Fuz
Banned
Consumers stopped it.
They didn't.
And it's way too little way too late.
Consumers stopped it.
They didn't.
And it's way too little way too late.
WTF are you talking about they completely took out the P2W element out of the game with the exception of the extra money edition that just about every modern game has now...
You're literally denying reality to fit your narrative...
Interesting fact about Hawaii. It has been very hostile towards gambling. ALL gambling is outlawed in Hawaii. Only one other state completely outlaws gambling similar to Hawaii.(If you guessed Utah, you are correct)
While Hawaii is a progressive blue state, they align themselves with typically very religious red states on gambling. Actually bible belt states are more lenient since many of them offer state lotteries and horse race betting.
In 2012, Hawaii police actually raided a dude's house because he was hosting a poker game in his living room with some friends. His bail was $400. Yeah, they are a bit crazy in regards to gambling in Hawaii.
With the caveat that they will be re-activated at a later date, which was in the very same press release that announced their removal. Translation, they're coming back once the fervor dies down.
I'll make a prediction too, that they're going to roll them back out very soon and try to justify it by claiming they've 'added' the cosmetics that were mined out of the game's data last weekend, and are 'replacing' many of the higher level cards.
Please, you guys have been saying they'll put it back "next week" then "two weeks" then "After Christmas"...
They're not putting it back, only cosmetic stuff...
I wish I had your optimism! We'll be seeing what actually happens sooner rather than later.
Happy to see someone taking a proactive stance towards this and essentially the overall picture of gaming being an addiction akin to gambling
Biggest thing against this if lootboxes go, is gaming companies are going to have to replace the losses that lootboxes bring in, and that means more expensive gaming for everyone.
Let's make an account bet. Give a "soon" date...
Sorry, I don't do gambling!
Please, you guys have been saying they'll put it back "next week" then "two weeks" then "After Christmas"...
They're not putting it back, only cosmetic stuff...
The last thing we need is a political involvement in video games that catches the attention of the government. Also, I doubt this will ever go through.
We know they're coming back. EA admits it and they already said cosmetics are incompatible because of lore reasons.
Can't put your money where your mouth is, eh? It's not gambling if you know the outcome, so c'mon gimme a date... or are you just completely full of shit?
i can see making gambling for items that can be sold and traded for real money being made illegal. however, outlawing loot boxes as a whole doesn't make sense to me. while it may be predatory, it is certainly not something that needs legislation.
not to mention his description of what should be banned. gambling mechanisms? random loot is what many games rely on to create unpredictable elements in games, and i don't trust the government to be able to tell the difference between loot for the purposes of unpredictability, and for the purpose of adding gambling elements.
How would allowing direct purchase of cosmetic items fragment the player base? Agreed map packs would do so but most popular multiplayer games have map packs vs free map releases.
Agreed in principle, but this has turned into such a mustache twirling douchebag festival that I am eager to see the implosions. Any industry with common sense knows how to operate within certain parameters to keep things like this from happening. Video games have not been a common sense industry for some time now.Slippery slop to go down. The government still looks as video games as murder simulators. I'd rather the consumer make the call than the government.
There's actually a big differences. Loot boxes are paid for with real money for a small chance to obtain something like a casino. Loot drop there is no exchange of money involve. Basicallky the major difference is money is involve and becomes a form of gambling with money.
Loot boxes are more like buying a pack of sports cards, where you get a bunch of common cards, but there is also that chance you may get a star player or a coveted rookie card.
I don't like what EA did with SWBF II, but I say we let the consumer decide.
Slippery slop to go down. The government still looks as video games as murder simulators. I'd rather the consumer make the call than the government.
Loot boxes are more like buying a pack of sports cards, where you get a bunch of common cards, but there is also that chance you may get a star player or a coveted rookie card.
I don't like what EA did with SWBF II, but I say we let the consumer decide.
Please, you guys have been saying they'll put it back "next week" then "two weeks" then "After Christmas"...
They're not putting it back, only cosmetic stuff...
Letting the consumer decide isn't the answer for everything, especially when these can be purchased by children in games not rated M or above, etc. There definitely should be some kind of restrictions set in place in general to at least put the reigns on this practice.
They have restrictions in place. They're called PARENTS. Any child with enough money to make purchases leading to legislative change can spend their money how they like.
I know this is completely off-topic but this is the first mod in the wild spotting in weeks. Glad to see you in the thread!Lets keep the discussion civil and not resort to personal attacks.
There's actually a big differences. Loot boxes are paid for with real money for a small chance to obtain something like a casino. Loot drop there is no exchange of money involve. Basicallky the major difference is money is involve and becomes a form of gambling with money.
There is money involved. When you buy the game that is consideration.
If lootboxes are classified as gambling, then Diablo 3 would be gambling too and any game that you pay and has RNG would be gambling as well.
Nice job, idiots. If you're pro-Washington control of video games, you are stupid. Stupid stupid stupid.
That point still stands. There are valid issues to discuss here and I would really like those discussions to continue, so lets not get in the way of them with personal comments and name calling. I'm sure that it doesn't need to be emphasised that there won't be a third general warning issued here.Lets keep the discussion civil and not resort to personal attacks.
I'm guessing they'll ban baseball card packs, and pokemon card packs, etc., since you are spending money for something and you don't know what you'll get ... gambling
Nice job, idiots. If you're pro-Washington control of video games, you are stupid. Stupid stupid stupid.
Nice job, idiots. If you're pro-Washington control of video games, you are stupid. Stupid stupid stupid.
- Yoshis Island (all three and Woolly World) - the Island games have no drops, Woolly World has predetermined drops of currencyIt's a slippery slope, what is the difference between loot boxes and loot drops? What game doesn't utilize RNG loot drops in some way?
There is money involved. When you buy the game that is consideration.
If lootboxes are classified as gambling, then Diablo 3 would be gambling too and any game that you pay and has RNG would be gambling as well.
Its easy. Do you have the opportunity to pay money to pull the slot machine? Then its gambling.
See how easy that is?
At the time of purchase, you know exactly what you are getting. The problem is giving real money for a random outcome. If you know exactly what you are getting, there is no gambling. From that point on there is no difference between if you bought the item or got it in game. There could still be legal issues after the sale, but it wouldn't be gambling. For example, the gaming company could manipulate the cost of items so they could buy low and sell high with real money to make a profit.There are many edge cases to think about, like the real money auction house that used to exist in Diablo, or paying for items that have a chance to increase or decrease in value on the steam marketplace
Why is RNG attached to this process at all? Real money shouldn't be part of gameplay. If the game wants to offer gold for real money, then make it a fixed exchange rate that is known at the time of purchase. There is no reason to make that random.There's also systems like the World of Warcraft auction house which has for sale fortune card items that give gold based on RNG, which can in turn be sold for subscription tokens that have real money value.
Loot boxes are more like buying a pack of sports cards, where you get a bunch of common cards, but there is also that chance you may get a star player or a coveted rookie card.
I don't like what EA did with SWBF II, but I say we let the consumer decide.
As long as you cannot pay for rng loot, it is not gambling though. If it has a one-time price of admission (or only non-consumable additional items) it is not gambling.
I really wish people would stop using cards as an analogy. Cards can be traded and some could potentially be worth money. Loot boxes hold no value and are often just to mask poor game design.
I really wish people would stop using cards as an analogy. Cards can be traded and some could potentially be worth money. Loot boxes hold no value and are often just to mask poor game design.
Gambling must have these three things: consideration, an element of chance, and a prize of (real world) value. If whatever activity in question doesn't have all three of these things, its not gambling.
As you've said, lootboxes dont have real world value so it doesn't meet the three criteria to be classified as gambling.
Baseball cards, on the other hand, it can be argued do have real world value and therefore gambling (its not, because it's a sale of goods, just like loot boxes).
Gambling must have these three things: consideration, an element of chance, and a prize of (real world) value. If whatever activity in question doesn't have all three of these things, its not gambling.
As you've said, lootboxes dont have real world value so it doesn't meet the three criteria to be classified as gambling.
Baseball cards, on the other hand, it can be argued do have real world value and therefore gambling (its not, because it's a sale of goods, just like loot boxes).
Poor defense that needs to stop. You're utilizing artificial definitions to exclude loot-boxes from the definition of gambling when its clear that the mechanism itself that is designed to prey on addictive seretonin reinforcement is the real key to what should and should not be defined as gambling. Furthermore, even by the rules of your lame defense, the game's built-in economy qualifies as "items of value". Whether or not they have value in the real world is irrelevant. These game mechanisms are predatory and akin to gambling. Wishing it otherwise doesnt make it so.