CassidyIzABeast
Member
I tried using a controller in BLOPS2 on PC and got wrecked. It was impossible to find a sensitivity that didn't have me overshooting people.
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Lawbreakers dev: PC/console cross-platform play is dumb
- Thread starter KSweeley
- Start date
CommandThrower
Member
Cliff is right in this regard: LawBreakers having cross play between PC and PS4 would be bad. You can't compromise the PC version so that console players can keep up.
I shudder at the mere idea of Quake: Champions having cross play, should that game ever get a console release.
This would help a bit, though.
I shudder at the mere idea of Quake: Champions having cross play, should that game ever get a console release.
just add native m&kb support on the ps4, buddy
This would help a bit, though.
Obscuritas
Member
No lies detected.
Always-honest
Banned
Yeah you'll never win from a point and click pc player. It's waaaaay easier than dual analog.
I sincerely doubt it for most competitive fps games.
I sincerely doubt it for most competitive fps games.
Serious Sam
Member
This urban myth was debunked when Gears of War 4 crossplay was added. People using mouse+kb setups on PC don't have any significant advantage over people using controllers.
It MIGHT be true for the most competitive FPS games like Quake Champions, but for big majority of genres crossplay can work perfectly.
Alexander DeLarge
Member
This is really unfortunate because I think it'd be really cool if developers started treating the PS4 as a "box to run the PC client" for several games.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
It's almost like the old LOL consoles posts from Mark Rein on Usenet.
Kent
Member
A lot of this is due to the fact that Gears of War, as a gameplay paradigm, was very much designed around using a controller first, and later back-ported to mouse and keyboard. Despite that mouse and keyboard works well, the advantages it gives are mitigated due to game mechanics specifically. This is why The Coalition was able to do this.
On the other side of things, both Quake III Arena and Shadowrun proved that if you take a PC-styled FPS and allow PC and console players to play together, anyone with a mouse is pretty much going to stomp all over anyone using a controller instead - even my moderate-at-best PC FPS skills back in the day allowed me to dominate basically any game I could find when using the Dreamcast's mouse in Quake III. Shadowrun had the right idea, in that they should try to mitigate the advantages of using a mouse over a controller, but their implementation wasn't aggressive enough, and if it had been, it would just end up with a game that feels terrible to play.
So while it's absolutely possible to have a game where discrete advantages of one control type over another are mitigated, it's entirely based on the design of the game and its mechanics. A controller using analog sticks will never be able to realistically compete with a keyboard and mouse in a game designed explicitly around them and then retrofitted to work on a controller.
So for something like Lawbreakers? It's about as smart as trying to do the same with StarCraft.
Crossplay is actually coming to ranked games in Gears of War 4.
Surprised Cliffy B even needed to spell it out to someone.
Cross-platform play between console and PC users makes no sense in any competitive FPS (co-op works fine though), much less Lawbreakers that is absolutely a fast paced arena shooter in the vein of Quake or Unreal Tournament. Hell it's more demanding than those games due to the frequent use of gravity changes that happen, movement abilities that work with those gravity changes, and all just serves to make the differences between analog and mouse aiming more apparent.
Funny reading some of the Ars Technica responses asking for Jesus-level matchmaking that has never existed to fix the issue, or people thinking console users will just go get mice/keyboards to play en masse leveling the playing field.
Cross-platform play between console and PC users makes no sense in any competitive FPS (co-op works fine though), much less Lawbreakers that is absolutely a fast paced arena shooter in the vein of Quake or Unreal Tournament. Hell it's more demanding than those games due to the frequent use of gravity changes that happen, movement abilities that work with those gravity changes, and all just serves to make the differences between analog and mouse aiming more apparent.
Funny reading some of the Ars Technica responses asking for Jesus-level matchmaking that has never existed to fix the issue, or people thinking console users will just go get mice/keyboards to play en masse leveling the playing field.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
I don't see why hackers would limit themselves to the gamepad servers. They're a game-wide issue.
Interesting, thanks for the correction! As I earlier said I don't play the game myself, so I only found info on the social quick play with googling.
This part in the link though "Core and Competitive are key experiences in Gears of War 4 that offer a more skill-based matchmade environment. While we know many of our players will enjoy playing against their opponents regardless of platform, we also know many of our players will want to ensure a level playing field - and that means keeping their opponents on the same platform as they are." The crossplay isn't forced on Xbox players, they can still play without PC gamers, PC players don't get to choose because they aren't the ones in disadvantage. So I don't know how "the myth" is broken that people on PC have an advantage. They aren't adding the crossplay because it's fair, they are adding it because there are so little players on PC it's hard to matchmake. The split of players was 91/9 in favor of Xbox users in the crossplay test weekend atleast. I would imagine that represents the entire playerbase pretty accurately. It's nice of the devs to care about the tiny PC playerbase too that they are doing something like this, it's really commendable.
And you are definitely correct that there's quite a gap between GoW and Lawbreakers in terms of how they play.
The only genre of games that get big benefits from cross play is fighting games because the player base being spread for a specific game sucks. Rocket league didnt need crossplay but it helps all the platforms equally. Fps with a controller vs m+kb is like playing two entirely different games.
Even though cliff comes off as a dick to some, hes right.
Even though cliff comes off as a dick to some, hes right.
Considering how an average gaffer posts about games they don't like, one would think they could relate to Cliff. =P Maybe the anime comments about Overwatch are still burning under their skins.
funkystudent
Member
MMOs as well.
But yeah. For a shooter it's flaws are obvious.
In most cases I think it would just help with matchmaking but if your game is so unpopular it needs that boost then you have bigger issues. They could turn off cross play in rocket league tomorrow and that game would still be fine.
You mean that crossplay for MMO:s are beneficial or harmful? I haven't played any console MMO:s, I guess there it works since they are designed with controller in mind, so those can't be very complex. But thinking something anything close to WoW, controller would be awful against m+kb. There's so many abilities that if you don't bind everything (or atleat most) of the abilities in straight keyboard/mouse presses and click them on mouse instead from the skillbar, you are at disadvantage when the opponent reacts and executes much faster. Also the benefit of addons in PC.
This.
He's right when it comes to fast paced twitch FPS.
I'll never forget the laughs when the DC patch came out for Quake 3 and let PC players join the Dreamcast servers and play against folks using that control pad.
Let the console versions stay in their own lane, with the autoaim assist and whatnot. They want NO problems with someone on a KB&M. They will just get slaughtered.
I'll never forget the laughs when the DC patch came out for Quake 3 and let PC players join the Dreamcast servers and play against folks using that control pad.
Let the console versions stay in their own lane, with the autoaim assist and whatnot. They want NO problems with someone on a KB&M. They will just get slaughtered.
Yautja_Warrior
Member
Yeah I always found this a weird thing. Not all PC players use M & KB with every game, even with M & KB it doesn't mean everybody will be good at the game.
Having a PC myself, I play BF1 with friends, a few of us use 360 controllers and the others M & KB and M & KB doesn't dominate at all, seems evenly matched most of the time. Obviously M & KB (in a skilled players hands) can be better but it doesn't stop a good player using a controller from being competitive too.
Hey, nice to see people not just jumping on him for a random tweet.
Crossplay works great for certain games, but console gamers are way too comfortable with their controllers for it to work for any game where m+kb is superior.
Luckily the inverse isn't true, I guess since controllers are much easier to use with a standard pc setup than m+kb is to use with a standard console setup.
Crossplay works great for certain games, but console gamers are way too comfortable with their controllers for it to work for any game where m+kb is superior.
Luckily the inverse isn't true, I guess since controllers are much easier to use with a standard pc setup than m+kb is to use with a standard console setup.
Sad Affleck
Member
CosmicRomancer
Member
I don't see it as dumb. People always seem to have something to feel aggrieved about in a competitive game. I don't see playing with PC players a problem if it means you get to play with your friends.
Cliffy B in da house, yo.
Weltall Zero
Member
just add native m&kb support on the ps4, buddy
And fuck everyone that doesn't buy one, right?
Nah, for shooters, no cross play and no mouse support on consoles is the only reasonable choice.
TheRedSnifit
Member
Because BF1 doesn't require movement and aiming on the level of Lawbreakers. And even then, a mouse user with the Automatico Trench or Model 10 can stomp all over anybody with a gamepad, hence the amount of whining those weapons receive.
funkystudent
Member
I think for MMOs it's the way to go if you don't want a dead game on console in 6 months.
Granted console MMOs are not near the hud explosion as wow but I think FF14 is a great example of cross play working out for everyone.
Baleoce
Member
For sure, it seems to work for less complex MMO:s. Though it's good that there are big budget MMO:s available that don't need to be designed with controller restrictions in mind. Something for everyone.
I can see the headlines, "Polygon: CliffyB ain't your buddy."
100% agree. I play Paragon on PS4 and at the matchmaking cap I'm constantly getting my ass handed to me by the game's best players. I mean yeah, Paragon supports Kb&M, but that's not why I play on PS4. The player base is not that big so if you're decent at the game and understand MOBAs you'll be playing against the top 0.05%. It's gotten to the point that I don't wanna play the game unless I can team up with my lower elo mate who doesn't play much so the game balances out the two team's MMR.
FadedRevolution
Member
There is controller support.
Then Cliffs argument makes even less sense.
TheCanisDirus
Member
Whelp he's absolutely correct. And after spending 15+hours in the beta on PC i can vouch... it even makes Quake Champions look slow lol... no way you'd want to have the majority of console palyers using gamepads (even if KB+M was allowed most wouldnt use it) go up against PC players (where the majority will be using KB+M). No contest at all and it wouldnt be fun for either side.
Psychoward
Banned
Agreed completely...gears is one of the few shooters where crossplay is even possible. The difference between mouse and pad play is not that huge of a gulf. I could see them doing some social playlist in halo 6, but no one should be under any impression that the mouse users don't have a huge advantage in halo. Gears 4 also has a much smaller pop on pc (the crossplay test said 9% of users were on pc and probably smaller in other places) so this is a great advantage for them
EDIT: Also i play more console shooters but still good with a mouse from a lot of counter strike source and halo pc; i had better luck on pc with controller than mouse on gears 4