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[Jedi2016]

Are people not supposed to care about objectification of women or sexualization in video games because it's so prevalent?

Doesn't matter. They already don't care. If more than a few outspoken individuals actually gave a shit about the subject, they'd speak with their wallets and it wouldn't be happening.

Me personally, I don't give a shit one way or another. Dress Quiet however you want, it's not going to make a lick of difference to me.

 

[HyperBitHero]

if this was any other developer people would be all over it like flies on shit but cos its Kojima, nope.

No, people wouldn't.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

I hate when people use this as an excuse. The character wasn't leaked, it was shown to us. If you don't what us to make an opinion on it based on what we can see/what you've shown, then don't show it. Don't talk about some mystical context when you aren't willing to tell us that context.

So you are going to complain about every single movie trailer?

 

[Veelk]

Doesn't matter. They already don't care. If more than a few outspoken individuals actually gave a shit about the subject, they'd speak with their wallets and it wouldn't be happening.

Me personally, I don't give a shit one way or another. Dress Quiet however you want, it's not going to make a lick of difference to me.

The problem is that it is so prevalent in games, that if you were to follow this in every instance, you'd hardly be buying any games at all. Also, you have to look out for hte games that use sexuality well, which would require looking into potential spoilers. Lastly, even if you do this, it's hard to communicate that the game didn't sell well because of this reason in particular instead of any of the hundreds of other components of the game. So yeah, pretty useless approach in this case. It'd be better if we could support a game that doesn't sexually objectify people better, which are rarer.

 

[Boke1879]

I care. Sexual objectification is wrong. That the rest of the industry, including the 343 guy, shares this problem is a shame and it should be called out on being so.

How come no one made a big deal about naked Raiden? Vamp makes sexual gestures and sounds and no one bats an eye. PEACE WALKER (enough said)

Now Kojima shows an attractive character that is showing a bit of skin and everyone is going batshit insane. Kojima has stated he wants to see Skullface AND Quiet Cosplay, but people decide to focus on the latter because it SEEMINGLY objectifies women.

People are basing their judgments on a few seconds in a trailer.

 

[Jedi2016]

The problem is that it is so prevalent in games, that if you were to follow this in every instance, you'd hardly be buying any games at all. Also, you have to look out for hte games that use sexuality well, which would require looking into potential spoilers. Lastly, even if you do this, it's hard to communicate that the game didn't sell well because of this reason in particular instead of any of the hundreds of other components of the game. So yeah, pretty useless approach in this case. It'd be better if we could support a game that doesn't sexually objectify people better, which are rarer.

I actually agree, but I don't think waving pitchforks and torches because we see a little skin is really the right way to go about it. It seems obvious from Kojima's tweets that he has no intention of changing it, whatever his reasons may be.

 

[Aaron]

So you are going to complain about every single movie trailer?

You haven't seen recent trailers. They give away the entire movie now to save you the trouble of going to see it.

 

[Veelk]

How come no one made a big deal about naked Raiden? Vamp makes sexual gestures and sounds and no one bats an eye. PEACE WALKER (enough said)

Now Kojima shows an attractive character that is showing a bit of skin and everyone is going batshit insane. Kojima has stated he wants to see Skullface AND Quiet Cosplay, but people decide to focus on the latter because it SEEMINGLY objectifies women.

People are basing their judgments on a few seconds in a trailer.

I didn't see Raiden as sexual objectification. Sexualization isn't necessarily wrong, as I said earlier. It was done to enforce his vulnerability through gameplay. It's odd that Ocelot didn't strip Snake entirely when he was torturing him in MGS1, but removing the clothing of someone is one of the most effective ways to psychologically enforce helplessness. And as the player, your abilities were extremely limited because Raiden was constantly covering himself. Besides, I don't think many people actually enjoyed seeing Raiden naked, even women, but I don't have much experience on that front.

I actually agree, but I don't think waving pitchforks and torches because we see a little skin is really the right way to go about it. It seems obvious from Kojima's tweets that he has no intention of changing it, whatever his reasons may be.

Point out to me the waving of pitchforks. All I see is people rightfully calling Kojima out on his bullshit. I'm not suggesting he change it, just that what him being outraged by the notion that he's just perving. Even if he's telling the truth about Quiet's context explaining why she is so scantily clad, his being offended at the accusation is ridiculous when that's what he's been doing with most of his other female characters.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

You haven't seen recent trailers. They give away the entire movie now to save you the trouble of going to see it.

Dunno, college eat all time to go to see films.

I didn't see Raiden as sexual objectification

Well, I have bad news to give you about female Japanese fans...

 

[mr teaspoon]

How come no one made a big deal about naked Raiden?

Probably because sexual objectification of men isn't something that has existed seemingly forever in our culture.

 

[akidnamededdy]

JKojima is basically taking up the "you lack context because you haven't played the game" defense.

It's a fair defense, to be honest.

Kinda worried about the story. Sounds like a slew of forced, convoluted nonsense.

Welcome to MGS!

 

[toddhunter]

MGSV is about racism?

it's going to be terrible isn't it?

Yep it'll probably be terrible. But then I'll cry at the end.

He makes it work...somehow.

 

[Zen]

The only difference is in their gender (and Raiden wearing nothing at all at some point in the game), I think.

At least he's not changing the frigging main character to appeal to a demographic this time (or is he? ).

Haha not at all. You're seriously proposing equivalency between how Raiden is presented and this?

I don't recall Raiden contorting himself remotely provocatively in MGS2, or things like this his tweet focusing on her ass.

That's their mo-cap studio.

Why would they need to dress up in full combat gear for training?

They've done that at Kojima Productions for years.

Are you suggesting they go out and specifically build ear characters costume in real life for the actors to wear? because they don't do that for most mo-capping. There's no need for her to show up with only a bra.

That's their mo-cap studio.

Why would they need to dress up in full combat gear for training?

They've done that at Kojima Productions for years.

Are you suggesting they go out and specifically build each characters costume in real life for the actors to wear? because they don't do that for most mo-capping. There's no need for her to show up with only a bra.

 

[Boke1879]

Probably because sexual objectification of men isn't something that has existed seemingly forever in our culture.

So just because it's happened LONGER to women gives it more merit?

Look I'm all for representing women well in video games, but it seems like these groups are just getting mad and upset just for the sake of it at this point. If a woman who is presented in a game isn't their perfect view of what a woman should be then the character is deemed shit.

I personally think she looks badass and can't wait for her to start fucking shit up. Hoping she'll be a great boss fight.

 

[toddhunter]

I don't recall Raiden contorting himself remotely provocatively in MGS2, or things like this his tweet focusing on her ass.

You don't remember doing naked cartwheels?

 

[Boke1879]

You don't remember doing naked cartwheels?

Or what about Volgin grabbing Snakes package? Thing is Kojima has always had very sexual themes and jokes in his games and NOW people want to start a riot over a character design?

 

[weevles]

Raiden was butt naked (literally) and holding his crotch. But obviously men can't be sexual objects because that never happens.

 

[RK9039]

Are you suggesting they go out and specifically build each characters costume in real life for the actors to wear? because they don't do that for most mo-capping. There's no need for her to show up with only a bra.

I forget how many times I've posted this now.

https://twitter.com/HIDEO_KOJIMA_EN/status/345435350421884929

We tested 3D cap shooting on Ms. Stephanie a year and half ago, with camo costume.

Granted, it's just a 'test', nonetheless it's there and we haven't played the game yet, so who knows.

 

[mullet2000]

Raiden was butt naked (literally) and holding his crotch. But obviously men can't be sexual objects because that never happens.

Wait, Raiden was naked in MGS2? Damn that is the same thing!

Why hasn't anyone pointed that out before?

 

[Moral Panic]

So you are going to complain about every single movie trailer?

If the movie shows blatant racism, sexual objectification of women, or some other thing I find objectionable. Then yes, why not? I'm certainly not going to wait until "context", when I already have already seen everything available.

 

[w1gglyjones]

There is nothing wrong with having a sexual, scantily clad character, particularly if they are used sensibly and coherently within the narrative of the story, which is what Kojima seems to be implying that he does....

Another issue though, is that Kojima says Quiet serves a purpose. But if (after waiting for the game's release), we find out that that purpose could have been met without giving her that appearance, then it's completely pointless.

It's a fair defense, to be honest

It's not becuase he is going on twitter talking about how he wants to make the character(s) sexy to sell figurines and get cosplayers excited.

 

[chrominance]

I'm going to sidestep most of the discussion in here and just say that I'm really looking forward to seeing how the story in MGSV justifies Quiet's outfit. Like, what explanation would make me feel ashamed? I'm hoping it's something suitably Russ Meyer-esque like "oh my, she has an skin allergy to darkness that causes her to collapse into a heap if she doesn't expose at least 90% of her skin to daylight!" or "as part of her sniper training Quiet was forced to wear hairshirts for six months straight and while she was in the hairshirt her family was killed by a firebomber and now she can't stand to wear clothing because it's traumatic!" or "Quiet has a debilitating stripper fetish!"

 

[Spider from Mars]

Ripped tights are the best
Boobies are the best
Kojima is the best
The best

 

[jacksepticeye]

and the thread has become the same one as before again. I feel like people are going around in circles about this

 

[Zen]

You don't remember doing naked cartwheels?

Sure do. That's not contorting provocatively or posting tweets focusing on her ass.

 

[weevles]

Different strokes for different folks.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

If the movie shows blatant racism, sexual objectification of women, or some other thing I find objectionable. Then yes, why not? I'm certainly not going to wait until "context", when I already have already seen everything available.

10 seconds of a trailer of a 20 hour game?

Welp

 

[akidnamededdy]

It's not becuase he is going on twitter talking about how he wants to make the character(s) sexy to sell figurines and get cosplayers excited.

Dude knows what sells.

 

[w1gglyjones]

Dude knows what sells.

Great, so his defense of "wait to play the game" isn't fair. We can criticize based on what info he's released and tweeted about.

 

[ichtyander]

To be frank, Raiden wasn't naked the whole time in MGS2. That wasn't his actual, default look, while Quiet's look most likely is. The part where Raiden's actually naked is very short and obviously a gag, with a bit of fan service. Quiet's outfit will probably be like this for most of, if not the whole game. But then again, MGS games have had a lot of fan service and sexual themes which, in part, is prevalent in Japanese games and anime anyway.

However, I really don't see that much of a problem in Quiet's outfit and there will most probably be a lot of abuse and degradation in her backstory which drastically affected her psyche, rendering her unable to speak yet she expresses herself and her revolt through her looks and her weapon, the sniper. That, with a combination of needing to expose her skin for photosynthesis can be somewhat of a good enough reason for her too look this way. I mean, it's all on par with Kojima's earlier characters and themes, it's just that they all look a lot more photorealistic in MGS5, so I guess it causes more of a stir.

 

[akidnamededdy]

Great, so his defense of "wait to play the game" isn't fair. We can criticize based on what info he's released and tweeted about.

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. We certainly can't say for sure until we DO play the game, can we?

 

[10k]

This game, for my PS4, in my veins, now!

 

[putarorex]

Maybe she was a child bride in Afghanistan and forced to wear a burkha; now she is a member of FEMEN. Either way, I am sure there will be a 20 minute cut scene explaining it all. : )

 

[delta25]

Yeah. Amazing, amazing!

The lack of gameplay only goes to show what a genius Kojima is. The hours of cutscenes makes you crave the gameplay more, and serves to make what little gameplay there is all the more meaningful and... precious!

There is a lot of confusion to do with how exactly 'Ground Zeroes' and 'Phantom Pain' constitute MGS V. I believe I know the answer: 'Ground Zeroes' is a metaphor for the battle between Western and Japanese game development. Ground Zeroes begins in a Western style open-world where actual gameplay takes place. This slowly begins to diminish as longer and longer cutscenes occur, until you reach 'Phantom Pain' where the gameplay is condensed down to a single button press. Yes, it is only one button press, but knowing Koijma, i'm sure it will be the greatest button press in gaming history!

This is the 'victory' Kojima speaks of. People will be talking about that one amazing button press for years to come.

I take it you're not a fan? You seem a bit miffed towards future MGS games and Kojima just because you can't appreciate his "one button" vision. Yet 5,000,000 copies later one would start to think he must have done something right, or maybe me and the other 4,999,999 people just have bad taste.

 

[brian!]

Kojima taking on race? This will be interesting.

so excited

 

[w1gglyjones]

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. We certainly can't say for sure until we DO play the game, can we?

Can't say for sure what, exactly?

There lots of things I can say about his latest work and musings. He put all that out there. To come back with "wait" is stupid, even if what he says winds up making sense in the end (which I doubt). Besides, whatever message he's trying to send with his game... there's a good chance that he could have conveyed it without giving her that appearance.

 

[KAL2006]

Quiet has to dress like a whore or the nanomachines will kill her.

But seriously I don't have a problem, I like MGS, I like games, I like tits, win win for me all around, don't really care how Kojima puts details of the story about this in the game.

 

[Nocturno999]

"you will feel ashamed of your words & deeds."

WTF? hahaha

 

[Zoramon089]

I don't recall Raiden contorting himself remotely provocatively in MGS2, or things like this his tweet focusing on her ass.

Is this a joke or are you actually serious? No, really. I'm trying to decide whether to brush it off or burst out laughing at you. Raiden was SUPER sexualized in MGS2. That is undeniable by anyone

 

[Dragon1893]

I'm going to sidestep most of the discussion in here and just say that I'm really looking forward to seeing how the story in MGSV justifies Quiet's outfit. Like, what explanation would make me feel ashamed? I'm hoping it's something suitably Russ Meyer-esque like "oh my, she has an skin allergy to darkness that causes her to collapse into a heap if she doesn't expose at least 90% of her skin to daylight!" or "as part of her sniper training Quiet was forced to wear hairshirts for six months straight and while she was in the hairshirt her family was killed by a firebomber and now she can't stand to wear clothing because it's traumatic!" or "Quiet has a debilitating stripper fetish!"

No matter how deep or complex it is, at the end of the day it will just be an excuse to show the character semi-naked, because he already said that she was designed to be sexy. So the character isn't a result of the backstory that was written for her, the backstory is an excuse for her appearance which was decided beforehand based on a criteria that is alien to the game itself.
I'd rather have it the other way around but obviously it's his game so he can do whatever the hell he wants.

 

[Branduil]

I think trying to come up with a coherent in-universe explanation for a character dressing like that in a war zone is more embarrassing than just saying you wanted a character that dressed like a hooker.

 

[Roto13]

After the genius that was the leadup to MGS2 and how perfectly it fit with the message of the game, I'm willing to give Kojima the benefit of the doubt here.

 

[Swordsman VII]

"GENE"⇒"MEME"⇒"SCENE"⇒"PEACE"⇒"RACE".

Ok I get how some of these themes could apply to their respective game, but how can you even use the word "Scene" as a theme? None of the uses of the word I can think of make any sense at all as a descriptor of MGS 3.

Someone please explain.

 

[RK9039]

Is this a joke or are you actually serious? No, really. I'm trying to decide whether to brush it off or burst out laughing at you. Raiden was SUPER sexualized in MGS2. That is undeniable by anyone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYd6McAUTeE&t=0m32s

Makes me laugh every time.

Ok I get how some of these themes could apply to their respective game, but how can you even use the word "Scene" as a theme? None of the uses of the word I can think of make any sense at all as a descriptor of MGS 3.

Someone please explain.

http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Metal_Gear_Solid_3:_Snake_Eater#Theme

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

Can't say for sure what, exactly?

There lots of things I can say about his latest work and musings. He put all that out there. To come back with "wait" is stupid, even if what he says winds up making sense in the end (which I doubt). Besides, whatever message he's trying to send with his game... there's a good chance that he could have conveyed it without giving her that appearance.

I think some of us prefer the wait and see aproach above going outraged, specially because no everyone here dislikes Kojima work.

 

[RSB]

What!? When did Kojima instruct cosplayers to wear Quiet's outfit? If you read the previous tweets, he was actually saying pretty much the opposite. Seriously, some people are just looking for reasons to be offended...

 

[aeolist]

https://twitter.com/HIDEO_KOJIMA_EN/status/367894294322872320

oh thank god i was worried

 

[Nothing1016]

https://twitter.com/HIDEO_KOJIMA_EN/status/367894294322872320

oh thank god i was worried

lmao! hahahahaha thats golden.

 

[Dennis]

There is no coming back from this, Kojima.

You can talk and talk all you want but the image speaks well enough for itself.

 

[The Silver]

The only way to really solve the female character issue in video games(and other media) is if women get into the high positions and can start calling the shots.

Since that's not going to be happening anytime soon........idk sorry girls, gonna have to deal with the lack of female protagonists. The way secondary characters are presented is much easier to address but even then this is a symptom of a larger cultural issue.