-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Insomniac: Overstrike focus groups thought the old art style was for kids
- Thread starter Tagg9
- Start date
EA's focus groups
It was either one or the other.
So Crimson Viper was indirectly the fault of your focus group?
They must be the ones that Team Ninja listened to as well.
I hadn't heard anything about the game until after it came out. I remember picking it up on a whim after some people said that is was pretty good. Best Buy had a B2G1 promotion going on, so I settled on that one as my freebie. It ended up surpassing all my expectations and was my second favorite game released that year. (second to Forza 3
)What a terrible decision financially, think about it. Ratchet and Clank fans see Overstrike before the switch, they think "Hey, this looks like Ratchet and Clank, I love Ratchet and Clank! There's no platforming? But there's tons of guns and abilities? A more gritty and realistic Ratchet and Clank would be Awesome."
Now they look at Overstrike/Fuse and think "This is made by the guys that made Ratchet and Clank? It looks like Army of Two with abilities, no thanks."
Now they look at Overstrike/Fuse and think "This is made by the guys that made Ratchet and Clank? It looks like Army of Two with abilities, no thanks."
Let's not mince words: focus groups have the purpose of democratizing game design. That is to say, you're taking your game design, and your art design, and subjecting it to the "constructive" criticism of people who probably know absolutely nothing about either one. So when you alter your game based on the criticisms of focus groups, just remember, what you're actually saying is that you have more faith in the decisions of people who are literally ignorant about how to make games than you do in your own.
And that's just stupid.
And that's just stupid.
MrTroubleMaker
Gold Member
Hmm a potential M rated game, "hey lets have 12 year olds tell us what they think of it". I thought the ESRB didn't want young children to be exposed to this type of content.
jstevenson
Sailor Stevenson
Again. Please re-read my comments in the OP. this refers to the ORIGINAL pitch -> Overstrike.
It does not refer to Overstrike -> Fuse
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Like I said in the other thead......
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=41824148&postcount=256
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=41824148&postcount=256
God that article... why do Americans like generic dudebros so much??
the humor definitely feels that way.
To be fair Viper is a terribly designed SF character. Doesn't have a recognizable fighting style (Abel- Judo, Sagat-kickboxing, Ryu-karate, etc) or a look (Chun-Li - Chinese dress, Guile-miltary). Beyond that she is the only good guy that resorts to using technology to fight.
Forceatowulf
G***n S**n*bi
Amazing. I was actually interested in this game when it was first announced and the art style was a huge part of it. Then I saw the footage on GTTV and my interest crashed and burned.
Did we really need another bland looking generic shooter, Insomniac? Did we really need it? Jesus Christ...
Did we really need another bland looking generic shooter, Insomniac? Did we really need it? Jesus Christ...
graywolf323
Member
I swear when have focus groups ever done anything positive for video games?
Posted in the last thread, but Valve's focus group testing seems to work extremely well.
There's possibly the angle of cutting that kind of gameplay out of R&C, dumping that baggage, and REALLY grow it as its own game. Thus, Fuse.
Yeah, I didn't even know it existed until, like a week or two before release as "FPS Diablo", which got my interest enough to rent it at least.
Yep. People automatically assume "user testing != bad" but it's up to the developer to make good use of the data they collect.
ChosenPredator
Banned
well now everyone is going to be analyzing every facet of this game so success for them because people are going to be paying attention even though its for a bad reason lol
Shrennin
Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
Yeah, I mean people they get to test are there to mimic the people that will be actually playing the game. You shouldn't get them to help enforce design decisions that are out of their know-how, but they can be used to really good effect when it comes to balancing and whatnot.
There's a difference between playtesting and what Insomniac used these focus groups for.
Vandalfish
Neo Member
Kids think everything is for kids if it's marketed towards them. My fucking nephew hated pokemon when he was 7 because it was 'for kids'. wtf? Same with a lot of other "kid" things.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
User testing from friends and family = good. Focus testing from 11 year olds pulled from Craigslist = bad.
Fair enough. I should have just posted a couple of Simpsons gifs.
I liked Crimson Viper. ;_;
Probably more like user testing from average teen Xbox 360 and PS3 gamer = bad.
Testing from average adult PC gamer = good.
la flama blanca
Banned
Focus groups are so fucking stupid. The suits cling to them like glue and only are used to legitimize their own ideas.
I mentioned this in another thread, I was in one of those focus groups in Austin. Not sure how much I'm allowed to talk about now as there was an NDA (though everything we saw and way more has been public for a long time), but this definitely was the problem. I seemed to be the only one who was like "Cool, it could be like playing a really good game for The Incredibles or something". Almost everyone else reacted just like this article says. And I couldn't help but overhear everyone else also arranging times to play CoD and/or Battlefield with each other, no joke.
EDIT: actually read through the thread now, my group saw the E3 trailer and some REALLY early gameplay, it wasn't the apparently even more "kiddy" pre-Overstrike he's talking about.
EDIT: actually read through the thread now, my group saw the E3 trailer and some REALLY early gameplay, it wasn't the apparently even more "kiddy" pre-Overstrike he's talking about.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Focus group in gaming rarely lead to anything good.
This. And it should reflect the circumstance and the stuff that he went through, not look like a carefree fucking douche.
This. And it should reflect the circumstance and the stuff that he went through, not look like a carefree fucking douche.
I wonder if/how games like Deus Ex, Demon's Souls, Ico (trying to think of games that would elicit a disgusted response from the general public) were ever put through focus groups. How many games we accept as classics were largely influenced by focus groups that we never knew about?
I remember a Kamiya interview where he discusses the focus group for Devil May Cry where he expected the children to be polite, but they said how much they hated the game and Dante was stupid and they would never buy it (paraphrased).
I remember a Kamiya interview where he discusses the focus group for Devil May Cry where he expected the children to be polite, but they said how much they hated the game and Dante was stupid and they would never buy it (paraphrased).
It makes sense. Kids want to play what their older brother plays.
I don't like the fact that the solution to this issue was to make something that seems incredibly generic, but I really disliked the original Overstrike art direction and tone. I think it would have been a huge failure if they put out that product.
I don't like the fact that the solution to this issue was to make something that seems incredibly generic, but I really disliked the original Overstrike art direction and tone. I think it would have been a huge failure if they put out that product.
Don't insult king of fighters.She belonged in KoF game tbh
la flama blanca
Banned
Trust me when I say this by working in an associated industry. Yes, they all were ( to some extent, curious to know about Demon Soul's testing though).
AgentChris
Member
With the success of Borderlands, I'm surprised Insomniac isn't staying true to their vision. More lighthearted and colorful games are needed. Not generic looking shootahs.
In a way, this is disappointing. It also sucks to think about how much influence editors have had on the final text of great books. You really want to think there is an author out there who can craft something incredible on his or her own.
Its still difficult to imagine something like Killer 7 being put through a focus group.
AdventureRacing
Member
I hadn't really heard of this game before so i went back and watched the old and new styles. The change in direction was such a terrible idea. The original looked very interesting and i could have seen it finding its own audience like borderlands if advertised properly.
The new style has bomb written all over it. The style is generic and just completely uninteresting, no one is going to look twice at this game no matter how good the gameplay is.
Also i know this isn't a good metric but the likes to dislikes on the youtube clips are amazing for the new style. Usually you only see that level of dislikes on something if it's a troll video or just really fucking bad. Most of the time these things just have a full green bar, pretty impressive to manage to get that many people to dislike it.
The new style has bomb written all over it. The style is generic and just completely uninteresting, no one is going to look twice at this game no matter how good the gameplay is.
Also i know this isn't a good metric but the likes to dislikes on the youtube clips are amazing for the new style. Usually you only see that level of dislikes on something if it's a troll video or just really fucking bad. Most of the time these things just have a full green bar, pretty impressive to manage to get that many people to dislike it.
She belonged in KoF game tbh
I was just going to say, I love Viper's character design... because she's totally an SNK character. *heh*
Interesting to hear jstevensen's comments.
Insomniac has always geared their output towards what they think will be popular (Spyro when mascot platformers were big, Resistance when mature scifi shooters were all the rage) so I'm sure that this is them making what they believe to have the most mass appeal. They've done remarkably well with this approach in the past, but in this scenario it is clearly a misstep.
Insomniac has always geared their output towards what they think will be popular (Spyro when mascot platformers were big, Resistance when mature scifi shooters were all the rage) so I'm sure that this is them making what they believe to have the most mass appeal. They've done remarkably well with this approach in the past, but in this scenario it is clearly a misstep.
Totally. I don't get why some people say this like it's a bad thing. That's the gimmick. Her style is "KOF" style. Ryu is standard karate guy, Viper is standard KOF chick. I think it falls right in line with the other looks in SF.
Also, Nu Cole was horrible because he was nothing like old Cole.
And fuck focus testing these motherfucking dudes bros and their fucking mountain dew fucking bullshit...fuck
timetokill
Banned
So, basically the typical "hardcore" gamer that Sony and MS fall all over themselves marketing to. Little kids that are scared to death that somebody might think they're a little kid.
So instead of a carefree fucking douche, you'd prefer your douches to be straight-up with just a hint of Mein Kampf?
I don't know if the gentler Cole was the best route they could have gone in, but the answer wasn't to take the old design and give him a scar.