where Sony has stated that they won't take a loss on PS4, and then I'll believe that PS4 will cost more than $399. Until then, common sense based on recent history prevails.

 

[Tagg9]

Microsoft needs a big new IP to sell units - none of the games mentioned here are going to do that (Alan Wake 2, Perfect Dark 2 haha).

They need an equivalent of Wii Sports for the gaming masses that combines online play with an inventive hook. What that is, I don't know. But rehashing old franchises isn't going to make a difference at launch IMO (especially for Microsoft, who have very few iconic titles beyond Halo and Gears, and both of which will not be ready at launch).

 

[Resilient]

What weight do these rumours hold? How reliable is the source?

 

[Miles Quaritch]

What weight do these rumours hold? How reliable is the source?

Pretty sure this is the same guy who said MS would reveal the Durango on May 21. I think he was also the first to break the news of the delay from late April. Reliability is 70/30 in his favour in my opinion. He's a little contradictory at points, so that's why I'm not taking anything he says as written in stone fact.

 

[StudioTan]

That's what the Kotaku rumor says. A connection is required to play games and if you are disconnected you'll be given 3 minutes to play offline before a network troubleshooter is opened.

Kotaku also said that the PS4 wouldn't play used games.

http://kotaku.com/5896996/the-next-playstation-is-called-orbis-sources-say-here-are-the-details

 

[QaaQer]

Kotaku also said that the PS4 wouldn't play used games.

http://kotaku.com/5896996/the-next-playstation-is-called-orbis-sources-say-here-are-the-details

3-28-2012.

 

[DJwest]

3-28-2012.

plus Sony has confirmed it will play used games

 

[TriGen]

3-28-2012.

Yep. I bet everyone has considered this over the years. Not really surprising that plans change.

 

[scytheavatar]

What weight do these rumours hold? How reliable is the source?

Pretty much nothing he revealed is new info, save the fact that Microsoft might have axed their plans for an entertainment only box. Seems that he himself is unclear about Microsoft's "always online" plans, it could be that Microsoft themselves haven't made a final decision or is thinking of backtracking.

 

[Strike]

Inflation has not risen THAT much since 2005 as far as I know.

And how do you know the days of selling hardware at a loss are long gone? Even the Vita sold at an initial loss.

Both MS and Sony incurred considerable losses with their hardware in the last two gens. MS with the Xbox and 360 (Nvidia/Intel and RROD) and Sony with the PS3. Neither want to bleed billions on hardware again. The Vita used off the shelf parts. Its losses are nothing compared to that.

And I didn't say it would be the same price as the Wii U. $399 is my prediction with the PS4. I'm not so sure about MS since they seem to be making all kinds of weird decisions. The $499 thing wouldn't be surprising to me if they felt that most people would take advantage of the subsidized version.

Okay then. I'm saying that if the Wii U is anything to go by these consoles will be at least $399. I could easily see MS using Kinect 2 to justify the cost.

Vita was far more capable than the 3DS and Sony priced it the SAME as the 3DS. The two companies simply have different business models.

They do have different business models, but iirc the 3DS's BOM was way less than its suggested retail value. That's how they were able to drop the price to $169 soon after the Vita's price was announced.

Tell me where Sony has stated that they won't take a loss on PS4, and then I'll believe that PS4 will cost more than $399. Until then, common sense based on recent history prevails.

The design philosophy incorporated into the Vita and everything that has been said about the PS4 so far point to them making a more sensible machine that will get considerable performance gains over their previous generation hardware without breaking the bank on bleeding edge tech. While they can't afford another PS3 situation, it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be cheap.

 

[p3tran]

The days of selling loss leading hardware are long gone.

well, then my days of buying consoles day 1 and bathing them in money throughout the years are long gone, too!

 

[shandy706]

I think he meant personally to him, but in terms of mass-market appeal, I would say those titles are all of similar levels, maybe Alan wake being lower.

I'd say they're equal, although I have no clue how many copies AW has sold in the last year on PC.

AW hit 2 million sold OVER a year ago. I'd guess it's around 2.5-3 Million now.

 

[KidBeta]

if they really put an "always on" function to work imho it is just pointing at cloud computing trought ms azure

ms already make ppl pay to play online trought xbl and i think is a suicide to block single palyer games...and make them pay again for multiplayer...lol
theres no economical benefit for them to dont let ppl play offline (in a not multiplayer game) coz u dont pass trought xbl to play single player...
they will leave the choice to the devs..as sony is doing....

again if theres always on function imho it MUST mean cloud computing

already in 2010 they was pushing for it

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/presskits/cloud/docs/The-Economics-of-the-Cloud.pdf

Unless the cloud is entirely owned by microsoft it won't happen, its not possible at the moment to do cloud computing between people on home internet connections for real time graphics (well not reliable more then possible but close enough).

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Unless the cloud is entirely owned by microsoft it won't happen, its not possible at the moment to do cloud computing between people on home internet connections for real time graphics (well not reliable more then possible but close enough).

Interesting. Wasn't this what that killian guy from B3D was suggesting. That if the console did have a persistent online connection, they might use it for cloud computing.

 

[Alx]

Interesting. Wasn't this what that killian guy from B3D was suggesting. That if the console did have a persistent online connection, they might use it for cloud computing.

Cloud computing, as in "run processing tasks on eveybody's console when they're not using it" ? It's very unlikely, they wouldn't bother including a "low power mode" if they intend to have it do heavy computing most of the time.

 

[Seanspeed]

Price. Microsoft will initially offer two pricing models for the console, offering a standalone version for $499 and then a $299 version that requires a two-year Xbox LIVE Gold commitment at an expected price of $10 per month.

Internet-connected. The next Xbox must be internet-connected to use. This is source of the “always on”/“always online” rumors and isn’t as Draconian as many seem to believe.

Sony it is. Made my choice very easy.

Gonna miss Forza, but oh well.

 

[quickwhips]

Don't worry guys 1 vs 1000 will be ultimate game on xbox.

 

[Izick]

Sony it is. Made my choice very easy.

Gonna miss Forza, but oh well.

You made your choice before you knew anything for sure?

 

[DopeyFish]

Cloud computing, as in "run processing tasks on eveybody's console when they're not using it" ? It's very unlikely, they wouldn't bother including a "low power mode" if they intend to have it do heavy computing most of the time.

No, that's distributed computing

Cloud computing means there'd be a massive server farm doing work for the games - it would mainly have to be code with little dependencies and not latency sensitive

 

[abadguy]

Alan Wake sold 1.4 million on 360 and another million on PC. It could work as a launch title if Remedy gets it right and makes the second like the first was supposed to be, open world. AW American Nightmare shows that Microsoft hasn't given up on the IP just yet.

I hope that never happens.

 

[Mascot]

Sony it is. Made my choice very easy.

Gonna miss Forza, but oh well.

FM5 will probably sell the hardware to me, whatever it ends up being.

 

[Alx]

No, that's distributed computing

Cloud computing means there'd be a massive server farm doing work for the games - it would mainly have to be code with little dependencies and not latency sensitive

In that case I don' think it's a stretch to think there will be features based on cloud computing in the new consoles, it's becoming a common thing on phones after all (like for speech or music recognition).

 

[Discomurf]

$499 seems a bit high for the current climate, also im not sure how many people will want to dive into a 2 year contract right now. If these #s are true, to me MS is taking a big risk... if people arent blown away with their May showing the pricing may end up just giving people an excuse to jump ship. I wonder if Sony will try and compete at $399...if that happens it would be really interesting to see the big 3 duke it out this November each at $100 difference (for standalone units).

 

[Seanspeed]

FM5 will probably sell the hardware to me, whatever it ends up being.

I think that'll be the one thing that makes the choice a very regretful one, but I really cant justify buying an expensive, new-generation console over one game. And as much as I prefer Forza, I can live with Gran Turismo.

Maybe some day when the new Xbox has gotten down to <$150 or something, I can check it out.

 

[Seanspeed]

You made your choice before you knew anything for sure?

I've already been heavily leaning towards Sony so far. I think the tide will be shifting to them this coming generation going by all the wrongs they're fixing with the Playstation.

And yea, I'm saying based on the assumption this is true, which I dont think is too difficult to believe based on the guy's reputation. If it turns out wrong, I'll reassess things again. I've got about 7-8 months to make a final decision obviously, but it'll take something mighty impressive from Microsoft to sway me back towards them, I think.

EDIT: Sorry for double post.

 

[Shayan]

FM5 will probably sell the hardware to me, whatever it ends up being.

that franchise in total didnt even sell as much as GT5, unless you are looking at those guessworks from VG

GT6 will sell millions of HW in europe though

 

[Silly.Mikey]

Why is it that i get the feeling that my 360 Gold subscription wont be compatible with the next Xbox?

 

[Meus Renaissance]

Why is it that i get the feeling that my 360 Gold subscription wont be compatible with the next Xbox?

Lol wouldnt surprise anyone

 

[Izick]

I've already been heavily leaning towards Sony so far. I think the tide will be shifting to them this coming generation going by all the wrongs they're fixing with the Playstation.

And yea, I'm saying based on the assumption this is true, which I dont think is too difficult to believe based on the guy's reputation. If it turns out wrong, I'll reassess things again. I've got about 7-8 months to make a final decision obviously, but it'll take something mighty impressive from Microsoft to sway me back towards them, I think.

EDIT: Sorry for double post.

Paul Thurrott is very trustworthy, but he's never made it clear that the next Xbox will need a costant online connection to work, or even to play games for that matter. In reality we don't know anything besides some vague ideas about the feature-set in this next Xbox.

 

[JesseZao]

Why is it that i get the feeling that my 360 Gold subscription wont be compatible with the next Xbox?

Live is Live. It transitioned just fine last gen.

 

[FunnyBunny]

FM5 will probably sell the hardware to me, whatever it ends up being.

Same here.

As is, my 360 is "always connected" to the internet.

 

[Silly.Mikey]

Live is Live. It transitioned just fine last gen.

Last gen didn't have $a 299 version that requires a two-year Xbox LIVE Gold commitment at an expected price of $10 per month.

 

[quickwhips]

Why is it that i get the feeling that my 360 Gold subscription wont be compatible with the next Xbox?

Because you like PS4 better and it would be delicious?

 

[LyleLanley]

Last gen didn't have $a 299 version that requires a two-year Xbox LIVE Gold commitment at an expected price of $10 per month.

They do have a version that's $99 with a $15 monthly fee though.

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox360/consoles/entertainment-for-all

 

[Silly.Mikey]

They do have a version that's $99 with a $15 monthly fee though.

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox360/consoles/entertainment-for-all

Ah, so whats to stop people from buying that and not paying the fee?

 

[Kyoufu]

Ah, so whats to stop people from buying that and not paying the fee?

Debt collectors? Bad credit? The law? etc.

 

[Silly.Mikey]

No seriously, how does that work? You buy the console and it asks you for a CC or doesnt turn on?

 

[ascii42]

Ah, so whats to stop people from buying that and not paying the fee?

I think it becomes useless if you don't.

 

[LyleLanley]

Ah, so whats to stop people from buying that and not paying the fee?

I imagine the contract for that is very similar to a standard cell phone contract. As in if you stop paying you better expect a debt collector to give you a call.

 

[CookTrain]

No seriously, how does that work? You buy the console and it asks you for a CC or doesnt turn on?

Works the same as any other contract-based piece of electronics. You renege on the payments and they're gonna collect on them.

 

[Syphon Filter]

i had no idea people liked forza that much.

 

[Silly.Mikey]

If you have Live already you cant get that console? You have to pay for Live twice?

Im confused.

 

[Deleted member 10571]

Microsoft needs a big new IP to sell units - none of the games mentioned here are going to do that (Alan Wake 2, Perfect Dark 2 haha).

Nintendo conveniently declared "not to show new Nintendo hardware at E3".

Dun dun duuun.

 

[CookTrain]

If you have Live already you cant get that console? You have to pay for Live twice?

I imagine it just bolts onto your sub like paying when you're already subbed does.

 

[Silly.Mikey]

I imagine it just bolts onto your sub like paying when you're already subbed does.

Ah ok.

 

[Zerokku]

i had no idea people liked forza that much.

All 3 of the big racing series are system sellers. People eat that stuff up. Luckily for the hardware manufacturers, they each have their own.

Spoiler

Yes Im including Mario Kart in that. It may not be a sim racer, but its still bigger than the other two combined

 

[Syphon Filter]

All 3 of the big racing series are system sellers. People eat that stuff up. Luckily for the hardware manufacturers, they each have their own.

Spoiler

Yes Im including Mario Kart in that. It may not be a sim racer, but its still bigger than the other two combined

i dont think forza is a system seller,where is your proof?