Wow, the guy Jim's talking to is a real goober. Dude thinks he's Katey Couric.
Pretty sure I saw him speak American once.
Pretty sure I saw him speak American once.
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Jim Sterling v. Digital Homicide: The "Interview"
- Thread starter MattyG
- Start date
I'm pretty sure he's from Mercia.
No wait, Sussex.
No wait, it was Northumbria. Or was it?
Moon_frogger
Member
Yeah I feel bad for this guy. Really, really bad. Someone who cares about him should have told him not to do this. This is embarrassing.
I'm nearing the end, what I perceive as the biggest flaw in all of his points is the inability to separate himself from his product. When Sterling says his game is shit with nothing to it, he doesn't mean his actual coding contribution, of course Sterling knows games wouldn't function without code, that's completely absurd, he's not implying Digital Homicide literally does nothing at all and the game is made out of nothing, he just means that the end product is a bunch of shit thrown together and feels empty.
The gun sound bit was the worst offender, what the fuck is he supposed to say?
- Bad gameplay*
- Bad level design*
- Terrible narrative*
- Awful visuals*
- Worst audio work in a game all around*
+ Gun sounds are cool
0/10 Jimquisition?
*I didn't actually watch the videos or ever saw the games prior to this, so this is just an example
Is this the positive equivalent of "Too much water"?
The gun sound bit was the worst offender, what the fuck is he supposed to say?
- Bad gameplay*
- Bad level design*
- Terrible narrative*
- Awful visuals*
- Worst audio work in a game all around*
+ Gun sounds are cool
0/10 Jimquisition?
*I didn't actually watch the videos or ever saw the games prior to this, so this is just an example
Is this the positive equivalent of "Too much water"?
Yeah, I'm not saying Jim Sterling had to seek the opportunity to expand, but it's pretty obvious that this would create internet drama that would end in Jim's favor.
Soodanim
Member
Thinking about how I'd be in Jim's shoes, I think I'd spend half of my time telling him his logic is flawed and the other half telling him to not talk over me. I'd almost certainly tell him there's no point continuing if he's going to keep repeating himself and making me do the same, and I'd definitely get the hump. I still think it's impressive that Jim endured an hour and a half of that and stayed calm, even if he did keep telling himself to step back and let Rob make himself look stupid.
The website that you linked isn't what you think it is...
NinjamicWZ
Banned
I feel like I'm listening to a regular person talking to a forum post.
You uhh may want to change that url.
That's kinda amazing that jimquisition dot com leads to NSFW Japanese ero content.
Jim has to already know about this right?
struggler_guts
Member
That's kinda amazing that jimquisition dot com leads to NSFW Japanese ero content.
Jim has to already know about this right?
He is well aware and warns people so that the never miss the article.
This is unbelievable but I've sadly worked with adults with kids like this guy before. It seems mind boggling that a guy this stupid has a family and makes a living, but they do.
Jim shouldn't have done this, he got a bit too heated and didn't nail the easy to hit points. He should have just shut it down once the guy became a petulant insulting child.
Jim shouldn't have done this, he got a bit too heated and didn't nail the easy to hit points. He should have just shut it down once the guy became a petulant insulting child.
Slow down there, that would be an opinion. Digital Homicide hates opinion.
It would read more like:
+Gun sounds were made by a studio
^ That's how they want their games to be evaluated.
Patrick S.
Banned
The Mad Draklor
Member
Are you referring to the beginning of the Steam Refunds Jimquisition or something else?
Triggerhappytel
Member
Actually I believe he is from Kingston in Jamaica but he just fakes his British accent because he feels it's a bit more palatable to the common YouTube viewer.
AHA-Lambda
Member
Just listened to it; guy is an ass, is shockingly ignorant and most of his arguments make no sense. I'm amazed Jim withstands that shit for as long as he did tbh, the last 20 mins made me want to strangle the guy.
I'm from the uk, and i can speak in a (admittedly terrible) American accent, doesn't make from the US though.
That's exactly how i felt.
Holy shit. Okay, so I finally caught up with all the hubbub, and wow, this whole ordeal has been insane from the beginning. There truly appears to be something mentally wrong with this dude.
I don't know what episode it was, but it was something from a few weeks ago.
I don't know what episode it was, but it was something from a few weeks ago.
Red Liquorice
Member
Kudos to Jim for giving this dork a right of reply, but not really worth listening to imo, goes around in circles for over 2 hours.
At the end of the day, they made a fucking awful product and couldn't handle it when someone says so in a review. Rather than dig your hole even deeper, go back to the drawingboard and make a great game and stick it to your critics.
At the end of the day, they made a fucking awful product and couldn't handle it when someone says so in a review. Rather than dig your hole even deeper, go back to the drawingboard and make a great game and stick it to your critics.
dukeoflegs
Member
I'm only 15minutes in and this is a really interesting discussion. I don't really understand some of the points DH is trying to make or his rebuttals.
dukeoflegs
Member
I kind of feel sorry for the DH guy. I don't know if it's because of the bubble he lives in or what, but damn the dude just doesn't understand what is going on.
CrankyKong
Member
There is clearly something wrong with that guy.
Maybe developmentally arrested
Maybe developmentally arrested
samoscratch
Member
Oh man, I feel bad for the guy honestly.
When he urged people to not buy his game a part of me died.
I do wish people wouldn't focus on the fact that he lost his train of thought or pronounced patreon incorrectly, that can happen to anyone and are the least outrageous parts of the interview.
When he urged people to not buy his game a part of me died.
I do wish people wouldn't focus on the fact that he lost his train of thought or pronounced patreon incorrectly, that can happen to anyone and are the least outrageous parts of the interview.
ForsakenLotus
Member
The funniest part is that the Digital Homicide guy probably think he legitimately made Jim look bad and nailed the debate. He should probably look up the definition for delusional after slugs, because dude's picture would be the top 3 definitions.
CaviarMeths
Member
How, at 35 years spent on Earth, does one not understand the difference between criticizing a product and attacking the person who made that product?
Also, he seems to be under the impression that the purpose of review and criticism is to help the developer/publisher. He doesn't seem to understand that criticism is intended as a consumer's tool.
Whole thing is so surreal and bizarre though. This guy's a fucking loon and I kinda feel sorry for him. 1h15m in now, may as well finish it.
EDIT: Approaching the end now. "Don't buy my games." LOL.
Also, he seems to be under the impression that the purpose of review and criticism is to help the developer/publisher. He doesn't seem to understand that criticism is intended as a consumer's tool.
Whole thing is so surreal and bizarre though. This guy's a fucking loon and I kinda feel sorry for him. 1h15m in now, may as well finish it.
EDIT: Approaching the end now. "Don't buy my games." LOL.
Glitchesarecool
Member
So I bit the bullet and decided to keep listening. I'm a little under halfway through. Some interesting points as many people have already said.
- If someone should value their game by how much code goes into it, then goddamn are AAA titles undercharging. What a bargain!
- I can't follow his "AAA titles mean there shouldn't be indie titles" argument, much less how that equates to youtube.
- This guy is hilariously sad.
- If someone should value their game by how much code goes into it, then goddamn are AAA titles undercharging. What a bargain!
- I can't follow his "AAA titles mean there shouldn't be indie titles" argument, much less how that equates to youtube.
- This guy is hilariously sad.
GysahlGreens
Member
I died laughing
Whompa02
Member
Listened to the whole thing. The Digital Homicide guy tried really hard to break Sterling. He has a point with internet critics being pretty harsh with people creating smaller tier games, but at the same time, this is more or less practice work that the developers are selling for cash. Not something to be considered professional and sold for real money.
I did get a little bored with some of the ego flashing both sides were exhibiting throughout the interview. At the end of the day, I guess the digital homicide guy and his friend or whatever got what they wanted? Maybe? I dunno. Jm Sterling shouldn't have bothered talking with him at the end of the day though. Really just a big waste of time for all parties involved.
I did get a little bored with some of the ego flashing both sides were exhibiting throughout the interview. At the end of the day, I guess the digital homicide guy and his friend or whatever got what they wanted? Maybe? I dunno. Jm Sterling shouldn't have bothered talking with him at the end of the day though. Really just a big waste of time for all parties involved.
GysahlGreens
Member
I don't know that it was a waste.
It's interesting to know that, even when considering how many people make games, that there is the likelihood that a dev could have so little understanding of the media they are attempting to contribute to.
Putting any of their biases aside, just listening to them go back and forth opened my eyes more to the need for legitimate criticisms, and even MORE critique of small games that could potentially make it to the hands of a paying public.
It harms the developer, sure. They need the dollars. But in the long term, it hurts gaming even more to somehow pull punches in critique because the developer is small. A consumer is the smallest individual unit in the culture, and if a developer makes a poor quality game and there is the chance someone is misdirected to buy it it harms the market and the industry a tiny bit, which when extrapolated can be much worse.
If a critic's vernacular includes the word 'shit', and a game they critique, after explaining why, fits the bill, it must be called shit.
Jim: You shouldn't charge $10 on Steam for Baby's First Videogame. Put that shit on Newgrounds for free, learn to make real games while a receptive community actually helps you get better, and eventually move up to calling yourself an Indie.
DH: La la la, I can't hear you. You're saying that I shouldn't be allowed to make videogames because other people are better at it, but through reductio ad absurdum, that means nobody but triple-A should ever be allowed to make videogames. Also, you were a noob at making internet videos once but someone gave you a chance, and now you're saying that nobody should ever be allowed to make anything unless they're already an expert.
It's just a complete unwillingness to hear criticism.
Glitchesarecool
Member
Fucking hell!
The reasons lawsuits aren't happening is because Jim and other critics are protected by fair use law and common decency! Much less that there isn't even a reason for a lawsuit to start with. I'm so glad this is at the end of the whole thing because my eyes just about shot out of my skull at hearing that.
And after all of that, after all the arguing about how much Jim's first impressions cause damage to his games, to his livelihood, he goes and says "I'd rather you not buy my game."
The reasons lawsuits aren't happening is because Jim and other critics are protected by fair use law and common decency! Much less that there isn't even a reason for a lawsuit to start with. I'm so glad this is at the end of the whole thing because my eyes just about shot out of my skull at hearing that.
And after all of that, after all the arguing about how much Jim's first impressions cause damage to his games, to his livelihood, he goes and says "I'd rather you not buy my game."
EvoMaldonado
Banned
Ha that was pretty epic!
I didn't know Steam lacked a quality control program and just let any game be posted.
TakeItSlowDude
Member
This is where I disagree with Jim (and his stance on assets). There is no way this guy should be charging $10 for his games, but there should be a means for people to earn money off their work even if it is not very good. XBLIG was good for this because it allowed developers to cut their teeth and produce a lot of failures while earning a few dollars. Working for free is a route, but I do not think it is a good way to incubate new developers in the long term. Maybe Steam needs a containment store for developers like Digital Homicide, if a game is good enough by some metric it can be advanced to the main store. Developers need the freedom and the ability to make of pile a failures to learn their craft, learn workflows that are effective, and develop tools. Quality is often a product of quantity.
Ploid 3.0
Member
I kinda felt bad for the guy. I've seen streamers use their power of influence to attack other people in games, or get people banned in games by having those streamers send reports just because the guy was playing the game and made a mistake and crossed a popular streamer (the player did something simple, unaware, just playing his game, and somehow inconvenienced the streamer somehow. Sodapoppin when he played Guild Wars 2 for the first time). He sicked streamers on different people, and I started paying attention to how often he would do that, and not just in GW2.
But Jim is not a streamer, and this is not an interpersonal fued between two players in s game where one happens to be internet famous.
Digital Homicide make crappy cut and paste shit games, and Jim being a critic, not just on his own but with multiple outlets in the past did what all critics exsist for and pointed out the shit quality of their games to try and keep the consumer from wasting their money. If you have an issue with Jims style or that he put a lot of emphasis on DH out of a slew of "developers" doing the same thing, that is something you could legit criticize, and while I have no issue with it I see no problem if someone does. However the criticism is Jims reason for exsisting, same as Ebert was for movies, Rolling stone for music, etc.
The burden is not on Jim it's on DH to make a product that Jim cannot make look silly in a twenty minute video.
I have no clue what this issue has to do with anything in your post.
davey_jones_1217
Banned
This is the perfect example of 'Whoever wins, we lose.'
There is.
-> Like My Work? Donate Via PayPal
-> Hi, I'm Dev! Learning to make better games, but it takes time and hard work. Please keep me afloat on Patreon!
DH: "I don't want your audience to buy my game"
JS: "I can promise you I will tell my audience not to buy your game"
TakeItSlowDude
Member
There is.
-> Like My Work? Donate Via PayPal
-> Hi, I'm Dev! Learning to make better games, but it takes time and hard work. Please keep me afloat on Patreon!
That is an option, though I think it is has too low of a yield rate to be useful for people with little to no work behind them. I think markets with low price caps are a better way of incubating junior developers.
Right. There's no perfect solution, but the problem with what you're proposing instead means that a gamer has to spend money blindly -- that he/she probably can't get back, on something by a brand new, inexperienced developer.
In the donation/Patreon situation, at least people could get a taste of the unproven goods before they decide to permanently part with money.
For me, on a very low budget, losing a buck or two on a game that sucks still feels like a loss. I don't have the time or extra bucks to be someone's beta tester or QA coach, is how I might feel.
So let me play a game for free and then see if I feel like being a part of your climb to the top, new dev. Otherwise, I feel safer putting that buck towards something else.
Yes, I realize studios of all sizes make games I might regret buying, but there are some proven studios I feel more secure about than others.
If thatgamecompany comes out with a game I've never even heard of, well, hey, I feel confident putting money towards that out of their reputation alone... much more so than new dev who is doing little more than learn how to code with pre-made assets.
Thanks to the great times TGC has thus far given me, I would also feel more forgiving and less robbed if that purchase backfires.
Just how I see it.
I was going to post this exact thing. I feel awful for him. I mean all he's done is make a few crappy games, this doesn't make him a terrible person, but this whole thing is a car crash.