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[Aizu_Itsuko]

Why does it have to be optimized?
Hz just refers to the refresh rate! That in isolation has nothing to do with gamespeed. try it out on your PC.

You can make your game logic framerate independent but I guess most of those games don't do that (consoles, known final framerate, etc), hence the slower speed/frame skipping on Pal games.

And some old systems just use lower clock speeds when running Pal games IIRC.

 

[Kandrick]

:lol at people in this thread saying there is no difference between a console game at 50 and 60 hz

 

[Dash Kappei]

I haven't tried the game yet, but if they have optimized it for 50Hz then it's fine.

It's not optimized, that's the point.

Why does it have to be optimized?
Hz just refers to the refresh rate! That in isolation has nothing to do with gamespeed. try it out on your PC. Set it to output at 24hz (if your screen can accept it for Blu-Rays) and watch a film/play a game. No difference in speed.

Pal doesn't only differ to NTSC in field rate (50 for Pal versus 60 for NTSC).
Because they didn't adapt the code for Madworld to run in PAL50, we have a game coded for 60Hz, 30fps and 480i game being displayed in 50Hz, 576i, 25fps.

The problem in MadWorld PAL is that the PAL50Hz mode is NOT OPTIMIZED.

Examples:

SONIC PAL vs SONIC NTSC

That results in:

1. losing 16,7% of speed, both for gameplay and music
2. losing 16,7% of the PAL50 screen resolution, so that you have black borders filling in for the missing data and the original image just being squashed (so fatty and short characters)

Missing the PAL60/NTSC selector blows, but something really minor than the game not being at least optimized to run in PAL50.

Yeah, it would've been a bummer nontheless missing the 60Hz mode, but:

1. PAL50 optimized means you "only" lose fluidity as you'll miss 5 frames per seconds in 30fps games (which become 25fps) and 10 fps in 60fps games (which become 50fps and in this case it's a lot more prominent, especially for racing games and such).
2. also, you gain in resolution, from 480 lines of image res (NTSC) to 576 lines (so, for example, you'll have less jaggies than its NTSC counterpart)
3. the optimization means there's no loss in speed for gameplay and the sound is adjusted to run at the right speed unlike non-optimized PAL50 games

Also, :lol :lol :lol :lol to people posting we shouldn't care because it's a Wii game.. what the fuck does that even mean? Are you retarded or something? I cared when I had a Super Famicom/SNES, because you know my money are as good as the ones used to pay US games.
It's like when idiots say you shouldn't care for graphics in Wii games, if they look like launch PS2 games it shouldn't matter because the fact we own a Wii means we are all about gameplay and waggle and Wii Sport. Fuckin' idiots... :lol

 

[VideoMan]

Well it was a pretty terrible game by all accounts. The official thread speaks for itself.. 20+ pages before release, but post release? oh.. 4 pages max. It was a pretty big letdown.

I don't understand. Why would you post something like this when everyone can just go look and see you're full of shit? :lol

 

[D-X]

If you own a Wii and you don't buy a copy of Madworld for £16.99 you're a fucking cock.

end of.

 

[lopaz]

SONIC PAL vs SONIC NTSC

That results in:

1. losing 16,7% of speed, both for gameplay and music
2. losing 16,7% of the PAL50 screen resolution, so that you have black borders filling in for the missing data and the original image just being squashed (so fatty and short characters)

:O Holy shiiit. I never knew! I always thought the Sonic 1 music sounded creepy and weird, now I know why

 

[Olinkstar689]

i bought a copy knowing i don't have the time to play it for about a month. at this price all u uk gamers of age should buy it to support a great developer who has had terrible luck with their game sales. people spend this much money on wasteful things anyway so why not give this a dip. if your a US gamer you should get it at targets buy 2 get one deal and try returning the 3rd game if you dont want three games or you can try TRU buy one get one 50%. Just give Madworld a chance

 

[Tranced Shadow]

Gah, I need to work out a good way to use the Nunchuk with my Cerebral-Palsy inflicted hand. I've been looking for ages for a way...

 

[D-X]

Well it was a pretty terrible game by all accounts. The official thread speaks for itself.. 20+ pages before release, but post release? oh.. 4 pages max. It was a pretty big letdown.

and fuck you, have you played the game?

 

[Shiggie]

It is, considering you chose to show a game from fifteen years ago instead of the game we're actually talking about.

wait...are these PALtards serious? I see no difference between the NTSC version. These guys sound like the whiners who were complaining about it not being 480p after praising its graphics not knowing it wasn't in 480p.

 

[Kandrick]

wait...are these PALtards serious? I see no difference between the NTSC version. These guys sound like the whiners who were complaining about it not being 480p after praising its graphics not knowing it wasn't in 480p.

AMERICA FUCK YEAH.

So pathetic. :lol

Dont talk unless you experienced it.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

Super Mario Galaxy set the bar too high. If it was released into the sea of mediocrity that makes up the 360 and PS3 game libraries, it would have a greater chance to be noticed. But released under the vicious rump of the world's greatest plumper adventurer in his greatest adventure to date? No chance, mang.

 

[Infernal Monkey]

I'm sure some people have already seen the borders, but if you haven't here it is.

Granted once you start maiming and killing you tend to notice it less, but still.

It's even worse on an SDTV! :]

 

[AceBandage]

Super Mario Galaxy set the bar too high. If it was released into the sea of mediocrity that makes up the 360 and PS3 game libraries, it would have a greater chance to be noticed. But released under the vicious rump of the world's greatest plumper adventurer in his greatest adventure to date? No chance, mang.

Or maybe it's that it's from Clover, a studio known for putting out high quality games that no one buys.
A real shame, too.
Okami, God Hand and Madworld all deserve to be big hits.

 

[EatChildren]

So, two pages later and still no-one has a side-by-side comparison of MadWorld to prove it runs slower?

Ok.

 

[Shiggie]

AMERICA FUCK YEAH.

So pathetic. :lol

Dont talk unless you experienced it.

So that video is fake then? It doesn't play like that?

 

[Volcynika]

So that video is fake then? It doesn't play like that?

Well Kandrick hasn't posted in the MadWorld thread, so they might not have even played the game!

/shuri-logic

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

Or maybe it's that it's from Clover, a studio known for putting out high quality games that no one buys.
A real shame, too.
Okami, God Hand and Madworld all deserve to be big hits.

Haven't played any of the other ones, but Okami was sort of bad.

 

[Kandrick]

So that video is fake then? It doesn't play like that?

It play slower. I played an imported NTSC version, and i played a PAL version at a friend's house, and it is a tad slower, with the black bars etc.

On another note, i bought Persona 4 PAL last week, and it is 50hz as well. When you have played both, its the first thing you notice when you move the character. Plus there is some frame skipping in cutscenes because of the conversion, barely noticeable, but when you see it, you cant unsee. But i guess its not so bad for a RPG.

Its no rocket science.

 

[AceBandage]

Haven't played any of the other ones, but Okami was sort of bad.

Not even close...

 

[D-X]

If you PAL players have a problem with PAL Madworld and wont buy it - FINE import it instead - but at least support Platinum Games

I had a huge problem with PAL No More Heroes (and I bitched about it at every opportunity - I wont deny that) so I went and bought a US copy and STILL supported the developers. That's main issue here - supporting the developers. I you have a PAL wii and don't know how to import - Twilight hack your system (it's really easy) and buy the US version. Support Platinum Games or go enjoy cheap family based games for the next few years - it's your choice, but don't fucking complain later.

 

[kamorra]

So that video is fake then? It doesn't play like that?

It does. I know we PALtards are all wrong because you cant spot a difference but the video runs at 25fps are you sure your NTSC version is not faster?

 

[fizzelopeguss]

:O Holy shiiit. I never knew! I always thought the Sonic 1 music sounded creepy and weird, now I know why

Seriously, fucking mindblown.

 

[John Harker]

This thread needs more gifs of awesome kills to save it

 

[Shiggie]

It play slower. I played an imported NTSC version, and i played a PAL version at a friend's house, and it is a tad slower, with the black bars etc.

On another note, i bought Persona 4 PAL last week, and it is 50hz as well. When you have played both, its the first thing you notice when you move the character. Plus there is some frame skipping in cutscenes because of the conversion, barely noticeable, but when you see it, you cant unsee. But i guess its not so bad for a RPG.

Its no rocket science.

It plays sower than the video? So it a fake then? And explain how its 'a tad' slower. give examples.

 

[VideoMan]

Here's videos of the PAL version and NTSC version running side by side.

http://tinyurl.com/cs7lfu

I honestly can't tell a difference in speed. Also if you notice during some of the special moves where the camera changes to the same pre-set angles that both PAL and NTSC have the same exact frame of view, meaning the PAL borders aren't cutting off any of the picture. In fact, if they had blown up the picture to fill the higher resolution of the PAL screen it would probably cause more jaggies and people would just complain about that instead.

Some people have tried to claim the music plays slower in the PAL version but you can hear for yourself that's not true.

In the end what you get in the PAL version is an exact pixel-for-pixel conversion of the NTSC version seemingly running at the same speed. The borders are a bummer but to remove them would most likely either cause jaggies (if they just upconverted the 480 image) or slowdown/framerate drops (if they actualy redesigned the game to render at the 576 PAL resolution which would take more processing power to do).

 

[wackojackosnose]

I didn't check out the sound but the video on the right was definately a lot smoother moving than the PAL game I played.

Not sure if youtube vids are best for comparison though, we'd probably need direct feeds for something more scientific.

 

[Dash Kappei]

In the end what you get in the PAL version is an exact pixel-for-pixel conversion of the NTSC version seemingly running at the same speed. The borders are a bummer but to remove them would most likely either cause jaggies (if they just upconverted the 480 image) or slowdown/framerate drops (if they actualy redesigned the game to render at the 576 PAL resolution which would take more processing power to do).

Now you'll probably get it in the wrong way, but man you nickname.
Videoman... really?
The least you could do is to make yourself informed.
Slowdown framerate drops to render the game for proper pal conversion? :lol
Blowin' out 480 images to make 'em fit PAL res? :lol
Where the hell did you find this kind of game?

Because for the former, it's likely the opposite: less slowdown. You know why? Because upscaling with less than a 100 lines is nowhere near as demanding as the engine having to render 5 to 10 frame per seconds more.
Games that have framerate stuttering in ntsc will very often have the proper pal converted version playing with a steady framerate, never the opposite. Simply because it renders less frames, and it is less smoother, but steadier and with less slowdown/stuttering.
The latter: what are you talkin about, really?? It would just output in PAL60 only, like Metroid Prime 2 for Gamecube, to give you an example. Different from, say, ICO PAL for PS2 which had obviously less jaggies when selecting the PAL50 version OR just outputting in straight NTSC when choosing the 60Hz selection.

In this case, they've tweaked some lines of code because the game plays at the same speed and sound, but the framerate is still missing 5 frames per second, thus the game playing less smoothly, and CONTROLLING less smoothly.

Another point, why would the game have a reduced field of view??
The borders in non-optimized PAL conversions aren't there cropping the image you know, they just make everything squashed: Since the PAL output isn't coded properly you'll have a 480i (in this case) filling for an image which, being 576 (visible lines), it's obviosuly not enough, so what it's being left out will be filled in by black bars. You don't have them horizontally because there the horizantal res it's the same.

As a result, you'll have your fatty and shorty everything and black bars on the top and bottom of the screen.
And it's AWFUL. It's fucking awful.


Here, I'll even use a shot from your own link, are you guys blind or something?

Now can we put this shit it to rest?
If you can put up with this kind of shit, well good for you but stop trying to justify awful Platinum games' and Sega's decisions, pointing the finger and treating as fucktards all the ones in this thread who aren't willing to be a part of the infamous "PAL gamers aren't worth shit" circle of 'ole.
Anybody interested in the game NOW knows what the deal is (I wish I'd knew it before having paid full price for it) and if:

• it's worth it going for discounted PAL sku,
• buying the NTSC version so to support an awesome game AND give the finger to awful 3rd world PAL support (which I personally did, so yes I've got two copies of the game, both bought at full price),
• or just not buy the game altogether.

Because, you know, some people can't be bothered to softmod their Wii but still, they also don't want to give Platinum the impression that it's ok to give us crap when we pay the same good money as the rest of the world does.

Damn.

 

[Tab0203]

... Now can we put this shit it to rest?
If you can put up with this kind of shit, well good for you but stop trying to justify awful Platinum games' and Sega's decisions, pointing the finger and treating as fucktards all the ones in this thread who aren't willing to be a part of the infamous "PAL gamers aren't worth shit" circle of 'ole.
...
Because, you know, some people can't be bothered to softmod their Wii but still, they also don't want to give Platinum the impression that it's ok to give us crap when we pay the same good money as the rest of the world does.

Damn.

.

 

[Sadist]

http://venturebeat.com/2009/04/06/sega-shows-off-next-big-olympics-game-and-targets-wiidsi/

VB: Sega is also going after the core audience with games like House of the Dead: Overkill and Mad World. How are consumers responding to those Mature-rated titles?

SR: House of the Dead has done very well and has absolutely met our expectations. The first set of data for Mad World is very encouraging, as well.

VB: Do you see franchise potential for Mad World with sequels?

SR: If it resonates with the audience, yes, we absolutely want to make that into a franchise. I think it’s unique, and there are many aspects of that game which are sort of pushing boundaries. And it’s just great fun.

Rejoice?

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Why wasn't it released in japan?

They can have shit like loli rape sims but Madworld is a no no?

What am I missing here? :/

Culture?

It's similar to America how you can have games like Manhunt where you cut peoples' heads off with a machete while showing boobs is a no no. Or how movies like Kill Bill and Hostel can receive "R" ratings while movies that contain mild sex such as The Dreamers are a set in stone NC-17 rating.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

http://venturebeat.com/2009/04/06/sega-shows-off-next-big-olympics-game-and-targets-wiidsi/


Rejoice?

Lulz at the people who thought House of the Dead bombed because of overinflated expectations. :lol

I'd still say we should wait for some more time to see how Madworld progresses.

 

[Dascu]

http://venturebeat.com/2009/04/06/sega-shows-off-next-big-olympics-game-and-targets-wiidsi/


Rejoice?

I'd still like some solid figures though. This could be some simple PR talk.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

I'd still like some solid figures though. This could be some simple PR talk.

Exactly the reason why I said we should wait to see how Madworld performs in the future.

 

[Sadist]

That's why I posted the question mark

Solid figures or Sega is full of it.

 

[John Harker]

http://venturebeat.com/2009/04/06/sega-shows-off-next-big-olympics-game-and-targets-wiidsi/


Rejoice?

In the same article they talk about how the traditional Olympic game is doing 'pretty good' when it sold like under 50k in N.A on each platform. so :lol . just sayin'.

North America = The World? I'd like to see the figures for that game in the UK and the rest of Europe. Titles don't always sell similar in each region.

He's from Sega of America talking about N.A. sales. So I was responding in kind. Yea he says it sells better in Europe, but the link was posted with information about N.A. sales so that's what I kept it to. Anyone can argue anything, what's the point? I was just making a statement.... it's PR spin

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

That's why I posted the question mark

Solid figures or Sega is full of it.

Well we have to put these games expectations to a realism. Just because these games were quality releases doesn't mean that SEGA's expectations were 1 million units sold.

In the same article they talk about how the traditional Olympic game is doing 'pretty good' when it sold like under 50k in N.A. so :lol . just sayin'.

North America = The World? I'd like to see the figures for that game in the UK and the rest of Europe. Titles don't always sell similar in each region.

 

[Sadist]

Nah, I'm aware of that. We don't have any figures about there budget, so eventually we can't even comment on that. Weird thing, sales age.

 

[woobit]

If you PAL players have a problem with PAL Madworld and wont buy it - FINE import it instead - but at least support Platinum Games

I had a huge problem with PAL No More Heroes (and I bitched about it at every opportunity - I wont deny that) so I went and bought a US copy and STILL supported the developers. That's main issue here - supporting the developers. I you have a PAL wii and don't know how to import - Twilight hack your system (it's really easy) and buy the US version. Support Platinum Games or go enjoy cheap family based games for the next few years - it's your choice, but don't fucking complain later.

You got it wrong. First they need to make a good and problem free game, THEN I'll buy. That being said, I will probably buy MadWorld when I find it really cheap...

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Now you'll probably get it in the wrong way, but man you nickname.
Videoman... really?
The least you could do is to make yourself informed.
Slowdown framerate drops to render the game for proper pal conversion? :lol
Blowin' out 480 images to make 'em fit PAL res? :lol
Where the hell did you find this kind of game?

Because for the former, it's likely the opposite: less slowdown. You know why? Because upscaling with less than a 100 lines is nowhere near as demanding as the engine having to render 5 to 10 frame per seconds more.
Games that have framerate stuttering in ntsc will very often have the proper pal converted version playing with a steady framerate, never the opposite. Simply because it renders less frames, and it is less smoother, but steadier and with less slowdown/stuttering.
The latter: what are you talkin about, really?? It would just output in PAL60 only, like Metroid Prime 2 for Gamecube, to give you an example. Different from, say, ICO PAL for PS2 which had obviously less jaggies when selecting the PAL50 version OR just outputting in straight NTSC when choosing the 60Hz selection.

In this case, they've tweaked some lines of code because the game plays at the same speed and sound, but the framerate is still missing 5 frames per second, thus the game playing less smoothly, and CONTROLLING less smoothly.

Another point, why would the game have a reduced field of view??
The borders in non-optimized PAL conversions aren't there cropping the image you know, they just make everything squashed: Since the PAL output isn't coded properly you'll have a 480i (in this case) filling for an image which, being 576 (visible lines), it's obviosuly not enough, so what it's being left out will be filled in by black bars. You don't have them horizontally because there the horizantal res it's the same.

As a result, you'll have your fatty and shorty everything and black bars on the top and bottom of the screen.
And it's AWFUL. It's fucking awful.


Here, I'll even use a shot from your own link, are you guys blind or something?

[IG]http://i42.tinypic.com/34jd5yv.jpg[/IMG]

Now can we put this shit it to rest?
If you can put up with this kind of shit, well good for you but stop trying to justify awful Platinum games' and Sega's decisions, pointing the finger and treating as fucktards all the ones in this thread who aren't willing to be a part of the infamous "PAL gamers aren't worth shit" circle of 'ole.
Anybody interested in the game NOW knows what the deal is (I wish I'd knew it before having paid full price for it) and if:

• it's worth it going for discounted PAL sku,
• buying the NTSC version so to support an awesome game AND give the finger to awful 3rd world PAL support (which I personally did, so yes I've got two copies of the game, both bought at full price),
• or just not buy the game altogether.

Because, you know, some people can't be bothered to softmod their Wii but still, they also don't want to give Platinum the impression that it's ok to give us crap when we pay the same good money as the rest of the world does.

Damn.

Petty... so petty.

Enjoy not having fun.

 

[pakkit]

Petty... so petty.

Enjoy not having fun.

He bought the game twice.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

He bought the game twice.

touche

still petty, not that I have the energy to form any sort of coherent agreement outside of that at this time in the morning.

 

[kamorra]

touche

still petty, not that I have the energy to form any sort of coherent agreement outside of that at this time in the morning.

No it's not. Instead of telling people that they have to deal with a broken PAL version and support the developers he explains in detail why it's not ok to accept it.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

He's from Sega of America talking about N.A. sales. So I was responding in kind. Yea he says it sells better in Europe, but the link was posted with information about N.A. sales so that's what I kept it to. Anyone can argue anything, what's the point? I was just making a statement.... it's PR spin

Ahh I see. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Then again he could have been comparing the game to the previous entries, then again what's worth arguing a measly 50,000 units?

 

[John Harker]

Ahh I see. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Then again he could have been comparing the game to the previous entries, then again what's worth arguing a measly 50,000 units?

Exactly. 50K is measly... measly for Olympics (maybe? those games always sell poorly in N.A.), but even more so for Overkill, which it didn't even sell that at launch, which is why I'm sad about it .

 

[Deleted member 30609]

No it's not. Instead of telling people that they have to deal with a broken PAL version and support the developers he explains in detail why it's not ok to accept it.

The guy clearly knows his stuff, and props to him for that. But I like to think that my experience with the game, in all its 50hz [anti]glory speaks for itself. I've covered how I felt about the whole thing pretty extensively earlier in the thread, so if you want my arguement, which still stands, check page two or so. I had an amazing time with the game, and the thought that some are missing out because they "don't want to support 50hz PAL conversions" (also covered in earlier posts) is a huge shame.

What this comes down to is confusion. I rented Madworld because I believed all the 50hz making the game shittier talk, played through the first two worlds, and then immediately took it back and bought it. The game played just fine. Having not been in possession of a superior NTCS version, the difference in frame rate didn't bother me (because there is no point of comparison for me, and there won't be for the majority of other PAL gamers), and having been playing all of my 360 games on a 16:10 monitor, I've long since been gotten used to black bars. So what I'm saying is that, in this case, yes, ignorance is bliss.

I would take issue with the 50hz quirks if they actually took away from the game, but the fact of the matter is that to someone like me, who is admittedly pretty tolerant of some audio-visual related things (and is pretty intolerant toward people who are overly fussy on the audio-visual side of things), it didn't. I feel comfortable in saying I got just as great an experience as I would have had I been playing in 60hz. Looking back on the game, I don't think "well, it was a good game, IF ONLY THE FRAME RATE WAS MARGINALLY BETTER" I look back on it and thing "holy shit, the stuff I got to do in that game was awesome".

People can take a stand against this sort of thing all they like, but in the end they're only stopping themselves, and the people unfortunate enough to believe that it really is an issue, from having a great time, and that is a shame.

 

[MNC]

Long ass rant

VideoMan
30% Failure Rate


jk, I love you all.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Exactly. 50K is measly... measly for Olympics (maybe? those games always sell poorly in N.A.), but even more so for Overkill, which it didn't even sell that at launch, which is why I'm sad about it .

50k is measly for an LTD but isn't that bad for an opening month for a game that isn't a blockbuster. No More Heroes opened with a similar amount and went on to perform over 200k.

 

[VideoMan]

Because for the former, it's likely the opposite: less slowdown. You know why? Because upscaling with less than a 100 lines is nowhere near as demanding as the engine having to render 5 to 10 frame per seconds more.

Eh, you obviously know more about this than I do, but I never claimed upscaling would cause slowdown, I said it might cause more jaggies due to converting to an odd resolution.

The latter: what are you talkin about, really?? It would just output in PAL60 only, like Metroid Prime 2 for Gamecube, to give you an example. Different from, say, ICO PAL for PS2 which had obviously less jaggies when selecting the PAL50 version OR just outputting in straight NTSC when choosing the 60Hz selection.

You seem to have misinterpreted my post somehow. I was trying to say that if they actually went ahead and altered the game to render at the higher PAL resolution it would take slightly more processing power and might cause a drop in the framerate. To use a real life example of this see God of War II HD mode. It bumped the resolution just a bit higher than 480p but at the cost of framerate.

Admittedly when I posted that I was not taking into account the possibility that MadWorld runs native at 60fps and the conversion to 50fps would in itself use a little less processing power.

The rest of my post was to address the incredible amount of FUD going around about the PAL release of this game such as slower gameplay speed, slowed down audio and cropping all of which is not true. Yes, PAL users should be informed about the shortcomings of that version but there are people on this forum and other websites spreading out and out lies about this game.

 

[kamorra]

The guy clearly knows his stuff, and props to him for that. But I like to think that my experience with the game, in all its 50hz [anti]glory speaks for itself. I've covered how I felt about the whole thing pretty extensively earlier in the thread, so if you want my arguement, which still stands, check page two or so. I had an amazing time with the game, and the thought that some are missing out because they "don't want to support 50hz PAL conversions" (also covered in earlier posts) is a huge shame.

What this comes down to is confusion. I rented Madworld because I believed all the 50hz making the game shittier talk, played through the first two worlds, and then immediately took it back and bought it. The game played just fine. Having not been in possession of a superior NTCS version, the difference in frame rate didn't bother me (because there is no point of comparison for me, and there won't be for the majority of other PAL gamers), and having been playing all of my 360 games on a 16:10 monitor, I've long since been gotten used to black bars. So what I'm saying is that, in this case, yes, ignorance is bliss.

I would take issue with the 50hz quirks if they actually took away from the game, but the fact of the matter is that to someone like me, who is admittedly pretty tolerant of some audio-visual related things (and is pretty intolerant toward people who are overly fussy on the audio-visual side of things), it didn't. I feel comfortable in saying I got just as great an experience as I would have had I been playing in 60hz. Looking back on the game, I don't think "well, it was a good game, IF ONLY THE FRAME RATE WAS MARGINALLY BETTER" I look back on it and thing "holy shit, the stuff I got to do in that game was awesome".

People can take a stand against this sort of thing all they like, but in the end they're only stopping themselves, and the people unfortunate enough to believe that it really is an issue, from having a great time, and that is a shame.

So you had fun with the game? That's great, you wont hear me giving you names because of that. I wont call you petty. Yes, with buying the game you maybe show the developers that it is ok to produce a inferior PAL version which could have been easily fixed. And if enough people do that their next game maybe will be exactly like this one. Still, I will accept that because it's you decision. Look I know that you are a reasonable guy, I just think that I or anyone how thinks like me should also be allowed to express his point of view without calling names or hysterical "you have to support the developers!1!" discussions.