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[mujun]

Are you from an alternate reality where Gamefaqs is GAF?

Seems to be a either "this is the GOF" or "this game should burn in hell" and very little in between. Maybe I'm just reading the wrong threads :lol

Kinect seems destined to struggle sales-wise and may have a very mediocre start in terms of software available in the first 6 months or so of it's life but I don't understand how so many people, seemingly people who love games and the games industry actually hope it will bomb.

I have games I like and games I hate but the only ones I hope will bomb are those that negatively impact some other game or part of the game industry I like.

 

[Mael]

Seems to be a either "this is the GOF" or "this game should burn in hell" and very little in between. Maybe I'm just reading the wrong threads :lol

Kinect seems destined to struggle sales-wise and may have a very mediocre start in terms of software available in the first 6 months or so of it's life but I don't understand how so many people, seemingly people who love games and the games industry actually hope it will bomb.

I have games I like and games I hate but the only ones I hope will bomb are those that negatively impact some other game or part of the game industry I like.

Just look at what it did to Rare, for that reason alone Kinect is a disgrace.
I mean I know how people joked that they were only good at doing Nintendo wannabee games but nobody expected to be vindicated in this manner!
That and flight simulator

 

[venne]

Kids are going to eat up shovelware like this Sonic game. There is doubt about it. A 4 year old could play the game and that the whole point whether people like it or not. They are going to have hardcore, casual and ultra casual rolled into one console bundle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WilsgQJ9iFk

Pretty much.

Practically no one here would rather use motion controls for a racing game than a controller or *gasp* a physical steering wheel with pedals.

It's all about opening doors so more people can get in on the action.

 

[JaggedSac]

In my living room is not possible. It's 7 feet from wall to wall. So the only way to play it should be take out the sofa.

:lol Holy hell.

 

[Jocchan]

In my living room is not possible. It's 7 feet from wall to wall. So the only way to play it should be take out the sofa.

It's not like you would be able to use it anyway

Spoiler

Kidding, of course.

 

[Mr.Green]

I wonder what the average member age is on GAF, like 14?

Tops.

 

[Tormentoso]

Do you think the $150 price point for Microsoft's Kinect is too high?


No - I realize it's sophisticated new technology. 11%

Yes - I just don't think it's worth it. 45%

Don't care - I'm not going to buy it regardless. 44%

http://www.1up.com/


1UP community poll..

 

[FunkyPajamas]

Tops.

That's uncalled for, I'll be 14 and a half in december.

 

[Plinko]

http://www.1up.com/


1UP community poll..

I'm not getting Kinect either, but to be fair, 1UP's readers aren't exactly the market Kinect is going after.

 

[DangerousDave]

:lol Holy hell.

That's the size of an average living room in a normal city small flat (for two people). Around 7 feet x 12 feet. But the position of the windows and doors force to have the TV in the 11 feet wall.

Not all gaf lives in individual houses with garden.

 

[Razgreez]

I'm not getting Kinect either, but to be fair, 1UP's readers aren't exactly the market Kinect is going after.

The market you're going for is not necessarily the market you're getting. This sort of poll proves exactly what i stated above

 

[mckmas8808]

One thing is for sure, there's been a TON of chatter about Kinect during and post E3 and not a lot about Move. Somebody's plan worked pretty damn well. :lol

Actually there are a couple MOVE threads that's got a lot of talk in them. But it's been mostly positive, so it's obvious why you wouldn't want to participate in them.

It's not like there was ever any chatter about Move to begin with :lol . Let's be serious, Move is going to bomb hard. Nobody cares either way.

Go to the 31 launch MOVE titles thread and see all the people that are interested.

 

[Neuromancer]

Just look at what it did to Rare, for that reason alone Kinect is a disgrace.
I mean I know how people joked that they were only good at doing Nintendo wannabee games but nobody expected to be vindicated in this manner!
That and flight simulator

Wait, what flight simulator?

 

[Always-honest]

can't wait to go to the store and not spend 150

 

[TheOddOne]

More applause were hear at the unveiling of Sorcery for move than on the complete MS conference,(taking away the end when they announce free slim for every one).:lol


Also if you have the link to were they play forza while been seat it would be nice,since every article i have read point to all demos been done standing up,worst yet unlike last year were you could accelerate and break with your foot in a racing game,this time all was automatic which is pretty pathetic,you just could turn left or right and that was about it.

It has been show in multiple movies and gifts,it has lag as hell,character move even when you don't,hell one Kotaku bring in the air,Kinect tracing some one who wasn't in front of the camera while a racing game was demo,and it completely mess up the steering for the person playing.


That is the real reason why people keep talking about Kinect, and not so much about move,Move release line look solid,and the tech work even better than Nintendo's and is cheaper than Kinect,so what will people complain about,hell the tech even works for hardcore games,so why would any one complain.?

Your tag fits you.

 

[Tormentoso]

Your tag fits you.

No proving my point wrong,debate or at least a partial bold quote with something from you to counter my argument.

I say it fits you better.

 

[venne]

No proving my point wrong,debate or at least a partial bold quote with something from you to counter my argument.

I say it fits you better.

Would you rather play a racing game like a mime or use an actual controller?

 

[Doncortez]

Im not buying a Kinect – Not until Microsoft realizes that they were over ambitious with trying to make a controller free experience. Microsoft need to develop software with Kinect + controller interaction to be successful or every Kinect experience will be a shallow game experience. The no controller option will crippled the Star Wars game because you have to trust yourself forward to move from one panel to another and this gives the game an on rails experience. Party game and Fitness game will not sell me; only truly immersive action games will gain the interest of non casual players.



Some people are foolishly willing to spend $150 to imagine that they have a Minority Report style interface with the 360 should wait because the tech is being sold to some cable providers according to this article:

PrimeSense expects the motion based technology it provided for Kinect to be integrated into PC’s and cable boxes by 2011.

According to company VP Adi Berenson, the firm has already signed deals for the tech, and one cable provider intends to launch a gesture-controlled set top box by summer 2011.
The technology will work just like Kinect, using a pair of 640 x 480 camera sensors to measure user position in 3D space; however, other features such as Kinect’s voice recognition will not be implemented, as it was created and added by Microsoft.
Berenson added that the company is also working on getting the cameras built into televisions sets, so the tech can “provide natural human control over TV-based media consumption”.
The future is now, we reckon.

http://www.vg247.com/2010/06/23/report-kinect-tech-coming-to-pc-and-tv-by-2011/

 

[Vizion28]

Kudo Tsunoda: Wii an 'unfulfilled promise'

Kudo Tsunoda, the creative director and face of Microsoft's Xbox 360 add-on Kinect, reckons rival console the Wii is an "unfulfilled promise".

Speaking at a special Microsoft Tea event at E310 last week, Tsunoda denied that Kinect is the natural successor to Nintendo's motion-enabled console.

"There is a promise in the Wii that is very hard to deliver in any kind of controller-based stuff," he said.

"Even their very first E3 demos that came out - and you're playing tennis, and everybody's up and you're going like this and you're playing tennis and it's awesome, look at that!

"Anybody who watches those things getting played, you're just sitting here doing your little thing like this [does small movements with wrist]. That's how controller-based games are played.

"Nothing against the Wii, because I like playing the Wii, I like Wii games, and it's a great system, but I do think there is some unfulfilled promise there."

Kinect, properly unveiled during a pre-E310 performance by Cirque du Soleil, enables players to interact with their Xbox 360s using their bodies and voices, and even has face recognition technology.

Since the technology was first unveiled last year, when it was known as Project Natal, commentators have called it the natural successor to the Wii.

However, Tsunoda refuted the suggestion.

"I don't really see Kinect so much as a successor to the Wii at all, because there's just so much more that we can do with our technology. Obviously the full body tracking is so much different than tracking two points in your hands of a controller.

"Somebody says, well, hey, is it a successor to the Wii, or is it an evolution of the Wii? Not really. If all we did was the full body tracking, and we said, okay well, look, you can do stuff with your hands, but now you can do stuff with your full body...

"But really Kinect is so much more than that. You have the full body controls, the voice technology, the human recognition stuff. Not even just talking about the Wii, but where else can you do that in any medium? Really, there's nothing that's delivering that type of experience anywhere in the world."

http://www.videogamer.com/news/kudo_tsunoda_wii_an_unfulfilled_promise.html

Those are some fightin' words.

 

[InsaneZero]

Kinect really needs to be bundled up with a game. Not so much for the sake of more affordable pricing, but to have a good proof of concept alongside the hardware so that potential customers aren't put off by unknown software.

EDIT: Regardless of how the hardware or software actually performs, if the main Kinect package is $150 for the camera alone, I don't see how they're going to sustain sales later on. That's a rather steep entry price, since the actual 360 itself needs to be factored in too.

 

[[Nintex]]

Kudo Tsunoda: Wii an 'unfulfilled promise'



http://www.videogamer.com/news/kudo_tsunoda_wii_an_unfulfilled_promise.html

Those are some fightin' words.

So why isn't there any software that takes advantage of Kinect's 'unique' features other than Dancing games.

 

[KernelPanic]

Microsoft's been trolling the Wii since it came out, hard to take them seriously now.

 

[Tom Penny]

So why isn't there any software that takes advantage of Kinect's 'unique' features other than Dancing games.

I don't think people understand were MS is going with Kinect. It isn't for the harcore. Wait until you see them do simple educational games and stuff like that for kids. From a gaming perspective it's lame but think about that. Voice recognition, you point at objects on the screen that the game tells you to. Teach basic math skills, memorization. Parents already pay money for DVD's like that. That is a market that has never been touched yet. A parent will buy that for their kid just as a babysitting / learning tool. Unfortunatley for core gamers it's garbage at this point.

 

[JaggedSac]

So why isn't there any software that takes advantage of Kinect's 'unique' features other than Dancing games.

Comments from Sega about how they have had only a year to work on things and how MS is constantly improving the dev kits(SDK + hardware). Devs apparently haven't had time to really get into most of the features because they were not fully functional until later in the dev cycle.

http://www.msxbox-world.com/xbox360...and-the-hardcore---Theres-hope-says-SEGA.html

"I think [the idea that the Kinect launch let the hardcore down] is a little harsh," Sega West president Mike Hayes told CVG. "The dev kits we've had to work on have been exponentially improving over the period we've had them. The amount you can do out of the blocks is actually made pretty tricky.

"My guess is when we're at E3 next year, more of the features of Kinect will be in use by developers. I think you'll find more clever and sophisticated applications then. It is a reasonably complicated piece of kit, therefore it's going to take us longer to use all of those aspects in a game. We're not going to be able to develop something [for the hardcore] in under a year, which is frankly what we've had".

"We want to do more clever things on it - create original ways of using it, rather than just taking existing ideas and not just doing the same thing. Having said that, of course, with the success that we've had with Wii, there are a lot of motion games we would like to reinvent for Move and Kinect."

 

[LQX]

Microsoft's been trolling the Wii since it came out, hard to take them seriously now.

How exactly has MS been trolling the Wii? I don't even think I have ever heard them say anything bad about the Wii if they said anything at all.

 

[cakefoo]

Of all the major problems Kinect has, the 6' playing distance isn't one of them.

The Wii has done just fine for itself and some of its most popular games require a similar amount of space.

The difference with the Wii is each person just needs enough room to stand up and swing one arm. And these spaces can be broken up- a space by the chair, one by the couch, spaces to the left and right of the coffee table, etc. But for Kinect, you need one large, open space with absolutely nothing around to obstruct anyone's movement.

Made from photos of gaffers in a post-your-setup thread: http://i38.tinypic.com/2h8319h.jpg

It's scary how few people couldn't actually use Kinect even they wanted.

 

[PhatSaqs]

Comments from Sega about how they have had only a year to work on things and how MS is constantly improving the dev kits(SDK hardware). Devs apparently haven't had time to really get into most of the features because they were not fully functional until later in the dev cycle.

http://www.msxbox-world.com/xbox360...and-the-hardcore---Theres-hope-says-SEGA.html

I remember similar rumblings when the 360 launched.

 

[Maxwell House]

Actually there are a couple MOVE threads that's got a lot of talk in them. But it's been mostly positive, so it's obvious why you wouldn't want to participate in them.



Go to the 31 launch MOVE titles thread and see all the people that are interested.

Gaf messageboArd isn't representative of the general populace at all. The general public literally doesn't even know that move exists.

 

[KernelPanic]

How exactly has MS been trolling the Wii? I don't even think I have ever heard them say anything bad about the Wii if they said anything at all.

Oh they've dismissed it as a kid's toy and how people will want to 'upgrade' to the 360 (Sony has said similar statements as well I'm sure).

So far none of their 'casual gaming 'efforts nor their predictions have come to pass and now here we go again.

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

Made from photos of gaffers in a post-your-setup thread: http://i38.tinypic.com/2h8319h.jpg

Wow. It's really worth the effort?

If you took a picture of my set-up now it would be marked under "Obstruction". It'll also take me 10 seconds to move my coffee table, as I do weekly to play Wii or Rock Band.

 

[LQX]

Oh they've dismissed it as a kid's toy and how people will want to 'upgrade' to the 360 (Sony has said similar statements as well I'm sure).

So far none of their 'casual gaming 'efforts nor their predictions have come to pass and now here we go again.

I think you got it wrong. I remember them saying something of the sorts that people would buy a Wii along with a 360 instead of buying a $600 PS3. There was a even a meme and site that came along with that whole debacle.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

I don't think people understand were MS is going with Kinect. It isn't for the harcore.

This needs to be said again and again.

Kinect is for people who are intimidated by the Wii Balance Board.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Wow. It's really worth the effort?

If you took a picture of my set-up now it would be marked under "Obstruction". It'll also take me 10 seconds to move my coffee table, as I do weekly to play Wii or Rock Band.

I was going to say. How to people play drums in Rock Band? Oh, they move shit out of the way. I figured this was like commonplace. It's not like drums in music games died on the vine.

 

[mckmas8808]

I don't think people understand were MS is going with Kinect. It isn't for the harcore. Wait until you see them do simple educational games and stuff like that for kids. From a gaming perspective it's lame but think about that. Voice recognition, you point at objects on the screen that the game tells you to. Teach basic math skills, memorization. Parents already pay money for DVD's like that. That is a market that has never been touched yet. A parent will buy that for their kid just as a babysitting / learning tool. Unfortunatley for core gamers it's garbage at this point.

So it's not for 80% of their user base. So again how is this a good thing? Are you one of those type of people that believes Nintendo's Wii is a success because they pushed the Wiimote to casuals only?

Gaf messageboArd isn't representative of the general populace at all. The general public literally doesn't even know that move exists.

How do you know this? Have you spoken to everybody is the public all around the world within the last 5 days?

 

[LCfiner]

I was going to say. How to people play drums in Rock Band? Oh, they move shit out of the way. I figured this was like commonplace. It's not like drums in music games died on the vine.

exactly.

I was looking to find my setup in the image but I guess I posted it too long ago. :lol

It would have been great if it was listed as incompatible when all I would have to do is move a coffee table.

and once you have two people playing Wii, you need some major space. a lot of those setups would be deemed incompatible with Wii... yet I clearly see some Wiis underneath those TVs.


jeesh. I'm not even a fan of the stuff i saw for Kinect but some of the "arguments" here are just ridiculous.

 

[KernelPanic]

I think you got it wrong. I remember them saying something of the sorts that people would buy a Wii along with a 360 instead of buying a $600 PS3. There was a even a meme and site that came along with that whole debacle.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2008/jul/08/microsoftthinkwiiisanovel

Microsoft's Aaron Greenberg has suggested that the Wii is a novelty and users will eventually want to "graduate" to the Xbox 360.

"You see they're not buying games on it, right? They're buying it, it's like something they break out when people come over, and it's maybe a fun thing, but it's almost like the same people that buy a karaoke machine, you know? They're not really buying it for games, they're just buying it as a novelty."

Just a quick search.

They've been doing this for some time, not that it's unexpected or anything.

 

[Neuromancer]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2008/jul/08/microsoftthinkwiiisanovel

Just a quick search.

They've been doing this for some time, not that it's unexpected or anything.

Never forget:

Dual platform ownership of Xbox 360 and Wii could be as high as 40% depending on what territory we are talking about. The influence of the Wii-60 movement seems to be growing enormously.

I have been on the record many times talking about my admiration for Nintendo and the innovation that Wii brings. I am not even sure Nintendo fully understands what it has on its hands.

 

[LQX]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2008/jul/08/microsoftthinkwiiisanovel





Just a quick search.

They've been doing this for some time, not that it's unexpected or anything.

Not surprised and remember that last one but to call it "trolling" and to say they have been doing this for a awhile is disingenuous.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Just a quick search.

They've been doing this for some time, not that it's unexpected or anything.

Yeah, MS have pretty much since the Wii has been announced been painting it as a kind of 'side project' and not really competition - damning with faint praise basically.

They did knock that shit off once the Wii started massively outselling them though.

I guess if they're back to painting the Wii as being something that isn't really directly competing with them they're moving the goalposts on the Kinects eventual perceived success, because even the worlds most optimistic Kinect fan isn't going to claim it's sales are going to even put a dent on the Wiis.

EDIT:

Not surprised and remember that last one but to call it "trolling" and to say they have been doing this for a awhile is disingenuous.

No, that's exactly what they were doing by pushing that retarded "wii60 ftw!" angle.

They didn't see the Wii as a serious threat to them in the console marketplace, they assumed it would be a gimmicky fad and they constantly had an undertone of 'sure, pick one up for the kiddies when you get your REAL console'.

When their 'first to 10 million' prophecy came true, they very quickly stopped suggesting people should pick up a Wii and a 360 as a combo, and moved back to focussing on how hardcoreawesomeonline the 360 is in their PR.

 

[CrayzeeCarl]

Made from photos of gaffers in a post-your-setup thread: http://i38.tinypic.com/2h8319h.jpg

:lol @ the kleenex and lotion in #13

 

[cakefoo]

Wow. It's really worth the effort?

If you took a picture of my set-up now it would be marked under "Obstruction". It'll also take me 10 seconds to move my coffee table, as I do weekly to play Wii or Rock Band.

There are some bulky ones in there that might need more than one person to move. Personally, I just moved my room around to accommodate Kinect and Move (I had a long shelf protruding out into the center of my room like sort of a separator). But aside from that even, it still leaves more than half the setups with distance-related issues.

It's not something I cooked up today, by the way. I did the picture a year ago in response to several people who flamed me when I brought up the distance thing. I had nobody else to echo my concerns, so I just wanted to back up my statements, and have an accurate analysis rather than look like I was generalizing.

 

[Tormentoso]

Im not buying a Kinect – Not until Microsoft realizes that they were over ambitious with trying to make a controller free experience. Microsoft need to develop software with Kinect + controller interaction to be successful or every Kinect experience will be a shallow game experience. The no controller option will crippled the Star Wars game because you have to trust yourself forward to move from one panel to another and this gives the game an on rails experience. Party game and Fitness game will not sell me; only truly immersive action games will gain the interest of non casual players.



Some people are foolishly willing to spend $150 to imagine that they have a Minority Report style interface with the 360 should wait because the tech is being sold to some cable providers according to this article:

PrimeSense expects the motion based technology it provided for Kinect to be integrated into PC’s and cable boxes by 2011.

According to company VP Adi Berenson, the firm has already signed deals for the tech, and one cable provider intends to launch a gesture-controlled set top box by summer 2011.
The technology will work just like Kinect, using a pair of 640 x 480 camera sensors to measure user position in 3D space; however, other features such as Kinect’s voice recognition will not be implemented, as it was created and added by Microsoft.
Berenson added that the company is also working on getting the cameras built into televisions sets, so the tech can “provide natural human control over TV-based media consumption”.
The future is now, we reckon.

http://www.vg247.com/2010/06/23/report-kinect-tech-coming-to-pc-and-tv-by-2011/

And that is the real problem up until now it has been nothing but shallowness,the Eye Toy on PS2 and PS3 alone were not better,shallow as well and that is the problem with such a tech,they over promise and under delivered big time,i mean come wasn't Kinect and Move announce about the same time,and move has almost double the number of games for launch,and actually works.?

I think MS went all out trying to make Kinect work,but maybe way after they were in they realize the tech doesn't quite work like they were thinking ,just look at the adds for Natal,and what was really show this E3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxAutKFnw0M

You can see a racing game were not only 1 person is seating on a couch but several,and you can even see how the she even use her hand doing a motion like if she was shifting gears.

Not only Kinect most be able to luck unto that player,but it most also not scan other people around it for it to work,something Kotaku bring already,when a racing game was demo.

 

[Zabka]

And that is the real problem up until now it has been nothing but shallowness,the Eye Toy on PS2 and PS3 alone were not better,shallow as well and that is the problem with such a tech,they over promise and under delivered big time,i mean come wasn't Kinect and Move announce about the same time,and move has almost double the number of games for launch,and actually works.?

It's not that black and white.

Kinect has 15 launch games.

Move has 31 "launch window" games, with ~16 launching the same month as Move. Move is optional for several of them.

 

[venne]

So it's not for 80% of their user base. So again how is this a good thing? Are you one of those type of people that believes Nintendo's Wii is a success because they pushed the Wiimote to casuals only?

You act as though there is zero crossover; that 80% will reject it because it's not 'hardcore' enough. Do all of these people live in a vacuum where it's just them and their 360? Of course not. There are things called significant others, children, and friends in these people's lives.

I've purchased four Singstar games and a great amount of its DLC for friends and family to enjoy. I've bought two Buzz! games to get eight wireless buzzers for the very same purpose. I like introducing people to video games and Kinect will only make gaming more accessible.

 

[BorkBork]

I haven't been keeping up, but is the object scanning feature still part of Kinect's package?

 

[JWong]

I haven't been keeping up, but is the object scanning feature still part of Kinect's package?

They did not show it, so we can only assume that it's as good as sitting down.

 

[PhatSaqs]

I haven't been keeping up, but is the object scanning feature still part of Kinect's package?

It hasnt been demoed at all and hasnt been listed as a feature so it's either not yet implemented or has been dropped. Time will tell.

 

[derFeef]

I haven't been keeping up, but is the object scanning feature still part of Kinect's package?

What do you mean, Kinect package. It all depends on the software/game I think.

 

[Solid warrior]

I haven't been keeping up, but is the object scanning feature still part of Kinect's package?

I don't know if this is a form of object scanning: link.
but I think you're talking about the skateboard scanning, right? It hasn't been confirmed yet.

 

[mckmas8808]

You act as though there is zero crossover; that 80% will reject it because it's not 'hardcore' enough. Do all of these people live in a vacuum where it's just them and their 360? Of course not. There are things called significant others, children, and friends in these people's lives.
I've purchased four Singstar games and a great amount of its DLC for friends and family to enjoy. I've bought two Buzz! games to get eight wireless buzzers for the very same purpose. I like introducing people to video games and Kinect will only make gaming more accessible.

That sounds great and all, but there's no reason for MS to not target their hard core user base. There's no excuse for that. Nintendo didn't do that, so why would MS?