I haven't read the whole thread, but has he played any games on the final version of either one? Seems like the 'premature' tag is pretty accurate otherwise.akachan ningen said:played out meme is played out.
I haven't read the whole thread, but has he played any games on the final version of either one? Seems like the 'premature' tag is pretty accurate otherwise.akachan ningen said:played out meme is played out.
Galvanise_ said:I mean for both casual and core on the same device. Kinect doesn't have anything 'core' yet, so I meant that in the one motion control solution, Move has more of both bases covered at this point.
Chrange said:I haven't read the whole thread, but has he played any games on the final version of either one? Seems like the 'premature' tag is pretty accurate otherwise.
OldJadedGamer said:Move doesn't cover the casual as it's $400 before tax just to get it in your door. That's not a very casual price point. And that is for only one wand (many commercials/ads current are always showing two). What the Move is good and and what is doing well right now is grabbing the current PS3 audience looking for something new to add to their current system.
ralexand said:It truly is. You're talking about a multi-joint skeletal tracking system without the glow markers all in a $150 package.
onipex said:btw I can't believe people in this thread are actually excited for games that are getting motion patches. I will be excited about new games built around these devices.
Really? It sures didn't grab me. When they make a game on par with some of the best PS3 titles, but that can only be played with the Move, please wake me up. I have zero interest in Move as an 'alternate' control method over DS3.OldJadedGamer said:What the Move is good and and what is doing well right now is grabbing the current PS3 audience looking for something new to add to their current system.
fortified_concept said:If there's one reason for me to be the least bit excited about Move is the motion patches on core games or new core games that aren't Move-centric but will still use it since Move due to its accuracy is as close as a console controller can be to a KB/M solution. The problem and the reason I'm still not convinced yet is that apparently they're dumbing down that solution not to give an unfair advantage to people with Move (Killzone 3 obviously does that) which btw fucking sucks.
Bullshit!OldJadedGamer said:What the Move is good and and what is doing well right now is grabbing the current PS3 audience looking for something new to add to their current system.
krypt0nian said:Kinect to me is still Milo to me. Mostly smoke and mirrors.
krypt0nian said:Kinect to me is still Milo to me. Mostly smoke and mirrors.
Down the road who knows.
Move came to fruition for me with TTP's excellent vids over on iWaggle. He is a one man sales force.
TheExecutive said:I poop myself a little when I think of The Show and all the possibilities.
cakefoo said:When you say "the best" try to actually showcase a good dancer, not just some dude who's too embarrassed to move:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxLBIcFnwvY#t=20s
RedStep said:I'm keeping out of this strange conversation (mostly), but this is a bizarre comment. We know exactly what Kinect is and what it can do. How can Kinect Sports, etc. be "smoke and mirrors"? Are you saying that it's just pretending to track the player?
People are so quick to judge. The lag is based of the games really. There are some Move games that reacted smoothly and then there is Tiger Woods Move Golf game that lags. It's up to the developers to get it right.RavenFox said:What lag? TTP's review has put that BS to rest.
mujun said:Move is delivering for sure. Pity is it's delivering on something that in many ways the Wii has already delivered on.
Kinect has a long way to go before it delivers on many of the things it promised. Still it has a potential that the Move doesn't.
distrbnce said:Weird recurring sentiment in this thread:
1. Buttonless gaming is just the most innovative thing (though it's been tried and sucks)
2. Buttonless gaming offers more potential (though there isn't any evidence to that effect)
...don't cut off my hands until you can read my mind...
fortified_concept said:Agreed. I'd like to know how people are figuring out there's potential. Are there examples or ideas about how this potential can be harnessed on Kinect?
And can someone explain to me how a buttonless control solution can have so much potential (which implies there are much more stuff hidden under the hood that haven't been realized yet) when it's the most barebones and most limited of all control methods while more complex control methods that give developers many more control options don't have so much potential?
fortified_concept said:Agreed. I'd like to know how people are figuring out there's potential. Are there examples or ideas about how this potential can be harnessed on Kinect?
Clear said:Seriously guys, if the way that MS are pushing a game with as broken a basic control concept as Joyride front-and-center doesn't clue you in to how limited Kinect is... nothing will.
Kinect is for party and exercise games. That's all its ever going to be truly good at, because for EVERYTHING ELSE its an inferior substitute to conventional input devices.
If you were using a controller and Kinect, then it would be like using a Dualshock and a PSEye, no?Alx said:One of the other good things of kinect, is that it doesn't prevent you from using a regular controller (or a wand controller, either). When you're using a wiimote or a move wand, you can't use a regular controller at the same time. The controller-free part of kinect makes it less intrusive, you can use it without changing your gaming habits.
Sony mentioned they plan to sell 3 million Move units. I think it's a pretty a low number, so I think they were refering to current fiscal year only.[Nintex] said:I'm not sure what 'visions' they had but both suck in different ways.
Kinect doesn't work for shit but who cares, right Don? This shit will sell millions with games like Dance Central. It's too early to tell if it catches on beyond one or two games, that depends on the core games they can get working with it... I wouldn't count on any. Move works, the technology seems great but there's no hype or buzz surrounding it at all. The fact that it looks like a Wii Remote and ships with Sports Champions won't help much. Sony seems to position it as an add-on as well, while Microsoft sees Kinect as a new system. People were drugged up on Wii Sports in 2006, it's 2010 now dancing games are the new hotness.
To sum it up, Kinect didn't met MS's tech vision but will meet their sales vision and gives them some time to think about their next step. Move met Sony's tech vision but won't meet their sales vision.
But after 4 years of shitty motion control games and 'potential' I can honestly say that whoever wins, we lose.
My Move controller just went up:lolcakefoo said:When you say "the best" try to actually showcase a good dancer, not just some dude who's too embarrassed to move:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxLBIcFnwvY#t=20s
yurinka said:If you were using a controller and Kinect, then it would be like using a Dualshock and a PSEye, no?
yurinka said:I think MS doesn't want to mix controller + Kinect to avoid that and to focus the attention in full body 3D tracking that is the device innovated.
Alx said:They're obviously focusing on the full body tracking since that's the most specific and impressive feature of kinect. It doesn't mean that's all they'll do in the future.
yurinka said:Sony mentioned they plan to sell 3 million Move units. I think it's a pretty a low number, so I think they were refering to current fiscal year only.
Can you go into more detail why Kinect just suck butt for you? I have no real sentiments towards wither Move or Kinect, I am really just want to hear your opinions.Dacvak said:Kinect sucked all-around. One of the least fun gaming experiences at PAX. Move was pretty solid, but some of the software was rather sketchy and gimmicky, which is to be expected.
But, God, I did NOT expect Kinect to be so revolting. It's actually terrible.
Man said:New video.
The Kinect at it's very best as in just the raw data. And it's all over the place.
http://n4g.com/news/598739/gametrailers-kinect-physics-demo-not-impressive
REMEMBER CITADEL said:People can't seem to wrap their heads around the concept of the whole launch line-up being specifically tailored to attract new, different customers. Microsoft obviously didn't want core/violent titles there as the Xbox brand already suffers from the shooter box status in many people's eyes. It couldn't have been that hard to tack some Kinect functionality onto Halo Reach or Black Ops, but it won't even be in Fable III at launch. Changing perception and being careful not to scare away more casual audiences is what it's all about.
Hybrid stuff is coming later, people. Attracting you, guys, isn't the primary goal at this moment.
SolidusDave said:Doesn't Kinect need something like 15% of the total 360 CPU power? I guess they can include some extra Kinect modes but if they don't want to gimp their own games, Kinect has no place in "normal" core games.
Man said:New video.
The Kinect at it's very best as in just the raw data. And it's all over the place.
http://n4g.com/news/598739/gametrailers-kinect-physics-demo-not-impressive
Hip Hop gamer showed gameplay and looks like it works really wellAlx said:No, because the PSEye can't do depth perception and reliable body tracking.
It's a camera with mics. It's a device that just captures video (+ 320x240 depth) and audio. Depth info helps with body tracking and light conditions issues, a lot harder to do with a 2D camera.Alx said:They're obviously focusing on the full body tracking since that's the most specific and impressive feature of kinect. It doesn't mean that's all they'll do in the future.
SolidusDave said:Doesn't Kinect need something like 15% of the total 360 CPU power? I guess they can include some extra Kinect modes but if they don't want to gimp their own games, Kinect has no place in "normal" core games.
Alx said:It's all over the place because this software is obviously meant to track separate people, and only that. As soon as they intertwine their bodies, or hold objects, the base model-fitting algorithm is lost. When each player is respecting the basic hypothesis, the tracking is rather good.
Tracking more complex situations would require a specific algorithm.
REMEMBER CITADEL said:People can't seem to wrap their heads around the concept of the whole launch line-up being specifically tailored to attract new, different customers. Microsoft obviously didn't want core/violent titles there as the Xbox brand already suffers from the shooter box status in many people's eyes. It couldn't have been that hard to tack some Kinect functionality onto Halo Reach or Black Ops, but it won't even be in Fable III at launch. Changing perception and being careful not to scare away more casual audiences is what it's all about.
Hybrid stuff is coming later, people. Attracting you, guys, isn't the primary goal at this moment.
yurinka said:Hip Hop gamer showed gameplay and looks like it works really well
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16fRHuaVzNk
It's a camera with mics. It's a device that just captures video (+depth) and audio. Depth info helps with body tracking and light conditions issues, a lot harder to do with a 2D camera.
All the other stuff is just software that can be done with any decent camera or mics.
cgcg said::lol :lol That's why the sitting on a couch issue will probably never going to be resolved.
...and no, waving your arm sitting down on a chair while only navigating a dashboard is not resolving the issue. You'd be stupid to think otherwise.
fortified_concept said:OK got it, Microsoft thought that less game support is better. They're obviously morons according to your theory.
And btw all I'm hearing is excuses, I still haven't heard of examples of how this potential can be unlocked especially for games that aren't EyeToy-ish.
distrbnce said:Weird recurring sentiment in this thread:
1. Buttonless gaming is just the most innovative thing (though it's been tried and sucks)
2. Buttonless gaming offers more potential (though there isn't any evidence to that effect)
...don't cut off my hands until you can read my mind...
Alx said:And what are you expecting it to track apart your arms, while you're sitting ?
But you're right, that's exactly why sitting in a couch was an issue. The skeletal tracking is a model-based approach, so if you want to make it work in a given situation, you have to use the right model. That's why it can do random things with the wrong software in the wrong situation, but that's also why it can be solved, since it's all about software.
REMEMBER CITADEL said:I guess you just haven't been paying attention because there was a lot of talk about that in various Natal/Kinect threads. In fact, I believe we even had a thread wholly dedicated to that specific question.
cgcg said:Are you kidding me? Maybe you know tracking your body for leaning function in a game? Or gas and pedal in a driving game as advertised? Waving your arm is easier to track because your hands can easily go above a couch.
Alx said:Leaning was demoed in the TED presentation... if they can do arms, they can do the upper body. I wouldn't count on the lower body, though, first because of the "coffee table" problem, and second because moving four feet/legs while sitting in a couch is far from convenient.
PopcornMegaphone said:The reason we're not seeing any core games at launch is partly marketing, but mostly the early Kinect SDK was kind of gimped. We know support for sitting wasn't ready until recently which would make it impossible to develop hybrid kinect/controller games for launch. I'm disappointed with Kinect's launch lineup, but I think 2nd and 3rd gen game could be interesting. Clearly Kinect's SDK is improving a great deal. MS reps have said there will be core game support sometime next year.
PopcornMegaphone said:The reason we're not seeing any core games at launch is partly marketing, but mostly the early Kinect SDK was kind of gimped. We know support for sitting wasn't ready until recently which would make it impossible to develop hybrid kinect/controller games for launch. I'm disappointed with Kinect's launch lineup, but I think 2nd and 3rd gen games could be very interesting. Clearly Kinect's SDK is improving a great deal. MS reps have said there will be core game support sometime next year.
cgcg said:Leaning while sitting on a couch or leaning while sitting on a chair? That's a huge difference. How do you know it's not just tracking the person's head for leaning instead of the body?
Look for the Molyneux presentation on the TED website...cgcg said:Do you have a video of it?
cgcg said:I mean these are raw data videos are you seriously trying to argue with that?