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Jihadi brides return to UK sent back by husbands preparing ISIS last stand or widowed
- Thread starter AcademicSaucer
- Start date
Honestly, I imagine that a good portion of these women have the same mindset as the Jihadis themselves. It's inconsistent to want to give them expensive Counselling but want to lock to the men.
DarthMasta
Member
That's great and all, but it's one thing to come back cause you realized you're not actually down with the murder lifestyle and not you know "I was fine with all the murder when we were winning, but now that it appears the murdering is going to happen to us, less fine"...
dripdripsplash
Member
Shittiest most confusing title I've ever read. Like it made me actively angry just thinking about how OP decided to write it out that way.
I agree. But the U.K. and EU will probably opt to punt and do nothing but tough guy posturing like they did when refugee numbers ticked up. The better we address this, the weaker ISIS becomes and the worse their message spreads.
"It was when the airstrikes started that i found out i wasn't a warrior fighting for the glory of islam but an innocent civilian."
Audioboxer
Member
I think reading the whole article is wise before commenting, but yes, it's a major concern
The women need to be treated with the same amount of caution and risk factors as the men, but you do have to look at the trends of who carries out the attacks on home soil. The recent attacker went abroad and came back.
Obviously, extensive circles of radicals have many cogs. Many attackers may be lone wolves in terms of carrying out the actual attack, but behind the scenes, others can aid in helping. Hence a shit load of arrests getting carried out right now.
I guess my shorthand remark is women can be just as guilty as men for terrorism/conspiracy. However, trends do show the actual attacks almost exclusively get carried out by the men. Aiding in/conspiracy to commit attacks or withholding information about terrorist activities are heinous crimes too. A lot of the teachings abroad will be about spreading propaganda/anti-Western hate/and trying to spread the radicalised ways of Islamic doctrine through more methods than simply bombing/killing. We're talking about children being involved here too, and goodness knows what fuckery they are indoctrinated with. Demand a child from birth hates Western values and that child will grow into an adult filled with rage, hate and resentment for their surroundings.
The women need to be treated with the same amount of caution and risk factors as the men, but you do have to look at the trends of who carries out the attacks on home soil. The recent attacker went abroad and came back.
Obviously, extensive circles of radicals have many cogs. Many attackers may be lone wolves in terms of carrying out the actual attack, but behind the scenes, others can aid in helping. Hence a shit load of arrests getting carried out right now.
I guess my shorthand remark is women can be just as guilty as men for terrorism/conspiracy. However, trends do show the actual attacks almost exclusively get carried out by the men. Aiding in/conspiracy to commit attacks or withholding information about terrorist activities are heinous crimes too. A lot of the teachings abroad will be about spreading propaganda/anti-Western hate/and trying to spread the radicalised ways of Islamic doctrine through more methods than simply bombing/killing. We're talking about children being involved here too, and goodness knows what fuckery they are indoctrinated with. Demand a child from birth hates Western values and that child will grow into an adult filled with rage, hate and resentment for their surroundings.
LostCaress
Member
ISIS is not an after school group or a football club you join. It's an army of murderers, it's an enemy of the state, it's a way of life for extremists. If you willingly go to Syria to join ISIS, then you are ISIS, whether you are using a rifle or not. Everyone should obviously be given a fair trial, but if you went there without coercion you belong in jail.
AcademicSaucer
Member
Indeed
Rest
All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
Well that's what ISIS is aiming for. Why not let ISIS supporters see what it's like.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
Unless individuals were forced into this or they are their children, fuck them. Let them stay in Syria with the caliphate they love so much. If they willingly joined with these barbarians then I hope an airstrike or a bullet gets them. They're enemies of humanity.
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
They don't sell it to you as "murder lifestyle" at all.
They pose as the "good side" and that everything the West about them is propaganda.
Of course, they are assuming a number of horrible thing like terrorists attacks, but they portray it as vengeance. It's why most of their propaganda consist in horrifics videos of western bombing or US soldiers raping women in afghanistan. The main driving force of those people is vengeance. It maybe hard to swallow, but they consider themselves to be some kind of league of justice.
I am not trying to defend those people going there, i am just taking a pragmatic stance: i don't want to help ISIS. Most of the reports we get from there says that the majority of people get there and don't find what they were promised and want to come back. If you trap them there, you'll give them more fighters.
It's the same as in any conflict. You have to deal with uncomfortable decision, like how to deradicalize and adapt those people. It's the same about the FARC in Columbia. We will surely need that after the whole ISIS is over and you'll get a whole generation brainwashed into this.
I mean, if we did that with the nazis, we can do that with ISIS members. Trials and execute the leaders, try to reintegrate the masses into normal civil society.
I'm not Muslim. Or even white or a trump supporter for that matter. A childhood friend of mine got killed in Maidugiri in a boko haram attack a year ago when he was visiting family. Wrong place, wrong time, he is gone. He along with 116 others got slaughtered for no reason. There is NO way you misunderstand what you are getting into joining this caliphate. You have to burn your passport to get in it, literally burn your bridge to go.
Yet every single story is "I was forced, it's not what I thought it was". Not everyone going is an orphan with nothing to lose. You take at face value "I'm so sorry, I won't do it again"? So yes, killing is too extreme. I get hot thinking about how my friend got killed whenever I hear about Isis or boko haram.
Prison is preferable. But half of these people are advocating no prison time at ALL, just counseling and deradicalization. Which is already being implemented in some of the Scandinavian countries. If there is no consequence for joining an armed terror group that made its own country, what do you do?
The disillusioned: those who have realized the ISIS message is not all it was claimed to be
The disturbed: those suffering from trauma akin to PTSD
The dangerous: those who have not disavowed their beliefs but pretend to have done so
They ALL deserve prison at the bare minimum and not this nonsensical notion of getting a pass with only counseling
AcademicSaucer
Member
hydrophilic attack
Member
I'm very sad to hear about your childhood friend. May he rest in peace.
Regarding the bolded, I happen to know a bit about this discussion because I'm Swedish. It's not so much that we don't want to throw some of these people into jail, as the fact that we can't. We currently don't have a law (like the UK does) which makes membership in a terrorist organization illegal. We have had people investigate whether such a law can be implemented, and the result of the investigation was probably not because of our constitution. Our freedom of association laws do not allow criminalization of joining any organization, including terrorist organizations. We do have laws against terrorist acts. We do (since recently) have laws against traveling for the sake of committing terrorist act (in Daesh or whatever). We do have laws allowing freezing of monetary transfers to terrorist organizations (though for practical reasons it can seldom be used). But being part of a terrorist organization is not illegal. People are, as we speak, looking at ways to make such a law that is in accordance with our constitution. And hopefully we will have it by this time next year. But we don't have it yet.
So the only thing we can do is prosecute people for specific acts. If we can prove someone committed terrorist acts in Daesh, they can be punished. If we can prove that they traveled to Syria to commit terrorist acts, we can prosecute them. But if it can't be proved beyond reasonable doubt that that was the intent of the trip, then they can't be prosecuted. Because we are NOT Daesh. We follow due process. So if there people who can't be prosecuted and, because of being born Swedish citizens, can't be deported, what do you do? Do you just freeze them out from society and hope that whatever surveillance they are kept under will be enough to stop them from performing terrorist acts here, while allowing their resentment at their lot in life to fester. Wouldn't it be more pragmatic, and stop more terrorist attacks in the long run, to try to rehabilitate them so that one day they can be productive members of society again?
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