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[Teeth]

Demon's Souls is no saint here either, I mean do you all even remember? 5-1 is just ambush after ambush, several tiny rats ready to instantly plague you, guys hiding inside hay ready to run behind you on a bridge while 2 more are in front of you.

World 4 has infinite respawning invisible eye laser enemies in hordes that only go away if you kill their master, and then there are the roll happy skeletons with their best friends the sting ray assholes, which by the way the lock on does no favors for you here.

World 3 is mostly ok here, but there are also ambushes from prisoners, too, like 8 at a time.

World 2 has ambushes evetywhere. Tunnels filled with 10+ enemies, dogs and fat officials, flame lizard ambushes and so on.

World 1 same shit, I mean even the first boss is a horde of enemies attached to a boss.

Point is the whole series is like this, DS2 gets flak because it's easy to blame it on B-Team, or because they did a bait and switch with the lighting or whatever other nonsense excuse that makes it convienent to exclude the rest of the series.

A lot of it is that the DS2 fight mechanics are less forgiving. The roll has less iframes by default and the distance it travels is shorter. This means that the user has to be much more precise with their rolls to dodge things. Additionally, draining stamina on blocking causes the big stagger that makes people sad (though most single enemies and bosses never take advantage of that stagger, oddly).

On top of that, backstabs don't have 1 frame startups and vacuum properties, so they aren't as powerful and reliable. Also, you aren't completely invincible during a backstab.

Next up, enemies generally have higher poise in DS2, so you can't stun lock them as easily. Additionally, their windup on attacks is comparatively faster than it was on similarly placed enemies from DS1. There's also a greater variety of attacks by enemies and some that have odd timing and hit patterns (like the Heide Knight wrist flicks, or the Spider Hollow death pierce). Additionally, the poise characteristics appear a little different: in DS1, you could often hit an enemy while they were winding up and it would knock them out of the attack; in general, in DS2, even enemies with low poise will poise through an attack if they have started their windup. You have to hit them before they windup or deal enough damage to poise break them to knock them out of a windup (most notable on the standard samurai enemies in Iron Keep).

Finally, there are the hitboxes which are sometimes weird and a few times just bad. All the grabs are bad, the mimics are bad, and one or two other enemies aren't good either. The shockwave of the hammer ghouls throws people for a loop, for instance. This compounded with the lesser iframes and shorter rolls makes people grind their teeth at some encounters.

All in all, it builds up to a fight system that is a lot more stick-and-move and less able to be brute forced (by attacking first) and danced around within (by dodge rolling everything easily). The overall fight pattern of DS1 is a more refined Demon's, whereas DS2 seemed to put a lot of changes in place to specifically mess with players that had mastered DS1's fight system. Some felt it was less reliable (and in some cases it objectively is), but I feel it just changes it to something different.

 

[ZangBa]

A lot of it is that the DS2 fight mechanics are less forgiving. The roll has less iframes by default and the distance it travels is shorter. This means that the user has to be much more precise with their rolls to dodge things. Additionally, draining stamina on blocking causes the big stagger that makes people sad (though most single enemies and bosses never take advantage of that stagger, oddly).

On top of that, backstabs don't have 1 frame startups and vacuum properties, so they aren't as powerful and reliable. Also, you aren't completely invincible during a backstab.

Next up, enemies generally have higher poise in DS2, so you can't stun lock them as easily. Additionally, their windup on attacks is comparatively faster than it was on similarly placed enemies from DS1. There's also a greater variety of attacks by enemies and some that have odd timing and hit patterns (like the Heide Knight wrist flicks, or the Spider Hollow death pierce). Additionally, the poise characteristics appear a little different: in DS1, you could often hit an enemy while they were winding up and it would knock them out of the attack; in general, in DS2, even enemies with low poise will poise through an attack if they have started their windup. You have to hit them before they windup or deal enough damage to poise break them to knock them out of a windup (most notable on the standard samurai enemies in Iron Keep).

Finally, there are the hitboxes which are sometimes weird and a few times just bad. All the grabs are bad, the mimics are bad, and one or two other enemies aren't good either. The shockwave of the hammer ghouls throws people for a loop, for instance. This compounded with the lesser iframes and shorter rolls makes people grind their teeth at some encounters.

All in all, it builds up to a fight system that is a lot more stick-and-move and less able to be brute forced (by attacking first) and danced around within (by dodge rolling everything easily). The overall fight pattern of DS1 is a more refined Demon's, whereas DS2 seemed to put a lot of changes in place to specifically mess with players that had mastered DS1's fight system. Some felt it was less reliable (and in some cases it objectively is), but I feel it just changes it to something different.

For me, I like the changes to the stamina. Honestly, I hated the fact it was so easy to joke-mode block through everything with something like the Purple Flame Shield. Dark Souls has the same problem.

Enemies not reacting to hits, not a fan of it. Again, though, the entire series is guilt of it, especially DeS. 2-1 pickaxe guys straight up don't care sometimes. Flamelurker even has this weird thing where he will completely reset his animation upon being hit to put himself into a neutral position ready to attack. But I guess I should be comparing this to Dark Souls, so... Ogres, Black Knights, Silver Knights, Snake Men, Channelers, Blighttown enemies, Statue guy, Giant Worms and on and on all pretty much tank hits for fun, too.

Hitboxes, there are bad and good ones in all of the games. It's more evident in DS2 because of agility, but I wouldn't say they are worse, it's just the past games had such OP rolls to hide. I'll agree that agility as a mechanic is questionable, but since I play Monster Hunter with what I believe are 3 frames of roll invincibility, I don't really have an issue with it.

DS2 is certainly different, and I believe it's better for it. I'm glad backstabs were nerfed so it wasn't encouraged to dance and fish, and I'm glad stamina was something more difficult manage for more meaningful and tactical play.

 

[Sanctuary]

Hitboxes, there are bad and good ones in all of the games. It's more evident in DS2 because of agility, but I wouldn't say they are worse, it's just the past games had such OP rolls to hide. I'll agree that agility as a mechanic is questionable, but since I play Monster Hunter with what I believe are 3 frames of roll invincibility, I don't really have an issue with it.

The hitboxes probably aren't any worse aside from a few obvious choices, although the biggest problem isn't just agility either. It's agility combined with the railway turntable tracking that makes it super annoying. Once you waste enough levels to hit 99 - 100 (if you care about +1 on the backstep), it's mostly trivial. Not sure Monster Hunter is an apt comparison though. The two games keep getting compared, but other than deliberate animations, they aren't that similar.

No offence but I've literally clocked in around 1k hours into ds2, those guys go down in 2-3 of a properly upgraded weapon, a greatsword will one shot them if your build is right.

Wiki says they only have 590 health, but it seems like they have closer to 1000.

 

[RevenWolf]

Dude, that's not true at all.

No offence but I've literally clocked in around 1k hours into ds2, those guys go down in 2-3 of a properly upgraded weapon, a greatsword will one shot them if your build is right.

 

[wbEMX]

Go for it. The Red Iron Twinblade is probably the best weapon in the entire game. You can't go wrong with it.

God damn. And I went for the Bandit Axe+10. I don't complain too much, since STR scaling isn't too bad either. But the range is ass and judging from the wiki the Twinblade has much better STR scaling. I need to go to the Shrine of Amana next, so I'll get it there and look if I can upgrade it to +10.

But yeah, I had some issues with Scholar of the First Sin, as I went into it right after beating DS1. The beginning pissed me the hell off, but by now I think it's pretty damn good after all. Not as good as DS1, but still good.

 

[cireza]

Are we going to get BC for this game on Xbox One ? I don't like the changes made to SotFS.

 

[Hypron]

No offence but I've literally clocked in around 1k hours into ds2, those guys go down in 2-3 of a properly upgraded weapon, a greatsword will one shot them if your build is right.

Even my SL1 character with a lightning mace would take them down in 3 hits. The area was still a massive pain in the ass at that level though, the lack of invincibility frames made those samurai fuckers pretty hard to deal with.

 

[RevenWolf]

Even my SL1 character with a lightning mace would take them down in 3 hits. The area was still a massive pain in the ass at that level though, the lack of invincibility frames made those samurai fuckers pretty hard to deal with.

Exactly, and fuck I still have nightmares of my SL 1 run XD

 

[IC5]

A lot of it is that the DS2 fight mechanics are less forgiving. The roll has less iframes by default and the distance it travels is shorter. This means that the user has to be much more precise with their rolls to dodge things. Additionally, draining stamina on blocking causes the big stagger that makes people sad (though most single enemies and bosses never take advantage of that stagger, oddly).

On top of that, backstabs don't have 1 frame startups and vacuum properties, so they aren't as powerful and reliable. Also, you aren't completely invincible during a backstab.

Next up, enemies generally have higher poise in DS2, so you can't stun lock them as easily. Additionally, their windup on attacks is comparatively faster than it was on similarly placed enemies from DS1. There's also a greater variety of attacks by enemies and some that have odd timing and hit patterns (like the Heide Knight wrist flicks, or the Spider Hollow death pierce). Additionally, the poise characteristics appear a little different: in DS1, you could often hit an enemy while they were winding up and it would knock them out of the attack; in general, in DS2, even enemies with low poise will poise through an attack if they have started their windup. You have to hit them before they windup or deal enough damage to poise break them to knock them out of a windup (most notable on the standard samurai enemies in Iron Keep).

Yeah and those are all positives! Having to actually be deliberate about how and when I dodge, is a thrill! Varied enemy animations, less invincibility, and more precious stamina will still keep you in check, later in the game. You have to work harder, for your attack openings. Again, thrilling!

 

[Teeth]

For me, I like the changes to the stamina. Honestly, I hated the fact it was so easy to joke-mode block through everything with something like the Purple Flame Shield. Dark Souls has the same problem.

Enemies not reacting to hits, not a fan of it. Again, though, the entire series is guilt of it, especially DeS. 2-1 pickaxe guys straight up don't care sometimes. Flamelurker even has this weird thing where he will completely reset his animation upon being hit to put himself into a neutral position ready to attack. But I guess I should be comparing this to Dark Souls, so... Ogres, Black Knights, Silver Knights, Snake Men, Channelers, Blighttown enemies, Statue guy, Giant Worms and on and on all pretty much tank hits for fun, too.

Hitboxes, there are bad and good ones in all of the games. It's more evident in DS2 because of agility, but I wouldn't say they are worse, it's just the past games had such OP rolls to hide. I'll agree that agility as a mechanic is questionable, but since I play Monster Hunter with what I believe are 3 frames of roll invincibility, I don't really have an issue with it.

DS2 is certainly different, and I believe it's better for it. I'm glad backstabs were nerfed so it wasn't encouraged to dance and fish, and I'm glad stamina was something more difficult manage for more meaningful and tactical play.

Right off the bat, I'm definitely not a DS2 hater. I think DS1 is a better game overall, but I really really enjoyed my time with DS2.

That said, I think on balance, the DS1 fight system is a bit better (that includes encounter and enemy reaction design). But I don't think DS2 is bad by any means, it's a 9/10 for me where DS1 is a 10/10. The improvements to magic, the greater flexibility in weapon upgrades, proper dual wielding, and the non-instant backstabs are all good improvements.

There were a few points I forgot to mention in my overall analysis in why I think people find the DS2 fight system less satisfying and those are: shields no longer are raised in 1 frame (there's a couple frame startup to blocking) and parries can no longer be done on reaction, they have to be counter-timed based on parry startup frames, which makes them much much more difficult to do. Also, the guard break attack is slower and less useful than the kick. Also, the heavy weapon attacks not tracking enemies when a direction is held while light weapons do, and the way that roll attacks don't track enemies when buffered (but do if you delay the input until after the avatar lands and begins to pivot) create a bit of inconsistency and weirdness.

I also feel (and this is just a feeling), that there are less unique movesets overall in DS2 than DS1, even though there are more weapons. All of the axes seem to attack the same, all the greatswords, all the hammers, etc. Aside from a few exceptions. DS1 seemed to create a uniqueness for most of the weapons, where one long sword would attack from left to right on R1 and stab on R2 while another would diagonal slash on R1 and spin on R2, DS2 tends to have five long swords attack the same way and one have a unique R2. I also lament the removal of sloppy attacks when you don't meet the stat requirements, even though they were completely pointless and were likely a good cut to free up memory for power stancing and other animations.

Which brings me to power stancing: either under utilized or completely game breaking. I can't think of a good middle ground for power stancing. Cool idea though.

Now for poise, I believe it is completely necessary for the fight system to work as a whole. If enemies always reacted to hits, light fast weapons would be overpowering. There would be no differentiation between powerful enemies and weak enemies - all would fall to the mighty stun lock. The mechanic of poise is a brilliant one. It creates an additional variation to spin weapon uniqueness and movesets to create a wider play space to engage with. A zweihander should be able to knock around an armoured enemy moreso than a dagger or even long sword. Breaking it down to a stat creates an objective system that works. I guess they could create differentiation between flinches and full hit reacts, but if a flinch knocked an enemy out of an attack windup, it would break the fight system; speed would win every time. Full poise is kind of necessary.

But like you, I like the variation DS2 spins on the series. Part of me likes the changes simply for the change's sake. It's somewhat fresh, but still known. A new system to learn and adapt to. But I can't quite put it over DS1. At least for PvE. For PvP, DS2 uncertainties and eccentricities tend to put more weight on standard attacks and space control and some weight off of backstabs and parry fishing (because they are much less reliable) and that tends to put some variance back in play. Which was nice to see.

 

[Hypron]

Exactly, and fuck I still have nightmares of my SL 1 run XD

Yeah I started my SL1 playthrough with the company of championsh covenant. I managed to beat The Lost Sinner and The Duke's Dear Freja. Then I got to the Iron Keep and went "yeahhhhh... how about no?" and quit the company of champions haha. I'd have been bashing my head against a wall with some of those late game bosses otherwise.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

God damn. And I went for the Bandit Axe+10. I don't complain too much, since STR scaling isn't too bad either. But the range is ass and judging from the wiki the Twinblade has much better STR scaling. I need to go to the Shrine of Amana next, so I'll get it there and look if I can upgrade it to +10.

Yeah, don't worry too much, upgrade materials are plentiful at least.

I remember when in Dark Souls you had only 1 easy slab to get. The DLC added another, but otherwise you need to do Siegmeyer's ridiculously obtuse storyline or farm those Darkwraiths forever. *shudders*

Even my SL1 character with a lightning mace would take them down in 3 hits. The area was still a massive pain in the ass at that level though, the lack of invincibility frames made those samurai fuckers pretty hard to deal with.

Even with the stone ring? That should stagger them properly.

I swear this ring is the most underrated in the series. It made some areas turn from nightmares into something quite manageable.

Yeah I started my SL1 playthrough with the company of championsh covenant.

....Ooof. I wouldn't do an SL1 playthrough of DS2, let alone in the Champions, haha. Respect for trying.

 

[Hypron]

Even with the stone ring? That should stagger them properly.

I swear this ring is the most underrated in the series. It made some areas turn from nightmares into something quite manageable.

You know, I'm not very good at picking my items (and consumables) haha

....Ooof. I wouldn't do an SL1 playthrough of DS2, let alone in the Champions, haha. Respect for trying.

Haha cheers. I don't think DS2 is that fun at level one because your character is severely gimped. You don't even have access to any decent one handed weapon with those stats. BB ain't that fun either at lvl4 because everything does so much damage late game.

DeS and DaS1 had the perfect difficulty at that level imo (well, DeS was a bit on the easy side but DaS1 was perfect). I think DaS3 will also be pretty fun since you have access to decent shields and weapons again.

 

[aravuus]

Do NOT skip out on the DLC areas.

Do *NOT*.

They are easily some of the best content in the series and one in particular is my favorite level period.

Speaking of the DLC, how's the coop population on PC? I love DkS2 yet never got to play the DLC stuff.

 

[Hisoka]

Man did i love Dark Souls II. I played Sotfs too.
OP you started NG+ already, so i guess you didn't know of the no death no bonfire run?
Or are you just not interested in it?
I did my no death no bonfire run after very good preparation on SL 270 with nearly 300hours in. I did all the DLC and had done everything else.
This was the first time in a very long time i enjoyed to play a game until i had achieved everything.
It felt like such an awesome achievement after i finally did the run for those two rings..
I like Dark Souls etc, i don't understand the hate for II. It might be too hard for some Dark Souls and Demon Souls players because of hitboxes etc. GIT GUD! That's my answer! GIT GUD! XD
Others might be too nostalgic. If you just go in to enjoy it, you will. I don't care about your comparisons, everything has a + and -.
I had a lot of fun.
Also wow@the visuals on PS4, i had a blast.
I'm prepared for DSIII!
Also, that DLC moment when

Spoiler

the Loyce Knights prepare to battle with you against the Burnt Ivory King... One of the most epic moments in games in my opinion.

 

[Hypron]

Speaking of the DLC, how's the coop population on PC? I love DkS2 yet never got to play the DLC stuff.

It's pretty good, I didn't have much of an issue getting 30 sunlight medals two months ago.

 

[aravuus]

It's pretty good, I didn't have much of an issue getting 30 sunlight medals two months ago.

Alright cool, think I'll check it out then. Wish I could just jump into the DLC stuff straight away, but I guess I gotta rush through the main game first.

e: what the heck, two-handing a scimitar makes me take this weird pose, and stamina regenerates suuuper slow like this. Is this power stance or what? Can I NOT power stance it? I recall two-handing a scimitar in the original DkS2 through the whole game, loved it

 

[Nev]

Of course there are gangbangs in the other games, the difference is that Dark Souls 2 is the game in the series with the most useless roll despite it's free direction and the smallest stamina bar, not to mention enemies rarely react to hits, even when using ultraswords, some knights (including those from the DLC) they will just ignore your attacks, and because one attack drains close to half your stamina bar, roll away and you have a 20% stamina bar left to deal with 2 more guys that barely react or stop at anything you do.

I'm replaying Demon's Souls and while it's true that 5-1 has some gangbangs, I could easily deal with them because the combat is fast and responsive, my attacks can stagger the lesser enemies, -often staggering the three of them to death- my roll is useful and most important, my stamina bar allows me to attack and roll more than twice at a time.

Demon's and Dark sometimes throw packs of shitty enemies with a "leader" at you, Dark Souls 2 throws packs of leaders at you all the time. Like, you don't see three or more anor londo knights going after you around every corner, but you definitely see that for their DS2 counterparts (Alonne knights) in Iron Keep, Iron King Memory and the DLC areas and their knight clones.

Why? Because enemy AI in the previous games can make fighting a single enemy a challenge, while fighting a single enemy in Dark Souls 2 is extremely easy because of poor AI. Take an undead knight from the Undead Parish for example, doing a 1v1 with those is harder than 1v1ing most AI invaders in DS2, and that's why they don't have to throw 4 of them at you.

Almost every fight in DS2 comes down to running away, waiting for the pack to attack and show an opening, attack once, twice depending of weapon or three times if you don't mind getting the inevitable punish and probable death by multiple attacks, running away and repeating the process.

This really ruined what could have been a fantastic experience (DLCs). Remember the iron giants in the brume tower? Those were fun to fight 1v1. The rest of the enemies? If you fought them alone (given the extremely rare chance to do so) you'll notice their poor AI allows you to just wait for their first attack, walk to their back, backstab them and wait for them to wake up to finish them off. Solution? Throw 3 of them at the player at all times, even if he can rarely stagger them or attack more than once because he won't have enough stamina to roll away.

In short, DS2 is the game in the series with more gangbangs and mandatory packs of enemies and it's also the one with the lowest stamina bar, the one with the slowest combat by far -yet it has the fastest player movement lol-, the longest recovery time and the most inconsistent to just plain non-existant staggering. There surely can't be anything wrong with that.

 

[Hypron]

Why? Because enemy AI in the previous games can make fighting a single enemy a challenge, while fighting a single enemy in Dark Souls 2 is extremely easy because of poor AI. Take an undead knight from the Undead Parish for example, doing a 1v1 with those is harder than 1v1ing most AI invaders in DS2, and that's why they don't have to throw 4 of them at you.

Lmao that's just complete and utter nonsense. Now we're pretending that enemies in DaS are smart? The same enemies that can be defeated extremely easily by cricle-strafe backstabs? At least in DaS2 those are harder to pull off (and some enemies have moves to punish trying to get behind them - something that DaS3 expands upon actually).

Let's face it, enemies are stupid as fuck in Demon's Souls (it even extends to bosses with those braindead maneaters!), Dark Souls, and Dark Souls 2. Invaders in the DaS2 DLCs are the smartest they've ever been because they are more heavily scripted than in the other games.

 

[Nev]

Lmao that's just complete and utter nonsense. Now we're pretending that enemies in DaS are smart? The same enemies that can be defeated extremely easily by cricle-strafe backstabs? At least in DaS2 those are harder to pull off.

Let's face it, enemies are stupid as fuck in Demon's Souls (it even extends to bosses with those braindead maneaters!), Dark Souls, and Dark Souls 2. Invaders in the DaS2 DLCs are the smartest they've ever been because they are more heavily scripted than in the other games.

There are stupid enemies in Dark Souls, of course, but I'm 100% certain it's been way harder for me to backstab undead knights from the undead parish than undead knights from any of the DS2 DLC, not to mention every humanoid enemy in the rest of the game.

I didn't enjoy being invaded by literally 4 guys in the staircase leading to Alonne's armor or being backstabbed by some guys because they're hiding until you open a chest, to be quite honest. I'd hardly call that "smart" AI, unless you mean they will trashtalk you with emotes if they kill you. I'm talking about their AI, not the way they're scripted/placed around, and it's not a very good AI.

Go play the DLCs if you can, isolate a normal enemy and just do this: wait for his attack, roll into him and backstab him. Then try to do the same with an undead knight in DaS. Please just do and tell me which goes better.

 

[Hypron]

Go play the DLCs if you can, isolate a normal enemy and just do this: wait for his attack, roll into him and backstab him. Then try to do the same with an undead knight in DaS. Please just do and tell me which goes better.

I get through DaS by basically backstabbing absolutely everything. It's easier to backstab in that game.

 

[Novocaine]

Go play the DLCs if you can, isolate a normal enemy and just do this: wait for his attack, roll into him and backstab him. Then try to do the same with an undead knight in DaS. Please just do and tell me which goes better.

Yeah you can roll and BS pretty easy in DS2 and not just the DLC. But for basically every enemy that can be backstabbed in DS1 all you have to do is circle strafe until they swing and it's over. I really don't understand what you're trying to get at with this point.

 

[Hypron]

Yeah you can roll and BS pretty easy in DS2 and not just the DLC. But for basically every enemy that can be backstabbed in DS1 all you have to do is circle strafe until they swing and it's over. I really don't understand what you're trying to get at with this point.

Yeah. At least there's some timing involved in DaS2. In DaS1 you just hold the stick to the right lol.

 

[MUnited83]

Of course there are gangbangs in the other games, the difference is that Dark Souls 2 is the game in the series with the most useless roll despite it's free direction and the smallest stamina bar, not to mention enemies rarely react to hits, even when using ultraswords, some knights (including those from the DLC) they will just ignore your attacks, and because one attack drains close to half your stamina bar, roll away and you have a 20% stamina bar left to deal with 2 more guys that barely react or stop at anything you do.

I'm replaying Demon's Souls and while it's true that 5-1 has some gangbangs, I could easily deal with them because the combat is fast and responsive, my attacks can stagger the lesser enemies, -often staggering the three of them to death- my roll is useful and most important, my stamina bar allows me to attack and roll more than twice at a time.

Demon's and Dark sometimes throw packs of shitty enemies with a "leader" at you, Dark Souls 2 throws packs of leaders at you all the time. Like, you don't see three or more anor londo knights going after you around every corner, but you definitely see that for their DS2 counterparts (Alonne knights) in Iron Keep, Iron King Memory and the DLC areas and their knight clones.

Why? Because enemy AI in the previous games can make fighting a single enemy a challenge, while fighting a single enemy in Dark Souls 2 is extremely easy because of poor AI. Take an undead knight from the Undead Parish for example, doing a 1v1 with those is harder than 1v1ing most AI invaders in DS2, and that's why they don't have to throw 4 of them at you.

Almost every fight in DS2 comes down to running away, waiting for the pack to attack and show an opening, attack once, twice depending of weapon or three times if you don't mind getting the inevitable punish and probable death by multiple attacks, running away and repeating the process.

This really ruined what could have been a fantastic experience (DLCs). Remember the iron giants in the brume tower? Those were fun to fight 1v1. The rest of the enemies? If you fought them alone (given the extremely rare chance to do so) you'll notice their poor AI allows you to just wait for their first attack, walk to their back, backstab them and wait for them to wake up to finish them off. Solution? Throw 3 of them at the player at all times, even if he can rarely stagger them or attack more than once because he won't have enough stamina to roll away.

In short, DS2 is the game in the series with more gangbangs and mandatory packs of enemies and it's also the one with the lowest stamina bar, the one with the slowest combat by far -yet it has the fastest player movement lol-, the longest recovery time and the most inconsistent to just plain non-existant staggering. There surely can't be anything wrong with that.

There are stupid enemies in Dark Souls, of course, but I'm 100% certain it's been way harder for me to backstab undead knights from the undead parish than undead knights from any of the DS2 DLC, not to mention every humanoid enemy in the rest of the game.

I didn't enjoy being invaded by literally 4 guys in the staircase leading to Alonne's armor or being backstabbed by some guys because they're hiding until you open a chest, to be quite honest. I'd hardly call that "smart" AI, unless you mean they will trashtalk you with emotes if they kill you. I'm talking about their AI, not the way they're scripted/placed around, and it's not a very good AI.

Go play the DLCs if you can, isolate a normal enemy and just do this: wait for his attack, roll into him and backstab him. Then try to do the same with an undead knight in DaS. Please just do and tell me which goes better.

This has to be trolling at this point, right? The undead knights are ridiculously easy to fight and backstab, way more than the DS2 invaders. Even the Black Knights can very easily be backstabbed.

 

[Blobbers]

I'm glad you gave it a shot OP, despite the hatred you've seen the game gets. I'll be honest, Dark Souls 2 for me was inferior to any other Souls game out there, but I've managed to make my own fun. The problem for me was that I'm primarily a DEX player, I hate using shields and huge weapons, and this game simply does not accommodate DEX players at all.

The fact that ADP is a mandatory stat that you need to heavily invest in, something like 20+ points.
The fact that there is no skinny roll, and the light roll doesn't feel fast at all. Feels like I'm grazing the floor.
The fact that the movement in this game is sooo cumbersome and you don't feel like a cool ninja at all.
The fact that actions like estus drinking and gem and item crushing all have slow animations especially if you're on base ADP.
The fact that the stamina consumption is much bigger. There are many instances in the game where you'll have to roll a few times and not have stamina left for a hit without leaving yourself at 0 stamina which also means leaving yourself open for a few hits, because every enemy in the game can get in more than one hit and fast. The balanced is skewed in favor of the opponent and the fights themselves are slowed down as a result and don't make you feel like a cool, fast katana wielding master at all.

I did make my own fun, as I said, but it was not the fun I wanted. I went for a Greatsword build, just like my boy Guts. I worse some throwaway armor until I finished Lucatiel's quest and upgraded that to max. I found a balance after learning a bit about where the game's mechanics are more lenient and where they are punishing.
What I learned was: Greatswords and STR builds are much better because you can do a stagger attack into another stagger attack where both do massive damage. DEX has you relying more on speed and movement and this game is not balanced for that. Especially come later in the DLCs where enemies get insane HP pools.

I'm not saying the criticisms of level design, story, characters and all that are not valid. But that's something I am willing to overlook in games which I like to play multiple times. For me it is unacceptable when a Dark Souls game doesn't let me make my own fun, doesn't let me be a flippy ninja. And not because it wasn't designed for that. No, that would be more acceptable. The bad thing about it is, the framework is there, you have the DEX stat, you have the weapons, you have the light roll and fat roll. But the way they implemented it was just amateurish.

As I said, I'm glad you tried the game, OP, because clearly it clicked for you. It's not a bad game, and it's certainly better than DA: Lolquisition and Shadow of Mordor, the GOTY winners of that year.

Me? I don't ever, EVER want to hear a Souls game is being made without Miyazaki ever again. EVER.

 

[Nev]

This has to be trolling at this point, right? The undead knights are ridiculously easy to fight and backstab, way more than the DS2 invaders. Even the Black Knights can very easily be backstabbed.

No one said it is hard to backstab in DS, only that it generally is hardER than in DS2 and I found that to be absolutely true in my playthrough. I was backstabbing literally every enemy that can be backstabbed in DS2, all the time. I don't like the mechanic in either game and wish they would get rid of it or just go the BB "backstab" route -skipping the stupid gun parry of course-, but I've read plenty of times that it's harder to backstab in DS2 than it is in DS, while that's absolutely not true. Just because the animation is different doesn't mean it's harder to pull off.

At least normal enemies can roll in Dark Souls and Demon's Souls, their AI makes them less predictable and harder to fight. How many humanoids roll or step away from you in DS2? One? More like zero. They all just attack you non-stop with their infinite stamina, that's what their AI comes down to.

 

[Keinu]

No one said it is hard to backstab in DS, only that it generally is hardER than in DS2 and I found that to be absolutely true in my playthrough. I was backstabbing literally every enemy that can be backstabbed in DS2, all the time. I don't like the mechanic in either game and wish they would get rid of it or just go the BB "backstab" route -skipping the stupid gun parry of course-, but I've read plenty of times that it's harder to backstab in DS2 than it is in DS, while that's absolutely not true. Just because the animation is different doesn't mean it's harder to pull off.

This has to be something about your playstyle, cause I think this is the first time I've seen someone complain that backstabbing in DS2 is easier than DS1.

 

[Hypron]

At least normal enemies can roll in Dark Souls and Demon's Souls, their AI makes them less predictable and harder to fight. How many humanoids roll or step away from you in DS2? One? More like zero. They all just attack you non-stop with their infinite stamina, that's what their AI comes down to.

Normal enemies can roll in DaS/DeS? Which version of the game did you play 'cause it's definitely not the one I played. Some NPC/NPC invaders do (and they do the same in DaS2), but normal enemies don't. And I don't get how they are less predictable, they are extremely predictable.

Most enemies don't have infinite stamina in DaS2 either but you've been talking a whole lot of nonsense for the past few posts so at this point I'm starting to assume you're just trolling.

 

[Hedrush]

I'm currently playing through DS2 on PS4 and ive got a question. Whats the deal with the blood? It's turned on but there's none, I turn it to mild or off and it makes no difference whatsoever. It's no biggy I'm thoroughly enjoying the game and the game world. Also what's the deal with enimies not respawning?

 

[psychotron]

I'm currently playing through DS2 on PS4 and ive got a question. Whats the deal with the blood? It's turned on but there's none, I turn it to mild or off and it makes no difference whatsoever. It's no biggy I'm thoroughly enjoying the game and the game world. Also what's the deal with enimies not respawning?

Not sure about the blood, but as far as enemies not spawning, some just don't, while others stop spawning after you kill them a bunch of times.

 

[Hypron]

I'm currently playing through DS2 on PS4 and ive got a question. Whats the deal with the blood? It's turned on but there's none, I turn it to mild or off and it makes no difference whatsoever. It's no biggy I'm thoroughly enjoying the game and the game world. Also what's the deal with enimies not respawning?

I never really paid attention to the blood so I can't help you with that. Maybe only some enemies spill actual blood?

As far as the respawning goes, enemies will stop respawning after killing them around 10 times (can't remember the actual number), unless you join the company of champions (which also makes the game harder). You can also burn a bonfire ascetic to make the whole area go in NG+ difficulty and respawn all the guys.

 

[KeRaSh]

A lot of it is that the DS2 fight mechanics are less forgiving. The roll has less iframes by default and the distance it travels is shorter. This means that the user has to be much more precise with their rolls to dodge things. Additionally, draining stamina on blocking causes the big stagger that makes people sad (though most single enemies and bosses never take advantage of that stagger, oddly).

On top of that, backstabs don't have 1 frame startups and vacuum properties, so they aren't as powerful and reliable. Also, you aren't completely invincible during a backstab.

Next up, enemies generally have higher poise in DS2, so you can't stun lock them as easily. Additionally, their windup on attacks is comparatively faster than it was on similarly placed enemies from DS1. There's also a greater variety of attacks by enemies and some that have odd timing and hit patterns (like the Heide Knight wrist flicks, or the Spider Hollow death pierce). Additionally, the poise characteristics appear a little different: in DS1, you could often hit an enemy while they were winding up and it would knock them out of the attack; in general, in DS2, even enemies with low poise will poise through an attack if they have started their windup. You have to hit them before they windup or deal enough damage to poise break them to knock them out of a windup (most notable on the standard samurai enemies in Iron Keep).

Finally, there are the hitboxes which are sometimes weird and a few times just bad. All the grabs are bad, the mimics are bad, and one or two other enemies aren't good either. The shockwave of the hammer ghouls throws people for a loop, for instance. This compounded with the lesser iframes and shorter rolls makes people grind their teeth at some encounters.

All in all, it builds up to a fight system that is a lot more stick-and-move and less able to be brute forced (by attacking first) and danced around within (by dodge rolling everything easily). The overall fight pattern of DS1 is a more refined Demon's, whereas DS2 seemed to put a lot of changes in place to specifically mess with players that had mastered DS1's fight system. Some felt it was less reliable (and in some cases it objectively is), but I feel it just changes it to something different.

I guess I can at least feel a little proud beating DS2 considering it seems to be less forgiving than DS1.

The fact that ADP is a mandatory stat that you need to heavily invest in, something like 20+ points.
The fact that there is no skinny roll, and the light roll doesn't feel fast at all. Feels like I'm grazing the floor.
The fact that the movement in this game is sooo cumbersome and you don't feel like a cool ninja at all.
The fact that actions like estus drinking and gem and item crushing all have slow animations especially if you're on base ADP.
The fact that the stamina consumption is much bigger. There are many instances in the game where you'll have to roll a few times and not have stamina left for a hit without leaving yourself at 0 stamina which also means leaving yourself open for a few hits, because every enemy in the game can get in more than one hit and fast. The balanced is skewed in favor of the opponent and the fights themselves are slowed down as a result and don't make you feel like a cool, fast katana wielding master at all.

I completely agree with your points and these things were definitely annoying. I can't really compare it to DS1 since I gave up on that after a few hours so I can't draw direct comparisons. The issues I had with DS2 didn't stop me from beating the game and the DLC and despite some annoying areas I think I had a pretty good time playing it.

 

[MUnited83]

No one said it is hard to backstab in DS, only that it generally is hardER than in DS2 and I found that to be absolutely true in my playthrough. I was backstabbing literally every enemy that can be backstabbed in DS2, all the time. I don't like the mechanic in either game and wish they would get rid of it or just go the BB "backstab" route -skipping the stupid gun parry of course-, but I've read plenty of times that it's harder to backstab in DS2 than it is in DS, while that's absolutely not true. Just because the animation is different doesn't mean it's harder to pull off.

At least normal enemies can roll in Dark Souls and Demon's Souls, their AI makes them less predictable and harder to fight. How many humanoids roll or step away from you in DS2? One? More like zero. They all just attack you non-stop with their infinite stamina, that's what their AI comes down to.

The more you talk more i'm convinced you didn't play either of the games?
DS1 is notoriously easier to backstab. The backstab "window" is bigger. Some of the enemies can basically be backstabbed from the side and the game will reallign you automatically.

And what "normal enemies" are you talking about? The only ones that roll are human NPCs and invaders... so the same as DS2...
I don't get the "AI in DS1 makes them less predictable and harder to fight" either. They are extremely predictable and even the Black Knights, that are supposed to be a good challenge, telegraph their attacks like crazy.

 

[Hedrush]

Not sure about the blood, but as far as enemies not spawning, some just don't, while others stop spawning after you kill them a bunch of times.

I never really paid attention to the blood so I can't help you with that. Maybe only some enemies spill actual blood?

As far as the respawning goes, enemies will stop respawning after killing them around 10 times (can't remember the actual number), unless you join the company of champions (which also makes the game harder). You can also burn a bonfire ascetic to make the whole area go in NG+ difficulty and respawn all the guys.

Thanks guys

Theres definitely no blood that I can see I've tried the 3 settings and it does nothing, all I see is particle effects when I'm hacking and slashing.

Ok I think I've came across the company of champions I just need to remember where. I think I'd like to go straight into NG+ mode, that sounds good. With DS3 just around the corner, not too mention everything else next month I can't see me starting a second playthrough any time soon, so to play through NG+ right now would be a good thing.

 

[Unfriendly TimeTraveler]

Now that I think of it the chariot boss fight is probably one of my favorite in the game from how intense it gets and the fight itself isn't half bad either. though it's never a good idea to run right to there if you are cooping or trying to summon because some enemies will chase you down. plus the gutter was always one of my favorite places in terms of story, didn't mind how the area played because once you lit all of the torches it made the place look a lot cooler.

Though isn't there that odd tire texture or something within the piles of trash? always gave me a good laugh.

 

[Anon67]

Now that I think of it the chariot boss fight is probably one of my favorite in the game from how intense it gets and the fight itself isn't half bad either. though it's never a good idea to run right to there if you are cooping or trying to summon because some enemies will chase you down.

Liked it too as well. I don't think that actual fight with the boss isn't that cool (still fun) but everything before it was great since you needed to be more methodical since you're dealing with pesky skeletons and their magician revivers (don't really know the names to these magicians lol).

 

[DrROBschiz]

Currently enjoying my current Playthrough of DS2

Too many stats and what a grind it is in the beginning (thought not neccesary) to make anything resembling a build

Otherwise great and diverse game

 

[edbrat]

Man did i love Dark Souls II. I played Sotfs too.
OP you started NG+ already, so i guess you didn't know of the no death no bonfire run?

no death no bonfire is insane! I thought SL1 level runs were nuts enough.

 

[Nameless]

Been playing a bunch of DS1 lately on janky ass 360 and it honestly feels better in a lot of ways than SCOTFS on PS4. It's a more challenging game, but it's a fair, refined challenge and a lot less frustrating, even with the aforementioned jank.

DeS and DS1 deserve the remaster treatment so much more, hopefully we'll get them during the hiatus following 3.

 

[ebullientprism]

Of course there are gangbangs in the other games, the difference is that Dark Souls 2 is the game in the series with the most useless roll despite it's free direction and the smallest stamina bar, not to mention enemies rarely react to hits, even when using ultraswords, some knights (including those from the DLC) they will just ignore your attacks, and because one attack drains close to half your stamina bar, roll away and you have a 20% stamina bar left to deal with 2 more guys that barely react or stop at anything you do.

I'm replaying Demon's Souls and while it's true that 5-1 has some gangbangs, I could easily deal with them because the combat is fast and responsive, my attacks can stagger the lesser enemies, -often staggering the three of them to death- my roll is useful and most important, my stamina bar allows me to attack and roll more than twice at a time.

Demon's and Dark sometimes throw packs of shitty enemies with a "leader" at you, Dark Souls 2 throws packs of leaders at you all the time. Like, you don't see three or more anor londo knights going after you around every corner, but you definitely see that for their DS2 counterparts (Alonne knights) in Iron Keep, Iron King Memory and the DLC areas and their knight clones.

Why? Because enemy AI in the previous games can make fighting a single enemy a challenge, while fighting a single enemy in Dark Souls 2 is extremely easy because of poor AI. Take an undead knight from the Undead Parish for example, doing a 1v1 with those is harder than 1v1ing most AI invaders in DS2, and that's why they don't have to throw 4 of them at you.

Almost every fight in DS2 comes down to running away, waiting for the pack to attack and show an opening, attack once, twice depending of weapon or three times if you don't mind getting the inevitable punish and probable death by multiple attacks, running away and repeating the process.

This really ruined what could have been a fantastic experience (DLCs). Remember the iron giants in the brume tower? Those were fun to fight 1v1. The rest of the enemies? If you fought them alone (given the extremely rare chance to do so) you'll notice their poor AI allows you to just wait for their first attack, walk to their back, backstab them and wait for them to wake up to finish them off. Solution? Throw 3 of them at the player at all times, even if he can rarely stagger them or attack more than once because he won't have enough stamina to roll away.

In short, DS2 is the game in the series with more gangbangs and mandatory packs of enemies and it's also the one with the lowest stamina bar, the one with the slowest combat by far -yet it has the fastest player movement lol-, the longest recovery time and the most inconsistent to just plain non-existant staggering. There surely can't be anything wrong with that.

Are you serious? DS2 had some of the best invaders in the series. AI is the one area where DS2 has a serious advantage.

 

[Anon67]

Man did i love Dark Souls II. I played Sotfs too.
OP you started NG+ already, so i guess you didn't know of the no death no bonfire run?
Or are you just not interested in it?
I did my no death no bonfire run after very good preparation on SL 270 with nearly 300hours in. I did all the DLC and had done everything else.

I wasn't aware there was a no death, no bonfire run. I don't think I'd do it even if I knew since I don't think I have the required patience nor time lol.

 

[MUnited83]

I wasn't aware there was a no death, no bonfire run. I don't think I'd do it even if I knew since I don't think I have the required patience nor time lol.

Yeah, there is. Super difficult. Has some great rewards though!

 

[ZangBa]

Right off the bat, I'm definitely not a DS2 hater. I think DS1 is a better game overall, but I really really enjoyed my time with DS2.

That said, I think on balance, the DS1 fight system is a bit better (that includes encounter and enemy reaction design). But I don't think DS2 is bad by any means, it's a 9/10 for me where DS1 is a 10/10. The improvements to magic, the greater flexibility in weapon upgrades, proper dual wielding, and the non-instant backstabs are all good improvements.

There were a few points I forgot to mention in my overall analysis in why I think people find the DS2 fight system less satisfying and those are: shields no longer are raised in 1 frame (there's a couple frame startup to blocking) and parries can no longer be done on reaction, they have to be counter-timed based on parry startup frames, which makes them much much more difficult to do. Also, the guard break attack is slower and less useful than the kick. Also, the heavy weapon attacks not tracking enemies when a direction is held while light weapons do, and the way that roll attacks don't track enemies when buffered (but do if you delay the input until after the avatar lands and begins to pivot) create a bit of inconsistency and weirdness.

I also feel (and this is just a feeling), that there are less unique movesets overall in DS2 than DS1, even though there are more weapons. All of the axes seem to attack the same, all the greatswords, all the hammers, etc. Aside from a few exceptions. DS1 seemed to create a uniqueness for most of the weapons, where one long sword would attack from left to right on R1 and stab on R2 while another would diagonal slash on R1 and spin on R2, DS2 tends to have five long swords attack the same way and one have a unique R2. I also lament the removal of sloppy attacks when you don't meet the stat requirements, even though they were completely pointless and were likely a good cut to free up memory for power stancing and other animations.

Which brings me to power stancing: either under utilized or completely game breaking. I can't think of a good middle ground for power stancing. Cool idea though.

Now for poise, I believe it is completely necessary for the fight system to work as a whole. If enemies always reacted to hits, light fast weapons would be overpowering. There would be no differentiation between powerful enemies and weak enemies - all would fall to the mighty stun lock. The mechanic of poise is a brilliant one. It creates an additional variation to spin weapon uniqueness and movesets to create a wider play space to engage with. A zweihander should be able to knock around an armoured enemy moreso than a dagger or even long sword. Breaking it down to a stat creates an objective system that works. I guess they could create differentiation between flinches and full hit reacts, but if a flinch knocked an enemy out of an attack windup, it would break the fight system; speed would win every time. Full poise is kind of necessary.

But like you, I like the variation DS2 spins on the series. Part of me likes the changes simply for the change's sake. It's somewhat fresh, but still known. A new system to learn and adapt to. But I can't quite put it over DS1. At least for PvE. For PvP, DS2 uncertainties and eccentricities tend to put more weight on standard attacks and space control and some weight off of backstabs and parry fishing (because they are much less reliable) and that tends to put some variance back in play. Which was nice to see.

I had to go to sleep last night, but I didn't want this to go to waste.

1 frame shields, reaction parries, I consider these changes just a difference in game balance. I'm OK with the changes. I'm not sure what you mean about heavy weapons, I've always been able to aim them where I want. As for the kick, I completely disagree. The kick has always been completely useless to me. I can only remember ever using it on the spear and shield undead in the Undead Parish, and never again. I found the guard break infinitely more useful, especially on those Knights in Drangleic. It's also much better in PvP.

For the movesets, I think you may be factually wrong just based on numbers here. DS2 overall, has a lot of unique weapons because there are so many bosses. I understand why you feel this way, though. There is a quantity of samey weapons that differ in stats and not much else, but overall I'd say there is still probably more unique movesets in 2.

I agree it would be too easy if enemies stayed stunlocked, I think Bloodborne does this best. Even enemies that aren't stun locked look like they are having a reaction at least. DS2'sreal problem here is that it favors strike weapons like the club way too much of the time. Breaking poise is harder if you are going a typical Dex route, using longswords or katanas, so it looks like enemies just don't care what you are doing. If you use even a regular club, even the larger enemies will get stunned after a few hits, or better yet powerstanced hits. This I would consider a pretty legitmate complaint, poor enemy weakness balancing.

Powerstancing is a fun gimmick, but I like the way DS3 is going about it. Though, I will some of the more ridiculous combinations.

Someone mentioned enemy tracking to me earlier, DS has the same thing. Even Black Knights, one of the more popular enemies, will spin to win on you, and I'm OK with it. The turtles are notorious for this, but I've never had a problem with it. They are super slow, and honestly if they didn't have some form of tracking in their movesets, they would be a joke.

 

[Zocano]

Someone mentioned enemy tracking to me earlier, DS has the same thing. Even Black Knights, one of the more popular enemies, will spin to win on you, and I'm OK with it. The turtles are notorious for this, but I've never had a problem with it. They are super slow, and honestly if they didn't have some form of tracking in their movesets, they would be a joke.

Honestly the turtles are literally just an animation problem. If they had an actual animation or were "locked" like most enemies that track you, no one would have noticed.

 

[RevenWolf]

I had to go to sleep last night, but I didn't want this to go to waste.

1 frame shields, reaction parries, I consider these changes just a difference in game balance. I'm OK with the changes. I'm not sure what you mean about heavy weapons, I've always been able to aim them where I want. As for the kick, I completely disagree. The kick has always been completely useless to me. I can only remember ever using it on the spear and shield undead in the Undead Parish, and never again. I found the guard break infinitely more useful, especially on those Knights in Drangleic. It's also much better in PvP.

For the movesets, I think you may be factually wrong just based on numbers here. DS2 overall, has a lot of unique weapons because there are so many bosses. I understand why you feel this way, though. There is a quantity of samey weapons that differ in stats and not much else, but overall I'd say there is still probably more unique movesets in 2.

I agree it would be too easy if enemies stayed stunlocked, I think Bloodborne does this best. Even enemies that aren't stun locked look like they are having a reaction at least. DS2'sreal problem here is that it favors strike weapons like the club way too much of the time. Breaking poise is harder if you are going a typical Dex route, using longswords or katanas, so it looks like enemies just don't care what you are doing. If you use even a regular club, even the larger enemies will get stunned after a few hits, or better yet powerstanced hits. This I would consider a pretty legitmate complaint, poor enemy weakness balancing.

Powerstancing is a fun gimmick, but I like the way DS3 is going about it. Though, I will some of the more ridiculous combinations.

Someone mentioned enemy tracking to me earlier, DS has the same thing. Even Black Knights, one of the more popular enemies, will spin to win on you, and I'm OK with it. The turtles are notorious for this, but I've never had a problem with it. They are super slow, and honestly if they didn't have some form of tracking in their movesets, they would be a joke.

Yup strike weapons are insanely good for pve, there's a reason why the majority of SLV 1 runs choose the clerics for the mace as the weapon to use.

Hopefully they added a larger variety of strike weapons though, as they are comparatively fewer than the other types (feels that way at least)

 

[Teeth]

I had to go to sleep last night, but I didn't want this to go to waste.

1 frame shields, reaction parries, I consider these changes just a difference in game balance. I'm OK with the changes. I'm not sure what you mean about heavy weapons, I've always been able to aim them where I want. As for the kick, I completely disagree. The kick has always been completely useless to me. I can only remember ever using it on the spear and shield undead in the Undead Parish, and never again. I found the guard break infinitely more useful, especially on those Knights in Drangleic. It's also much better in PvP.

For the movesets, I think you may be factually wrong just based on numbers here. DS2 overall, has a lot of unique weapons because there are so many bosses. I understand why you feel this way, though. There is a quantity of samey weapons that differ in stats and not much else, but overall I'd say there is still probably more unique movesets in 2.

I agree it would be too easy if enemies stayed stunlocked, I think Bloodborne does this best. Even enemies that aren't stun locked look like they are having a reaction at least. DS2'sreal problem here is that it favors strike weapons like the club way too much of the time. Breaking poise is harder if you are going a typical Dex route, using longswords or katanas, so it looks like enemies just don't care what you are doing. If you use even a regular club, even the larger enemies will get stunned after a few hits, or better yet powerstanced hits. This I would consider a pretty legitmate complaint, poor enemy weakness balancing.

Powerstancing is a fun gimmick, but I like the way DS3 is going about it. Though, I will some of the more ridiculous combinations.

Someone mentioned enemy tracking to me earlier, DS has the same thing. Even Black Knights, one of the more popular enemies, will spin to win on you, and I'm OK with it. The turtles are notorious for this, but I've never had a problem with it. They are super slow, and honestly if they didn't have some form of tracking in their movesets, they would be a joke.

I agree completely that the shield delays and parries just create a different style. I'm not arguing that it's objectively worse, I'm just trying to analyse the system to try to determine why people dislike it. I'm not one of those people.

The weapon variety thing I purposely put the caveat of it "feeling" like less because I was pretty sure there would be objectively more. Especially if you count the DLC. Too many are kinda useless or have better versions that hew towards the unified weapon class set.

And yeah, DEX weapons were probably the worst overall class of weapons in DS2.

 

[Wolfe]

The only good levels are in the DLC but even those are not as fun as they could be because the combat and enemy encounter design are trash. The main game is mediocre at best. Maybe if you haven't played the other games it isn't as bad, otherwise it's a terrible follow-up that feels like the first Souls game and not the third.

All signs point at DSIII being the actual sequel to Dark Souls though and I'm glad for it, I just wish this thing wasn't called Dark Souls II and just had a spin-off title so no more poor players are fooled thinking they're going to play a real sequel to DaS.

The problem with the bosses is not that they're mostly armored guys with swords, it's that they are uninspired, redundant and worst of all, easier than killing all of the guards in every city of Assassin's Creed.

Nah, I actually envy you for being able to enjoy this mess of a game as much as the other games.

Lol give me a fucking break.

 

[RevenWolf]

Lol give me a fucking break.

Luckily most of those style of "criticism" left in the later pages and made way to actual discussion, and more importantly actual advice for the OP which was the literal point of this thread XD

 

[spliced]

Nice post OP. It's pretty amazing you beat the game the first time with unupgraded weapons, I was actually hoping some youtubers I watch would have tried that. There are a few weapons that do pretty decent damage even unupgraded, I've had my main weapon almost break on strength builds and I'll use the Greatsword or for pure magic builds I'll use the dagger to backstab.

 

[ZangBa]

I agree completely that the shield delays and parries just create a different style. I'm not arguing that it's objectively worse, I'm just trying to analyse the system to try to determine why people dislike it. I'm not one of those people.

The weapon variety thing I purposely put the caveat of it "feeling" like less because I was pretty sure there would be objectively more. Especially if you count the DLC. Too many are kinda useless or have better versions that hew towards the unified weapon class set.

And yeah, DEX weapons were probably the worst overall class of weapons in DS2.

I understand where you are coming from and your position on this. I apologize if I'm coming off as abrasive to your point of view.

The DLC introduced some pretty cool weapons. Puzzle Sword and Majestic Sword, or my personal favorite, Alonne's Katana.

I wonder if the development hell the game went through inadvertently mixed up the locations in such a way that caused strike weapons to be so prevalent for the first third or so of the game.