Support NeoGAF

[Futurevoid]

Just brought a 65KS8000 on 12/29/2016 at Best Buy...now I feel used and empty....

Your within the 15 day return window.

 

[Vegetable Lasagna]

25ms is my threshold but hoping 27.5ms will be fine, I didn't like the 34ms the c6 I previously had.

lol what? We're not talking about a tv with 45+ms input lag where you're going to start noticing an additional 2ms response time. I just don't believe any of you can tell the difference of + or - 2ms in the 20-30ms range. I bet a lot of people wouldn't have even noticed the input lag being an issue pre-update if it hadn't been a hot topic the last month or so.

I think you should just stick to gaming on a monitor. You're either a freak and can tell minute differences in performance or your brain just can't get beyond the numbers on a piece of paper. This improvement is ridiculously good. The B6 is pretty much the best all around tv for gaming, tv, blu-rays etc. The picture is pretty much the best around and now it's competing with the the KS8000 for gaming. You're crazy lol.

Anyway, I usually use my Alienware monitor for FPS/Fighting, but the Xbox/PC is going permanently to the B6 now. I'll move the monitor and PS4 to my desk for fighting games, but I'm playing them less and less these days anyway. Props to LG. Super excited to get home and install the update.

p.s. you're crazy

p.p.s. still crazy

 

[holygeesus]

So these sets aren't great as part of an HTC setup?

What?

So why would anyone use PC mode (i.e.4:4:4:4) with the results showing lag over 60ms? 4K @ 70ms!? Surely the image quality isn't improved enough to justify doubling the lag?

lol what? We're not talking about a tv with 45+ms input lag where you're going to start noticing an additional 2ms response time. I just don't believe any of you can tell the difference of + or - 2ms in the 20-30ms range. I bet a lot of people wouldn't have even noticed the input lag being an issue if it hadn't been a hot topic the last month or so.

I think you should just stick to gaming on a monitor. You're either a freak and can tell minute differences in performance or your brain just can't get beyond the numbers on a piece of paper. This improvement is ridiculously good. The B6 is pretty much the best all around tv for gaming, tv, blu-rays etc. The picture is pretty much the best around and now it's competing with the the KS8000 for gaming. You're crazy lol.

Anyway, I usually use my Alienware monitor for FPS/Fighting, but the Xbox/PC is going permanently the B6 now. I'll move the monitor and PS4 to my desk for fighting games, but I'm playing them less and these days anyway. Props to LG. Super excited to get home and install the update.

p.s. you're crazy

p.p.s. still crazy

He owns a sensor that measures lag, which can't be a good idea. I'd rather not know the figures.

 

[Marmelade]

I do my best not to be a snob about these things because I like to be as inclusive as possible when it comes to games and tech, but I was able to personally tell that the input lag on the B6 was too high. I understand that everyone is different when it comes to their sensitivities to things (30fps vs 60fps for example) so I never once criticized the people that said it was fine. as soon as I got rid of my ST60 and switched to the B6, input lag was noticeable to me. Glad the update is finally here.

That's weird..
The ST60 was known for its high input lag (I have one and can definitely feel it)
It should have been lower on the B6 even pre-update

 

[FalsettoVibe]

Keeps getting better. LG says 2016 OLEDs will get HLG update this year.

Somewhere at the 3:40 mark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imP4WlXq53Y&feature=youtu.be&t=3m41s

 

[JudgmentJay]

Pretty sure you want Normal whether you're in HDR or not. Wide isn't what it seems to be and I think Chad B. has updated his calibration specs regarding that.

Luckily it isn't locked to Wide in HDR Game mode apparently as it is in standard Game mode.

Interesting. That's weird that it isn't locked in HDR game mode but is in normal game mode. Oversight maybe?

 

[ACH1LL3US]

lol what? We're not talking about a tv with 45+ms input lag where you're going to start noticing an additional 2ms response time. I just don't believe any of you can tell the difference of + or - 2ms in the 20-30ms range. I bet a lot of people wouldn't have even noticed the input lag being an issue if it hadn't been a hot topic the last month or so.

I think you should just stick to gaming on a monitor. You're either a freak and can tell minute differences in performance or your brain just can't get beyond the numbers on a piece of paper. This improvement is ridiculously good. The B6 is pretty much the best all around tv for gaming, tv, blu-rays etc. The picture is pretty much the best around and now it's competing with the the KS8000 for gaming. You're crazy lol.

Anyway, I usually use my Alienware monitor for FPS/Fighting, but the Xbox/PC is going permanently the B6 now. I'll move the monitor and PS4 to my desk for fighting games, but I'm playing them less and these days anyway. Props to LG. Super excited to get home and install the update.

p.s. you're crazy

p.p.s. still crazy

I just bought a 65b6 today, I don't expect to tell. A difference from the ks8500 and the b6 for lag.

Maybe I am crazy... or maybe I can feel a difference from 23ms to 34ms and higher. I really can't tell much from the lowest monitor I have of 9.7ms and 23ms though...

 

[prodystopian]

Damn, 28 ms is amazing.
Very surprising to me, considering that the B6 is supposed to have a lower spec SOC than the rest of the 2016 models.


There should be if you game on the PC.

but for a console, is that saying that you can only play HDR @ 4k? It didn't look like there was a setting for HDR@1080p in their testing.

 

[New002]

So have you updated yours to the new firmware?

I returned a c6 last week due to the lag and I also didn't like the curve.

I have been using my Pioneer Kuro for gaming in the meantime and it's lag feels less then the c6 which my Leo bodnar showed as 34ms for the middle bar and 39ms for the bottom bar. The Kuro shows 40ms for all three bars.

Just bought the 65b6 due to the lower lag, can't wait to use it now with the lower lag.

I see a lot of people worry about image retention with the pleads and I haven't had any issues with that. Nor did I with the Kuro.

Disclaimer: I own a C6

You're talking about less than half a frame of input lag difference @ 60fps between the C6 and b6 so I wouldn't expect an earth shattering difference between the two. But regardless since you weren't feeling the curved it's a solid move anyways!

That fact that LG not only came through for the b6, but bested the numbers for the c6 and e6 is hilariously aweosme to me. I know b6 owners were feeling the pain so this is great news for them!

 

[Afrikan]

Keeps getting better. LG says 2016 OLEDs will get HLG update this year.

Somewhere at the 3:40 mark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imP4WlXq53Y&feature=youtu.be&t=3m41s

you know what, LG is really winning me over with their support of previous released TVs.

I mean didn't they also improve input lag for 2015 TVs? or at least add HDR in gamemode?

As a company, they have moved up on my list for electronic products to look out for.

I love my C6. Sold my cousin on a 65" C6, and family friend on a 55" C6. They love them.

 

[Clipjoint]

Somewhat off topic but what settings are you guys using to calibrate the B6? I haven't been able to get mine just right yet.

 

[b0bbyJ03]

That's weird..
The ST60 was known for its high input lag (I have one and can definitely feel it)
It should have been lower on the B6 even pre-update

my bad, meant s60. I had an ST50 as my home theater TV and an s60 in my living room. I don't remember the lag on the s60 but I can tell you that it felt lower to me than the B6.

 

[Hammer24]

Somewhat off topic but what settings are you guys using to calibrate the B6? I haven't been able to get mine just right yet.

Post #93 in the TV topic.

 

[Yappadappadu]

but for a console, is that saying that you can only play HDR @ 4k? It didn't look like there was a setting for HDR@1080p in their testing.

I almost forgot that the normal PS4 received a HDR FW upgrade, so you're right that there actually are consoles that can do 1080p/720p with HDR.
Not sure about the Xbox One S.

EDIT:

Checked with a friend who has a Xbox One S and 1080p+HDR is possible on that one as well.

 

[wumster3000]

By fixing a broken feature on the product they released? They sure are lol.

Wut?

 

[NYR]

Don't do it. You're going to have a really bad time with that extra 2ms. Unplayable!

This read like a Donald Trump tweet to me, lol.

 

[darkazcura]

Looks great! I'd love for them to test 1080p + HDR also though. Still on the original PS4 and not sure if I will upgrade any time soon.

 

[NYR]

25ms is my threshold but hoping 27.5ms will be fine, I didn't like the 34ms the c6 I previously had.

33.367 milliseconds — the amount of time one frame lasts in 29.97 fps video.
16.67 milliseconds — the amount of time one frame lasts in 60 fps video.

2 ms isn't even close to a loss of ONE frame of slow data in a 30 FPS game, it is pointless to debate this, you're talking about a 6% difference in something that is only noticeable when you hit gaps of 30+ ms.

On a 60 FPS game, your 2 ms is still a 12% difference which still doesn't result is a full frame win or loss. I don't think any human would be able to tell the difference to be honest.

 

[vehn]

are the 2015 LG sets affected by this at all? I played FF15 for like 40 hours in HDR, didn't really notice that much of an input lag.

 

[AtomicShroom]

I'm really saddened that this is 2017 and we still don't have a display technology that can rival the input latency of TVs from the goddamn 1940's. I mean, sure, the image quality has never been higher, but why is input latency so goddamn hard to resolve and bring down to CRT levels? It's like they're not putting any effort into it or don't consider it as an important goal to strive for at all.

I'm pretty sure there would be a really decent market for a LCD TV advertised as having CRT levels of input lag...

 

[LilJoka]

No I don't think I can notice 2ms difference, but I can notice the difference from 23ms to 34ms (ks8500 to c6 ).

I am weird :/ I wish I couldn't feel the difference.

In other news I have grown to despise curve tvs...

I feel sorry for you.
I play on an 8 year old Kuro, games like CS GO and Overwatch, probably over 40ms lag with M&K.

 

[datamage]

I just bought a 65b6 today, I don't expect to tell. A difference from the ks8500 and the b6 for lag.

Maybe I am crazy... or maybe I can feel a difference from 23ms to 34ms and higher. I really can't tell much from the lowest monitor I have of 9.7ms and 23ms though...

I think everyone just has their threshold, and you found yours. Nothing crazy about that. I think mine is going past ~45ms or so.

 

[MakotoYuki]

Any news about the B6 update in Europe?

 

[NYR]

are the 2015 LG sets affected by this at all? I played FF15 for like 40 hours in HDR, didn't really notice that much of an input lag.

These models were just updated yesterday, alongside the B6:

55UH7500-UA

60UH7500-UA

65UH7500-UA

55UH7700-UB

60UH7700-UB

These models were updated previously in December:

OLED65G6P-U

OLED77G6P-U

OLED65E6P-U

OLED55E6P-U

OLED65C6P-U

OLED55C6P-U

86UH9500-UA

65UH9500-UA

75UH8500-UD

65UH8500-UA

60UH8500-UA

55UH8500-UA

65UH7500-UA

60UH7500-UA

55UH7500-UA

75UH6550-UB

65UH6550-UB

60UH6550-UB

55UH6550-UB

49UH6500-UB

43UH6500-UB

58UH6300-UA

 

[Afrikan]

I'm really saddened that this is 2017 and we still don't have a display technology that can rival the input latency of TVs from the goddamn 1940's. I mean, sure, the image quality has never been higher, but why is input latency so goddamn hard to resolve and bring down to CRT levels? It's like they're not putting any effort into it or don't consider it as an important goal to strive for at all.

I'm pretty sure there would be a really decent market for a LCD TV advertised as having CRT levels of input lag...

I always just figured it had to do with sacrifice to make T.V.s slimmer.

same with Black levels.

Thank God for LG not giving up.

 

[Josh378]

Your within the 15 day return window.

True, but at the time I brought the KS800, the B6P was only $2999 and would have jumped on it but I didn't due to the input lag for my gaming setup. Now it's back at $4000, and out of my price range again

 

[AtomicShroom]

I always just figured it had to do with sacrifice to make T.V.s slimmer.

same with Black levels.

Thank God for LG not giving up.

Well, it does in part. That and cost, weight, image sharpness, perfect geometry, etc. LCD does have its advantages.

But I've never felt any input lag on my portable game consoles, which also use LCD screens, and there's LCD computer monitors with amazingly low input latency, so the LCD tech in itself can't be the sole culprit of the input lag in modern TVs, can it? Clearly it has something to do with how the signal is processed by the TVs themselves, and I'm assuming they do more post-processing with it (even with Game Mode on) than a 3DS does, for example? Or maybe it has something to do with the size of TVs versus monitors and portables? I wish someone with that kind of technical knowledge could chime in...

 

[Kyoufu]

This read like a Donald Trump tweet to me, lol.

SAD!

 

[velociraptor]

Took it from around ~50ms to around ~30ms.

Wow that's impressive.

Now just gotta convince the family to return the 65KS8000 for the 65 B6 OLED, which I presume is a superior TV in all other respects now.

 

[ACH1LL3US]

I feel sorry for you.
I play on an 8 year old Kuro, games like CS GO and Overwatch, probably over 40ms lag with M&K.

I have a Kuro as well and the 40ms is for all three bars and the Leo bodnar reads plasma differently so I think 40ms from what I have seen around 30ms.

 

[b0bbyJ03]

Well, it does in part. That and cost, weight, image sharpness, perfect geometry, etc. LCD does have its advantages.

But I've never felt any input lag on my portable game consoles, which also use LCD screens, and there's LCD computer monitors with amazingly low input latency, so the LCD tech in itself can't be the sole culprit of the input lag in modern TVs, can it? Clearly it has something to do with how the signal is processed by the TVs themselves, and I'm assuming they do more post-processing with it (even with Game Mode on) than a 3DS does, for example? Or maybe it has something to do with the size of TVs versus monitors and portables? I wish someone with that kind of technical knowledge could chime in...

It's definitely not the LCD tech itself. BenQ sells professional gaming monitors that they claim have 0ms input lag. its the guts of the display and how it processes the picture. I think more of the population prioritizes picture quality, which requires processing, over input lag. For those that don't there are still options, but not in the big screen variety.

 

[Rip]

Is the b6 update able to be downloaded on the tv yet or is the only way to update by USB stick?

 

[Lexxism]

Is the b6 update able to be downloaded on the tv yet or is the only way to update by USB stick?

The firmware update was yesterday. I should expect a rollout today but I didn't wait and just downloaded it from their site.

 

[wumster3000]

The firmware update was yesterday. I should expect a rollout today but I didn't wait and just downloaded it from their site.

I did this and I my TV can't find the update on my USB. Maybe I am doing it wrong. Are there any special steps? I just downloaded the update, plugged the USB stick in and went to the stick in my settings. All it's saying is pictures and music.

Edit:

Reading the PDF now on how to install.

 

[holygeesus]

I did this and I my TV can't find the update on my USB. Maybe I am doing it wrong. Are there any special steps? I just downloaded the update, plugged the USB stick in and went to the stick in my settings. All it's saying is pictures and music.

Edit:

Reading the PDF now on how to install.

It's not out here in the UK yet but make sure you use the USB port on the back. That was the only way I could trigger it last time I updated.

 

[Stormhammer]

I did this and I my TV can't find the update on my USB. Maybe I am doing it wrong. Are there any special steps? I just downloaded the update, plugged the USB stick in and went to the stick in my settings. All it's saying is pictures and music.

Edit:

Reading the PDF now on how to install.

You have to make a folder named LG_DTV and install the firmware file in that folder, then plug it into the TV. It should recognize it from there and prompt the install

 

[Futurevoid]

Is the b6 update able to be downloaded on the tv yet or is the only way to update by USB stick?

Only on the site. I would just grab it there if you really want it. They can take up to week to start rolling out in mass.

 

[NYR]

Wow that's impressive.

Now just gotta convince the family to return the 65KS8000 for the 65 B6 OLED, which I presume is a superior TV in all other respects now.

Keep in mind my previous post of ~30ms was for the E6, the B6 update from yesterday actually yields even better numbers - 28.5 ms in HDR Game Mode.

And IMO, yes, OLED is the way to go, the only downside on an OLED, especially these 2016 models, is the brightness levels compared to a standard LCD, but it isn't anything to lose sleep over, the B6/C6/E6 will go down as some of the best TVs ever made.

 

[Clipjoint]

Post #93 in the TV topic.

Thank you! This is super helpful.

 

[wumster3000]

You have to make a folder named LG_DTV and install the firmware file in that folder, then plug it into the TV. It should recognize it from there and prompt the install

Thanks. Read it in the PDF and got it. It was like plug n play.

Thanks Gaf for recommending this TV. I'm loving my B6 even more now. I paid $2100 for my 65 inch and I just saw that it went up to $3999 for some strange reason. I hate that. I wonder if it's because of the new update lowering the response time significantly.

 

[boredandlazy]

Is there not a 1080p HDR mode? I feel like I'm missing something.

I don't have the figure of course but I'm playing The Last Guardian in 1080p mode with HDR and immediately noticed improvement after the patch on my E6.

Also for the guy picky with input lag... I'm really picky with lag too and I've jumped from a 21-22ms Sony W900a to a 34ms E6. And I've barely skipped a beat.

 

[NYR]

I'm loving my B6 even more now. I paid $2100 for my 65 inch and I just saw that it went up to $3999 for some strange reason. I hate that. I wonder if it's because of the new update lowering the response time significantly.

Nah, they know what's up, they know the 2017 release was going to spur demand on the 2016 models now, someone posted earlier in the TV thread that E6 demand is also up, sold out for 2 straight shipments.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=227724967&postcount=1674

 

[Vegetable Lasagna]

Nah, they know what's up, they know the 2017 release was going to spur demand on the 2016 models now, someone posted earlier in the TV thread that E6 demand is also up, sold out for 2 straight shipments.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=227724967&postcount=1674

Pretty much this. Thinking about it more... The differences in the 2017 models are nice, but aren't going to make the 2016 lineup any less attractive for most consumers either. Probably going to keep the 2016 model prices higher than they should be for 3/4ths of the year.

 

[Futurevoid]

Pretty much this. Thinking about it more... The differences in the 2007 models are nice, but aren't going to make the 2016 lineup any less attractive for most consumers either. Probably going to keep the 2016 model prices higher than they should be for 3/4ths of the year.

I'd say the iterative nature of the 2017 models make the 2016 units even more appealing. I don't think they'll keep the prices high for quite that long but once they do, I expect to see the 2016 models really start to move like crazy at discounted prices. The B6 in particular will be quite the steal.

I'm really curious to see how much they've improved the motion handling on the new sets. We haven't gotten alot from CES in that regard.

 

[SOLDIER]

It is most likely a timing thing. If everything is powering on together it's likely screwing up the handshakes. So many of the issues people are having are due to HDMI handshake issues and often HDCP 2.2 problems. It is best if things power up in a sequence, which is likely TV - AVR - device. When I program universal remotes, I always insert delays in between the devices coming online. What's best is dependent on your setup so you'll have to play with it.

Thing is, while my Harmony One can switch to the correct inputs without issue, it seems I can't get ARC to work between my receiver and TV unless I enable the HDCP link between the two.

Also for clarification, what exactly do I lose in PQ when using Game Mode? I was always under the impression you'd lose some quality as a sacrifice, but from what I've seen and the comments here, that isn't true at all and you're only losing the option for some of the optional post-processing effects.

That said, I'm still curious what the ideal settings are in Game Mode.

 

[ACH1LL3US]

I don't have the figure of course but I'm playing The Last Guardian in 1080p mode with HDR and immediately noticed improvement after the patch on my E6.

Also for the guy picky with input lag... I'm really picky with lag too and I've jumped from a 21-22ms Sony W900a to a 34ms E6. And I've barely skipped a beat.

Yea I am that guy :/ a weirdo I am

 

[prodystopian]

I don't have the figure of course but I'm playing The Last Guardian in 1080p mode with HDR and immediately noticed improvement after the patch on my E6.

Also for the guy picky with input lag... I'm really picky with lag too and I've jumped from a 21-22ms Sony W900a to a 34ms E6. And I've barely skipped a beat.

Thanks for answering. Weird they didn't test that mode, but it seems like other than 4:4:4, the input lag is solid.

*waits for sale*

 

[velociraptor]

Keep in mind my previous post of ~30ms was for the E6, the B6 update from yesterday actually yields even better numbers - 28.5 ms in HDR Game Mode.

And IMO, yes, OLED is the way to go, the only downside on an OLED, especially these 2016 models, is the brightness levels compared to a standard LCD, but it isn't anything to lose sleep over, the B6/C6/E6 will go down as some of the best TVs ever made.

The thing that I hate about normal LED TVs is the horrible clouding and backlight bleed. Every panel suffers from it. I've already returned and replaced one KS8000 but if I do it again I'm sure I'll have the same issue. The other issue is the picture quality doesn't even match my 8 year old Panasonic plasma. Which is abysmal really. How can a 2016 TV fail to match the image quality of an old plasma? 4K content (and 1080p blurays) looks fantastic on the KS8000 though. But everything else doesn't look too good IMO.

 

[Futurevoid]

The thing that I hate about normal LED TVs is the horrible clouding and backlight bleed. Every panel suffers from it. I've already returned and replaced one KS8000 but if I do it again I'm sure I'll have the same issue. The other issue is the picture quality doesn't even match my 8 year old Panasonic plasma. Which is abysmal really. How can a 2016 TV fail to match the image quality of an old plasma? 4K content (and 1080p blurays) looks fantastic on the KS8000 though. But everything else doesn't look too good IMO.

I returned my KS8000 for the B6 for that very reason. My panel had zero light bleed but plenty of clouding/blooming.

 

[CLW]

I downloaded and installed the newest firmware but I'm not seeing the HDR Game video mode when I fire up my PS4 Pro (just "regular" Game mode).

I haven't tried any games yet just messing around on the xmb. Do I need to be playing a game that utilizes HDR then look/select the new HDR Game Mode each time I play a HDR game or am I simply missing the setting?