Gnome Scat
Member
You can be nice, just don't be a kiss ass.
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Is being nice a bad thing?
- Thread starter Megalosaro
- Start date
The Albatross
Member
Your friend is wrong.
I am nice to people. Most people think that I'm nice most of the time. I am quick to forgive. If someone makes a mistake and they say they're sorry, and then are genuine in their apology (e.g., they don't use "I'm sorry" as a introduction to justify why they're not sorry, most often seen in "I'm sorry, but..."), then I'm going to move on. I'll even move on instantly from a slight or issue if someone is sorry about it, and even if they don't say that they're sorry, I usually try to empathize with them, with the idea that, generally, most people don't want to do the wrong thing. That said, if someone breaks my trust or I lose trust in them, then it very well may be impossible for them to get that back from me. Integrity goes a long way with me, and if you don't have integrity, then I'll generally keep that person at arms length.
At work, I am still nice, but that doesn't mean I can't give critical feedback. I strongly believe that the right feedback given in the right way to a person who is open to it -- as all people should be -- makes a better person and a better work environment. I'll give critical feedback to someone in the right way in the honest hope that the person improves in that area. Most people do. People who shut down to feedback, can't take it, and then get mad at you, probably have some issues to figure out and they're going to find themselves falling behind.
Your friend who is the asshole guy is going to find himself in bad social situations, or with few friends, or he'll die alone. And while maybe he'd convince himself that those things don't matter, that only nice people care about relationships, well then, good for him. Go do that, and be lonely and die alone, or change, make friends, and have people like you.
From past threads, this guy sounds like a fucking maniac. No wonder he gets incredibly pissed when other people have sex, he's got some deep personality flaws, probably a super-high persecution complex (e.g., always thinking that someone is wronging him, or when something goes wrong for him that it was somebody's choice intentionally for the sake of wronging him), and likely can't rationalize how any decisions he makes could be wrong (e.g., incredibly defensive).
Y'know, you read/hear this a lot put into a variety of different anecdotes, social lessons, and what have you (e.g., "Nice guys finish last" etc), but I don't really think it's true. Genuinely nasty people generally don't succeed, they alienate people from them, they're prone to making bad decisions, and they generally have less of a safety/social net to fall back on. I don't think people really understand other people's motivations when they do something 'bad' either, or they think in a short-sighted way.
When thinking of contemporary people who are generally thought of as "bad" people, I might look at someone like Bernie Madoff, who virtually all people universally think is "bad." He was incentivized to run a ponzi scheme for decades, and for quite a while, it seemed like he was riding high... But, if you ever have the chance to listen to the Ponzi Supernova podcast about Madoff, you find that, generally, he was miserable. He knew that his financial empire was a house of cards, but for some deep personality flaw, he wasn't able to stop himself from pumping the ponzi scheme with more cash. While he lived a miserable private life though may have has the veneer of having it all (ultra wealthy, Manhattan apartment, wife and family, etc), it all unravelled just as he always knew it would. He ended up in jail, one of his sons killed himself because of his father, the other son's cancer came out of remission and it killed him, and Madoff is serving out the rest of his life in prison, while all of his family's assets have been liquidated to return the majority of investments to investors who he screwed over.
But if you ever get the chance to listen to Madoff, for the most part, you get the feeling that he wasn't acting out of greed or malice (though what he did was certainly malicious), but that he was acting out of some peculiar inability to deliver reasonable investment returns. He was, in a way, motivated to please his clients, it was just such a misplaced, poorly executed motivation that it led him to creating the single largest ponzi scheme in financial history.
I am nice to people. Most people think that I'm nice most of the time. I am quick to forgive. If someone makes a mistake and they say they're sorry, and then are genuine in their apology (e.g., they don't use "I'm sorry" as a introduction to justify why they're not sorry, most often seen in "I'm sorry, but..."), then I'm going to move on. I'll even move on instantly from a slight or issue if someone is sorry about it, and even if they don't say that they're sorry, I usually try to empathize with them, with the idea that, generally, most people don't want to do the wrong thing. That said, if someone breaks my trust or I lose trust in them, then it very well may be impossible for them to get that back from me. Integrity goes a long way with me, and if you don't have integrity, then I'll generally keep that person at arms length.
At work, I am still nice, but that doesn't mean I can't give critical feedback. I strongly believe that the right feedback given in the right way to a person who is open to it -- as all people should be -- makes a better person and a better work environment. I'll give critical feedback to someone in the right way in the honest hope that the person improves in that area. Most people do. People who shut down to feedback, can't take it, and then get mad at you, probably have some issues to figure out and they're going to find themselves falling behind.
Your friend who is the asshole guy is going to find himself in bad social situations, or with few friends, or he'll die alone. And while maybe he'd convince himself that those things don't matter, that only nice people care about relationships, well then, good for him. Go do that, and be lonely and die alone, or change, make friends, and have people like you.
From past threads, this guy sounds like a fucking maniac. No wonder he gets incredibly pissed when other people have sex, he's got some deep personality flaws, probably a super-high persecution complex (e.g., always thinking that someone is wronging him, or when something goes wrong for him that it was somebody's choice intentionally for the sake of wronging him), and likely can't rationalize how any decisions he makes could be wrong (e.g., incredibly defensive).
I'm just saying society incentivises being a bad person.
Y'know, you read/hear this a lot put into a variety of different anecdotes, social lessons, and what have you (e.g., "Nice guys finish last" etc), but I don't really think it's true. Genuinely nasty people generally don't succeed, they alienate people from them, they're prone to making bad decisions, and they generally have less of a safety/social net to fall back on. I don't think people really understand other people's motivations when they do something 'bad' either, or they think in a short-sighted way.
When thinking of contemporary people who are generally thought of as "bad" people, I might look at someone like Bernie Madoff, who virtually all people universally think is "bad." He was incentivized to run a ponzi scheme for decades, and for quite a while, it seemed like he was riding high... But, if you ever have the chance to listen to the Ponzi Supernova podcast about Madoff, you find that, generally, he was miserable. He knew that his financial empire was a house of cards, but for some deep personality flaw, he wasn't able to stop himself from pumping the ponzi scheme with more cash. While he lived a miserable private life though may have has the veneer of having it all (ultra wealthy, Manhattan apartment, wife and family, etc), it all unravelled just as he always knew it would. He ended up in jail, one of his sons killed himself because of his father, the other son's cancer came out of remission and it killed him, and Madoff is serving out the rest of his life in prison, while all of his family's assets have been liquidated to return the majority of investments to investors who he screwed over.
But if you ever get the chance to listen to Madoff, for the most part, you get the feeling that he wasn't acting out of greed or malice (though what he did was certainly malicious), but that he was acting out of some peculiar inability to deliver reasonable investment returns. He was, in a way, motivated to please his clients, it was just such a misplaced, poorly executed motivation that it led him to creating the single largest ponzi scheme in financial history.
LookAtMeGo
Member
I hate when people mistake my kindness for weakness. That'll bring out my ugly side pretty quick if I feel someone is takng advantage of it. It takes a special kind of asshole to do that.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Assholes believe they are winners because beating on people around them can seem to get immediate and easy results.
Like all quick paths to power however, there are downsides. For one, abusing and threatening someone to force them to do something won't make them an ally or get them to reciprocate when you are in need. They may do what you want, but they still think you're a worthless asshole.
Ironically, "tough love" has a way of strengthening the abused person until they turn on the abuser and take them down. It's the classic story of the abusive father who believes their child is a "wimp" and so beats them to toughen them up. Until one day the child, now hardened from conflict, stands up and punches the father's lights out then walks away never to return. Leaving the father wondering what he did wrong, and why he has been abandoned.
However, the OP does make it sound as if their personal asshole has a point about them being "soft" in that they won't tell this guy to shove it. It can be difficult to understand that assholes often use a truth to tell a lie: in this case, the lie is that because the OP is "too nice" the asshole is within his rights to walk all over them and belittle them.
Like all quick paths to power however, there are downsides. For one, abusing and threatening someone to force them to do something won't make them an ally or get them to reciprocate when you are in need. They may do what you want, but they still think you're a worthless asshole.
Ironically, "tough love" has a way of strengthening the abused person until they turn on the abuser and take them down. It's the classic story of the abusive father who believes their child is a "wimp" and so beats them to toughen them up. Until one day the child, now hardened from conflict, stands up and punches the father's lights out then walks away never to return. Leaving the father wondering what he did wrong, and why he has been abandoned.
However, the OP does make it sound as if their personal asshole has a point about them being "soft" in that they won't tell this guy to shove it. It can be difficult to understand that assholes often use a truth to tell a lie: in this case, the lie is that because the OP is "too nice" the asshole is within his rights to walk all over them and belittle them.
blame space
Banned
I just want to make it clear that on the inside, I am an asshole.
I'm just saying society incentivises being a bad person.
Alright, that stance I can understand. The fuck you, got mine attitude does make life easier.
He actually used this as a way too insult me. Called me out into the living room and then started making fun of how "soft and gentle" i am.
It is good to have a friend who isn't afraid to be the asshole. What you need is for him to be more than just the asshole though. There is more than one path to success/happiness/achievements. He needs to learn when to switch it off. It isn't always just about the immediate results of this kind of treatment in friendships as I'm sure you understand as it sounds like you're feeling the strain already.
Being nice has its perks too but it isn't always the best approach. Nothing is really, it is all situational.
Megalosaro
Banned
What exactly does this guy do for work where he can be a complete asshole and make apparently 100k+?
An engineer for a big oil company.
This guy sounds like he may have some legitimate sort of mental issues. Sociopathy/narcissistic personality disorder, at the minimum. Do you have any plans to cut ties from him? You really should before he does something to really drag you down. He's no doubt going to be a ticking time bomb eventually when something in life doesn't go his way.
Empathy, love, & kindness make the world go round. If there's only one lesson in adulthood that I've learned, it's that they are the only things that make life worth a damn. Being kind is much harder than being an asshole, I don't know how people can take pride in it.
Your friend is an asshole & he'll figure that out someday when it's far too late & he's all alone.
Your friend is an asshole & he'll figure that out someday when it's far too late & he's all alone.
lol Oil would have been my guess. They clamped down on drug and alcohol issues years ago but its still home to plenty of complete shit bags like your roommate.An engineer for a big oil company.
excelsiorlef
Member
Being nice is fine, being good is better
Megalosaro
Banned
Empathy, love, & kindness make the world go round. If there's only one lesson in adulthood that I've learned, it's that they are the only things that make life worth a damn. Being kind is much harder than being an asshole, I don't know how people can take pride in it.
Your friend is an asshole & he'll figure that out someday when it's far too late & he's all alone.
He knows he's an asshole. He takes pride in it.
But then he goes and whines to his mentor because nobody likes him. She doesn't like him either, especially after he wrote a 4 page email cursing her out becuase she didn't want to go into business with him.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
I think you should just kill him. With kindness.
You should have left a long time ago.
Why don't you just ask him why he's such a fucking cunt to everyone and that he should just off himself cause everyone hates him. Like, have you just straight up dipped into your inner viciousness and let him.have it? He threatens you with a bat, set his fucking car on fire if you don't want to call the cops on his douchebag ass.
You should have left a long time ago.
Why don't you just ask him why he's such a fucking cunt to everyone and that he should just off himself cause everyone hates him. Like, have you just straight up dipped into your inner viciousness and let him.have it? He threatens you with a bat, set his fucking car on fire if you don't want to call the cops on his douchebag ass.
Prodigal Son
Member
wtf is 'weakness' in this context?
Like being a pushover? Being a dick is leagues worse than being a pushover.
Your roommate has an unfortunate worldview. I hope it changes.
Like being a pushover? Being a dick is leagues worse than being a pushover.
Your roommate has an unfortunate worldview. I hope it changes.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
I honestly think you are at the point where you should be actively and consistently fucking him over.
miller.skippins
Banned
For what it's worth, he's been treating me like utter shit for the last two months because he wants me to get a better job.
The shitty thing is: It's actually motivated me to job hunt. I fucking hate that too.
Steve Jobs used to be the greatest jerk in the room during his prime...and all the engineers hated him to the core' as a person (due to constant threats & abuse) but also appreciated him as a leader (because apparently Steve jobs is the only person that managed to push them to do tasks deemed impossible). Read the autobiography.
Curt Baboon
Member
How many Linkin Park posters does this friend of yours have?
ForkNetwork
Banned
Being a nice guy? No, not at all
Being a "nice guy"? um, thats awkward at best
Being a "nice guy"? um, thats awkward at best
Being nice as a way to get something from another person is not a good thing.
Being nice because it is your default nature is a neutral thing.
Being nice because it makes you feel good and being able to admit to that selfishness is OK.
Being nice even though it is hard because you feel the world needs more niceness is a worthwhile endeavour.
Being nice because it is your default nature is a neutral thing.
Being nice because it makes you feel good and being able to admit to that selfishness is OK.
Being nice even though it is hard because you feel the world needs more niceness is a worthwhile endeavour.
Human beings tend to take each other for granted.
Here's an analogy. Let say within a group of friends, you gave everyone $100 but just one of them $90. The one that got $90 would feel aggrieved instead of being $90 better off. Being "nice" to everyone just mean you're putting in more effort to get something in return. Unless you're in a position of power or is selectively + discreetly in "being nice", it's usually not ideal approach for interactions with people.
You still need some basic human decency though but not cross over the line of being a pushover.
Here's an analogy. Let say within a group of friends, you gave everyone $100 but just one of them $90. The one that got $90 would feel aggrieved instead of being $90 better off. Being "nice" to everyone just mean you're putting in more effort to get something in return. Unless you're in a position of power or is selectively + discreetly in "being nice", it's usually not ideal approach for interactions with people.
You still need some basic human decency though but not cross over the line of being a pushover.
AppleSeason
Member
I'm "nice" by default (more of a conflict avoiding pushover) and I sometimes hate it. But... "Beware the nice ones". It takes something big to make me go full asshole.
FinalStageBoss
Banned
Nothing wrong with being nice tbh. Your friend is pathetic though, shit's gonna hurt when he's old and alone, and not a single person gives a fuck about him.
Pretty much this!I hate when people mistake my kindness for weakness. That'll bring out my ugly side pretty quick if I feel someone is takng advantage of it. It takes a special kind of asshole to do that.
Red Liquorice
Member
Why isn't this the first reply.Your friend is an insecure pathetic edgelord op.
CecilRousso
Member
There's a difference between being firm when needed, and being a constant asshole.
And considering how OP describes the former friend, he seems to have a succesful career, but suck at many other things, so being an asshole doesn't seem to be the key. There's more important things then money and career.
And considering how OP describes the former friend, he seems to have a succesful career, but suck at many other things, so being an asshole doesn't seem to be the key. There's more important things then money and career.
FreeMufasa
Junior Member
I do, and he hates it. He can't stand that I make almost 100k less than him, yet have a girlfriend.
He rationalizes it by saying she's "of lower value" because she's "so ugly [he] can't even stand to look at her" and older than me by a few years.
True story.
WTF. How did you not fuck him up after this..???
Sad Affleck
Member
Your friend sounds like the villain boyfriend in a romantic movie that the love interest is inexplicably in a relationship with. Being decisive and taking risks or showing a friend some tough live to set them straight is one thing, being a complete and utter asshole is quite another.
WTF. How did you not fuck him up after this..???
Yeah, Jesus Christ, Op. Why are you still friends with this shitbag?
Ask yourself if you stay friends with him because you genuinely like him or because you are afraid of him
If the only thing he values about women are their looks then aiming for a relationship is aiming too high. Ask him why he wants a girlfriend I'd be very interested in the responseI do, and he hates it. He can't stand that I make almost 100k less than him, yet have a girlfriend.
He rationalizes it by saying she's "of lower value" because she's "so ugly [he] can't even stand to look at her" and older than me by a few years.
True story.
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