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[Metroxed]

By learning not to fear death, when it inexorably comes your way. We need to live our lives enjoying them as much as we can with the people we love and doing things we enjoy. Too many religious people waste their lives thinking about what comes next, and they forget to live this life, which by the way is the only one we will ever get. Just try to make the best out of it.

There is no need to fear the state of being dead, because you will not be aware of it.

 

[Geist-]

It helps when the cure for aging might come within our lifetimes. But mostly:

Celebrate life. Live it to the fullest. Love, laugh, forgive, because nothing lasts forever.

strive to establish the republic of heaven on earth

This.

 

[Lothar]

Well, my grandmother is in late stages of cancer and will soon die. And her approach is that it's the end, she had a good life and that is enough. By her own account the best thing is seeing the people close to her for the last time and to know life goes on, that she can let go of life peacefully without worrying.

I think that's a good way to think about it.

It's great that she has that approach. But I would guess that it's not typical. I could never see myself thinking that.

How could you get someone, like say, your kids to believe that? Someone telling me that a person has had enough life is like telling me Up is down and Down is up. Even if someone died at age 1000, I believe that would be horrible.

 

[Zaru]

It helps when the cure for aging might come within our lifetimes.

Imagine being among the last generation that has to die and knowing it.

 

[Monocle]

Yeah, I'll say that people who have this "Life is all you get, so might as well be happy" mindset are in a good place, but like any belief, you can't just snap your fingers and buy into it. It's just as easy to say "in 100 years I'll be dead and nothing, so what's the difference if I die alone and sad or happy and loved?" Logically there isn't a difference. You get to the same destination.

My kids are just going to have a lot of religious texts around the house. I'm an atheist but I came to that decision on my own and I'll let them come to it that way as well. I'll drive and go with them to whatever service they want (if they do) and back that call 100%. Religion is a protected class for a reason and I don't really have the jaded view of religion that most atheists seem to have.

edit:

Do the second one. I had panic attacks for years when I first became an atheist because what was the point of living if my entire being was going to shut off one day? What if I went to sleep and died in my sleep?

Related note: I had some wicked insomnia for years until I came to my current mindset (which is that philosophically I'm a mentalist and by conservation of matter and energy I don't believe my consciousness will disappear).

Make sure to highlight the mutually exclusive "everyone's wrong except us" claims that most religions make. You'll be doing your kids a great disservice if you don't teach them the critical abilities they need to evaluate different worldviews and come to their own informed conclusions.

It's too easy, especially for a child, to shut off your brain and treat the vast body of religious mythology as a buffet of equally valid ideas. You can really screw yourself up if you don't maintain a tireless sense of curiosity and skepticism.

If nothing else, kids need to know how to look for evidence and consider the source. They need to ask "Why?"

All claims are not equal.

 

[venomenon]

I grew up in an extremely atheist area (East Germany), I actually only knew like 2-3 christian kids growing up.
From my experience, very young children, i. e. pre-schoolers might be told a person "went to heaven" but with no religious subtext. When I experienced a close relative's death at age 7, I definitely understood the concept of death in a straightforward way. The person's gone for good, safe for buried/cremated leftovers, period.

 

[SocksAndShoes]

It's great that she has that approach. But I would guess that it's not typical. I could never see myself thinking that.

How could you get someone, like say, your kids to believe that? Someone telling me that a person has had enough life is like telling me Up is down and Down is up. Even if someone died at age 1000, I believe that would be horrible.

It's really not. Think of a light switch. It's a binary thing right? On or off.

That's your existence. One day, that switch flips to off, and the electrical impulses that you were made of cease to exist. You, for all intents and purposes, cease to exist.

As far as explaining it to a child, ask them what life was like before they were born. It's the same thing.

 

[Baron von Loathsome]

I've been wondering about what happens after death since elementary school. What I figured is that whatever happens, there's nothing you can do about, so we should at least try make life on Earth as enjoyable as possible.

With that said, I still deeply fear death and am very much aware of my mortality, but perhaps that gives me a head start on eventually coming to terms with it. I dunno.

 

[ThisGuy]

Wish skepticism.

 

[mentallyinept]

This was always weird to me. Are you just the matter that composes your body?If so, are you proud of all the dead skin and bodily waste you leave behind on a daily basis?Or is this energy of "you" only released upon death?

I don't understand why you are bringing pride into this conversation.

I'm not "proud" of the energy that composes my body but it's neat that it does get redistributed upon death.

 

[adamy]

it would suck to not believe in an afterlife, glad I'm not in that boat!

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

Imagine being among the last generation that has to die and knowing it.

I don't believe it's going to be that simple any time soon. Even if we could extend the life of the body, we have no idea how the brain would handle operating for so long and there's no reason to believe it would handle it well.

 

[SocksAndShoes]

it would suck to not believe in an afterlife, glad I'm not in that boat!

What an odd reply. It "sucks" equally as much as believing in an afterlife.

 

[mentallyinept]

Yeah, I figured, didn't mean to sound patronizing or anything. But yeah, the former one is good if you're in a good place but especially when they hit teen years, that's not often a good place lol.

It's all good, I just re-read my post and thought it was ambiguous. Solid point about teenagers though, lol.

 

[Adam_Vania]

By learning not to fear death,

There is no need to fear the state of being dead, because you will not be aware of it.

some people have convinced themselves that they can reason away the most instinctual fear. great in theory, great on paper, but doesn't work in practice.

it's one thing to type the words "there is no need to fear death" but let's see how much good that sentence does for you when your parent or other loved one is dying in front of you.

 

[Monocle]

it would suck to not believe in an afterlife, glad I'm not in that boat!

Sucks more to delude yourself that all good people get a happy ending. It's pure wishful thinking, a way to shield yourself from the unpleasant facts of mortality.

Any child who is raised without that rubbish is at an advantage. They're less liable to be thrown by the ups and downs of life. They're more likely to recognize the fact that the universe doesn't owe them comfort or justice.

 

[Sarek]

Imagine being among the last generation that has to die and knowing it.

That's gonna be our generation. On average I should have about 50 years left. Unless they invent some kind of de-aging drug, not just one that halts aging, they better invent one pretty damn fast. I'm not gonna start taking it just to live forever as 60, or 70 years old.

 

[cameron]

House pets with short lives and/or Animal Kingdom nature shows may make it easier for children to understand.

There's isn't a comforting answer. You will have to not dwell on it.

Young children may be better at not dwelling on death. They are constantly barraged with new experiences that grabs/requires their attention; all of which they're trying to make sense of.

 

[Tater]

In general what are some largely atheist society's approach to life and death? What do they tell children who have experienced loss?

My grandmother died a couple of years ago, and I brought my son with me to the funeral (4 years old at the time).

I just tried to be honest with him. We'd visited her many times, and he had already seen her suffering from dementia. She recognized him, but she didn't talk any more. Him and I had talks about how much she loved him, but that she was very old and her body didn't work the same way it did when she was younger. But it didn't change how she felt about him.

At the service, I let him choose whether or not he wanted to look at her body (he did). I told him that it would look like she was sleeping, but that she wasn't. That all we know for sure is that her body doesn't work any more. Some people have different beliefs as to what happens when you die, but no one really knows for sure.

After the service we looked at pictures of her when she was younger, and talked about her life. And that even though he knew her near the end of her life, she had done so many things before they had met. By this time, he was getting antsy, and appreciated the chance to run around with the other kids that were at the reception.

I think you just need to be as sincere as possible, without sugar coating too much. At the same time, kids are still learning, so you might need to simplify a few things without being dishonest.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

it would suck to not believe in an afterlife, glad I'm not in that boat!

Imagine if you spent your entire life being told you could fly but are never allowed to try it for yourself. How would living with such a belief affect you as a person?

 

[Adam_Vania]

Sucks more to delude yourself that all good people get a happy ending. It's pure wishful thinking, a way to shield yourself from the unpleasant facts of mortality.

but if there is no ending at all, it shouldn't matter at all if it is "happy" or "sad". the resentment atheists have towards people that face the end optimistically, i've always found weird. it's unreasonable and intellectually incoherent, given the atheist idea that humans have total autonomy to dictate their lives.

and lol @ "facts". there are no "facts". nobody has died and come back to life and told us, yep, there's nothing.

 

[mentallyinept]

some people have convinced themselves that they can reason away the most instinctual fear. great in theory, great on paper, but doesn't work in practice.

it's one thing to type the words "there is no need to fear death" but let's see how much good that sentence does for you when your parent or other loved one is dying in front of you.

OK, I think there is a difference between not fearing death every day, and not fearing death when it is impending.

I'm pretty sure that these people are referring to the former rather than the latter.

 

[Monocle]

That's gonna be our generation. On average I should have about 50 years left. Unless they invent some kind of de-aging drug, not just one that halts aging, they better invent one pretty damn fast. I'm not gonna start taking it just to live forever as 60, or 70 years old.

Age reversal seems to me a likely side effect of any treatment that could achieve biological mortality.

 

[Maligna]

it would suck to not believe in an afterlife, glad I'm not in that boat!

Sucks more to delude yourself that all good people get a happy ending. It's pure wishful thinking, a way to shield yourself from the unpleasant facts of mortality.

Any child who is raised without that rubbish is at an advantage. They're less liable to be try thrown by the ups and downs of life. They're more likely to recognize the fact that the universe doesn't owe them comfort or justice.

Also will tend to be more skeptical overall, which means they will be less likely to be taken in by false information that could harm them.

Not to mention, realizing there is probably no afterlife lets you appreciate this one and not waste it. If you think life is just a warm up, you may not take full advantage of it. Then there's also the fact that a person who doesn't believe in an afterlife has no fear of hell weighing on them, which can be a source for stress in a lot of people.

 

[Pejo]

I wonder how many staunch athiests on GAF will change their mind when faced with their own mortality. I mean, you always see people getting more religious when they get older, and I've always assumed their viewpoint is "why not? what have I got to lose?"

I'm not leading anywhere with this thought, just genuinely curious how many people will change their tune when death is a more immediate concern.

This thread has been an interesting read.

 

[John Kowalski]

it would suck to not believe in an afterlife, glad I'm not in that boat!

It doesn't suck, i know and understand more about life because of it.

I wonder how many staunch athiests on GAF will change their mind when faced with their own mortality. I mean, you always see people getting more religious when they get older, and I've always assumed their viewpoint is "why not? what have I got to lose?"

I'm not leading anywhere with this thought, just genuinely curious how many people will change their tune when death is a more immediate concern.

This thread has been an interesting read.

Lots of people will probably change their opinions really quickly, letting themselves be overrun by the anxiety of dying. But at that point, that's all they are, anxious.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

I wonder how many staunch athiests on GAF will change their mind when faced with their own mortality. I mean, you always see people getting more religious when they get older, and I've always assumed their viewpoint is "why not? what have I got to lose?"

I'm not leading anywhere with this thought, just genuinely curious how many people will change their tune when death is a more immediate concern.

This thread has been an interesting read.

Believing in an afterlife at an early vs late point in your life are very very different because the former has a much stronger effect on how you spend your time on earth.

 

[mentallyinept]

I wonder how many staunch athiests on GAF will change their mind when faced with their own mortality. I mean, you always see people getting more religious when they get older, and I've always assumed their viewpoint is "why not? what have I got to lose?"

I'm not leading anywhere with this thought, just genuinely curious how many people will change their tune when death is a more immediate concern.

This thread has been an interesting read.

Eh, this is basically the "there are no atheists in foxholes" sentiment, which is completely untrue.

Of course there will be people who end up believing when they are facing death, but it's not a rule.

 

[Monocle]

but if there is no ending at all, it shouldn't matter at all if it is "happy" or "sad". the resentment atheists have towards people that face the end optimistically, i've always found weird. it's unreasonable and intellectually incoherent, given the atheist idea that humans have total autonomy to dictate their lives.

The resentment is more of a kind of frustration that comes from watching people's self-imposed naivety and their childish inability to accept evidence they don't like.

and lol @ "facts". there are no "facts". nobody has died and come back to life and told us, yep, there's nothing.

That's unnecessary if you know what a brain is.

We're mammals. It's not a bad thing.

 

[Malreyn]

Give them the Circle of Life speech from Lion King.

 

[Maligna]

I wonder how many staunch athiests on GAF will change their mind when faced with their own mortality. I mean, you always see people getting more religious when they get older...

Do you? I haven't seen this to be true. In fact I've seen it go both ways. Some get more religious, some get less, some don't change.

I wonder how many staunch athiests on GAF will change their mind when faced with their own mortality. I mean, you always see people getting more religious when they get older, and I've always assumed their viewpoint is "why not? what have I got to lose?"

Paschal's wager. Not a very sound argument.

Which god do you decide to arbitrarily throw your support behind at the end? Why not all of them, if you're just hedging yours bets. Wouldn't want to choose the wrong one after all.

And besides, don't you think a god could tell if your heart wasn't really in it?

 

[Always-honest]

Not all atheists are the same.

Death makes your one life extra important. As far as we can tell, it's the only life we have. So make it worthwhile.

Laugh, be kind and generous, make love with your lover, be a good friend, spouse, father/ mother, son/ daughter, etc. Do things that you like. Get out of you comfort zone often. Laugh some more. Find a job you really like, find a good bed, good friends and a good partner.

Have fun. Be curious. be open to new things.

Laugh.

I wonder how many staunch athiests on GAF will change their mind when faced with their own mortality. I mean, you always see people getting more religious when they get older, and I've always assumed their viewpoint is "why not? what have I got to lose?"

I'm not leading anywhere with this thought, just genuinely curious how many people will change their tune when death is a more immediate concern.

This thread has been an interesting read.

Those people already believed in heaven and a god. An atheist doesn't need a god, an atheist doesn't think of god. I never think of a god. Only when someone else mentions it.
The mistake you make is embedded in the word atheist. It's not a term most atheists use. Because it's too much of a reference to god (s). Many atheists just live their life without having religion or a god in their life. The word for that is atheist. But it's a dumb word. It puts too much emphasis on theism (while that lays no role).

 

[Lothar]

It's really not. Think of a light switch. It's a binary thing right? On or off.

That's your existence. One day, that switch flips to off, and the electrical impulses that you were made of cease to exist. You, for all intents and purposes, cease to exist.

As far as explaining it to a child, ask them what life was like before they were born. It's the same thing.

If the switch never came back on, turning it off would be the worst thing ever for that switch. It would tell you that if it could think.

That's a horrible thing to say to a child IMO. That's the equivalent of saying "Everything you do will amount to nothing." Wait until they're older to drop that harsh reality if you have to drop it at all.

 

[SocksAndShoes]

I wonder how many staunch athiests on GAF will change their mind when faced with their own mortality. I mean, you always see people getting more religious when they get older, and I've always assumed their viewpoint is "why not? what have I got to lose?"

Sorry but this is completely wrong. Atheists do not gradually become religious as they approach death.

 

[OldMan]

I'm no Atheist but my bet is they don't "approach" death rather than deal, prepare and embrace death.

 

[Jasup]

It's great that she has that approach. But I would guess that it's not typical. I could never see myself thinking that.

How could you get someone, like say, your kids to believe that? Someone telling me that a person has had enough life is like telling me Up is down and Down is up. Even if someone died at age 1000, I believe that would be horrible.

Not enough life but a good life is enough.
Life is a shared experience, and even though my grandmother's life is about to end she really takes comfort in knowing that we will go on living a good life. It's not all about you, but also about those you live your life with.

 

[SocksAndShoes]

If the switch never came back on, turning it off would be the worst thing ever for that switch. It would tell you that if it could think.

That's a horrible thing to say to a child IMO. That's the equivalent of saying "Everything you do will amount to nothing." Wait until they're older to drop that harsh reality if you have to drop it at all.

The switch doesn't know it's been turned off. It can't tell you anything because it doesn't exist. There is no "it" to tell the story.

Same as before you were born. You couldn't experience anything because you didn't exist.

As far as "everything you do amounts to nothing", that's only true if you believe your actions and words have no meaning. That sounds like a self-esteem issue and not an existential one.

How about teaching the child that his or her actions DO have meaning, that the words they say and the things they do now affect the world they live in later?

 

[PjotrStroganov]

My grandmother died a couple of years ago, and I brought my son with me to the funeral (4 years old at the time).

I just tried to be honest with him. We'd visited her many times, and he had already seen her suffering from dementia. She recognized him, but she didn't talk any more. Him and I had talks about how much she loved him, but that she was very old and her body didn't work the same way it did when she was younger. But it didn't change how she felt about him.

At the service, I let him choose whether or not he wanted to look at her body (he did). I told him that it would look like she was sleeping, but that she wasn't. That all we know for sure is that her body doesn't work any more. Some people have different beliefs as to what happens when you die, but no one really knows for sure.

After the service we looked at pictures of her when she was younger, and talked about her life. And that even though he knew her near the end of her life, she had done so many things before they had met. By this time, he was getting antsy, and appreciated the chance to run around with the other kids that were at the reception.

I think you just need to be as sincere as possible, without sugar coating too much. At the same time, kids are still learning, so you might need to simplify a few things without being dishonest.

Nice approach. Very recognizeable.

 

[Monocle]

I wonder how many staunch athiests on GAF will change their mind when faced with their own mortality. I mean, you always see people getting more religious when they get older, and I've always assumed their viewpoint is "why not? what have I got to lose?"

I'm not leading anywhere with this thought, just genuinely curious how many people will change their tune when death is a more immediate concern.

This thread has been an interesting read.

You can't magically decide to believe something. Becoming genuinely persuaded that something is true doesn't work that way.

Also, Pascal's Wager is for dumb people. It reduces God to an idiot conman who doesn't care about sincere belief, as long as you mouth the right words to get into heaven.

It's really, really stupid.

BTW, the old "no atheists in foxholes" argument is an insulting little piece of propaganda. "Everybody gives into fear and abandons their principles in the end!" You're not going to nab the more informed posters with that one, I assure you.

My grandmother died a couple of years ago, and I brought my son with me to the funeral (4 years old at the time).

I just tried to be honest with him. We'd visited her many times, and he had already seen her suffering from dementia. She recognized him, but she didn't talk any more. Him and I had talks about how much she loved him, but that she was very old and her body didn't work the same way it did when she was younger. But it didn't change how she felt about him.

At the service, I let him choose whether or not he wanted to look at her body (he did). I told him that it would look like she was sleeping, but that she wasn't. That all we know for sure is that her body doesn't work any more. Some people have different beliefs as to what happens when you die, but no one really knows for sure.

After the service we looked at pictures of her when she was younger, and talked about her life. And that even though he knew her near the end of her life, she had done so many things before they had met. By this time, he was getting antsy, and appreciated the chance to run around with the other kids that were at the reception.

I think you just need to be as sincere as possible, without sugar coating too much. At the same time, kids are still learning, so you might need to simplify a few things without being dishonest.

Seems like a fine way to go about it.

 

[capitalCORN]

I wonder how many staunch athiests on GAF will change their mind when faced with their own mortality. I mean, you always see people getting more religious when they get older, and I've always assumed their viewpoint is "why not? what have I got to lose?"

I've been dragged by the neck by rope, I've had people try to stab me, and I've got the scars to prove it. Not once in those moments did I fear death, I valued life.

 

[azyless]

I mean, you always see people getting more religious when they get older

Feels like you're getting facts out of your ass tbh.
I know it's hard to grasp but some people just don't believe in all that stuff. Not when they were kids, not now, not on their death bed, and I can assure you we're not traumatized or missing anything in life.

If the switch never came back on, turning it off would be the worst thing ever for that switch. It would tell you that if it could think.
That's a horrible thing to say to a child IMO. That's the equivalent of saying "Everything you do will amount to nothing." Wait until they're older to drop that harsh reality if you have to drop it at all.

No it's not, and it isn't horrible to tell a child about death.

 

[Linkyn]

You can still think about death from a philosophical or spiritual point of view, even if you don't adhere to any particular faith. There's a greater order to the universe, regardless of who or what created the rules we get to play with. We are all but virtually negligible parts of a whole of (literally) cosmic proportion, but everyone still has their part to play. Interestingly enough, the universe is a pretty huge place, so statistically speaking, odds are there have been beings not unlike you somewhere before, and perhaps will be again. The goal then becomes to make the most of the time that is given to you here and now, as well as to try to leave the world and beyond in a better state than it was.

 

[Platy]

There is no ritual more atheistic than a Christian funeral.

People get sad that the person is gone and we hold their bodies in a safe place out of the way.

Christians should be fucking happy if someone dies and give little care of the body remains if what they really believe to care is the soul which is probably going right now to the most perfect place to live eternal happiness next to God and all the angels.

 

[dlauv]

Atheism does not preclude a belief in the afterlife.

I think you're thinking of secular humanism.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

Atheism does not preclude a belief in the afterlife.

So there's no god but there is some completely undetectable mechanism by which we all go to a parallel reality totally disconnect from this one and stay there forever once our body's cease to function?

 

[Kurdel]

So there's no god but there is some completely undetectable mechanism by which we all go to a parallel reality totally disconnect from this one and stay there forever once our body's cease to function?

Why not?

Our limited Human understanding means we think a house needs a builder.

If there were to be an afterlife, I would guess it would beyong our comprehension.

 

[Van Bur3n]

strive to establish the republic of heaven on earth

This is a good post.

 

[Monocle]

Why not?

Russell's Teapot.

 

[bonesmccoy]

Sorry but this is completely wrong. Atheists do not gradually become religious as they approach death.

I've talked to a friend - a priest - who has worked as a chaplain and care-giver in hospitals, hospices, for most of his adult life. This certainly does happen, but so does the opposite. He's told me stories of atheists who've had sincere conversions as they approach death, and he's told me stories of erstwhile believers who've gone the opposite way, become angry that the all mighty supreme being is letting this happen (which, for Christians, is a pretty strange and naive thing). The only 'rule' I think we can discern is that every person deals with their mortality in their own way - that there 7 billion exit strategies.

There is no ritual more atheistic than a Christian funeral.

Er, no.

 

[Kurdel]

Russell's Teapot.

When talking comparatively about metaphysical beliefs, litteraly everything is possible.

Russel's teapot could actually be argued to exist if you don't need reality to be a factor in the debate.