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Japan to foreign workers: We don't need you anymore; get out & don't come back ever
- Thread starter Piper Az
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Baraka in the White House
2-Terms of Kombat
RevenantKioku said:
And her ass is all ass.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
Jamesfrom818 said:They could be throwing out girls that grow up to look like this
Their loss.
I saw this picture from the bottom half and thought "hey that dude's well built" then I scrolled up and I think I just ripped a hole in my boxer shorts.
Green Biker Dude said:
The only real countries that can do this are the USA, Canada, Australia and NZ. When it comes to immigration, Britain (like most of the EU) has it's hands tied. Which is actually quite a relief considering that the English would probably vote to throw all of the Eastern Europeans in the UK into the North Sea.
I've heard a few stories about Korea having a fairly racist streak, but I'm hoping I don't encounter that much shit when I'm over there.
Troidal said:
I have never understood the way in which some people on the internet talk about Japan like it is the Mecca or some shit. I put it down to a lack of self esteem, but the "grass is always greener" myth is a powerful snare.
RSLAEV
Member
Blackace said:
Alright, I was being a bit facetious. It is fucked up that they would invite people over as laborers and then give them the bum's rush when the economy slows down, but this doesn't seem like the kind of issue that pressure from foreigners can do anything about. The Japanese are Xenophobic, they've made no bones about it up to this point, this really is kind of par for the course for them.
And as for the 'video games and anime's remark', that's really the only reason most of us give that country so much attention in the first place. I don't think Japan is some wonderful place that I would like to live or even visit for longer than a week, but I sure as hell love those cartoons so keep em comin'
So many people have misconceptions about Japan: both good and bad. People think it's either an anime paradise or that you will be caned and spit on for being white. Japan has different social problems than America, so many are quick to jump the gun and condemn them because we are not used to seeing such problems. It's the same on their side, American social problems baffle the Japanese as well.
Japan obviously isn't a place for everyone. Some people live there for a few years and say it was fun but they could never imagine settling down. But then there are others who do settle down there permanently and enjoy it. People say, "How could you ever live in Japan?" You could say that about California, or New York, or Texas. But people do, and people enjoy it. My dad talked to an American who lived there since the 1970s and he says he wouldn't live anywhere else for all the money in the world. Can you imagine all the social changes he's experienced?
Xenophobic has been tacked on as a synonym for Japan, which I think is really unfair. Saying a country is xenophobic is pretty xenophobic in itself. Are some Japanese people xenophobic? Sure. Is the majority of the country? That's a pretty huge generalization. Having traveled to many countries including Japan, I can tell you that you really cannot sum up and entire race of people or a nation. There are just so many different experiences and situations that shape your perception, so it's easy to see how some reactions can be so mixed. For example, when I went to Japan for about two weeks, I did not experience a single negative incident with other Japanese. People often ran up to me and asked if I needed help. They undoubtedly wanted to practice their English, but it also shows that Japanese people can be open and helpful. People who couldn't even speak English went out of their way to help me as well, and I'm not just talking about police officers or whatever, but normal people.
Obviously this is a pretty skewed experience. I didn't travel to every area in Japan, and I was there for a limited time. But it does show that you simply cannot generalize people. Saying that "Japan is xenophobic" is undoubtedly hurtful to the many Japanese people who have no ill feelings towards foreigners or who have worked hard to improving the image of Japanese people abroad.
Is what the government doing now terrible? Of course. Some nation's government does something terribly stupid and short-sighted, news at 11. Never judge a people by their leader. Eight years of Bush back me up on this.
Japan obviously isn't a place for everyone. Some people live there for a few years and say it was fun but they could never imagine settling down. But then there are others who do settle down there permanently and enjoy it. People say, "How could you ever live in Japan?" You could say that about California, or New York, or Texas. But people do, and people enjoy it. My dad talked to an American who lived there since the 1970s and he says he wouldn't live anywhere else for all the money in the world. Can you imagine all the social changes he's experienced?
Xenophobic has been tacked on as a synonym for Japan, which I think is really unfair. Saying a country is xenophobic is pretty xenophobic in itself. Are some Japanese people xenophobic? Sure. Is the majority of the country? That's a pretty huge generalization. Having traveled to many countries including Japan, I can tell you that you really cannot sum up and entire race of people or a nation. There are just so many different experiences and situations that shape your perception, so it's easy to see how some reactions can be so mixed. For example, when I went to Japan for about two weeks, I did not experience a single negative incident with other Japanese. People often ran up to me and asked if I needed help. They undoubtedly wanted to practice their English, but it also shows that Japanese people can be open and helpful. People who couldn't even speak English went out of their way to help me as well, and I'm not just talking about police officers or whatever, but normal people.
Obviously this is a pretty skewed experience. I didn't travel to every area in Japan, and I was there for a limited time. But it does show that you simply cannot generalize people. Saying that "Japan is xenophobic" is undoubtedly hurtful to the many Japanese people who have no ill feelings towards foreigners or who have worked hard to improving the image of Japanese people abroad.
Is what the government doing now terrible? Of course. Some nation's government does something terribly stupid and short-sighted, news at 11. Never judge a people by their leader. Eight years of Bush back me up on this.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Forkball said:
Japan is xenophobic because the government is xenophobic. The government teaches this in a lot of ways. Personally from living here I think the term "Japan is xenophobic" doesn't mean a blanket statement for the people but the approach the government has taken on immigration all the way from 350 years ago when the closed the country to now..
Piper Az said:
Um... No. It's an optional program. Take the money and agree to the terms. Want to stay? Don't sign onto the program. They're not telling anyone they need to take the program, so what's the problem.
Oh noes they're offering choices to people. Let's overreact and make a big deal about it.
Forkball said:
you make a good argument and I pretty much acknoledge all you say except...
Japan is a xenophobic country, no argument about the government. The people on the other hand is a case that varies with each person due to education, personal history, etc...
It's not the people's fault for their government poilicies but the way with society there now they don't give a fuck and can choose to be as ignorant as the average American.
Monroeski said:
It is this. Somehow they get the idea that the Japan in anime is the Japan that they will be living in, or something close. Sometimes it is a self esteem issue because they don't like where they live and think Japan will be better, where they can start over (and since they watch anime, they know the culture like "experts"). Take a Japanese language class in the US, you will see alot of this.
There are people who want to to and live in Japan for other reasons, such as business ventures, they go for vacation and love it, etc, but most of the time I see someone who talks about how great japan is, it is someone from the above paragraph.
Monroeski said:
:lol
I enjoy watching anime and believe it is a wonderland but not because of anime though. I like Japan because its just fucking awesome. Japan in my opinion is the cleanest country I have every been to. Everything is ultra modern. The public transportation is excellent. NYC where I live needs to follow suit. The people there are respectful and friendly. I'm Chinese and had no problems there. I only spoke a few Japanese phrases and had no trouble getting around. Maybe I just blended in? I dunno. Everyone I ran into was uber helpful including cops when I told them I was an American. The food there is amazing. The level of customer service there is top notch wherever you go. No tipping required. There's so much cool shit there from architecture, design, technology, pop culture, etc.. Everything there is fucking ace. When I got back to NYC it made realize how everything is ass backwards here and how almost everything here in the states is half-assed. Going to Japan was definitely a life changing trip for me. I can't wait to return next year.
I don't know that the Japan in anime is always where they think they'll be living, but I think anime fans believe that anime (and Ninja Warrior) is something that every single Japanese citizen crowds around the TV for every day, and thus if they like anime they will have something in common with every other person they see.MotherFan said:
Truth is, as far as I've heard anyway, anime fans over there are considered just as big a bunch of nerds as anime fans here.
::edit::
Gantz said:
That's why I put "generally speaking" and not "all of those people." :lol
Some people have their head on straight and have either done their homework or have actually visited the place and know what it's like, and have decided that is where they want to live. There is nothing wrong with that, different strokes for different folks, etc. etc.
Most, though, and I mean the VAST majority of the people I've met that want to live there just OMG LUV BLEACH!!1!1
The anime people are thinned out dramatically in the higher stages of Japanese language classes. It's like a nerd genocide.
People who like Japan simply because of anime are going to be pretty disappointed. I've been to Akihabara, and it's cool and everything, but even as a hardcore gamer I couldn't see myself visiting that place often if I lived in Tokyo.
I personally do want to live in Japan one day and I'm working hard to achieve this goal. I know Japan is not perfect, but I really do love Japanese culture and I want to experience it in the most authentic way possible. I really do want to make a contribution to Japanese culture and hopefully help strengthen the friendship between America and Japan, even if it's in a small way.
People who like Japan simply because of anime are going to be pretty disappointed. I've been to Akihabara, and it's cool and everything, but even as a hardcore gamer I couldn't see myself visiting that place often if I lived in Tokyo.
I personally do want to live in Japan one day and I'm working hard to achieve this goal. I know Japan is not perfect, but I really do love Japanese culture and I want to experience it in the most authentic way possible. I really do want to make a contribution to Japanese culture and hopefully help strengthen the friendship between America and Japan, even if it's in a small way.
Forkball said:
It isn't that the country and its social structure doesn't have any redeeming or desirable qualities that aren't found in other cultures. There are, and of course there are people who gravitate towards it and therefore love living there. But to ignore the strong nationalistic establishment is delusional. I don't think it is hard to understand that many people would look down at it as xenophobic, as there is some truth to it. Obviously such a nationalistic sentiment isn't uniform amongst the entire population in depth and breadth, but when it comes to affecting things that matter regarding residency -- government, work, and local authority -- it is going to negatively affect foreign residents' opinion about the country.
Japan, racist?
What else is new?
Although, I live in Central Japan now so I see this kind of thing up front and center.
It's really tough when you don't know the language, OR you don't speak English, because you really are limited to those kinds of dirty, blue collar jobs.
There is such a separation between the two communities that it's not really like they live in the same world. And it appears that people who mix are generally 'out' of the Japanese community here.
Tokyo has a similar thing but I feel the walls are a lot more defined here.
What else is new?
Although, I live in Central Japan now so I see this kind of thing up front and center.
It's really tough when you don't know the language, OR you don't speak English, because you really are limited to those kinds of dirty, blue collar jobs.
There is such a separation between the two communities that it's not really like they live in the same world. And it appears that people who mix are generally 'out' of the Japanese community here.
Tokyo has a similar thing but I feel the walls are a lot more defined here.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Gantz said:
It is an awesome place as a visitor and an outsider. It is likely that you will quickly become disenchanted should you ever try to delve deeper.
kmfdmpig said:
So, what you're saying is when a government of takes a official view to ask one group of foreign nationals, whom they invited in the first place, to get out, it's OK?
So, hypothetically, if the US government singles out all the Mexican or Brazillian or British legal immigrants and asks them to take some money to pledge never to return, that's OK with you? :lol
LiveFromKyoto
Member
Forkball said:
Taken as a totality, Japan is and has always been remarkably xenophobic as a nation. They literally would not let anybody into the country for centuries. The Americans forced the door open in the 19th century and they slammed it shut again as soon as they could. The government knows it needs more bodies to stay competitive; they put together a committee to address expanding immigration a few years ago and it spent the whole time coming up with new ways to exclude foreigners. There is a deep-seated paranoia of losing or 'watering down' their culture, of sharing positions of power within it.
Japan is a part of the global culture, and of course as individuals people are interested in the rest of the world. But given that it's still the world's second largest economy, as a nation it is shockingly isolated from world affairs, and this is by policy. It's a country of 127 million, with less than a million (registered) foreigners inside.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
LiveFromKyoto said:
Japanese society, as a whole, is very xenophobic in the real meaning of the word (being afraid or disliking that which is unknown or different), this xenophobia isn't exclusively for foreigners. If you are Japanese and not rich or powerful then you will have a very rough time if you act differently than is expected of you. At least foreign nationals have the option of leaving the country, but eccentric Japanese people are stuck here and are completely screwed.
The problem is that the society here is so well defined and rigid. There is a "proper way" for everything here and I mean everything. Deviating from this "proper war" is frowned upon. On an individual basis you will find that most people can be interesting, creative and open minded, but for the most part in a group setting everyone will have their "face for society" on and will be playing the part that society expects them to play. This is why most people here seem to care so much about image and how others view them, because there is a constant feeling of being monitored whenever you are outside.
It is very strange because people can be so different in private than when they are in a group setting. It is like some magical "big brother"-like force permeates throughout the land constantly watching people. I don't think a single person that I have talked to on a personal level actually likes the way Japanese society is, but no one does anything to change it.
Anyway, this highly defined, extremely rigid and restricting social structure is very difficult to adapt to for anyone who isn't born into it. Anyone who doesn't adhere to the system and obey its rules and behave in a pre-approved manner fit for their place in society is left without a place in society and is an outsider. Being an outsider is fine as long as you are just here to visit and have lots of disposable income. Settling down here would be a much more difficult endeavor for most people born in the west who enjoy freedom.
edit: just as a disclaimer the above is merely my personal opinion as someone who has lived in and currently resides in Japan. While it may not seem like it in my post, I do like Japan a lot.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
kmfdmpig said:
First of all they are targetting a specific group. This isn't an option for all foreigners employed in Japan, it is only for Brazilians and it probably targets those who work in factories.
Second, these same people were once pretty much invited to immigrate to Japan. Now, by being presented with this option, they are being told that they aren't welcome anymore. This is only reinforced by the fact that one of the conditions is that anyone who takes the money must not seek work again in Japan. The government is pretty much telling these people, "Please go home and never come back. We will pay your airfare and for some of the expenses, but please just get out of our country." I'm sure many of these Brazilians who immigrated to Japan think of it as their home and probably don't appreciate the government telling them that no, in fact, their home is Brazil and that they are no longer welcome in Japan. Sure they are presenting it to them as an option because outright deporting them would cause an international uproar, but don't think for a second that there isn't any pressuring involved.
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