Support NeoGAF

[Ennosuke]

I loved Ori and I am currently enjoying my OwlBoy playthrough. Are Hollow Knight and Axiom Verge games which I will most likely enjoy?

For Hollow Knight I am reading a lot complaints about difficulty and backtracking because you died. For the 2 games I mentioned above I felt challenged in terms of difficulty, but it never felt like a dark souls experience. So yeah not quite sure...

 

[Poppyseed]

Haven't played Hollow Knight but thought Axiom Verge was mediocre. Poor combat, back tracking that's a slog unlike the best in its genre, and a more messy effort the longer the game goes on. It tries to ape the best without understanding what made those special.

Feel exactly the same way. I thought it was a real turd, if truth be told.

 

[Munter]

Just started playing Hollow Knight and I'm already falling in love with it. Haven't played AV yet.

 

[Schlomo]

Haven't played Hollow Knight but thought Axiom Verge was mediocre. Poor combat, back tracking that's a slog unlike the best in its genre, and a more messy effort the longer the game goes on. It tries to ape the best without understanding what made those special.

Exactly how I felt.

I haven't played Hollow Knight yet, but I'm very much looking forward to it.

 

[The Hermit]

Hollow Knight is pretty fucking amazing.

This thread is the indie version of SOTN vs Super Metroid

Spoiler

I think HK is much more polished than AV though

 

[xabbott]

I tried to get into AV. It starts off well but the more I played the wise it became. Ori Guacamele are recent games in the same genre I adore. I will get Hollow Knight soon.

 

[Kalnos]

I loved Ori and I am currently enjoying my OwlBoy playthrough. Are Hollow Knight and Axiom Verge games which I will most likely enjoy?

For Hollow Knight I am reading a lot complaints about difficulty and backtracking because you died. For the 2 games I mentioned above I felt challenged in terms of difficulty, but it never felt like a dark souls experience. So yeah not quite sure...

Hollow Knight has backtracking to get your currency back, that's why people compare it to Dark Souls. It's a lot more forgiving with checkpoints, fast traveling, options to recover without the run, etc. I'd say you'd enjoy it.

 

[Pinko Marx]

Hollow Knight has a beauty that few games manage to match, an OST that is top of it's class, and amazing gameplay to go along with it all.

 

[Jawbreaker]

I loved Ori and I am currently enjoying my OwlBoy playthrough. Are Hollow Knight and Axiom Verge games which I will most likely enjoy?

For Hollow Knight I am reading a lot complaints about difficulty and backtracking because you died. For the 2 games I mentioned above I felt challenged in terms of difficulty, but it never felt like a dark souls experience. So yeah not quite sure...

I didn't find it to be too difficult, but there are a couple of difficulty spikes. I can understand the complaints about backtracking/walking since the transportation points are spaced a bit far apart.

 

[Negaduck]

Didn't have a dog in this fight but I'll be looking to pick up hollow knight!

I've been looking for something to scratch the adventure exploration itch. Thanks gaf!!

 

[tokkun]

I think Hollow Knight is the better playing game, but it triggered my Dark Souls fatigue.
I was kind of ambivalent about Axiom Verge by the end. It is nice in terms of providing a lot of secrets to unlock, but the combat doesn't seem to have a great hook to it, so the game can get to be a little tedious when you are backtracking looking for stuff.

There are other recent Metroidvanias I'd recommend before either of those games:
Rabi Ribi (if you can get past the creep factor), Shantae and the Pirate's Curse, Momodora: Reverie Under the Moonlight, or La Mulana

 

[Black_Red]

All this good talk about Hollow knight and I really want to buy it on switch, but I-m one click away from the steam sale discount

 

[Freshmaker]

I bought Axiom Verge. Stalled out at some point because there wasn't any clear way to go and people on the AV thread seemed obsessed with giving coy non answers instead of useful hints.

I hard passed on Hollow Knight due to the cutesy design.

 

[Jawbreaker]

I think Hollow Knight is the better playing game, but it triggered my Dark Souls fatigue.
I was kind of ambivalent about Axiom Verge by the end. It is nice in terms of providing a lot of secrets to unlock, but the combat doesn't seem to have a great hook to it, so the game can get to be a little tedious when you are backtracking looking for stuff.

There are other recent Metroidvanias I'd recommend before either of those games:
Rabi Ribi (if you can get past the creep factor), Shantae and the Pirate's Curse, Momodora: Reverie Under the Moonlight, or La Mulana

I'd place La-Mulana above Hollow Knight, but it's definitely not for everyone. Its absurdly cryptic puzzles and general difficulty will put a lot of people off.

 

[Solrac]

I bought Axiom Verge. Stalled out at some point because there wasn't any clear way to go and people on the AV thread seemed obsessed with giving coy non answers instead of useful hints.

I hard passed on Hollow Knight due to the cutesy design.

you made the right decision, i mean, i like both of them but axiom verge feels more like a real metroidvania, where you can upgrade the main character with new weapons / tools, etc.

 

[John Kowalski]

I loved the tech horror atmosphere of Axiom Verge

 

[Pinko Marx]

I bought Axiom Verge. Stalled out at some point because there wasn't any clear way to go and people on the AV thread seemed obsessed with giving coy non answers instead of useful hints.

I hard passed on Hollow Knight due to the cutesy design.

There's very little that's cute about the bleak world Hollow Knight presents.

 

[Freshmaker]

There's very little that's cute about the bleak world Hollow Knight presents.

The main character's a Hello Kitty character.

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

The main character's a Hello Kitty character.

That's a terrible reason to pass on a game.

 

[SargerusBR]

I bought Axiom Verge. Stalled out at some point because there wasn't any clear way to go and people on the AV thread seemed obsessed with giving coy non answers instead of useful hints.

I hard passed on Hollow Knight due to the cutesy design.

Hollow Knight has that "cute" design but don't be fooled, this game gets REAL dark.

 

[Nocturnowl]

All this good talk about Hollow knight and I really want to buy it on switch, but I-m one click away from the steam sale discount

I felt the same way but I gave in to the sale, I've not regretted it thus far.

 

[jb1234]

Hollow Knight has that "cute" design but don't be fooled, this game gets REAL dark.

Yeah, even if some of the characters had adorable designs, they were balanced by the bleakness of the world and especially the music. There's very little about Hollow Knight I'd describe as cute.

 

[tokkun]

I'd place La-Mulana above Hollow Knight, but it's definitely not for everyone. Its absurdly cryptic puzzles and general difficulty will put a lot of people off.

It is certainly one of the least accessible games in the genre, but I would say that helps give it a bit of a unique character. Part of my issue with the two games mentioned in the OP is that neither really feels like it is taking any risks or doing much outside of the basic Metroidvania formula.

 

[Freshmaker]

That's a terrible reason to pass on a game.

It's the primary reason I barely buy any indie games. That, and tiny sprite syndrome.

Hollow Knight has that "cute" design but don't be fooled, this game gets REAL dark.

Honestly, I have no real interest in how dark a game is if I don't like looking at it.

 

[Maffis]

couldnt get into hollow knight because of the bad stuttering but axiom verge was really good.

 

[Fallout-NL]

Dead Cells? It's amazing.

 

[KingBroly]

I think La Mulana is like...for 1% of the gaming population, if that. The game is too obscure for its' own good. Still waiting on that sequel, though. I wouldn't consider it a Metroid-like game, though.

I don't get the love for Axiom Verge. I played it...I don't think it's great. Like, at all. It's got the Metroid Prime 2 problem where everything is strung too far apart.

Shadow Complex is...alright, but it's shit to speedrun and the setting is garbage and the controls are a bit too finnicky, among other things.

Hollow Knight I haven't played, and even though it's on sale right now on Steam, I want to wait for the Switch version, even though I have no clue when it's coming.

IMO: Ori > Shadow Complex > Axiom Verge > La Mulana

 

[Y2Kev]

It's the primary reason I barely buy any indie games. That, and tiny sprite syndrome.


Honestly, I have no real interest in how dark a game is if I don't like looking at it.

Maybe just me but I feel like ori the sprite is microscopic on my tv. It's hard to see.

 

[Phrozenflame500]

Played them both. I think I preferred Hollow Knight, it's a bit slower at the start but it's a lot more polished.

They're both great games though.

 

[Gilby]

I'll be honest: I haven't played Hollow Knight. I have, however, played Axiom Verge and found that dull.

You want good metroidvania?

How about something that basically no one has heard of, yet is probably the best I've played apart from the Metroid franchise itself?

Environmental Station Alpha is here to serve. You're a robot sent to explore an old research station that's been abandonded. It has great, atmosphere music. Lovely simplistic pixel art. It has a great map with secrets. It has a nice sense of movement and challenge - not too hard, not too easy (unless you aren't used to challenge, though, it might be seen as hard). It has a wonderful sense of loneliness and discovery. Oh, and what's more: it took me ~8 hours to complete, and that includes exploring a lot. Basically, it never overstays its outcome.

Everyone should play this. Yet nobody has even heard of it. Unfortunately it's not on sale now, but for 7,99€ it's cheaper than both Hollow Knight and Axiom Verge.

Just play it and have a great time.

I should probably create a thread about it one day.

ESA was the best metroid-vania on steam, Hollow Knight is even better and you should play it ASAP!

I love the fact that Hempuli added more endings and content after the game came out, and I can't wait for ESA 2!

 

[emag]

This thread is pushing me to remove both Axiom Verge and Hollow Knight from my Steam wish list. I much prefer the tight and focused design of Guacamelee and Momodora: RUtM over the expansive exploration-based approach to the genre.

Maybe just me but I feel like ori the sprite is microscopic on my tv. It's hard to see.

It's not just you. Ori's visual design favors beauty over playability. The over the top bloom and lighting effects make it even worse, as do the non-interactive background/foreground elements.

 

[Davidion]

I have played and beaten both.

Get both.

 

[Freshmaker]

Maybe just me but I feel like ori the sprite is microscopic on my tv. It's hard to see.

Yeah. I do find myself losing track of a character if it's like 16 pixels tall on a 1080p screen.

It always seems contrary to how games were designed in the 8-32bit eras as well. They didn't use increased resolution to zoom out. They increased detail and animation. I realize that budget limitations etc come into play, but to me it's like the basic ethos driving the development of 2d games just went careening off the rails somewhere.

 

[13ruce]

Hollow Knight first get Axiom Verge later.
If you are a huge Metroid fan then the otherway around.

 

[Razzmatazzer]

Kindve want to try axiom Verge because of this thread, but I've played Hollow Knight and cannot say enough good things about it. The game is just absolutely amazing and completely blew me away. The world is huge, the combat is tight and fun, excellent music... Just a gem that's a must play for anyone fond of these types of games.

 

[TheJoRu]

Hollow Knight is the best Metroidvania I've ever played. I haven't played Axiom Verge, but the immediate comparison to Hollow Knight is to Ori and the Blind Forest. Hollow Knight doesn't have those gut-punch story moments or set pieces to carry it through the slower and more basic opening where you don't have many abilities. But the longer you go the more Hollow Knight's "substance over style"-approach pays off and ultimately turns it into a better overall game than Ori. There's a bigger sense of discovery thanks to a more nonlinear structure, and where there's actually significant optional content.

Combat is also more precise and grounded, which pays dividends especially in boss fights. The developers really understands the importance of feedback to your actions, so whether you land a blow yourself or get hit they make sure it feels really satisfying or devastating. Ori's movement is way more floaty and does not focus on close-range combat in the same way, so it makes sense that there's not the same level of feedback, but it doesn't change the fact that hitting an enemy in Ori feels way weaker.

In essence: get Hollow Knight. The world is lovely, the music is great, gameplay is fantastic, and many cool discoveries and surprises await.

 

[Marow]

ESA was the best metroid-vania on steam, Hollow Knight is even better and you should play it ASAP!

I love the fact that Hempuli added more endings and content after the game came out, and I can't wait for ESA 2!

Now you have my interest considering you've played ESA and praise Hollow Knight even more! From what I've seen HK it seems to be more "vania" than "metroid", meaning that it's heavier on combat than atmosphere and isolation. Further, it seems quite lengthy and more like an action rpg that just so happens to be slightly structured like a metroidvania. Do any of these fears actually hold true or am I just a delusional fool for whatever the reason? x_x'

 

[ItsTheNew]

Funny this thread came up, I literally just tried both of them today. The beginning pace of Axiom Verge seems more focused, which I preferred. I didn't like the graphics or music all that much. Hollow Knight seems on another level aesthetics wise, but I don't really like the map system / beginning of the game: it seems kind of slow.

 

[Anno]

Now you have my interest considering you've played ESA and praise Hollow Knight even more! From what I've seen HK it seems to be more "vania" than "metroid", meaning that it's heavier on combat than atmosphere and isolation. Further, it seems quite lengthy and more like an action rpg that just so happens to be slightly structured like a metroidvania. Do any of these fears actually hold true or am I just a delusional fool for whatever the reason? x_x'

I feel like HK tracks more towards Metroid than Vania. There's plenty of combat, but if you want atmosphere this game has it more than basically any other I've played. It's my favorite part of the game. It's not really much of an RPG either. No experience, random drops or anything. Just upgrading your weapon, acquiring new movement abilities and slotting in charms that change bits of your character.

I don't really like the map system / beginning of the game: it seems kind of slow

A slow first hour or so is probably my only big gripe with the game. Once you unlock the air dash both combat and traversal pick up a lot, and then not long after you'll get a wall jump and it's pretty much perfect from there on out.

 

[jb1234]

Now you have my interest considering you've played ESA and praise Hollow Knight even more! From what I've seen HK it seems to be more "vania" than "metroid", meaning that it's heavier on combat than atmosphere and isolation. Further, it seems quite lengthy and more like an action rpg that just so happens to be slightly structured like a metroidvania. Do any of these fears actually hold true or am I just a delusional fool for whatever the reason? x_x'

Hollow Knight is fairly lengthy, yes. It took me 25 hours to beat (and 41 to 100%), although you can finish it in much less time if you don't go after optional stuff. I wouldn't describe it as an action RPG as it doesn't have RPG elements. It's more of a platformer/action game with really large areas that have content you can only reach with certain abilities, just like in most Metroidvanias. As far as isolation goes, there's an area in KH that's creepier than anything I've played in the Metroid franchise.

 

[RumbleHumble]

It depends on if you're more into the Metroid end of the Metroidvania. If so, DEFINITELY go axiom verge. If you don't really care much about the Metroid aspect, go Hollow Knight.

If you want to do something very different (but STILL AMAZING), get Dead Cells. Seriously, you should get Dead Cells.

 

[Crab Milk Mickey]

All this good talk about Hollow knight and I really want to buy it on switch, but I-m one click away from the steam sale discount

Get it on Steam. No telling if the Switch port will be any good, when the port studio Team Cherry hired has previously worked on nothing but mobile game pseudo-shovelware.

 

[Davidion]

Hollow Knight is fairly lengthy, yes. It took me 25 hours to beat (and 41 to 100%), although you can finish it in much less time if you don't go after optional stuff. I wouldn't describe it as an action RPG as it doesn't have RPG elements. It's more of a platformer/action game with really large areas that have content you can only reach with certain abilities, just like in most Metroidvanias. As far as isolation goes, there's an area in KH that's creepier than anything I've played in the Metroid franchise.

*skitter*skitter*skitter*

 

[Zen_Arcade]

I've never played Hollow Knight, but Axiom Verge was my favorite game of 2015. I'd recommend it to anyone.

Though if you're a collector, I'd say wait on playing it because a physical version will be coming soon.

 

[TheJoRu]

As far as isolation goes, there's an area in KH that's creepier than anything I've played in the Metroid franchise.

You talking about

Spoiler

Deepnest

, right? Man, I hated that place sooooo much (as in I hated it so much that I loved it).

 

[Anno]

You talking about

Spoiler

Deepnest

, right? Man, I hated that place sooooo much (as in I hated it so much that I loved it).

My first encounter with that zone was basically the Dark Souls "Nope" .gif after I went like twenty feet inside.

 

[jb1234]

*skitter*skitter*skitter*

NOOOOOOOOO.

You talking about

Spoiler

Deepnest

, right? Man, I hated that place sooooo much (as in I hated it so much that I loved it).

Yes. :| The instant I entered it, I wanted to get the fuck out really, really quickly, haha.

 

[DarkConfidant]

I'd pick Axiom Verge any day.

 

[Adryuu]

No contest.

Axiom Verge is a fairly awesome videogame (knowing it's been made by just one man helps, a lot). Hollow Knight is a masterpiece far above that. 12-14 hours in Axiom I finished the game and was thankful for it, I had enough. 19 hours in Hollow Knight I'm not only sure it's the better one, I'm sure it's better than, say, Symphony of the Night or any 2d Castlevania I've played, way better than Guacamelee (which was really amazing) and just about better than any 2d metroidvania I've played. Mind you, I've never played any 2d Metroid, but those are old games with retro art and this one is an actual contemporary game with contemporary design and graphics which WORKS as good as old games focused on gameplay.

Also, the music is incredible, as well as the writing, and the setting, atmosphere and variety of scenarios. It also has a crazy amount of content (I may have seen most of the map by now, but of course not all, and my progress is slow but steady and I've still lots to do). The difficulty is just right for now, and even if it got fucky right now, in any department, I've already got practically 20 hours of fucking awesome out of it. Probably will get a lot more than that by the time I'm finished.

It may not end up being the game of the year for me but it very well couuld be the indie game of recent years. Right there with Ori, Hyper Light and, maybe, Furi. Or maybe Owlboy or some other thing I haven't played yet.

But metroidvanias? I've not played them all, but from those I have, this one's the best.

To the people who played Hollow Knight and Ori. Is it as good as Ori? Ori is one of my favorite games this gen.

Ori is a very special game and does some things better, but so far Hollow Knight is clearly the better videogame, and I still haven't finished it. Ori might be more touching and better at animation and storytelling, but comparing videogames? Gameplay, systems, design, FUN? Hollow Knight, and I thought Ori was a lot of fun, too.

All that said, someone may find the game too long, or too hard, or too dark, or too sad. Or even too cute!

 

[jimboton]

We're seeing so many 'XXX, YYY or Hollow Knight?' posts in the sales thread. It's kind of surprising. And XXX and YYY are usually great games in their own right. But the question will always be unfair towards XXX and YYY, particularly if those are also metroidvanias. The answer is always Hollow Knight.