EatinOlives
Member
WARNING: LONG-ASS POST
Prior to playing both games, I thought Galaxy 2 and 3D World were completely different beasts. However, after having played both more or less back-to-back (only a few weeks in between both) this year, I've come to the conclusion that 3D World's concepts and execution are not only incredibly similar if not identical to Galaxy 2's, but they're also simply far better in 3D World.
First I want to take a moment to talk about why I'm talking about Galaxy 2 only and not 1. Galaxy 2 changed the formula of Galaxy 1 considerably, opting for more "straight up platforming" than Galaxy 1 did. In essence, I think this is part of Nintendo's gradual transition from the Mario 64 style of 3D platforming to what ended up being Mario 3D World's, which is basically "2D Mario but in 3D". You see, Mario 64 started very different from the typical 2D Mario formula because making a game in 3D was that much different. Mario Sunshine introduced the concept of very linear levels with platforms floating on an empty abstract world where the objective was to get to the goal via mastering Mario's acrobatic movement. Mario Galaxy made its game very much around these abstract levels, but it still retained much of the "classic" 3D Mario tropes. It included an elaborate stage select hub not far removed from Peach's Castle or Delfino Plaza (although very much simplified), players had a very wide variety of Galaxies to choose from at any time, the Galaxies themselves were "bigger" in that many of them had many stars to them and involved revisiting older areas to get to the new stars, there was a considerable story element to it (continuing the trend that started with Mario Sunshine), and Mario's movement was still very very similar to the 3D Mario scheme.
Galaxy 2 in my opinion was the first real transition to move into the "2D Mario but in 3D" space, a move that was finalized in Mario 3D Land, but perfected in 3D World. Galaxy 2 removed the stage select hub, made its stage select screen reminiscent of more "classic 2D" menus, and the vast majority of stages were one-offs that were far more linear in nature. Very noticeably they moved away from the Galaxy 1 stage concept, where Mario jumps between many planetoids in a vast space, to what we got in Galaxy 2, where all the platforms were arranged from Point A to Point B and then you move on to the next Galaxy. (I'm not including the Green Star challenges in this discussion, since they're more or less "side content". Levels were not designed from the ground-up around these green stars)
So why is Mario 3D World so superior to Galaxy 2 in my perspective? There's several major reasons:
World Design
Playing through Mario 3D World made the flaws of Galaxy 2 more apparent. First off, and most importantly, is the fact that the world design felt far more polished, and the designers felt a lot more sure of themselves as to what they wanted the game to be. 3D World felt like Nintendo's deliberate move to transition Mario into "2D Mario but in 3D", whereas Galaxy 2 felt more wishy-washy. There were very pointed moves in this direction, not the least of which was the inclusion of visual elements that used to be found exclusively in the 2D games, such as using the flagpole at the end of a stage, slot machine bonus rounds, Toad houses, etc. The level design felt far more deliberate to imitate the 2D design by relying a lot more on the use of speed and momentum and maneuvering through tricky obstacles instead of the much slower handwave-y design of Mario Galaxy 2. Enemies, for instance, were kind of "paintbrushed" into the levels in both Galaxy games, whereas many enemies in 3D World were designed specifically to blend into the levels as obstacles.
Let's take the Octoombas in both Galaxy 2 and Mario 3D world and compare how they were used. In Galaxy 2 they wander aimlessly horizontally and shoot a single rock in Mario's direction, and can be easily dispatched with a star bit or a jump on the head. In Mario 3D World they're featured in the Super Galaxy level where they're completely static, meaning each time they were placed they were put there deliberately by the devs. Their projectiles aren't curved, but rather straight, and you can jump on top of them to get rid of them. Multiple Octoombas are placed in deliberate locations in Super Galaxy's rotating platforms so that they're not just a random enemy to be dispatched, they're clear and deliberate moves to limit the player's mobility. They're even used to prevent the player from getting one of the stars, since the Octoombas can destroy the brick block that makes getting that star possible if the player simply skips over them. They're also placed in front of the player facing backward, meaning the player is forced to jump to avoid the projectiles, which puts them at much higher risk of falling over than they otherwise would when the platforms rotate. Finally, they can only be dispatched via ground pound, which halts the player's movement that is very important in this particular level. This right here is a vital difference in how enemies are used. In Galaxy 2 they're simple mooks that are little more than level filler. In Mario 3D World they're brilliant obstacles that blend extremely well into the level design itself. This is just one example, there are many many more across all the levels and all the enemies.
Movement
Movement in Mario 3D World was altered heavily from Galaxy 2, in such a way that makes many of the levels in 3DW even possible to complete. First off is the use of a run button and the concept of momentum, which causes the player to go faster if they dash in a particular direction for a short amount of time. This in addition to the 8-directional movement as opposed to 360-degree movement seen in all Mario games until 3D Land makes the game's movement precise. Play 20 minutes of 3D World and 20 minutes of Mario Galaxy 2 back to back to really see this. The Galaxy series' movement is far floatier, slower, and less "acrobatic" (for the lack of a better word). Level designers can now easily throw in small and narrow obstacles next to wide and fast-moving rotating logs or platforms, or the infamous rotating Ice Cube from World 8 without batting an eye. They can throw in a lone boost block that requires the player to jump in a 90 degree angle toward a different direction because this new movement allows the player to turn on a dime. They can put rolling spike logs into see-saw platforms because they know the player can alter his/jump trajectory far more reliably than they ever could with Galaxy 2. This translates into far more inventive, elaborate, and just downright fun levels in 3D World. Sure the move count was smaller in number, but the movement itself was vastly improved and allowed for much better levels that went beyond simple floating platforms moving around like they were in Galaxy 2.
Power-Ups
Because the movement is far more precise this time around, power-ups were included to actually be useful across levels beyond being simple level gimmicks. Nintendo was far more confident to make projectile-based power-ups permanent since Mario & co. can actually aim fireballs and boomerangs in the desired direction far faster and more reliably. They also introduced the Cat Powerup, which allows wall climbing and attack-floating in such a way that it vastly improves the player's movement options. I can't tell you how many times I barely saved my skin from falling out of the stage with a few well-timed jumps and some quick wall climbing. These kinds of "barely-made-it" saves put some really good "spice" into the gameplay and is very reminiscent of 2D Mario. On the other hand, these kinds of "saves" are very rare, if not impossible" in the Galaxy games simply because the movement was that unsophisticated. Many of the power-ups in Galaxy 2 were simple in nature and very limited. Fire Mario was under a strict time limit (and very annoying music might I add), Boo Mario was extremely slow and only used in very few level gimmicks, Cloud Mario's movement advanage was also severely limited based on how powerful it was, and the less said about Spring Mario the better.
In short, 3D World's power-ups were so well designed you could complete all levels with them, and in nearly all cases they afforded the player multiple advantages in their own ways, whether it's easier dispatching of enemies (which, remember, they're far more significant to the level design in 3DW than in Galaxy 2, so that's important) or more creative use of movement. At the same time, Nintendo didn't rely on them so much that they made levels impossible to complete without them (at least the vast majority of the time), whereas if you have a Boo Mario powerup in Galaxy 2 the entire level segment was designed around Boo Mario, there's no variation in how you complete those levels. Giving players that choice and providing a different level completion experience based on what power-up they have or don't have makes the gameplay that much richer in 3DW.
"Story"
Mario Sunshine started an odd trend in giving a plotline to mainline Mario games. It was filled with cutscenes, dialog, and even (unfortunately godawful) voice acting. Mario Galaxy did tone it down, but there was a clear story line, including a lengthy backstory of their new character Rosalina. Galaxy 2 kind of got rid of the story, but in my opinion, and especially so after playing 3DW, this was half-assed. Galaxy 2, despite having a minimalistic story, was still stupidly verbose for no reason. Many friendly characters you came across during levels still stopped you dead in your tracks to talk some inane chatter to you. You still had to stop and read "THANK YOU!" or "OMG PLS HELP" whenever you came across a luma or Captain Toad. Lubba still told you some pointless thing whenever you beat nearly every non-green star in the game. "OMG NEW CHARACTER IN THE SHIP!!" "OMG WE'RE THAT MUCH CLOSER TO SAVING YOUR 'LOVED ONE'!!" "OMG LET ME TAKE YOU TO THE MUSHROOM ROOM BECAUSE YOU ENCOUNTERED A NEW MUSHROOM AND LET ME SAY POINTLESS SHIT" "OMG YOU GOT TO A NEW WORLD LET ME REITERATE HOW MUCH CLOSER YOU ARE TO SAVING YOUR 'LOVED ONE'!!!!" Too many interruptions and too much dialog that went absolutely nowhere.
Mario 3D World is a giant breath of fresh air in that regard. The game isn't "no story while still talking for no reason", the game is outright silent. The few "cutscenes" are of characters pantomiming quick little expressions while the game speeds along to the next level. There's no stupid chatter from Lubba or some other lame sidekick when you beat any level. Even Captain Toad who appears in random stages has no dialog, just a neat little animation or two as you figure out what to do to save him. Not only is it faster and more to the point, it's also more charming. It's more charming seeing Bowser with his smug-ass face capturing fairies in a pantomime rather than hearing his 10,000th generic declaration that he'll "crush Mario!!!" It speeds up the game, gives it more charm, and cuts needless filler. I still did like the story in Galaxy 1, but that's because they actually wrote a story. In Galaxy 2 they made the deliberate effort to NOT have a story, but at the same time they still interrupted you with inane dialog. Mario 3D World's treatment of a minimalist story is objectively better than Galaxy 2's.
World Map
This one is relatively minor, but I think it's yet another very obvious reason why 3DW does what Galaxy 2 tried to do much better. Galaxy 2, as I mentioned before, tried to have a "classic" world map, but it was very bare bones and uninspired in my opinion. Despite having a world map, it was strictly moving from left to right. It simply had icons floating on an empty space with a background thrown in the back. 3DW's world map, on the other hand, had full 3D geometry complete with coin boxes you could hit, peppered with little toad and stamp houses, slot machine houses that popped up every now and then, it even housed a few secrets with invisible warp pipes, etc. It provided a lot more of a visual treat and made traversing the worlds more fun than simply picking floating icons from a menu. Just looking at a screenshot of the two you and you see how much more inspired and elaborate the World maps are. I think it's important because these maps are truly the "glue" that holds both games together.
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So, in conclusion, I think Galaxy 2 was a necessary step for Nintendo to transition 3D Mario back into the formulas they developed for 2D Mario, but at the same time I think the fact that it was a sequel to Galaxy 1 gave it a lot of unnecessary baggage, some really bland and imprecise movement that severely limited how fun traversing the levels could be, made it far less skill-based and more gimmick-based, and provided players with ultimately less options to complete levels. Mario 3D World I think is the better game of the two because it took what Galaxy 2 wanted to be and actually perfecting that formula instead of half-assing the transition.
Wow, that was long. I doubt anyone will read it but there you go! Thoughts?
Prior to playing both games, I thought Galaxy 2 and 3D World were completely different beasts. However, after having played both more or less back-to-back (only a few weeks in between both) this year, I've come to the conclusion that 3D World's concepts and execution are not only incredibly similar if not identical to Galaxy 2's, but they're also simply far better in 3D World.
First I want to take a moment to talk about why I'm talking about Galaxy 2 only and not 1. Galaxy 2 changed the formula of Galaxy 1 considerably, opting for more "straight up platforming" than Galaxy 1 did. In essence, I think this is part of Nintendo's gradual transition from the Mario 64 style of 3D platforming to what ended up being Mario 3D World's, which is basically "2D Mario but in 3D". You see, Mario 64 started very different from the typical 2D Mario formula because making a game in 3D was that much different. Mario Sunshine introduced the concept of very linear levels with platforms floating on an empty abstract world where the objective was to get to the goal via mastering Mario's acrobatic movement. Mario Galaxy made its game very much around these abstract levels, but it still retained much of the "classic" 3D Mario tropes. It included an elaborate stage select hub not far removed from Peach's Castle or Delfino Plaza (although very much simplified), players had a very wide variety of Galaxies to choose from at any time, the Galaxies themselves were "bigger" in that many of them had many stars to them and involved revisiting older areas to get to the new stars, there was a considerable story element to it (continuing the trend that started with Mario Sunshine), and Mario's movement was still very very similar to the 3D Mario scheme.
Galaxy 2 in my opinion was the first real transition to move into the "2D Mario but in 3D" space, a move that was finalized in Mario 3D Land, but perfected in 3D World. Galaxy 2 removed the stage select hub, made its stage select screen reminiscent of more "classic 2D" menus, and the vast majority of stages were one-offs that were far more linear in nature. Very noticeably they moved away from the Galaxy 1 stage concept, where Mario jumps between many planetoids in a vast space, to what we got in Galaxy 2, where all the platforms were arranged from Point A to Point B and then you move on to the next Galaxy. (I'm not including the Green Star challenges in this discussion, since they're more or less "side content". Levels were not designed from the ground-up around these green stars)
So why is Mario 3D World so superior to Galaxy 2 in my perspective? There's several major reasons:
World Design
Playing through Mario 3D World made the flaws of Galaxy 2 more apparent. First off, and most importantly, is the fact that the world design felt far more polished, and the designers felt a lot more sure of themselves as to what they wanted the game to be. 3D World felt like Nintendo's deliberate move to transition Mario into "2D Mario but in 3D", whereas Galaxy 2 felt more wishy-washy. There were very pointed moves in this direction, not the least of which was the inclusion of visual elements that used to be found exclusively in the 2D games, such as using the flagpole at the end of a stage, slot machine bonus rounds, Toad houses, etc. The level design felt far more deliberate to imitate the 2D design by relying a lot more on the use of speed and momentum and maneuvering through tricky obstacles instead of the much slower handwave-y design of Mario Galaxy 2. Enemies, for instance, were kind of "paintbrushed" into the levels in both Galaxy games, whereas many enemies in 3D World were designed specifically to blend into the levels as obstacles.
Let's take the Octoombas in both Galaxy 2 and Mario 3D world and compare how they were used. In Galaxy 2 they wander aimlessly horizontally and shoot a single rock in Mario's direction, and can be easily dispatched with a star bit or a jump on the head. In Mario 3D World they're featured in the Super Galaxy level where they're completely static, meaning each time they were placed they were put there deliberately by the devs. Their projectiles aren't curved, but rather straight, and you can jump on top of them to get rid of them. Multiple Octoombas are placed in deliberate locations in Super Galaxy's rotating platforms so that they're not just a random enemy to be dispatched, they're clear and deliberate moves to limit the player's mobility. They're even used to prevent the player from getting one of the stars, since the Octoombas can destroy the brick block that makes getting that star possible if the player simply skips over them. They're also placed in front of the player facing backward, meaning the player is forced to jump to avoid the projectiles, which puts them at much higher risk of falling over than they otherwise would when the platforms rotate. Finally, they can only be dispatched via ground pound, which halts the player's movement that is very important in this particular level. This right here is a vital difference in how enemies are used. In Galaxy 2 they're simple mooks that are little more than level filler. In Mario 3D World they're brilliant obstacles that blend extremely well into the level design itself. This is just one example, there are many many more across all the levels and all the enemies.
Movement
Movement in Mario 3D World was altered heavily from Galaxy 2, in such a way that makes many of the levels in 3DW even possible to complete. First off is the use of a run button and the concept of momentum, which causes the player to go faster if they dash in a particular direction for a short amount of time. This in addition to the 8-directional movement as opposed to 360-degree movement seen in all Mario games until 3D Land makes the game's movement precise. Play 20 minutes of 3D World and 20 minutes of Mario Galaxy 2 back to back to really see this. The Galaxy series' movement is far floatier, slower, and less "acrobatic" (for the lack of a better word). Level designers can now easily throw in small and narrow obstacles next to wide and fast-moving rotating logs or platforms, or the infamous rotating Ice Cube from World 8 without batting an eye. They can throw in a lone boost block that requires the player to jump in a 90 degree angle toward a different direction because this new movement allows the player to turn on a dime. They can put rolling spike logs into see-saw platforms because they know the player can alter his/jump trajectory far more reliably than they ever could with Galaxy 2. This translates into far more inventive, elaborate, and just downright fun levels in 3D World. Sure the move count was smaller in number, but the movement itself was vastly improved and allowed for much better levels that went beyond simple floating platforms moving around like they were in Galaxy 2.
Power-Ups
Because the movement is far more precise this time around, power-ups were included to actually be useful across levels beyond being simple level gimmicks. Nintendo was far more confident to make projectile-based power-ups permanent since Mario & co. can actually aim fireballs and boomerangs in the desired direction far faster and more reliably. They also introduced the Cat Powerup, which allows wall climbing and attack-floating in such a way that it vastly improves the player's movement options. I can't tell you how many times I barely saved my skin from falling out of the stage with a few well-timed jumps and some quick wall climbing. These kinds of "barely-made-it" saves put some really good "spice" into the gameplay and is very reminiscent of 2D Mario. On the other hand, these kinds of "saves" are very rare, if not impossible" in the Galaxy games simply because the movement was that unsophisticated. Many of the power-ups in Galaxy 2 were simple in nature and very limited. Fire Mario was under a strict time limit (and very annoying music might I add), Boo Mario was extremely slow and only used in very few level gimmicks, Cloud Mario's movement advanage was also severely limited based on how powerful it was, and the less said about Spring Mario the better.
In short, 3D World's power-ups were so well designed you could complete all levels with them, and in nearly all cases they afforded the player multiple advantages in their own ways, whether it's easier dispatching of enemies (which, remember, they're far more significant to the level design in 3DW than in Galaxy 2, so that's important) or more creative use of movement. At the same time, Nintendo didn't rely on them so much that they made levels impossible to complete without them (at least the vast majority of the time), whereas if you have a Boo Mario powerup in Galaxy 2 the entire level segment was designed around Boo Mario, there's no variation in how you complete those levels. Giving players that choice and providing a different level completion experience based on what power-up they have or don't have makes the gameplay that much richer in 3DW.
"Story"
Mario Sunshine started an odd trend in giving a plotline to mainline Mario games. It was filled with cutscenes, dialog, and even (unfortunately godawful) voice acting. Mario Galaxy did tone it down, but there was a clear story line, including a lengthy backstory of their new character Rosalina. Galaxy 2 kind of got rid of the story, but in my opinion, and especially so after playing 3DW, this was half-assed. Galaxy 2, despite having a minimalistic story, was still stupidly verbose for no reason. Many friendly characters you came across during levels still stopped you dead in your tracks to talk some inane chatter to you. You still had to stop and read "THANK YOU!" or "OMG PLS HELP" whenever you came across a luma or Captain Toad. Lubba still told you some pointless thing whenever you beat nearly every non-green star in the game. "OMG NEW CHARACTER IN THE SHIP!!" "OMG WE'RE THAT MUCH CLOSER TO SAVING YOUR 'LOVED ONE'!!" "OMG LET ME TAKE YOU TO THE MUSHROOM ROOM BECAUSE YOU ENCOUNTERED A NEW MUSHROOM AND LET ME SAY POINTLESS SHIT" "OMG YOU GOT TO A NEW WORLD LET ME REITERATE HOW MUCH CLOSER YOU ARE TO SAVING YOUR 'LOVED ONE'!!!!" Too many interruptions and too much dialog that went absolutely nowhere.
Mario 3D World is a giant breath of fresh air in that regard. The game isn't "no story while still talking for no reason", the game is outright silent. The few "cutscenes" are of characters pantomiming quick little expressions while the game speeds along to the next level. There's no stupid chatter from Lubba or some other lame sidekick when you beat any level. Even Captain Toad who appears in random stages has no dialog, just a neat little animation or two as you figure out what to do to save him. Not only is it faster and more to the point, it's also more charming. It's more charming seeing Bowser with his smug-ass face capturing fairies in a pantomime rather than hearing his 10,000th generic declaration that he'll "crush Mario!!!" It speeds up the game, gives it more charm, and cuts needless filler. I still did like the story in Galaxy 1, but that's because they actually wrote a story. In Galaxy 2 they made the deliberate effort to NOT have a story, but at the same time they still interrupted you with inane dialog. Mario 3D World's treatment of a minimalist story is objectively better than Galaxy 2's.
World Map
This one is relatively minor, but I think it's yet another very obvious reason why 3DW does what Galaxy 2 tried to do much better. Galaxy 2, as I mentioned before, tried to have a "classic" world map, but it was very bare bones and uninspired in my opinion. Despite having a world map, it was strictly moving from left to right. It simply had icons floating on an empty space with a background thrown in the back. 3DW's world map, on the other hand, had full 3D geometry complete with coin boxes you could hit, peppered with little toad and stamp houses, slot machine houses that popped up every now and then, it even housed a few secrets with invisible warp pipes, etc. It provided a lot more of a visual treat and made traversing the worlds more fun than simply picking floating icons from a menu. Just looking at a screenshot of the two you and you see how much more inspired and elaborate the World maps are. I think it's important because these maps are truly the "glue" that holds both games together.
---
So, in conclusion, I think Galaxy 2 was a necessary step for Nintendo to transition 3D Mario back into the formulas they developed for 2D Mario, but at the same time I think the fact that it was a sequel to Galaxy 1 gave it a lot of unnecessary baggage, some really bland and imprecise movement that severely limited how fun traversing the levels could be, made it far less skill-based and more gimmick-based, and provided players with ultimately less options to complete levels. Mario 3D World I think is the better game of the two because it took what Galaxy 2 wanted to be and actually perfecting that formula instead of half-assing the transition.
Wow, that was long. I doubt anyone will read it but there you go! Thoughts?
SMG2's presentation and grandiose score I think are better than 3DW's so 3DW is IMO technically not better in every way, just nearly every way 
