Support NeoGAF

[ramoisdead]

Well Vic posted a tweet recently about CoH2.

It looks like tomorrow there will be an update on the status of the game and preorders will open up next week. Let's hope this actually holds up.

 

[MikeDip]

Well Vic posted a tweet recently about CoH2.

It looks like tomorrow there will be an update on the status of the game and preorders will open up next week. Let's hope this actually holds up.

Awesome!

 

[Dracandros]

Awesome indeed! The news is spreading around hopefully!

 

[LegionX]

An update has gone up on the gaijinworks site and the kickstarter

info here

http://www.gaijinworks.com/interact/showthread.php?3-Class-of-Heroes-2-Update-4-19-2013

But basically... still working on the issue, signups open next week, up for 7-10 days. digital codes will be emailed, and $2 increase for the physical copies

 

[Clov]

It's a pity that the opening will be cut initially, but I can live without it. It's good that Vic is choosing to move on from it rather than let the game sit any longer. Plus it'll be patched back in eventually, which is a plus.

It kind of sucks that there's a two dollar increase for the physical editions, but I don't think it's too big of a deal. I'm just excited that pre-orders will be opening soon!

 

[Tizoc]

Hmm so $25 for digital huh? Would be interesting if this could get a Plus discount upon release so Plussers could get it for say $20 =P

Good luck to the team and hope to see them releasing it soon.

 

[ramoisdead]

At first, I wasn't really fond of the $2 increase for the bundle but what the hey, it's just $2. I'll be ready to give Vic my monies for it. Now I gotta find a Kickstarter backer who's not interested in their KS copy...

 

[KiTA]

I think the bigger news is the confirmation of Class of Heroes 3 for 2013... or more likely 2014.

Also, heh, apparently the Japanese companies (4, apparently?) are being, er, Japanese companies in regards to the rights. Hopefully Vic remembers this when CoH3 discussions start, and he gets the go ahead with the CoH3 opening song as part of the package.

 

[Hours Left]

So the physical version won't ever have the opening because they don't want to wait for the rights to clear? :/

I think this is a very odd decision. I'd much rather wait to get a physical version that has the entire game.

 

[KiTA]

So the UMD won't have the opening because they don't want to wait for the rights to clear? :/

I think this is a very odd decision. I'd much rather wait to get a physical version that has the entire game.

I don't think they ever will get the rights to the song. It sounds like it's in ownership hell in Japan (didn't Vic mention it's technically owned by 4 different companies?) and he's basically throwing up his arms at this point.

 

[Tizoc]

So the physical version won't ever have the opening because they don't want to wait for the rights to clear? :/

I think this is a very odd decision. I'd much rather wait to get a physical version that has the entire game.

The intro cutscene might prob. not even amount to 1% of the full game experience. Assuming of course that the game would take 40-60 hours to complete.
I don't see how the intro would affect the gameplay experience.

 

[Hours Left]

I don't think they ever will get the rights to the song. It sounds like it's in ownership hell in Japan (didn't Vic mention it's technically owned by 4 different companies?) and he's basically throwing up his arms at this point.

I'd rather they then put in a different song than remove the opening entirely.

The intro cutscene might prob. not even amount to 1% of the full game experience. Assuming of course that the game would take 40-60 hours to complete.
I don't see how the intro would affect the gameplay experience.

Paying more than $10 extra for an incomplete version of the game is weird to me. I'd expect the premium version to be the best one, especially since this supposed to be so limited.

 

[Jucksalbe]

So the physical version won't ever have the opening because they don't want to wait for the rights to clear? :/

I think this is a very odd decision. I'd much rather wait to get a physical version that has the entire game.

Not on disc. But they can still patch it in, can't they?

 

[Hours Left]

Not on disc. But they can still patch it in, can't they?

Nope, Vic said only the digital version will get the opening.

 

[Jucksalbe]

Oh, missed that. Maybe they should have put that in the Kickstarter update. Can't they just send out the physical versions later and just give people the codes until this is cleared? Makes me seriously reconsider if I should go for the physical version.

 

[Tizoc]

Paying more than $10 extra for an incomplete version of the game is weird to me. I'd expect the premium version to be the best one, especially since this supposed to be so limited.

I still don't see how the lack of a 5-ish minute intro makes the game 'incomplete', mate.
EDIT: Well I get what you mean but I'm gonna give the CoH2 intro a watch later on YT. I suspect it to be very...anime generic.

 

[A Black Falcon]

Wait, the physical version will be incomplete, permanently? Why in the world buy it, then? I was probably going to, but if the physical copy is incomplete, it seems kind of pointless... I know there'll be no second run, but the digital version will exist.

 

[KiTA]

... I honestly cannot believe there are people who are worried about this. It's a 90 second long series of mostly still pictures that shows the race names and some of the NPCs of the game. You are not missing out on anything.

Here's a Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79IZTaF84LQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1JmjasbwUk

 

[Jucksalbe]

... I honestly cannot believe there are people who are worried about this. It's a 90 second long series of still pictures that shows the race names and some of the NPCs of the game. You are not missing out on anything.

It's not about not getting the game because of this, if it was I'd agree. But it's about paying an extra $10 (or in my case $20) for a version that's simply not complete.

 

[Hours Left]

I still don't see how the lack of a 5-ish minute intro makes the game 'incomplete', mate.
EDIT: Well I get what you mean but I'm gonna give the CoH2 intro a watch later on YT. I suspect it to be very...anime generic.

I know from a practical point, it's not very important. It's really more about principle, and the ability to follow through.

The whole point of the limited physical run is to be a cool collector's item and to harken back to the old WD days. It's almost like their proof of concept considering this their first "big" release. And now to learn we might get a more expensive, yet content lacking version is kind of a let down.

Vic says they might do a poll and see what everyone thinks, and if most people are cool with losing the opening, then fine, so be it. But I personally would much rather wait.

 

[KiTA]

Waiting isn't an option. He has to get the game on store shelves, so he can fund CoH 3 with it, as well as pay people's paychecks et al.

 

[Lain]

The intro could be 2 seconds long and completely shitty, it being omitted is still annoying.

 

[Jucksalbe]

They can release the digital version now and even collect the money from buyers of the physical version now (and give them the codes) and then ship the physical version at a later date when the issue is cleared (in one way or the other).

 

[foobarry81]

So, now that buyers of the physical release will get the PSN download code emailed to them, will Euro buyers get a Euro PSN code?

 

[Eusis]

I know from a practical point, it's not very important. It's really more about principle, and the ability to follow through.

The whole point of the limited physical run is to be a cool collector's item and to harken back to the old WD days. It's almost like their proof of concept considering this their first "big" release. And now to learn we might get a more expensive, yet content lacking version is kind of a let down.

Weren't people who were getting physical also getting a digital code for free? It's crappy for the physical copy (the one that'll endure past the PSN legitimately), but no one's going to be screwed out of anything, unless they have a very small memory stick. And it's not really a bad idea to either get a bigger one or at least get a Vita with decent memory.

 

[sega4ever]

I know from a practical point, it's not very important. It's really more about principle, and the ability to follow through.

The whole point of the limited physical run is to be a cool collector's item and to harken back to the old WD days. It's almost like their proof of concept considering this their first "big" release. And now to learn we might get a more expensive, yet content lacking version is kind of a let down.

Vic says they might do a poll and see what everyone thinks, and if most people are cool with losing the opening, then fine, so be it. But I personally would much rather wait.

problems and delays do harken back to the working design days.

 

[cj_iwakura]

As someone who's heard the English OP, and saved it just in case, it's more sad that they're losing all the work they put into it than that we don't get it in game.

It's not really that special, just a nicety.

 

[Ramune]

Waiting isn't an option. He has to get the game on store shelves, so he can fund CoH 3 with it, as well as pay people's paychecks et al.

Its not going to be sold in retail stores, so that wont be an issue. I say wait on the physical. Its supposed to be a relic whenever PSN stops having PSP games or shuts down for the next SEN service in the far future.

 

[Quixzlizx]

I don't care, since I'll just be playing the digital version on a Vita anyway. The physical copy is for my shelf.

 

[KiTA]

Its not going to be sold in retail stores, so that wont be an issue. I say wait on the physical. Its supposed to be a relic whenever PSN stops having PSP games or shuts down for the next SEN service in the far future.

The PSN is also a store. It has... virtual shelves.

My point stands. It's obvious he's not going to get the rights to this video/song, at least not in anything resembling a timely manner. He can't keep the entire thing on the back burner waiting for a video that is literally 0.00000% of the game's content.

 

[Raggie]

This is hardly the first time something gets cut when a game crosses borders. I'm glad it's just the opening song we are talking about here. The stuff we in Europe sometimes lose is something to be upset about. This is a non-issue. I would have watched the opening once and I can watch it from Youtube if I want. It's not going to make me enjoy the game any less, not by a long shot.

 

[boingball]

The PSN is also a store. It has... virtual shelves.

My point stands. It's obvious he's not going to get the rights to this video/song, at least not in anything resembling a timely manner. He can't keep the entire thing on the back burner waiting for a video that is literally 0.00000% of the game's content.

Release it on PSN now without the song. Once you get the song patch it in and release the UMD.

 

[A Black Falcon]

Release it on PSN now without the song. Once you get the song patch it in and release the UMD.

Yeah, that's a good idea. I don't want to buy the physical release if it's an inferior edition of the game, but that'd be a good compromise.

 

[foobarry81]

Release it on PSN now without the song. Once you get the song patch it in and release the UMD.

If they intend to release the UMD without the song, I think that means they fear the negotiations about the song may take an awful lot of time.

There is still some interest right now in another PSP UMD release. It might no longer be there if you release the UMD in one year or longer (provided it might take that long obviously).

The whole intellectual rights issue is a tricky matter in any localization from Japanese media. Several manga series haven't been completely translated into my mother tongue for example. Instead just a number of volumes (like 8 of the 21 in total) for example have been released, and nothing indicates that the next volumes will ever be released. So if you bought the first couple of volumes, you're pretty badly screwed over.

So this whole thing could take on forever, and maybe that's why they're trying for a UMD release without the song.

 

[Cheerilee]

If they intend to release the UMD without the song, I think that means they fear the negotiations about the song may take an awful lot of time.

There is still some interest right now in another PSP UMD release. It might no longer be there if you release the UMD in one year or longer (provided it might take that long obviously).

The whole intellectual rights issue is a tricky matter in any localization from Japanese media. Several manga series haven't been completely translated into my mother tongue for example. Instead just a number of volumes (like 8 of the 21 in total) for example have been released, and nothing indicates that the next volumes will ever be released. So if you bought the first couple of volumes, you're pretty badly screwed over.

So this whole thing could take on forever, and maybe that's why they're trying for a UMD release without the song.

According to the Gaijinworks forum, this rights issue will be solved in around two months time, one way or another. If Vic has to, he will just make an entirely new opening from scratch. He's probably already putting it together in his head.

Buuuut... the problem is, Vic wants to get Class of Heroes 3 out this year, before the Christmas rush even, preferably in physical form as well. For this to happen, CoH2 needs to sell well, and it needs to do it now. It can't wait two months.

After some negotiation, Sony already agreed to split up the UMDs and the download codes, that way Vic could email them as soon as the game ships, for one or two weeks worth of convenience (and to preserve the pristine shrinkwrap of the physical copy), so ideally Vic likes the idea of us buying the game now, the codes getting emailed, and then we play the digital version while we wait for the perfect physical version... but he's not confident that Sony will allow that to happen.

Sony agreed to
-customer buys game
-Sony generates the codes and gives them to Vic
-Sony prints the games and hands them to Vic
(this took convincing, because Sony wanted to put the codes inside the boxes themselves)

Sony did not agree to
-customer buys game
-Sony generates the codes and gives them to Vic
-wait two months
-Sony prints the games and hands them to Vic

Not even if Sony gets paid in advance. This is all just too unusual. Sony might prefer to have the PSP remain dead than do something so unusual. But Vic is talking to them, so maybe there's hope.

 

[A Black Falcon]

Buuuut... the problem is, Vic wants to get Class of Heroes 3 out this year, before the Christmas rush even, preferably in physical form as well. For this to happen, CoH2 needs to sell well, and it needs to do it now. It can't wait two months.

But if he's hoping for good sales (of the physical version), releasing it without the intro will make it less likely to get those sales, I'd guess... sure, many people will buy it anyway, but not everyone.

 

[Cheerilee]

But if he's hoping for good sales (of the physical version), releasing it without the intro will make it less likely to get those sales, I'd guess... sure, many people will buy it anyway, but not everyone.

Yep. If he delays the physical version, he's probably going to lose sales (some people have said as much). If he delays the entire game, he's going to lose his CoH3 launch window (and still lose CoH2 sales). If he releases a flawed physical version that can't include the patch he knows is coming, he might lose even more sales. He's stuck between a rock and a hard place. He's thinking about taking a quick poll to get some input on which poison we prefer, but even then, he might not be allowed to pick the lesser of two evils. It would really suck to find out that 99% of us support a physical-version delay, only to be told he can't do a physical-version delay.

Vic really got screwed here.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Can someone familiar with copyrights explain how a cover of a song with entirely new vocals is a problem?

 

[Wereroku]

Can someone familiar with copyrights explain how a cover of a song with entirely new vocals is a problem?

Probably the same reason Huey Lewis got paid for the ghost busters theme song. It could still be recognized as his song.

 

[DiscoJer]

I was under the impression though that you were allowed to do a cover version of a song, even if the writer didn't approve, you just had to pay royalties. At least in the US

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Act_of_1909

My guess is maybe he's worried about future repercussions if he does that, that people might refuse to work with him in the future.

But honestly I've understood the seeming obsession with opening songs. I imagine most people skip them. But even if they don't, this is a dungeon crawler. I can possibly see it in a JRPG if it ties into the story. But that's not applicable here...

 

[Raggie]

Seeing the opening on Youtube, I don't think it is even very good. It's just in-game art and video pasted together with a song. No loss there.

 

[Eusis]

Can someone familiar with copyrights explain how a cover of a song with entirely new vocals is a problem?

Contracts and the fact the base melody would still be theirs.

EDIT: Not that I'm some copyright guru or anything either, it just seems to be the way this works: use of the song may not have been explicitly highlighted in the game license, nor were covers permitted (which is what this would be), and they may be cold on giving permission even for that much.

 

[KiTA]

You can't just take a Metallica song and decide to sing it yourself, even if you sing it in Klingon just to...

... Huh. That sounds incredibly metal.

Anyway, no, you can't just redo a song and get away with it, unless you're Glee.

 

[Wereroku]

If he was just releasing the song it would not be an issue the problem is they could probably sever his license to release the game. Alternatively it would ruin his relationship for future games.

 

[t26]

So are they going to release CoH3 on PS3?

 

[KiTA]

So are they going to release CoH3 on PS3?

CoH2 and 3 both had PSP and PS3 releases.

I'd like to see him release all 3 "missing" games -- CoH2 PS3, CoH3, and CoH3 PS3 -- on the PSN, but I have no idea the financial restraints he'd be under for that. I heard a rumor that the PSP is basically free (or effectively so) to release games for nowadays, no idea if the PS3 is the same way.

 

[Raggie]

I personally prefer games of this type on handhelds. IMO they get a little tiring in long sessions but are well suited to short bursts.

Not to say I wouldn't buy a console CoH.

 

[Eusis]

CoH2 and 3 both had PSP and PS3 releases.

I'd like to see him release all 3 "missing" games -- CoH2 PS3, CoH3, and CoH3 PS3 -- on the PSN, but I have no idea the financial restraints he'd be under for that. I heard a rumor that the PSP is basically free (or effectively so) to release games for nowadays, no idea if the PS3 is the same way.

I imagine it depends on how they want to release it, I doubt Sony'd be as welcoming of a physical version even as a limited run, and they'd probably want the two bundled for retail anyway if it came. But the PS4 IS coming up, and they seem to want to be more open for that, so it wouldn't surprise me if it turned out hey were becoming way, way more loose than they were.

 

[KiTA]

I imagine it depends on how they want to release it, I doubt Sony'd be as welcoming of a physical version even as a limited run, and they'd probably want the two bundled for retail anyway if it came. But the PS4 IS coming up, and they seem to want to be more open for that, so it wouldn't surprise me if it turned out hey were becoming way, way more loose than they were.

Oh no, the PS3 versions would HAVE to be PSN. There's no doubt about that.

 

[KiTA]

Preorders were supposed to go live this week, right? Or is it next week?

edit:

We're cutting it to the wire this week, but presales will be up tomorrow or Monday. We're doing sandbox testing on the order system now.

Tomorrow (Saturday) or Monday.