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[LCGeek]

What I've said earlier in the thread, the fact that Epic asked them to improve even more at GDC, because otherwise their consoles wouldn't be able to run it as Epic would like. Even if it seems that Microsoft is improving the hardware for UE4, from what we've been hearing.

But I still think UE4 will be scalable in order to run on Wii U ( which isn't absolutely a garbage like Wii was compared to PS360 )...this if 3rd party games will sell on the platform. So, yeah, Nintendo needs third parties, and they're strongly working with them this time.

I'm hoping epic is being practical and realizing that only pcs are going to be able to max out this engine at any time in the future. I would be happy knowing it can run most things at 1080p at 30fps solid especialyl considering what they have shown. Anymore and they are asking for another repeat of this generation.

The problem is especialyl from what other metnion what exactly considering the current state of pcs would be a next gen jump. Then comes the cost to how it affect consoles. I still believe a mid grade jump to next gen technology is a very good idea. This massive jump people are desiring belongs in the pc and only there. Console that win are never the best of the best or even close compared to what is out at the time.

Nah. At least it's not a more lateral movement like the Wii was from the Gamecube. I would love to play Nintendo games in HD with PS360 horsepower (or a little more). Sure, it's old tech, but I've been waiting for my Metroid/Zeldas/Marios with a legitimate power bump.

There is a huge fallacy in that argument. Wiiu is not competiting with either of the two because of ram and well R700 is two gens ahead of what the 360 had for gpu which is a lot better especially when you consider what there pc variants ran for this genreation. People wth R700 based tech are still able to game decently especially at 720p. Good luck now using a x1900 for certain games and getting the same performance as 4850. Short of nintendo bottlenecking this system it cannot be that bad or that low.

 

[Salvadora]

Pretty disappointed if this means a repeat of the Wii situation. E3 is next week though so we'll see for ourselves.

 

[LCGeek]

Pretty disappointed if this means a repeat of the Wii situation. E3 is next week though so we'll see for ourselves.

Why are we judging a pre launch situation and post launch situation before it happens. Name one time in videogame history where what we saw at launch basically was not bested after even a few years. Oh yeah we can it was nitnendo system and the reasons why are because no one did anything with the power given. Every major console has seen huge jumps in how devs mastered what they were given.

 

[Not a Jellyfish]

Why are we judging a pre launch situation and post launch situation before it happens. Name one time in videogame history where what we saw at launch basically was not bested after even a few years. Oh yeah we can it was nitnendo system and the reasons why are because no one did anything with the power given. Every major console has seen huge jumps in how devs mastered what they were given.

Come on now, he said we will see next week. Don't jump on the guy...sounds like you are, not to start an argument.


I feel right now the Wii-U sounds under powered, but I admit I would love to be surprised. No opinions formed here, lets see some games already!


Edit: I don't think they are disappointed but more of a wait and see approach.

 

[Salvadora]

Why are we judging a pre launch situation and post launch situation before it happens. Name one time in videogame history where what we saw at launch basically was not bested after even a few years. Oh yeah we can it was nitnendo system and the reasons why are because no one did anything with the power given. Every major console has seen huge jumps in how devs mastered what they were given.

I don't think its too much to express concern at reports that WiiU is about par with both of the HD systems. I don't really care that much about the visual jump but about 3rd party support, I don't want developers to have any excuse to not develop for it.

 

[LCGeek]

Come on now, he said we will see next week. Don't jump on the guy...sounds like you are, not to start an argument.


I feel right now the Wii-U sounds under powered, but I admit I would love to be surprised. No opinions formed here, lets see some games already!

I'm jumping because most have already said a though here that can be said about e3 tech demos don't mean dick. I don't see anything at E3 being unveiled as full or finished products. Cosidering how bad last gen games started off it's going to be equally as hard to make disticntions this time that are truly next gen. Outside of the lighting I've seen on WiiU short of really good texturing what is there for people to judge on a video.

everything is underpowered I don't think since I became a pc and arcade gamer type in the 90's I met consumers or devs who didn't want more. This never ends I only care because as a mainstream industry, enthusiast behaviors do not belong and should not be pushed on people who do not care or want to pay the cost for it.

I don't think its too much to express concern at reports that WiiU is about par with both of the HD systems. I don't really care that much about the visual jump but about 3rd party support, I don't want developers to have any excuse to not develop for it.

Same people telling me it's on par with last gen systems were dead wrong about last gens systems be it wii or the hd twins and their power against a pc. Sorry experience and knowing tech like this myself as a buyer of it helps me know this shit a lot more than gaming sites that can't make real arguments or disclose real info can. I tell anyone learn from those at b3d, hardorums, anandtech and other more tech inclines sites who won't give you garbage info because thats what you want to hear. You can voice what you like but I'm just calling out the bs of what they do and have been since this last generation started in 2k5 when this spec shit really took off and hasn't died down since.

 

[Taker666]

I'm not sure why people think that running Unreal 4 would make much difference to WiiU support.

The Gamecube missed out on a bunch of ports (or got them late so they had little chance of selling) ...and we're already seeing a bunch of PS3/360 games being denied release on Wii U (or announced as being released late).

If a dev/publisher wants a game to be released on Wii U...it will be. If they don't it won't...regardless of the engine used.

 

[StreetsAhead]

I feel right now the Wii-U sounds under powered, but I admit I would love to be surprised. No opinions formed here, lets see some games already!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p99ghcy450E

 

[Salvadora]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p99ghcy450E

This will be the next Red Steel. As in shite.

 

[orioto]

I was under the feeling that an engine can always be scaled down anyway. I'm pretty sure if UE4 isn't on WiiU, it's purely a strategic decision. I can bet it will end on some less powerfull platform at some point.

And i remember hearing some talk about the Unreal Engine having to put the emphasis on scalable things in the future to be efficient anyway.

But maybe i'm wrong.

 

[Freezie KO]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p99ghcy450E

Looks terrible. Give me back my pointer aiming.

 

[LCGeek]

I'm not sure why people think that running Unreal 4 would make much difference to WiiU support.

The Gamecube missed out on a bunch of ports (or got them late so they had little chance of selling) ...and we're already seeing a bunch of PS3/360 games being denied release on Wii U (or announced as being released late).

If a dev/publisher wants a game to be released on Wii U...it will be. If they don't it won't...regardless of the engine used.

Because development time will go down dramatically for people who don't want to take up the system from the ground up. UE4 is to supposed to be very good on top of what UE is already for getting things up and running. This about ease and access it only lessening devs coming by not having UE4.

GC games didn't come for a lot of pratical reasons. Disc spaced screwed it over more than not. In the case of a few well known titles like doom3 ram setup prevent it from doing it despite id saying that it or ps2 had graphical ability to pull off a butchered version.

Wii could not take HD twin games because it doesn't have the hardware physically in terms of design too. Outside of factor 5 I don't think there was one company that said they could get there assets on a good level from the hd side in to Wii arechitecture if they could.

 

[Not a Jellyfish]

This will be the next Red Steel. As in shite.

Pretty much, link did not impress me.

It looks like the person playing is concentrating too much on their movement, it is weird...to me they just look to focused on moving the controlling in the correct way. It takes away from the actual game to me.

I do have a "high end" PC so that might take away from my impression of the visuals of the game but the person demoing it looks to focused on their movements. It is an odd criticism I admit that but it just looks off to me...as most stage demos do.

 

[AniHawk]

Looks terrible. Give me back my pointer aiming.

looks like that sort of thing is in the game. the big ol pad aiming isn't going to work as a longterm solution. it's only nice whenever you need a minor adjustment to your aim (like in oot 3d).

 

[michaelius]

So, whats UE4 do besides prettier graphics?

Lack of multiplatform ports if your machine doesn't run it

 

[LCGeek]

Pretty much, link did not impress me.

It looks like the person playing is concentrating too much on their movement, it is weird...to me they just look to focused on moving the controlling in the correct way. It takes away from the actual game to me.

I do have a "high end" PC so that might take away from my impression of the visuals of the game but the person demoing it looks to focused on their movements. It is an odd criticism I admit that but it just looks off to me...as most stage demos do.

No you're right it's does look janky.

I only use these at slight judgements. I don't have a problem with wii and pointer setups like here it will beat DA in certain instances especially shooters where I tend to only end up using da to begin with.

 

[Freezie KO]

looks like that sort of thing is in the game. the big ol pad aiming isn't going to work as a longterm solution. it's only nice whenever you need a minor adjustment to your aim (like in oot 3d).

Looks like there's dual stick controls with using the accelerometer for minor tweaks, yeah. But until I see a Wii remote and nunchuk controlling that game, I'll stay pessimistic.

The crazy, wild movement at least was just for when he was only using the controller screen.

 

[Glass Rebel]

One thing that we have to keep in mind though is, how important is UE4 going to be next gen anyway? EA is using Frostbite, Capcom has MT Framework, Ubisoft is using Anvil/Jade/LyN, there is CryEngine, PhyreEngine, Unity... 2K and Warner Brothers will probably keep using it but from what I can gather more and more studios are using internal engines. Next-gen is gonna be interesting to say the least.

 

[DSN2K]

I say Bullshit frankly, you will see UE4 games on WiiU, they might look like shit compared to other two but the engine will scale imo.

 

[AniHawk]

Looks like there's dual stick controls with using the accelerometer for minor tweaks, yeah. But until I see a Wii remote and nunchuk controlling that game, I'll stay pessimistic.

The crazy, wild movement at least was just for when he was only using the controller screen.

oh i didn't see that they were both using the pads. i didn't even think that it was supported at last e3

 

[Freezie KO]

oh i didn't see that they were both using the pads. i didn't even think that it was supported at last e3

Although now that I think about it, does that confirm two pads working on the same system? Or were they using separate Wii U consoles?

 

[Agent Unknown]

Ugh, this bites but I guess it's not surprising since it's such a new engine. But I still feel teased by Rein's enthusiastic "Water meet fish!" comment.

 

[hammster]

Isn't he just saying "no I can't hint right now but they said it'll run UE3"?

I could see UE4/Wii U support going either way though.

 

[C4Lukins]

From what I have read, I do not think he even said that. He simply said Wii U games will not use Unreal 4. And seeing as nothing is using Unreal 4 because it is not ready for prime time yet, I would not use that comment as a definitive infinite comment. I bet 360 and PS3 could use Unreal 4 at some point, but not to its fullest. It is hard to imagine the engine itself is just so crazy as far as power/memory usage that it would not work on a non top of the line system.

Lets say someone wanted to create the original Marble Madness using Unreal 4, could the Wii U not handle that? Is the engine so heavy that it could not run on the platform because well, the engine itself requires so much power? What this says to me is that Epic is disappointed with the Wii U specs. That Epic will not be developing games for it.

 

[Salvadora]

Ugh, this bites but I guess it's not surprising since it's such a new engine. But I still feel teased by Rein's enthusiastic "Water meet fish!" comment.

The hardware has went through many revisions. I'm just hoping not all are downwards.

 

[LCGeek]

The hardware has went through many revisions. I'm just hoping not all are downwards.

Been upwards based on two sources that told me about cpu chips in the last two system. Nintendo almost gimped ram again from what I know. The cpu is not the best but I don't see how devs complain and I never comment on the gpu because no real info is known in that area that can't get devs in to trouble. Everything we get in this area will be vague ambigious comments anything specific good luck because no one has done it the two last generation on a nintendo system.

 

[Glass Rebel]

From what I have read, I do not think he even said that. He simply said Wii U games will not use Unreal 4. And seeing as nothing is using Unreal 4 because it is not ready for prime time yet, I would not use that comment as a definitive infinite comment. I bet 360 and PS3 could use Unreal 4 at some point, but not to its fullest. It is hard to imagine the engine itself is just so crazy as far as power/memory usage that it would not work on a non top of the line system.

Lets say someone wanted to create the original Marble Madness using Unreal 4, could the Wii U not handle that? Is the engine so heavy that it could not run on the platform because well, the engine itself requires so much power? What this says to me is that Epic is disappointed with the Wii U specs. That Epic will not be developing games for it.

Unless someone else is porting UE4 to Wii U nobody will develop UE4 games for Wii U.

 

[Alexios]

Well, since Geoff reads NeoGAF, I figure that at minimum we can get him to clarify if Epic very specifically ruled this out at GDC, or if he is just assuming this because Mark Rein talked about running UE3 on Wii U at GDC.

That seems pretty clear to me based on that image showing the only explanation being exactly that.

But I doubt it will even be very different to 3. I guess DX11 by default, tessellation vs normal maps etc and being capable of pushing more polys and effects based on the hardware it runs on at a given time. Unless they've also taken steps to integrate physics further BF3 style I could see UE3 games looking on par to most people if the devs spice it up on their own a little and push it further. It shouldn't even need that much, not like what the Splinter Cell games did with UE2.x adding normal maps and real time shadows etc from scratch, the engine itself is already fancy to a degree, including DX11 feature support lately I think.

I also dunno why they wouldn't make it scalable again. Current iOS devices run UE3 but clearly none of the games hold a candle to even the likes of early games like UT3. I dunno why even if WiiU is much weaker it couldn't run some version of it and be able to get downscaled ports.

From what I have read, I do not think he even said that. He simply said Wii U games will not use Unreal 4. And seeing as nothing is using Unreal 4 because it is not ready for prime time yet, I would not use that comment as a definitive infinite comment. I bet 360 and PS3 could use Unreal 4 at some point, but not to its fullest. It is hard to imagine the engine itself is just so crazy as far as power/memory usage that it would not work on a non top of the line system.

Lets say someone wanted to create the original Marble Madness using Unreal 4, could the Wii U not handle that? Is the engine so heavy that it could not run on the platform because well, the engine itself requires so much power? What this says to me is that Epic is disappointed with the Wii U specs. That Epic will not be developing games for it.

This too. But hey, whatever helps people & dave validate an opinion they've already formed based on nothing going by all the "lol at thinking it could" comments from apparent insiders who already know both what specs are in the case and how scalable UE4 is planned to be. Which it should be very much so as I'm sure Epic wants games for any platform made using their tech as you can't ever have too much money. Why wouldn't devs working on low end platforms want to use the same workflow and knowhow they use on the high end platforms and why wouldn't Epic provide that capability with their latest and greatest where possible rather than end up forcing them to shoddily port older cheaper iterations of their engine? At all that is, giving it less focus before they can even put the primary version and features out would be understandable. But it's not like the next Microsoft and Sony consoles are guaranteed hits over WiiU so anyone putting all their eggs on that basket could be making a mistake as many did with the PS360.

 

[LCGeek]

that seems pretty clear to me based on that image showing the only explanation being exactly that.

But I doubt it will even be very different to 3. I guess DX11 by default, tessellation vs normal maps etc and being capable of pushing more polys and effects based on the hardware it runs on at a given time. Unless they've also taken steps to integrate physics further BF3 style I could see UE3 games looking on par to most people if the devs spice it up on their own a little and push it further. It shouldn't even need that much, not like what the Splinter Cell games did with UE2.x adding normal maps and real time shadows etc from scratch, the engine itself is already fancy to a degree, including DX11 feature support lately I think.

I also dunno why they wouldn't make it scalable again. Current iOS devices run UE3 but clearly none of the games hold a candle to even the likes of early games like UT3. I dunno why even if WiiU is much weaker it couldn't run some version of it and be able to get downscaled ports.

Nintendo just needs to pay epic to a job and problem is solved. If it's truly not that doable at the lowend someone out there would tell us quite quickly.

 

[Lord Error]

well haven't you heard that it's the new messiah of video games? it has features like "dynamic lighting" and "particles"

The only thing you can mock there is the article itself, which was not written for the graphics experts audience in mind anyway. The engine itself does far more with those attributes than your quote implies.

 

[SmokyDave]

I'm not at all surprised. The size of the case is still the biggest clue that the hardware ain't blistering.

 

[lucius]

Did regular Wii run Unreal 3?

I owned one for close to 3 years, but didn't remember if any games ran on it

 

[AniHawk]

I'm not at all surprised. The size of the case is still the biggest clue that the hardware ain't blistering.

the size and original release date: mid-2012 as opposed to late 2012.

although it's my guess that nintendo's original plan was to make the 3ds a 2010 system and the wii u a 2011 system.

 

[Hoo-doo]

I bet Geoff doesn't clarify this one bit. He feeds on the discussion that his single-sentence tweets bring.

I bet he's currently sitting at his desk like this. Smiling.

 

[C4Lukins]

Unless someone else is porting UE4 to Wii U nobody will develop UE4 games for Wii U.

No but they may develop games for the other two systems and downport to Wii U.

Third parties in general are not going to look to Nintendo for support. You have to go to the SNES days where third parties even competed on a Nintendo console. At least when we look at "hardcore" games. No the occasional exception such as RE4 does not make this less true. Hell Turok would have to be held up as one of the top success stories for Nintendo from a third party over the past 15 years. Again this is excluding party games.

Point being, none of the big independents or third party developers are going to make a Wii U exclusive. Well not one that the majority of people who visit this site will give a shit about. But I can definitely see Unreal 4 leaking its way down to the system.

 

[Glass Rebel]

No but they may develop games for the other two systems and downport to Wii U.

Third parties in general are not going to look to Nintendo for support. You have to go to the SNES days where third parties even competed on a Nintendo console. At least when we look at "hardcore" games. No the occasional exception such as RE4 does not make this less true. Hell Turok would have to be held up as one of the top success stories for Nintendo from a third party over the past 15 years. Again this is excluding party games.

Point being, none of the big independents or third party developers are going to make a Wii U exclusive. Well not one that the majority of people who visit this site will give a shit about. But I can definitely see Unreal 4 leaking its way down to the system.

You think devs are going to port the whole engine to the system? Admittedly, I'm not that familiar with game development but that sounds like one hell of a waste of money and time.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Well there goes my Mario game with a million particle effects.

Not denying that it's disappointing the system doesn't look like it'll be a powerhouse, but like this generation the Wii U and one of the other systems will probably be my best bet a few years down the road after each console's launched.

 

[LCGeek]

I'm not at all surprised. The size of the case is still the biggest clue that the hardware ain't blistering.

Considering where the wiiu is in terms pc strength is anyone really thinking this requires 800w and decent cooling. The size really hits home but nintendo can make do with that especially with how well amd can integrate things these days.

 

[TerryWogan]

Didn't we already know this?

So people were expecting the WiiU to get a name change and for it to be re-unveiled as some sort of super powerful next-gen console? Despite what we were told at E3 last year. Despite what has been leaked subsequently. Despite the clear evidence this generation that Nintendo isn't playing the numbers game anymore. Come on guys!

 

[LCGeek]

Didn't we already know this?

So people were expecting the WiiU to get a name change and for it to be re-unveiled as some sort of super powerful next-gen console? Despite what we were told at E3 last year. Despite what has been leaked subsequently. Despite the clear evidence this generation that Nintendo isn't playing the numbers game anymore. Come on guys!

People don't let go of the past. Really on this forum most people are realistic on this subject. Like I said before you have two groups of people on the forum that believe Wiiu is going to be utter shit or what you mentioned. This need to be batted down whenever it pops up.

 

[mocolostrocolos]

Nothing we didn't knew.

What I expect on WiiU is to see the best looking UE3 games on a console, if 720/PS4 ditch UE3 from the start, of course.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Didn't we already know this?

So people were expecting the WiiU to get a name change and for it to be re-unveiled as some sort of super powerful next-gen console? Despite what we were told at E3 last year. Despite what has been leaked subsequently. Despite the clear evidence this generation that Nintendo isn't playing the numbers game anymore. Come on guys!

Eh, the leaked information seems to conflict all over the place (some sources saying it's six times stronger than the 360, some saying it's weaker than a 360) and unless this was just another leak I thought CryEngine 3 got confirmed for the Wii. It was definitely being more than just a bit hopeful to expect Unreal Engine 4 on the Wii-U when Epic was already complaining that MS/Sony's consoles weren't powerful enough for what they wanted, but at the same time given some evidence I don't feel it was too out of line to feel some sort of concession was possible.

Personally expecting the Wii-U to be dead in the middle compared to the PS3 and what PS4/720 provide. Nothing amazing, but not as bad as the Wii was in comparison to the 360/PS3 either.

 

[Liamario]

I don't think the wiiu is going to be significantly more powerful than current HD consoles. The fact that a lot of developers are trying their best to 'big it up' and still failing doesn't bode well for the specs of the system.
In any case, it's not going to worry nintendo fans too much i suspect.

 

[TerryWogan]

Eh, the leaked information seems to conflict all over the place (some sources saying it's six times stronger than the 360, some saying it's weaker than a 360) and unless this was just another leak I thought CryEngine 3 got confirmed for the Wii. It was definitely being more than just a bit hopeful to expect Unreal Engine 4 on the Wii-U when Epic was already complaining that MS/Sony's consoles weren't powerful enough for what they wanted, I don't feel it was too out of line to feel some sort of concession was possible..

Personally expecting the Wii-U to be dead in the middle compared to the PS3 and what PS4/720 provide. Nothing amazing, but not as bad as the Wii was in comparison to the 360/PS3 either.

I think you're still expecting too much. It's going to be barely more powerful than PS360, but running on more current tech and therefore smaller and cooler.

 

[MrCunningham]

Did regular Wii run Unreal 3?

I owned one for close to 3 years, but didn't remember if any games ran on it

I don't recall any Unreal 3 games for the Wii. But there were more than a few Unreal 2 powered games for it, think.

 

[michaelius]

There is a huge fallacy in that argument. Wiiu is not competiting with either of the two because of ram and well R700 is two gens ahead of what the 360 had for gpu which is a lot better especially when you consider what there pc variants ran for this genreation. People wth R700 based tech are still able to game decently especially at 720p. Good luck now using a x1900 for certain games and getting the same performance as 4850. Short of nintendo bottlenecking this system it cannot be that bad or that low.

I think you shoudn't speak about fallacy when you don't understand difference beetween architecture and actual performance of card.

4850 isn't only card using R700 architecture and cards like 43xx or 45xx are nowhere near running modern games decently.

So knowing Wii U is using R700 is meaningless when you don't know how many sp they decided to include.

 

[Diprosalic]

i laugh at the multiple "nintendo still doesn't get it" posts. nintendo can't afford throwing away billions of dollars like sony and microsoft did with the ps360. they went with affordable hardware and dominated. how anyone can think that they now will release anything other that a modern built 360 baffles my mind.

 

[Woffls]

Or maybe UE4 isn't working on Wii U yet? Even if it was working now, they wouldn't want to show it because at the moment they're concerned about showing people the absolute best that UE4 can offer.

If any potential Wii U version of the engine was shown, Epic would be worried about people looking at it and thinking "huh, that's not as good as I was expecting".

 

[2+2=5]

Is it really that shocking?

Wiiu comparable to ps360 + ps360 don't run ue4 = wiiu doesn't run ue4

Spoiler

expecting nickname quote

 

[mclem]

If true, this is interesting. It highlights one thing I've been toying with in the back of my mind:

Are software 'platforms' now more important than hardware platforms? Certainly I can see an argument that UE3's accessibility was a big driver of development for the HD platforms, but it was still built to the specs that were known and planned for the followup consoles. Compare and contrast with UE4; it appears that that's being built *first*, and then pushing console manufacturers to build their systems to that *spec*. That's a very different approach to development, and a brave one; I'm not convinced it's healthy for the industry, but I'll wait and see.

The question I have, though, is for the average third party, what's the motivation to develop for UE4 over UE3? At the moment I don't see it - but it's easy to say that given that currently, there's no hardware that supports it.

One potential risk with that plan for Epic is that it's dependent on the hardware platforms that buy into the UE4 spec having a sufficiently large market to provoke development on that engine. That's how they'll convince the average third party to buy into the new version, but at the moment the hardware developers hold the cards, and need to look closely at what's best for them - embracing UE4 and running the risk of being the only one of the three who does so, with an accordingly reduced install base and therefore market, or dialling back the spec somewhat and risking being ignored by devs who do go all-in on UE4's power.

On top of that, if we do accept the idea of Unreal-as-a-platform - take a look at the Dyack lawsuit. Whether valid or not, that's a disgruntled third party using that platform. It's a fairly isolated case, but it's something Epic will have to be wary of in the future - what they don't want is to become 1990's era Nintendo when it comes to handling third parties, because that's leaving things open for a competitor to swoop in and entice them away.


... but that's all 'if true'. Those comments were a while back.