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[Yagharek]

To me it wasn't important that Wii didn't run UE3, that's why I just don't care if WiiU doesn't run UE4.

The obsession about visuals seems to be endless here at Gaf...

Might not matter to you, will matter to third parties.

I think both these viewpoints are valid.

As with Mlatador, I'm not personally fussed with visuals. If they are tip-top, great. If they are slightly better than PS3/360, so be it.

I appreciate third parties who invest heavily in UE4 or equivalent tech may not be impressed, but for the most part, those sorts of developers weren't making a lot of the games that appealed to me this gen.

Ideally, Wii U will be capable of supporting as much of the new round of engines as possible. But I'm probably in the group that can deal with it if it isnt capable.

 

[jonno394]

Am I the only one who read the tweet as :

Question - "Can you hint if the wii u will be able to run Unreal Engine 4"

Answer - "No (as in I can't hint), at GDC etc etc"

 

[Hot Coldman]

Gaf has taught you nothing these topics never end the bullshit just transforms and evolves.

Your tag is unbefitting of you.

 

[Haunted]

Of note, really..... because companies making mid grade pop crap need the high end especially with those b teams. With a line like that you make people forget about red steel 1&2.

These companies aren't putting any effort I'm just saying if you going that route why make it harder.

Old middleware is abadoned when it's needed to. UE2 was an awful engine as far as new techs were concerned, even for its time. No pixel shaders, no good physics, no dynamic lighting, nothing that others had done for years. It worked for UT and that's about it, anyone who used it and wanted such functions had to create them from scratch, as seen in the likes of Splinter Cell games. That's not the case at all with UE3 as even compared to DX11 features (some of which can be added on with relatively little effort) it's not that far behind and still has many good features that more powerful systems could also improve on with better quality rendering, IQ, and frame rate enough for the games to look, er, shiny enough.

I agree that the middleware transition comparison from UE2 -> UE3 and UE3 ->UE4 is faulty because UE2 never was the dominant middleware of its generation (that was Renderware). Sadly, we don't know how prevalent Renderware development would have been in this generation because EA bought it, necessitating most developers to search out a new solution - a major reason why UE3 came to dominate this generation like it did.

That said, I actually don't know how viable UE3 development is when your studio is gearing up for UE4. New tools, new pipelines, a new way to work - can these things actually scale down to UE3? Will development be a completely separate beast or are many of the tools re-usable? Who will work on these purported UE3 versions of multiplatform games when the brightest talent in the industry has moved on to UE4?

If I answer these questions in my head, it doesn't paint a pretty picture for Wii U third party support. Then again, I'm not the most optimistic kind of guy when it comes to these things in the first place.

 

[GhostTrick]

Am I the only one who read the tweet as :

Question - "Can you hint if the wii u will be able to run Unreal Engine 4"

Answer - "No (as in I can't hint), at GDC etc etc"

I read the same thing too.
And at GDC Epic was still under NDA. NDA about their engine and NDA about Wii U.

 

[Jackson]

Nintendo's own engine(Nintendoware) shits all over UE3. You'd be dumb to not use it over UE3 when making exclusive WiiU games.

Nintendoware is Nintendo's trump card in securing UE4 day1.

Just an FYI -- Nintendo doesn't license its engines to 3rd parties.

 

[wsippel]

The problem here (and with many Twitter "news" in general) is that we usually get second hand information, compressed to 140 characters or less. We neither know the actual question nor the exact answer.

 

[mclem]

To me it wasn't important that Wii didn't run UE3, that's why I just don't care if WiiU doesn't run UE4.

The obsession about visuals seems to be endless here at Gaf...

My interest in UE4 on Wii U isn't about the visuals as much as it is the reflection on convenience of third-party support - but that is all dependent on it becoming the middleware solution of choice, and I think there's big question marks over that, at least right now; I do think far too many people are taking that as a given.

 

[Alexios]

That said, I actually don't know how viable UE3 development is when your studio is gearing up for UE4. New tools, new pipelines, a new way to work - can these things actually scale down to UE3? Will development be completely separate? Who will work on these purported UE3 versions of multiplatform games when the brightest talent in the industry has moved on to UE4?

Are they even required this time or is development actually quite similar to 3, ie, replace normal mapping with tessellation (which doesn't necessarily change the way the artists work meaningfully) then do the same for a few more features, then crank things like AO filtering and texture resolutions to the max, and you're basically good to go? And if they're required, are publishers actually doing that or are they waiting to see before committing to potential losses of m(b?)illions if things turn out similarly to this gen?

 

[LCGeek]

Your tag is unbefitting of you.

I have to clarify this current tag which changed me from Formerly Hatorade to Formerly Sane was because of the ot, 2012, and me posting while I was shitblazed and insane for a month.

other than a few fireworks here or there I try not to cause too much trouble. I do call like it is when I can.

I agree that the middleware transition comparison from UE2 -> UE3 and UE3 ->UE4 is faulty because UE2 never was the dominant middleware of its generation (that was Renderware). Sadly, we don't know how prevalent Renderware development would have been in this generation because EA bought it, necessitating most developers to search out a new solution - a major reason why UE3 came to dominate this generation like it did.

That said, I actually don't know how viable UE3 development is when your studio is gearing up for UE4. New tools, new pipelines, a new way to work - can these things actually scale down to UE3? Will development be a completely separate beast or are many of the tools re-usable? Who will work on these purported UE3 versions of multiplatform games when the brightest talent in the industry has moved on to UE4?

If I answer these questions in my head, it doesn't paint a pretty picture for Wii U third party support. Then again, I'm not the most optimistic kind of guy when it comes to these things in the first place.

I agree it was never dominant just was using UE2 and UE3 to show how people massively support the damn thing as a whole. There are uses especially in the casual culture if devs can't leverage a more high grade version of UE3 tweaked for Wii nintendo really needs to nip this issue in the bud even more. Titles that aren't big budget won't need UE4 automatically. I'd love UE4 but I'm not expecting it. Nintendo needs to take something popular get involved with the company and pull what they did with rare or retro on certain big name titles.

The studio isn't the problem. Big studios aren't going to be dealing with WiiU most likely, if the lesser studios are why give them something high grade for a project that really isn't and isn't intend to be.

Lets not mention EA, renderware and criterion bullshit it makes me boil we lost 2 of the greastest racing devs to the bottom feeding conglomerates. Bizzare to activision and criterion to EA.

 

[wsippel]

Nintendo doesn't license its engines to 3rd parties.

Then what's NintendoWare?

 

[DragonSworne]

Nintendo doesn't license its engines to 3rd parties.

It comes with the WiiU SDK... So yea they do.

You obviously haven't been paying attention to Nintedo's efforts in getting middleware out to all. Having their own engine available is a big part of that effort.

 

[radioheadrule83]

The content of the tweet is quite clear, he's been told it won't run it. As one Nintendo fan to another, get used to the idea, because he's almost certainly right imo.

I love that from this point, a sort of anti-hype has been generated where we now have things like Busty suggesting an Arkham City port will be demonstrated at Nintendo's conference and it will look worse than PS3/360 versions!

Such dampening of expectations might actually be good for Nintendo ahead of Tuesday, it'll make people easier to shock / impress.

 

[wsippel]

It comes with the WiiU SDK... So yea they do.

You obviously haven't been paying attention to Nintedo's efforts in getting middleware out to all. Having their own engine available is a big part of that effort.

You do realize Jackson is one of the heads of 5th Cell? He knows what he's talking about...

 

[Auto_aim1]

Hm... I guess the thing I always assume is that MS and Sony won't fuck up completely by skimping on power themselves and letting Wii U hover in a similar power range, enabling multiplatform development.

If Epic fails to convince MS/Sony to have that significant leap in prowess people expect, and if they have to scale down UE4 for consoles as a result (similar to how Crytek scaled down CryEngine to actually work on PS360 instead of PCs only), that might be Nintendo's way to get a piece of that multiplatform action.

The thing is, even if the Wii U is based on 2009 tech, it won't be embarrassingly behind the Xbox 3/PS4. If the next gen systems from MS/Sony are in the $450 range, then I think the Wii U can compete unless they take a big loss. Nintendo can't really do much here other than making sure their system sells a lot.

If Nintendo hadn't messed up the Wii U reveal last year, people wouldn't be firing blanks in the air. Let's hope we get some concrete info on the system at E3 next month.

 

[Busty]

Do you think there will be meltdowns over the graphical capability of WiiU?

People have melted down over less as E3.

*shrugs shoulders*

 

[Jackson]

It comes with the WiiU SDK... So yea they do.

You obviously haven't been paying attention to Nintedo's efforts in getting middleware out to all. Having their own engine available is a big part of that effort.

Lol. Ok.

 

[Hot Coldman]

It comes with the WiiU SDK... So yea they do.

You obviously haven't been paying attention to Nintedo's efforts in getting middleware out to all. Having their own engine available is a big part of that effort.

You're talking to the guy who made Scribblenauts, he knows what he's talking about.

 

[Donnie]

Yes. Yes I do.

I don't mean that it's going to look like a Mega Drive game next to the PS360 versions I just think that GAF will be awash with screenshot comparisons between the various versions and the WiiU port will be left wanting.

It may just be small things such as textures here and there or frame rates but I think the WiiU version will trail the other platforms. Whether it's the hardware or the fact the developers are working with the WiiU for the first time I cannot say.

Just my opinion. Based on nothing.



That's the spirit.

Based on nothing but wishful thinking obviously.

PS3/360 are DX9 compliant hardware with 512MB RAM. WiiU is DX10.1/DX11 compliant, more powerful and has 1.5-2GB of RAM. But given no info about the game you're going to assume it'll look better on PS3/360?..

 

[Haunted]

Are they even required this time or is development actually quite similar to 3, ie, replace normal mapping with tessellation and you're basically good to go? And if they're required, are publishers actually doing that already or are they waiting to see what happens this time before committing to a potential loss of millions?

I simply can't imagine them (them being the big publishers and A-tier development teams) sticking to UE3 for the next generation.

Again, barring MS and Sony fucking up and not listening to Epic plead for more power, a new generation will see a transition in middleware and development tools.

 

[Horse Armour]

so those wii u tech demos nintendo showed last year could be fakes then?

Didn't an insider on GAF say they were made by Epic?

 

[shinobi602]

Am I the only one who read the tweet as :

Question - "Can you hint if the wii u will be able to run Unreal Engine 4"

Answer - "No (as in I can't hint), at GDC etc etc"

Probably. Don't know how you can gather that from the tweet. Simple question, simple answer.

 

[Tildom]

I don't remember the thirds making a lot of multiplatform games for GameCube, so I never believed the excuse of lack of Wii's horsepower they gave.

A couple of weeks ago we read that the new game of Bungie will not be in ANY Nintendo console. Why?

That's because I don't care if Wii U can run UE4 or not, I'll not buy it for third party games. I buy Nintendo consoles because of Nintendo games.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Nintendo better hope Cryengine becomes the prevalent middleware of the next generation or the third party support from major publishers will be abysmal. Again.

This is how people should be looking at this debate rather than how powerful the system will be. I'd almost never buy a 3rd party game on the Wii U if there was a better version on a competing console or PC, but if the system still at least supported roughly the same sort of games and audience the competition had it'd drum up enough interested from studios to put more effort into interesting exclusives for the system instead of more Imagine Babbies stuff.

Thinking something along the lines of Capcom releasing a few exclusive RE's on the GCN (even if they only remained exclusive for a few years) despite that system being a distant third from the PS2/XBox while the Wii got a few half-arsed ports and rail-shooters despite being a vastly more popular system. I don't care about playing a UE4 game on the Wii U, but I do care if that support leads to companies to make some legitimately cool stuff with the controller (I don't exactly see how the tablet will lead to the same bland waggle party fests the Wii controller quickly did).

Either way next week is going to be interesting, to say the least.

 

[Alexios]

You're not even answering my questions at this point. Or only answering the parts that work for you. Again, you may be right. But I'd say it's too early to tell at this point, and the constant comparisons to UE2 vs 3 are completely off the mark, imo. Not to mention as someone said earlier if someone wants to make marble madness but wants to use UE4 for it that can probably be done on any platform, just turn off the switches to the more intensive features for the lower end platforms, even if Epic doesn't provide an official dev kit for that particular system, as long as porting isn't a horrible process (which may not be, I don't think Wii U had an official UE3 dev kit version by the time the Darksiders devs ported their game either, but it seems the architecture didn't cause them problems, it's probably not radically different to a PC). Which ties into my question about the developers having to do any meaningful restructuring even if they do licence UE4, similar to what they did for UE2 vs 3, or if it's so similar that they can basically have UE3+looks on a low end platform and UE4-looks (even if not to the max potential) on a high end platform all made on the same kit, whether that's a souped up UE3 or a potentially held back and tweaked UE4.

 

[NBtoaster]

Just to let you guys know, you'd be stupid to use UE3 on WiiU for anything besides porting current gen games.

Nintendo's own engine(Nintendoware) shits all over UE3. You'd be dumb to not use it over UE3 when making exclusive WiiU games.

Nintendoware is Nintendo's trump card in securing UE4 day1.

What about "Nintendoware" makes it better than UE3?

 

[Haunted]

It comes with the WiiU SDK... So yea they do.

You obviously haven't been paying attention to Nintedo's efforts in getting middleware out to all. Having their own engine available is a big part of that effort.

rofl

Not realising who you're talking to - a classic GAF fuckup.

 

[jonno394]

Probably. Don't know how you can gather that from the tweet. Simple question, simple answer.

But the qeustion was "Can you hint....." not "Can unreal engine 4 run on the wii u"; clutching at straws

 

[maquiladora]

Geoff needs to post ITT.

 

[JGS]

Isn't this the same engine Epic is saying the other guys can't run either so they're pushing them to make the system better?

If so, then what's the controversy?

 

[radioheadrule83]

I simply can't imagine them (them being the big publishers and A-tier development teams) sticking to UE3 for the next generation.

Again, barring MS and Sony fucking up and not listening to Epic plead for more power, a new generation will see a new transition in middleware and development tools.

Maybe. I think it depends. As has been pointed out UE2 was severely lacking when compared with UE3, Ken Levine and co worked some magic with it, but it made a lot of sense to license UE3 for multiplatform projects thereafter. UE4 needs to yield a significant enough benefit over UE3 that people will upgrade... and a question on my mind is, will Epic continue to license UE3? Will it be significantly cheaper? Because those are the kind of factors that will influence developers.

Of course, when the demo hits (is it this Friday?) - we may all be blown away, and if we are, I suspect developers will want to add millions of embers to everything to the point its the new next gen brown.

 

[LCGeek]

Based on nothing but wishful thinking obviously.

PS3/360 are DX9 compliant hardware with 512MB RAM. WiiU is DX10.1/DX11 compliant, more powerful and has 1.5-2GB of RAM. But given no info about the game you're going to assume it'll look better on PS3/360?..

Facts like those don't work on console gamers especially ones in these topics. They have been told and can even google article big sites have made on DX itself but hey they know better than everyone else with half a brain or even ms who have their own articles at the DX site.

 

[wsippel]

What about "Nintendoware" makes it better than UE3?

Nothing at this point, as there seems to be no Wii U version (yet).

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

You do realize Jackson is one of the heads of 5th Cell? He knows what he's talking about...

Developers and the mainstream media crumble before the unquestionable credibility of internet "sources".

 

[mclem]

It comes with the WiiU SDK... So yea they do.

You obviously haven't been paying attention to Nintedo's efforts in getting middleware out to all. Having their own engine available is a big part of that effort.

I think you're conflating the various smaller bits of third party middleware Nintendo has licensed on behalf of their licensees - of which the most notable is probably Havok - with a fully-featured engine.

Nintendo's deal is *excellent* and a wonderful boon to third parties, but it's not an entire engine. Although that does raise an interesting question as to whether there's any *more* announcements along similar lines on the cards.

 

[maquiladora]

But the qeustion was "Can you hint....." not "Can unreal engine 4 run on the wii u"; clutching at straws

"Mike Capps said Wii-U will be Unreal Engine 3"

 

[Haunted]

You're not even answering my questions at this point. Or only answering the parts that works for you. Again, you may be right. But I'd say it's early to tell at this point, and the constant comparisons to UE2 vs 3 are completely off the mark.

If you're referring to my posts, I'm sorry if I came across at dismissive or something, that was totally not my intention! I can't answer your technical questions about normal mapping or tesselation and how these differ from UE3 to UE4 - but I did try to answer your second part (whether third parties will adopt UE4 quickly or rather take a wait and see approach) in my own way by citing historical precedent - a new generation comes with a leap in power that necessitates updated development tools and new middleware.

Not to mention as someone said earlier if someone wants to make marble madness but wants to use UE4 for it that can probably be done on any platform, just turn off the switches to the more intensive features for the lower end platforms, even if Epic doesn't provide an official dev kit for that particular system, as long as porting isn't a horrible process (which may not be, I don't think Wii U had an official UE3 dev kit version by the time the Darksiders devs ported their game either). Which ties into my question about the developers having to do any meaningful restructuring even if they do licence UE4, similar to what they did for UE2 vs 3, or if it's so similar that they can basically have UE3-looks on a low end platform and UE4-looks (even if not to the max potential) on a high end platform all made on the same kit.

Yes, as I said before, my assumptions are all based on the premise that this would not be so easily possible, making multiplatform titles made by the same team very time-consuming and work-intensive (i.e. undesirable).

And I don't directly answer your questions not because I want to ignore or dismiss them, but simply because I don't know the answers. >_> In that sense we agree that it's too early to tell for sure - this is all just speculation.


edit: thinking about this more: even if we were to get UE3 looking multiplats on Nintendo and cutting edge (well, relatively) UE4 looking games on the Orbis/Durango, that would still be kinda bad for Nintendo in the long run - look at what the perception of always getting the worse version of a multiplat release has done for PS3 third party sales this generation. 360 versions almost always outsell them, and if Epic themselves are to be believed (who knows what's real and what's marketing speak now) the difference between UE4 and UE3 looking games would be fairly hefty compared to the rather minute differences between PS360 multiplats.

 

[Refreshment.01]

And the surprise is... exactly what? Common sense dictated that it won't run in WiiU or if it did not with all of it's feature set.

Only the most radical dreamers or the blind thought that it would.

 

[shinobi602]

But the qeustion was "Can you hint....." not "Can unreal engine 4 run on the wii u"; clutching at straws

Lol. Doesn't matter, Mike Capps apparently very clearly said "Wii U will be UE3". Can't get much clearer than that.

If it did run UE4, he would've said something like "We're currently working with Wii U hardware and testing blah blah blah" etc.

 

[Donnie]

Just an FYI -- Nintendo doesn't license its engines to 3rd parties.

What's NintendoWare then?

 

[GhostTrick]

"Mike Capps said Wii-U will be Unreal Engine 3"

"at GDC"

May I recall you that at GDC, no details were shared about UE4 because of NDA ?

 

[rpmurphy]

Lol. Doesn't matter, Mike Capps apparently very clearly said "Wii U will be UE3". Can't get much clearer than that.

If it did run UE4, he would've said something like "We're currently working with Wii U hardware and testing blah blah blah" etc.

Is that what Mike Capps said verbatim?

 

[shinobi602]

Is that what Mike Capps said verbatim?

Apparently, according to Geoff.

 

[Haunted]

Thinking about interactive tech demos Geoff mentions, I'm reminded of how much I love tech demos that (hopefully) impress.

Dinosaurs, mouse traps, walking Marios, ducks in a bathtub. Love it.

 

[LCGeek]

Thinking about interactive tech demos Geoff mentions, I'm reminded of how much I love tech demos that (hopefully) impress.

Dinosaurs, mouse traps, walking Marios, ducks in a bathtub. Love it.

We are alike. Always enjoyed them since the dawn of the 3d era. Yes a lot are bs but the ones that have been exceed made it a thrill to see them be exceed in the ways they were.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Even if there is a chance that UE4 eventually works on Wii U, this situation is such a perfect candidate for assuming the worst until proven otherwise.

 

[rpmurphy]

Apparently, according to Geoff.

Isn't it kinda hard to tell from the tweet if Mike actually said that word for word as opposed paraphrasing, especially since he didn't quote? Does Geoff means that Wii U does not have the hardware to run UE4 like the question asked, or that there are no announced plans from Epic for UE4 support for Wii U and that at the moment only UE3 is available?

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

"at GDC"

May I recall you that at GDC, no details were shared about UE4 because of NDA ?

But we already know what hardware it runs on. Even at the high end of Wii U rumors, it's not even close.

 

[Pociask]

Somewhat of a bummer if true, since it shows that all that talk about going after the core gamer was just so much talk. But, I will say 1) this is hearsay based on a GDC comment, so things could have changed, and 2) Epic also said that Wii would be Unreal 2. And then IIRC some other developers hacked together a version of UE3 that ran on the Wii.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

"who needs ue4 anyway???"