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[BeamImpact]

just saw the trailers and i need to say WOW, i cant wait to play this on the PS4
mirrors edge with a great soundtrack and some tony hawk elements in a warsow look, what a combination!

 

[Elija2]

But why is the WiiU goal the highest when it should be the cheapest to develop for? It makes no sense. And no, "developing specifically for the gamepad" is not an excuse.

Yeah, it would be nice if the Hideki Naganuma soundtrack and Wii U version were the first stretch goals since those are things that they previously advertised with the game. I can't imagine what the fan disappointment would be like if they don't reach the Naganuma goal. Most people care about that more than they care about more playable characters.

 

[~Kinggi~]

Fuck the Wii U.. No seriously, its a dead platform.

Anyway, this whole thing seems very odd to me. First time i hear about this is today, watch the video and think this is really advanced shit for the value they are offering. They launch the campaign and it's only asking for 38k. This all seems really bizarre. In another world this could have been a 900k campaign and successful. They will reach their funding with this but its really puzzling the backlash happening.

 

[PlumCantaloupe]

Wii U? Alright, I'm in! Looks lovely.

Yeah, it would be nice if the Hideki Naganuma soundtrack and Wii U version were the first stretch goals since those are things that they previously advertised with the game. I can't imagine what the fan disappointment would be like if they don't reach the Naganuma goal. Most people care about that more than they care about more playable characters.

I agree. It seems a bit disingenuous to have the spread between "all other platforms" and the WiiU so large (38,000 to 100,000).

 

[More_Badass]

Yeah, it would be nice if the Hideki Naganuma soundtrack and Wii U version were the first stretch goals since those are things that they previously advertised with the game. I can't imagine what the fan disappointment would be like if they don't reach the Naganuma goal. Most people care about that more than they care about more playable characters.

Well they'd probably want to have enough to pay the guy so that's why I'd guess the soundtrack goal is that amount

 

[Infernal Monkey]

Whoa, that's... a lot of important content behind huge stretch goals. $50,000 for more characters, $60,000 for a new gameplay mode and Naganuma soundtrack, $80,000 for a bigger, more complete game world, $100,000 for local multiplayer (and a Wii U port). Hmmmmm.

Feels like when people sell things on eBay for cheap but charge an insane amount for postage.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Yes, that's why I'm interested in this. But there's a much stronger multiplayer focus from the video.

Then you're a plane crash survivor lost in the middle of the desert. You've just found a canteen full of gatorade when you wanted water.

 

[More_Badass]

Whoa, that's... a lot of important content behind huge stretch goals. $50,000 for more characters, $60,000 for a new gameplay mode and Naganuma soundtrack, $80,000 for a bigger, more complete game world, $100,000 for local multiplayer (and a Wii U port). Hmmmmm.

Feels like when people sell things on eBay for cheap but charge an insane amount for postage.

Well to be realistic, new characters, game modes, and a map that doubles the game world would take a lot more time to create, develop, balance and so the devs would need more funds to support a longer development period

 

[Skyzard]

Whoa, that's... a lot of important content behind huge stretch goals. $50,000 for more characters, $60,000 for a new gameplay mode and Naganuma soundtrack, $80,000 for a bigger, more complete game world, $100,000 for local multiplayer (and a Wii U port). Hmmmmm.

Feels like when people sell things on eBay for cheap but charge an insane amount for postage.

Yeah, that bold one especially.

Fingers crossed, looks good.

 

[jholmes]

It may be the cheapest to develop for but it has the smallest install base compared to PC, PS4, Xbox One and hell even Linux. Is it worth wasting funds for a unique experience on the Wii-U (so they claim) when there's a chance that very few will purchase it compared to other platforms.

Worth noting this is not true about the Xbox One, and while the PS4 appears to have passed the Wii U in global sales, as far as I know we don't up-to-date numbers on the Wii U at the moment and the two platforms appear to be largely similar numbers. (Obviously PC and Linux are different situations.)

Regardless, I don't think what they're doing with the Wii U is the sort of thing I want to endorse, and now I'm choosing to sit out on a Kickstarter campaign that I thought I'd be sure to back a few months ago.

 

[daydream]

So, people are getting up and arms over two tweets from March, am I getting this right?

I mean, I agree that the content locked behind stretch goals is a bit extreme, but insulting the devs because of a) two twitter responses that b) were made a month ago and c) that don't even explicitly state that a WiiU version will be included in the initial goal, in fact d) the reply to Messo more or less indicates that they are "working" on getting it there - hastily insulting them because of that is just rude. Not to mention the fact that e) this all happened in the context of a Kickstarter which, hey, is all about funding a project that hasn't had the chance to materialise, yet.

Again, not saying the stretch goals are particularly enticing - just that some people need to cool it, imo.

 

[Firehead]

So, people are getting up and arms over two tweets from March, am I getting this right?

I mean, I agree that the content locked behind stretch goals is a bit extreme, but insulting the devs because of a) two twitter responses that b) were made a month ago and c) that don't even explicitly state that a WiiU version will be included in the initial goal, in fact d) the reply to Messo more or less indicates that they are "working" on getting it there - hastily insulting them because of that is just rude. Not to mention the fact that e) this all happened in the context of a Kickstarter which, hey, is all about funding a project that hasn't had the chance to materialise, yet.

Again, not saying the stretch goals are particularly enticing - just that some people need to cool it, imo.

The way in which they announced Hideki Naganuma joining and how the Wii U version was an actual thing (even outside of the tweets) is more the reason. And the whole trend with kickstarters having promises of a Wii U version locked behind some upper tier that has little chance of being met.

 

[jholmes]

The way in which they announced Hideki Naganuma joining and how the Wii U version was an actual thing (even outside of the tweets) is more the reason. And the whole trend with kickstarters having promises of a Wii U version locked behind some upper tier that has little chance of being met.

Also, calling your game "Revolt of Gamers" and pulling this is kind of asking for it.

 

[More_Badass]

The way in which they announced Hideki Naganuma joining and how the Wii U version was an actual thing (even outside of the tweets) is more the reason. And the whole trend with kickstarters having promises of a Wii U version locked behind some upper tier that has little chance of being met.

As I said before about Naganuma, being part of the team and agreeing to work with the devs is not the same as being paid to produce a soundtrack. He probably did join the team; they still have to pay him for his work

 

[tranciful]

The Wii U stretch goal is high to mitigate the risk of investing in that platform. It might be cheaper to develop for (not sure why exactly you'd think that), but the expected return on investment is smaller. It makes perfect sense for them to prioritize the more lucrative platforms.

 

[jholmes]

The Wii U stretch goal is high to mitigate the risk of investing in that platform. It might be cheaper to develop for (not sure why exactly you'd think that), but the expected return on investment is smaller. It makes perfect sense for them to prioritize the more lucrative platforms.

Wii U Unity licenses are free, and as far as I'm aware this game is being made in Unity.

Nobody's saying that should make it free or even cheap, and you may be right about return on investment, but I think it's understandable that if the game costs $38,000 to make on three platforms, adding a fourth wouldn't cost an additional $62,000.

 

[daydream]

The way in which they announced Hideki Naganuma joining and how the Wii U version was an actual thing (even outside of the tweets) is more the reason. And the whole trend with kickstarters having promises of a Wii U version locked behind some upper tier that has little chance of being met.

Like I said, I very much get why people are irritated, but putting things into perspective doesn't hurt (neither does being more mindful of factors we possibly don't know about).

 

[tranciful]

Wii U Unity licenses are free, and as far as I'm aware this game is being made in Unity.

Nobody's saying that should make it free or even cheap, and you may be right about return on investment, but I think it's understandable that if the game costs $38,000 to make on three platforms, adding a fourth wouldn't cost an additional $62,000.

I think you're taking the goal amounts too literally. There's a strategy to setting goals/stretch goals and they don't necessarily accurately reflect dev costs. They're already taking a risk announcing PC/PS4/Xbox One versions, but these are the platforms with the most fans (most potential backers). Though they don't specify on the reward list, I'm betting backers will get the PC version and I do think it's a little shady to not specify which version they'll get (some might think they're backing for console version). Hopefully that was an oversight on their part..

Another thing to consider is that optimization takes time. Sure, it looks like something the Wii U can handle, but with such a small team they aren't going to have a lot of man hours dedicated to optimization (like a big studio game would). PS4/Xbox One are going to need less optimization which means less time/money required to develop those versions. Reading the comments, they already claimed to be working on the consoles so maybe they realized it really would take a lot more time to get the Wii U version up to the same standards as the PC/PS4/XBO.

 

[tranciful]

Whoa, that's... a lot of important content behind huge stretch goals. $50,000 for more characters, $60,000 for a new gameplay mode and Naganuma soundtrack, $80,000 for a bigger, more complete game world, $100,000 for local multiplayer (and a Wii U port). Hmmmmm.

Feels like when people sell things on eBay for cheap but charge an insane amount for postage.

Games cost money to make. If they have less money, they can only afford to make less game. How do you expect them to make a bigger game if they're stuck with a smaller budget?

 

[213372bu]

Just heard Naganuma is on board.

Awesooooooome.

I want a full-on Jet Set Radio-esque OST.

 

[Messofanego]

That goal seems really tiny for their ambition, gotta admit. Open world and multiplayer, for a team of just three. Best of luck to them.

 

[Drago]

I just want them to make it to 80k. I only have a WiiU of the platforms this could come to (my current computer isn't meant for games) but by the time this actually comes out I should have at least one of the 3 main options, so if it doesn't make it to WiiU then I'll be fine. But I want that Naganuma OST so badly and I won't say no to a game world that's twice as large as what's planned. I can honestly see it making it there too, or at least I hope so.

I should really get around to playing Mirror's Edge soon.

 

[jholmes]

I think you're taking the goal amounts too literally. There's a strategy to setting goals/stretch goals and they don't necessarily accurately reflect dev costs. They're already taking a risk announcing PC/PS4/Xbox One versions, but these are the platforms with the most fans (most potential backers). Though they don't specify on the reward list, I'm betting backers will get the PC version and I do think it's a little shady to not specify which version they'll get (some might think they're backing for console version). Hopefully that was an oversight on their part..

Another thing to consider is that optimization takes time. Sure, it looks like something the Wii U can handle, but with such a small team they aren't going to have a lot of man hours dedicated to optimization (like a big studio game would). PS4/Xbox One are going to need less optimization which means less time/money required to develop those versions. Reading the comments, they already claimed to be working on the consoles so maybe they realized it really would take a lot more time to get the Wii U version up to the same standards as the PC/PS4/XBO.

I don't doubt that optimization for Wii U wouldn't take some time and money, and I don't think anyone here is advocating a quick-and-dirty port. I think part of the frustration for some is that this is a funding strategy, to use your word, that we've seen on Kickstarter many times before: put a Wii U build as a stretch goal out in the stratosphere. That doesn't personally bother me, but it's not the sort of thing that gets me to open up my wallet.

I think the real issue, at least as I see it, is that they talked up multiplatform support before the campaign but then the Wii U build winds up in La La Land. Again, I'm not looking to pick a fight with some strangers -- these people are asking for my money, and I'm giving them a firm NO, and explaining why.

 

[tranciful]

I don't doubt that optimization for Wii U wouldn't take some time and money, and I don't think anyone here is advocating a quick-and-dirty port. I think part of the frustration for some is that this is a funding strategy, to use your word, that we've seen on Kickstarter many times before: put a Wii U build as a stretch goal out in the stratosphere. That doesn't personally bother me, but it's not the sort of thing that gets me to open up my wallet.

I think the real issue, at least as I see it, is that they talked up multiplatform support before the campaign but then the Wii U build winds up in La La Land. Again, I'm not looking to pick a fight with some strangers -- these people are asking for my money, and I'm giving them a firm NO, and explaining why.

I guess I'd ask you to think of the alternatives, then. Should they instead set the goal to 100k so they can get Wii U in there? And if it doesn't successfully get funded, do they cancel all versions completely (since they get $0 instead of $38k+)?

My guess is the base goal is how much they expect to need to finish PC version (and deliver backer copies). Then they expect/hope additional revenue from PC release can fund development of PS4/XBO port. But if they get more from kickstarter, they can rely less on revenue from PC version and be able to do more development up front.

If they get less from Kickstarter, it signals there's a good possibility there's less demand for the game and they can avoid spending time/money making a bigger game on more platforms that wouldn't make any money anyway.

If you really want a bigger game on more platforms, the best way to do that is support them. Unless you think they secretly don't want to do the Wii U version at all and are evil or something.

I do think they could have had better communication, though.

 

[Codeblue]

As I said before about Naganuma, being part of the team and agreeing to work with the devs is not the same as being paid to produce a soundtrack. He probably did join the team; they still have to pay him for his work

Maybe their banner should have read "Hideki Naganuma agrees to produce a soundtrack provided we hit a $60,000 stretchgoal!"

The game looks amazing, and I hope they smash every goal they set, but it was disingenuous. There's no way around that.

 

[Draconian]

The way in which they announced Hideki Naganuma joining and how the Wii U version was an actual thing (even outside of the tweets) is more the reason. And the whole trend with kickstarters having promises of a Wii U version locked behind some upper tier that has little chance of being met.

Exactly this. You don't namedrop composers and consoles and act like they're definite things and then turn around and stick them behind far out stretch goals.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

That goal seems really tiny for their ambition, gotta admit. Open world and multiplayer, for a team of just three. Best of luck to them.

seems unrealistic even, I'd say.

Naganuma's involvement inspires more confidence, but even then, he'll be hired to compose the score, which could see release regardless of whether or not the actual game does.

 

[outunderthestars]

A WiiU dev kit doesn't cost 70K.
And there's no way that developing the game for the WiiU costs 3 times what it costs to develop for four other platforms.
It's completely dishonest. Completely.

Umm, that's not how stretch goals work. They arent claiming that they need $70,000 to make a Wii U version. Its just the last stretch goal because it isn't a priority.

It looks like they are asking for $20,000 for local multiplayer and to port to WiiU. Seems fair to me. Again, want to see a WiiU version? Pledge, and the cancel if it doesn't look like they are going to make the stretch goal.

 

[Durante]

But why is the WiiU goal the highest when it should be the cheapest to develop for?

I often read stuff like this, but for an indie game such as this one I see no reason for it to be true. It's not pushing the PC/PS4/XB1 platforms, so its not like it needs more expensive assets for those. You just develop the game and the assets once, and plop them on each platform using your middleware, and probably everything runs well enough. If anything, it's the Wii U which could be more expensive, as it may require platform specific tweaks to get the game to run acceptably.

 

[Aaron]

It's also the platform that they're likely to get the least return for their development investment from, so they need a little more money to offset that.

 

[outunderthestars]

I often read stuff like this, but for an indie game such as this one I see no reason for it to be true. It's not pushing the PC/PS4/XB1 platforms, so its not like it needs more expensive assets for those. You just develop the game and the assets once, and plop them on each platform using your middleware, and probably everything runs well enough. If anything, it's the Wii U which could be more expensive, as it may require platform specific tweaks to get the game to run acceptably.

That is basically what they said. They explained that their engine could export to ps4 and xb1 with incredible ease, but that it would take more effort to port to the WiiU.

 

[Messofanego]

You have the choice of platform, they'll send the survey out at the end.

Alpha expected around Dec 2014 to Feb 2015.

They've added more clarification to the Wii U port in the FAQ:

Also the Wii U is by far less powerful than XB1 and PS4 and have less memory, also our engine is not in the same version on PC/PS4/XB1. The Wii U version is an older version, we are already working on Wii U but for all that reasons and the asymetric gameplay we want to create, the Wii U version IS another version it require us to "recreate" the game especially for Wii U when other platforms is basically a one button export, and that justify the very reason of the goal, it's a real challenge and it deserve to be a higher goal.​

I now want "one button export" to be a meme

 

[More_Badass]

You have the choice of platform, they'll send the survey out at the end.

Alpha expected around Dec 2014 to Feb 2015.

They've added more clarification to the Wii U port in the FAQ:

Also the Wii U is by far less powerful than XB1 and PS4 and have less memory, also our engine is not in the same version on PC/PS4/XB1. The Wii U version is an older version, we are already working on Wii U but for all that reasons and the asymetric gameplay we want to create, the Wii U version IS another version it require us to "recreate" the game especially for Wii U when other platforms is basically a one button export, and that justify the very reason of the goal, it's a real challenge and it deserve to be a higher goal.​

I now want "one button export" to be a meme

Thanks, added to OP
Now let's see how the detractors continue to accuse the devs of this and that

 

[bbdude]

In for tha Naganumaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

 

[Elija2]

Some guy on reddit asked the devs about the whole Naganuma deal, and apparently the base goal does include a few songs by him. The stretch goal is for a full Naganuma soundtrack. If so, that's definitely fine by me. They should have clarified that.

Also the Wii U is by far less powerful than XB1 and PS4 and have less memory, also our engine is not in the same version on PC/PS4/XB1.​

Man, now I'm kinda worried that the game won't run well on my laptop.

 

[Messofanego]

Some guy on reddit asked the devs about the whole Naganuma deal, and apparently the base goal does include a few songs by him. The stretch goal is for a full Naganuma soundtrack. If so, that's definitely fine by me. They should have clarified that.

Thanks for this info.

 

[Firehead]

Some guy on reddit asked the devs about the whole Naganuma deal, and apparently the base goal does include a few songs by him. The stretch goal is for a full Naganuma soundtrack. If so, that's definitely fine by me. They should have clarified that.



Man, now I'm kinda worried that the game won't run well on my laptop.

Goddamn. That's all they had to say to me in the comments. Jeeze. Had they been open and clear about this, which is all I was asking them to do in the first place, this wouldn't have been drawn out like it was.

Thank you.

 

[Elija2]

Goddamn. That's all they had to say to me in the comments. Jeeze. Had they been open and clear about this, which is all I was asking them to do in the first place, this wouldn't have been drawn out like it was.

Thank you.

I'm assuming there's a language barrier and they didn't quite understand what you were complaining about. They really should put that information on the Kickstarter page.

 

[Silky]

Aww man it's damn near halfway there!

 

[Scarecrow]

I really dig the art style of this one, but the whole gamer oppression theme just reeks of a game made for the 8-12 year old crowd.

 

[Messofanego]

I really dig the art style of this one, but the whole gamer oppression theme just reeks of a game made for the 8-12 year old crowd.

They could make it more dystopically relevant, tie it to how platform holders removing backwards compatibility was the start. DRM went insane. Old consoles were not accessible, even on Ebay. Jack Thompson and Leland Yee types gained more power. Addiction to videogames rose where MMOs took over most lives. Gamers didn't do enough to keep videogames a legitimate medium of art. They literally took our freedoms of videogames away.

And now they have to fight back.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

They could make it more dystopically relevant, tie it to how platform holders removing backwards compatibility was the start. DRM went insane. Old consoles were not accessible, even on Ebay. Jack Thompson and Leland Yee types gained more power. Addiction to videogames rose where MMOs took over most lives. Gamers didn't do enough to keep videogames a legitimate medium of art. They literally took our freedoms of videogames away.

And now they have to fight back.

This reads like the premise of a Ctrl Alt Del strip and I hope it's never the plot of a video game.

 

[Messofanego]

This reads like the premise of a Ctrl Alt Del strip and I hope it's never the plot of a video game.

 

[More_Badass]

50% funded!

 

[DaBoss]

I'm assuming there's a language barrier and they didn't quite understand what you were complaining about. They really should put that information on the Kickstarter page.

Yea, it is clear that English is not their first language.

 

[mreddie]

Just hope we can get to the Naganuma doing the whole game and graffiti stretch goal.

 

[Kyne]

this is the closest thing I'll ever get to an Air Gear game.

please let the multiplayer be good. hell, add a clan-system so people can run around in 'crews'.

into my veins.

 

[jholmes]

Now let's see how the detractors continue to accuse the devs of this and that

I think there are some legitimate issues being brought up in this thread, and to dismiss it as "detractors accusing the devs of this and that" isn't going to do anyone any good. I wish these guys the best and I'd love to play this game some day, but that doesn't mean I should blindly praise this campaign and give it my money.

 

[Crash55118]

Worth a pledge for the Naganuma tracks alone. Pledged before I even looked at a video, but man did that trailer sell me on it again.

 

[More_Badass]

I think there are some legitimate issues being brought up in this thread, and to dismiss it as "detractors accusing the devs of this and that" isn't going to do anyone any good. I wish these guys the best and I'd love to play this game some day, but that doesn't mean I should blindly praise this campaign and give it my money.

I'm not saying that you have to blindly praise the campaign

The detractors I'm talking about are those who accused the devs of being lying scumbags (not saying you were, but regarding the thread in general) when 1) Naganuama is currently working with them and 2) they are working on Wii U and have legitimate reasons for a high stretch goal