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Let's talk about a small scene from Raimi's Spider-Man 2...

...and how such a short interaction can communicate volumes to an audience about who the character is.

At the beginning of Raimi's film, we have a pretty insignificant scene where Mary Jane and Harry come over to Aunt May's to celebrate Peter's birthday with a quaint dinner catch up. After MJ and Harry leave, we get a scene that runs less than a minute, where Peter finds out Aunt May is late on her mortgage payments, before she tries to give him $20 dollars for his birthday. And in that moment you see Peter and May's reactions follow. Aunt May's desperate 'Yes you can. You can take this money from me. And don't you dare leave it behind.'

Because of course, it implies that this broke-ass Peter Parker always leaves the money that she tries to give him behind, despite badly needing it, because his sense of responsibility always sees him putting others before himself. This is a great and logical place/reminder to start Peter's arc from in the second film. And the performances really sell it.



Homecoming spoilers below.


After watching Spider-Man: Homecoming, with its incredibly shallow development of Peter Parker as a kid who goes from Avengers groupie who wants to be part of the band, to a kid who sort-of learns to be independent and rely on himself, but never in a way that isn't directly spoken out loud to the audience and telegraphed by the (six?) writers. Basically, you have a 2 hour movie that still can't clearly show the character arc of its hero without announcing it.

Watching Homecoming really reinforced my appreciation of not just the earnest, emotionally-honest, nature of Raimi's Spider-man, but of how tightly woven and smartly built Peter Parker's character development is.
 

Platy

Member
While Raimi movies have serious problem in the Spider-Man department (the lack fo quips is insane), they NAIL peter parker perfectly
 
That's actually one of my favorite scenes in the movie. I always get a little choked up watching it. Really good performance by Rosemary Harris.
 

Glass

Member
Yeah, watched this exact scene on YouTube a few days ago and forgot what a gut punch it was out of nowhere. Loved Homecoming, has me buying Spider-man comics once again, but it didn't elicit an emotion in me anywhere near as strongly as the scene in question.

Edit: Scene on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjokjB5VGjg
 
Plenty of small moments like this in the Raimi films. This one hit me hard because I lived that scene plenty of times with my mom a few years ago. We've all been Peter at some point in our lives I guess.

I also love the scene where his neighbor brings him cake. Just a lovely, awkward and funny moment. Raimi da god, he's too good for cinematic universes but please, give him Flash.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
...and how such a short interaction can communicate volumes to an audience about who the character is.

At the beginning of Raimi's film, we have a pretty insignificant scene where Mary Jane and Harry come over to Aunt May's to celebrate Peter's birthday with a quaint dinner catch up. After MJ and Harry leave, we get a scene that runs less than a minute, where Peter finds out Aunt May is late on her mortgage payments, before she tries to give him $20 dollars for his birthday. And in that moment you see Peter and May's reactions follow. Aunt May's desperate 'Yes you can. You can take this money from me. And don't you dare leave it behind.'

Because of course, it implies that this broke-ass Peter Parker always leaves the money that she tries to give him behind, despite badly needing it, because his sense of responsibility always sees him putting others before himself. This is a great and logical place/reminder to start Peter's arc from in the second film. And the performances really sell it.



Homecoming spoilers below.


After watching Spider-Man: Homecoming, with its incredibly shallow development of Peter Parker as a kid who goes from Avengers groupie who wants to be part of the band, to a kid who sort-of learns to be independent and rely on himself, but never in a way that isn't directly spoken out loud to the audience and telegraphed by the (six?) writers. Basically, you have a 2 hour movie that still can't clearly show the character arc of its hero without announcing it.

Watching Homecoming really reinforced my appreciation of not just the earnest, emotionally-honest, nature of Raimi's Spider-man, but of how tightly woven and smartly built Peter Parker's character development is.

I'm sorry I can't hear you over the orthogonal decision to make Aunt May a sexy Italian milf.
 

J_Viper

Member
I've always loved the scenes between Tobey and Rosemary.

There are even some great moments between them in SM3. The scene where Peter tells her Spider-Man killed Uncle Ben's killer was heavy.

I mean the Raimi movies are still GOAT
Yep.

Homecoming was a great time. Hell, I have the 4K steelbook pre-ordered already, but it doesn't touch the first two.
 
Homecoming was fun but it felt like it had barebones character depth to it. Even with all that high school stuff the characters end up feeling flimsy

Raimi still got the GOAT spidey movies.

Aunt May/Peter dynamic was so good in that trilogy. Gotta be the superhero with the most heart this century.
 
the scene with the neighbor girl is the really puzzling one. at least, i always found it puzzling.

That's actually my absolute favourite scene from Spider-Man 2.

Right after Peter recognises that he fails to save somebody from the burning building, and we get him staring out that window, asking 'Am I not supposed to have what I want? What I need? What am I supposed to do?

Then the universe throws him a bone. It's just a piece of chocolate cake and milk that could mean nothing to anybody else, but at this moment, somebody offering the smallest kindness to Peter means the absolute world to him. That scene hits me like no other.
 

Lifeline

Member
This is exactly what I've I'm talking about when I say I'm disappointed with homecoming. Actual character development, actual stakes and the people all feel real instead of joke set peices. Homecoming misses what made people fall in love with the Spider-Man movies in the first place.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
Nah lets talk about the horror scene where Doc Ock's tentacles kill all the doctors. Now that is the stand out scene in the film.
 

BadAss2961

Member
I can imagine it.

Having a Spider-Man of its own, I always figured the MCU jank and shallowness would be on clear display with direct comparisons to the Raimi trilogy.
 

beelzebozo

Jealous Bastard
That's actually my absolute favourite scene from Spider-Man 2.

Right after Peter recognises that he fails to save somebody from the burning building, and we get him staring out that window, asking 'Am I not supposed to have what I want? What I need? What am I supposed to do?

Then the universe throws him a bone. It's just a piece of chocolate cake and milk that could mean nothing to anybody else, but at this moment, somebody offering the smallest kindness to Peter means the absolute world to him. That scene hits me like no other.

good read. i haven't seen it in years, so i couldn't remember how it was placed. it's a fairly unconventional scene which really distinguishes the movie from a more standard heroic outing; at the time i think i couldn't fathom that the movie would briefly introduce us to this person strictly for a brief character moment with peter then send them away the rest of the film. it's kind of an art house move in a spiderman movie.

which i agree is cool
 
the scene with the neighbor girl is the really puzzling one. at least, i always found it puzzling.

His neighbor in the apartment? Those are some of the best scenes in 2 & 3, they're just these nice little interactions that bubble up and hint at a story.

The Raimi movies (yes, even 3, which is much better than people who were mad at it for being overtly campier give it credit for) are full of intelligent characterization, and it's a shame that it's the shallow spectacle, not the style and writing, that future comic book movie creators chose to copy from them.
 
Raimi's "Spider-Man" was an examination of what it was like to be in the lower middle class. It highlighted the brutal truth that there are people born with great gifts who will never get to reach their fullest potential because they were born in poverty.

While Disney's "Spider-Man Homecoming" completely whitewashed all of the theme's of income inequality and in some ways put forth a very pro-capitalist message. Which by itself isn't a bad thing, but compared to Raimi films, it's very jarring.
 

zeemumu

Member
Can we talk about why MJ broke up with Peter in Spider-Man 3? Because Harry threatened to kill him? Did she forget that Peter's Spider-Man and could handle him? Or that Peter had already beaten him once with little effort? What would have been the issue with MJ telling Peter that Harry blackmailed her into doing it under the threat of his death? It's not like he had a sniper trained on Peter at the time. And even if he did, his Spider Sense would probably notify him the moment Harry squeezed the trigger.

On top of that, like 10 minutes later Peter finds out that Harry was behind it anyway and goes to beat the crap out of him regardless, making the blackmail effectively pointless from MJ's end.
 
So with Homecoming, the producers kept citing John Hughes and his films as an influence in terms of tone and development and while I saw hints of it, it came nowhere close to capturing what makes a John Hughes film a John Hughes film and Sculli sums it up nicely.

In the scenes described above, the characters are interacting with one another and giving depth to their characters because the scene has room to breathe. I was hoping for all of that with Peter and his high school classmates in homecoming but never got it.

Again, I am head over heels about Homecoming as well but there was so much opportunity to see Peter develop in school and not in the streets. While I think Raimi got Peter right, I think Homecoming does everything else much better, including the world around Peter.

Also, I am sorry, while Aunt May was well writen in Raimi movies, I thought Rosemary's performance were atrocious. She looked and sounded like she was reading off a cue card the entire time.
 

WillyFive

Member
I liked that Raimi's movies were about constant sacrifice. Homecoming tried to do it as well during the Homecoming dance, but logically it didn't make a lot of sense for Peter to do things that way; the sacrifice felt forced.
 

neojubei

Will drop pants for Sony.
Hey OP Give this spider-man/peter parker a chance. The scene you were referring to was in Spider-man 2, maybe we will see more of Parker's character in Spider-man 2 from Marvel. You cannot put everything in one movie. Let him enjoy being Spider-man for movie 1 and depressed parker in spider-man 2.
 
Can we talk about why MJ broke up with Peter in Spider-Man 3? Because Harry threatened to kill him? Did she forget that Peter's Spider-Man and could handle him? Or that Peter had already beaten him once with little effort? What would have been the issue with MJ telling Peter that Harry blackmailed her into doing it under the threat of his death? It's not like he had a sniper trained on Peter at the time. And even if he did, his Spider Sense would probably notify him the moment Harry squeezed the trigger.

On top of that, like 10 minutes later Peter finds out that Harry was behind it anyway and goes to beat the crap out of him regardless, making the blackmail effectively pointless from MJ's end.

I think it was basically her trying to protect Peter from having to be in a situation where he could get killed, not to mention the none too subtle implication he may have hurt her, as well. It's the weakest plot point in the movie, don't get me wrong, but it's more that there needed to be a line or two than that the idea, itself, was bad.

Wait, no, deux ex machina butler was the worst plot point.
 

Prompto

Banned
Man Spider-Man 2 is so good. It's filled with little scenes like that

Hopefully the sequel to Homecoming nails it
 

BruceCLea

Banned
Nearly all the Marvel movies lack emotional impact. Highly entertaining but forgettable.
Logan is the most recent exception.
 

Currygan

at last, for christ's sake
Raimi's Spiderman movies have tremendous heart. It's one of the things that made me put S2 at the top of the superhero movie list, and it's still there
 

Anth0ny

Member
Spidey 1 and 2 are full of these little moments and it's a large reason why those films still hold up so well and even today's superhero movies can't compare.
 
Harry Osbourne was low tier trash in Spiderman 2. They gave that character no grey area. Just kept losing his mind and making leaps of logic to spit out his venom for Spiderman.
 

ItIsOkBro

Member
Hey OP Give this spider-man/peter parker a chance. The scene you were referring to was in Spider-man 2, maybe we will see more of Parker's character in Spider-man 2 from Marvel. You cannot put everything in one movie. Let him enjoy being Spider-man for movie 1 and depressed parker in spider-man 2.
well, spider-man 2 works in large part because of what was set up in spider-man 1.
 

Alienous

Member
Raimi's Spider-Man nailed a lot of that. Some of my favorite scenes in any superhero movie are the ones with Peter, his landlord and his landlord's daughter. They're minor characters but they serve to highlight Peter as a nice guy.

Then you see Homecoming with the sandwich dude and it doesn't compare. They should have emphasized Peter as this person whose thinking about himself last - it's a really endearing character trait.
 

Jarmel

Banned
I feel like a lot of Peter's characterization got cut in Homecoming. There isn't any guilt/responsibility to his character and he's not exactly suffering much on other fronts.
 
Best scene from spider man 2 was the *there's a hero in all of us...let's us hold on for that one second longer* speech by aunt may. I don't think Tomei's aunt may will be allowed that kind of gravitas because they never had spider man's origin story in the MCU.
 

chaislip3

Member
Raindrops keep falling on my head

Kw7kosO.jpg


Echoing what others have said, Spidey 1 and 2 just have so much heart in them. They're timeless.
 

Renekton

Member
Two things about MCU Spider-Man were a bit weird:

• The catalyst for returning to his heroic roots was discovering Vulture's identity by accident.

• The crimes committed here are mostly by an underdog versus the government + rich 1%. The events of civilian collateral damage with these weapons were caused by Peter himself.
 

jwk94

Member
Raimi's "Spider-Man" was an examination of what it was like to be in the lower middle class. It highlighted the brutal truth that there are people born with great gifts who will never get to reach their fullest potential because they were born in poverty.

While Disney's "Spider-Man Homecoming" completely whitewashed all of the theme's of income inequality and in some ways put forth a very pro-capitalist message. Which by itself isn't a bad thing, but compared to Raimi films, it's very jarring.

Huh, care to go into more detail?
 

WillyFive

Member
Huh, care to go into more detail?

I'm guessing it's that in Spider-Man 1, the rich guy (Osborn) was the villain and the poor guy (Ben) was the mentor. In Homecoming, the rich guy (Stark) was the mentor and the poor guy (Vulture) was the villain.
 

Alienous

Member
Two things about MCU Spider-Man were a bit weird:

• The catalyst for returning to his heroic roots was discovering Vulture's identity by accident.

• The crimes committed here are mostly by an underdog versus the government + rich 1%. The events of civilian collateral damage with these weapons were caused by Peter himself.

Those made sense.
He knew then that Tony Stark was trying to take care of the situation, and he overextended on the boat and couldn't predict the FBI distraction. It was stupid though.

My major complaint was that
he wasn't distraught at his fuck-ups. He even tries to place the blame on Tony. That boat set-piece should have ended with his head in his hands. He should have been pissed at himself for what happened.
 
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