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Magic: The Gathering |OT|

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T

Takuan

Member
I had an interesting situation during the release last Friday that I had briefly explained to me, but I still don't quite understand the step-by-step process. Here's the scenario:

My opponent was attacking, and had cast that white Flashback instant that gives all creatures +2/+0. I was able to block 3 of his attackers, but another 3 were able to get through and deal lethal damage to me. However, one of my blockers was a Falkenwrath Noble. All my blockers would have died, as well as my opponent's blocked creatures, meaning I would gain 6 life (enough to survive) and he would lose 6 life (which would have killed him).

It was explained to me that the lethal damage resolves first and means an immediate loss; the Falkenwrath Noble's ability couldn't happen. I know the person who gave the explanation, and he is one of the best players in the store (and I think the entire province of Ontario), so I'm sure he's right. I'm just curious how that works out, stack-wise, because I took his word for it at the time and swiftly moved onto game 2.
 
F

f0rk

Member
Hex said:
Ratchet Bomb is your friend.
Play it, sac it and every token dies.
You do not need any counters on it.
Click to expand...

I feel like this will only work against bad players who just play their hand out all day. If they get some Lingering Souls in the yard and some anthems / Sorin on the board they can stay alive and keep chipping away while staying alive and always threatening to go big.

Can't decide whether to keep my 2 Sorin's and make a token deck or trade them while they're hot and get a RUG Werewolf / Control brew going.
 
U

ultron87

Member
Takuan said:
It was explained to me that the lethal damage resolves first and means an immediate loss; the Falkenwrath Noble's ability couldn't happen. I know the person who gave the explanation, and he is one of the best players in the store (and I think the entire province of Ontario), so I'm sure he's right. I'm just curious how that works out, stack-wise, because I took his word for it at the time and swiftly moved onto game 2.
Click to expand...

All the combat damage happens simultaneously. This causes your life to go to zero. Having 0 life gives an immediate game loss as a state based action. State based actions are checked every time a player gets priority and any that apply happen immediately before anything on the stack resolves.

Some of the other state based actions are the other game loss conditions (poison counters and decking), a creature having 0 toughness going to the graveyard, and tokens that aren't on the battlefield going away.

So once the thing that made you go to 0 life finishes resolving (in this case combat damage) you instantly lose before anything else on the stack can happen.

Here's a chart:

10152009smith1.jpg
 
O

OnPoint

Member
Question about undying as a mechanic: Can you play an instant before the ability triggers the creature out of the graveyard?

For example: My opponent plays Geralf's Messenger and it gets shocked. The creature then hits the graveyard, triggering undying. In response to the undying trigger, can I play a Surgical Extraction on it before it comes into play?
 
R

Ravager61

Member
OnPoint said:
Question about undying as a mechanic: Can you play an instant before the ability triggers the creature out of the graveyard?

For example: My opponent plays Geralf's Messenger and it gets shocked. The creature then hits the graveyard, triggering undying. In response to the undying trigger, can I play a Surgical Extraction on it before it comes into play?
Click to expand...

Yes you can respond to the undying trigger with a surgical extraction. Undying hits the stack once the messenger is in the graveyard allowing you to respond. You could also stifle the ability I believe.
 
C

Crocodile

Member
I'm hearing rumblings that WOTC is teaming up with Twitch.tv to help promote Magic streaming. Details are scare (if this is true) but it is encouraging to hear.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
What would be really awesome is a spectator mode in something like MTGO, where they duplicate the tables digitally so people can see minute details.

But something like that would be really difficult to sync up.
 
O

OnPoint

Member
The Dark Ascension event decks are up, come out on Feb 24

Gleeful Flames

4 Forge Devil
4 Goblin Arsonist
4 Goblin Fireslinger
4 Goblin Gaveleer
1 Hellrider
3 Torch Fiend

4 Artillerize
4 Brimstone Volley
1 Curse of Stalked Prey
2 Faithless Looting
4 Goblin Grenade
3 Infiltration Lens

3 Haunted Fengraf
2 Inkmoth Nexus
17 Mountain

SIDEBOARD
2 Act of Treason
4 Arc Trail
1 Dismember
2 Gut Shot
3 Into the Core
3 Torpor Orb
Click to expand...

Spiraling Doom

1 Acidic Slime
1 Bloodgift Demon
1 Brutalizer Exarch
1 Hex Parasite
1 Morkrut Banshee
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Perilous Myr
1 Phyrexian Rager
3 Skinrender
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Stingerfling Spider
4 Strangleroot Geist
1 Viridian Corrupter
4 Viridian Emissary
1 Wakedancer
4 Young Wolf

2 Birthing Pod
2 Diabolic Tutor
3 Doom Blade
1 Mortarpod

2 Evolving Wilds
14 Forest
1 Grim Backwoods
8 Swamp

SIDEBOARD
1 Acid Web Spider
3 Autumn's Veil
1 Beast Within
1 Despise
1 Dismember
4 Distress
1 Entomber Exarch
1 Gravedigger
1 Myr Sire
1 Wakedancer
Click to expand...
 
Y

y2dvd

Member
Gleeful Flames comes with 2 Inkmoth Nexus, a Dismember, 4 Arc Trails, and some Gut Shots. I would've easily bought this deck for those alone if I didn't already have a set of them.
 
N

narcosis219

Member
kirblar said:
I'm not speaking literally- I'm speaking in terms of how it actually plays.
Click to expand...

Oh, are you talking about DOTP?

In the case of DOTP, there IS an end phase, but it is the 3 seconds you get before M2 phase ends.

Notice how when you click "continue" to end your M2 that you can't cast anything other than instants. Likewise, your opponent may stop the timer at any time. It's functionally the end step.
 
K

kirblar

Member
narcosis219 said:
Oh, are you talking about DOTP?

In the case of DOTP, there IS an end phase, but it is the 3 seconds you get before M2 phase ends.

Notice how when you click "continue" to end your M2 that you can't cast anything other than instants. Likewise, your opponent may stop the timer at any time. It's functionally the end step.
Click to expand...
No, I mean as in "Your untap step technically begins your turn. However, your opponent's end step is really when your turn begins, because your opponent is restricted to instant-speed actions. Hence, this is why Flash creatures and instant speed effects are so good."
 
A

An-Det

Member
Crocodile said:
I'm hearing rumblings that WOTC is teaming up with Twitch.tv to help promote Magic streaming. Details are scare (if this is true) but it is encouraging to hear.
Click to expand...

I should hope so. SCG kicks their asses in that regard, and what they do stream (Pro Tour top 8's) is terrible since they pan around the room more than actual show the players and the game. Hell, even individual players (like Kibler and Sacher, both of whom stream often) beat them in it.

stubarnes said:
The GP Lincoln playmat is freaking amazing:

http://sketchcardsaloon.wordpress.c...gic-the-gathering-grand-prix-lincoln-playmat/

Now if they would just give us some new squirrel cards to play on it...
Click to expand...

That's fucking awesome.
 
D

divisionbyzorro

Member
narcosis219 said:
Oh, are you talking about DOTP?

In the case of DOTP, there IS an end phase, but it is the 3 seconds you get before M2 phase ends.

Notice how when you click "continue" to end your M2 that you can't cast anything other than instants. Likewise, your opponent may stop the timer at any time. It's functionally the end step.
Click to expand...

This isn't how it works; at least on Xbox. When you press 'Y' to pass second main, you can still pause the game and cast sorceries.
 
C

CarbonatedFalcon

Member
The rarest game you own thread over on the gaming side had me going through my Magic collection. I got a good deal of my older cards from my uncle around maybe 2002 or 2003.

Anyway, I definitely have a collection worth at least several hundred dollars, a good portion of the value due to some Revised (I'm pretty sure) Dual Lands. Taiga, Savannah, Tropical Island, etc.

Did find a Sensei's Diving Top which is supposed to be worth roughly $10 - near mint (Wasn't this card banned?). I have quite a few more cards in that range or the couple buck range than anything else close to those dual lands though.

Also went through the rare Pokémon cards I kept in the same spot (not sure where all my others went - if they're stored or I got rid of them.) Some decent value there too. Never had nearly as many of those as MTG cards though.
 
O

OnPoint

Member
Carbonated - I like the feeling of finding old cards you forgot you had or didn't know were valuable. I was just going through my box of blue the other day and I found an Intuition (Tempest - $35) an a Standstill (Odyssey - $6) just hanging out. They got plastic'd up real quick.

Your duals are definitely worth a pretty penny. I wish I bought more back in the day. A guy was selling some around here in the cardshop I go to -- a big box of old cards for like $1000 -- but I couldn't justify paying market value for a few duals and a shitton of other cards I'll never use.
 
T

Takuan

Member
ultron87 said:
All the combat damage happens simultaneously. This causes your life to go to zero. Having 0 life gives an immediate game loss as a state based action. State based actions are checked every time a player gets priority and any that apply happen immediately before anything on the stack resolves.

Some of the other state based actions are the other game loss conditions (poison counters and decking), a creature having 0 toughness going to the graveyard, and tokens that aren't on the battlefield going away.

So once the thing that made you go to 0 life finishes resolving (in this case combat damage) you instantly lose before anything else on the stack can happen.

Here's a chart:

10152009smith1.jpg
Click to expand...

Thanks for the explanation and chart. Very helpful!

Event Decks are probably among the best sealed products Wizards has ever released. Great value, particularly if your LGS doesn't gouge. The new releases look very good, and both offer nice value (even though there's still an imbalance value-wise thanks to the red deck getting 2x Inkmoth).

Lmao @ the Lincoln GP playmat. That's pretty awesome.
 
U

ultron87

Member
That M12 Vampire Event Deck annoyed me. The vast majority of the cards in it were going to rotate out of Standard a little more than a month after it released. And almost none of the cards were from M12.
 
J

joelseph

Member
Made a fun little Red/Black DA draft deck last night that did pretty well. Lots of sorcery and instant.

Also had decent success with two DA decks I threw together before the event. Blue/Black Zombie and White/Black/Green Human.

Fun times were had.
 
O

OnPoint

Member
ultron87 said:
That M12 Vampire Event Deck annoyed me. The vast majority of the cards in it were going to rotate out of Standard a little more than a month after it released. And almost none of the cards were from M12.
Click to expand...

It was incredibly poor timing. But the deck was AWESOME
 
U

ultron87

Member
Got my DA fat pack yesterday. My only mythic was a Helvault.

But I got some solid stuff for a spirit deck. So that should be fun.

I used most of it to do a 2-played draft with one of my friends. That was a fun way to kill an hour.
 
B

Boogiepop

Member
Two questions about gang blocking.

First off, can someone gang block more than there is damage to be blocked? For example, I have a 1/1 with first strike, can my opponent assign two 1/1s to block it so it dies?

Also, how does gang blocking work with Bushido? Does it get the +X/+X for each blocking creature in the gang block, or does the gang block only count as a single instance of being blocked? (Bushido is the +X/+X for when the creatures blocks or becomes blocked.)

Oh, and any good places to get slightly older starter decks for a fair price? I kinda want the Bushido theme deck from Kamigawa, but Amazon doesn't seem to have it...
 
U

ultron87

Member
Mank said:
Two questions about gang blocking.

First off, can someone gang block more than there is damage to be blocked? For example, I have a 1/1 with first strike, can my opponent assign two 1/1s to block it so it dies?

Also, how does gang blocking work with Bushido? Does it get the +X/+X for each blocking creature in the gang block, or does the gang block only count as a single instance of being blocked? (Bushido is the +X/+X for when the creatures blocks or becomes blocked.)
Click to expand...

I'm assuming by gang blocking you just mean blocking with multiple creatures? You can block with as many legal blockers as you want. The attacker picks the order in which the damage is assigned to the blockers.

I've never seen Bushido as a mechanic before, but I think you just get the bonus once for being blocked no matter how many creatures are doing the blocking.

I found some old cards that gave Banding yesterday. I forgot how nonsensical that ability was.
 
O

OnPoint

Member
I have some old-school friends who wish banding was still around. I played when it was relevant and I still don't totally understand how it works. Banding was a total mess and I'm glad it's gone.

I still miss mana burn though. I also miss mana lasting your entire turn.

vvv Happened before I got back into it vvv
 
R

Ravager61

Member
The only thing I miss was being able to put damage on the stack. I still think it was a mistake getting rid of that rule. It's not a hard rule to learn and all getting rod of it did was make a lot of cards much worse.
 
S

Sinatar

Official GAF Bottom Feeder
OnPoint said:
I have some old-school friends who wish banding was still around. I played when it was relevant and I still don't totally understand how it works. Banding was a total mess and I'm glad it's gone.
Click to expand...

Whats not to get? When a banding guy attacks he can protect another creature and their HP is pooled till the end of the turn.
 
N

narcosis219

Member
Mank said:
Two questions about gang blocking.

First off, can someone gang block more than there is damage to be blocked? For example, I have a 1/1 with first strike, can my opponent assign two 1/1s to block it so it dies?

Also, how does gang blocking work with Bushido? Does it get the +X/+X for each blocking creature in the gang block, or does the gang block only count as a single instance of being blocked? (Bushido is the +X/+X for when the creatures blocks or becomes blocked.)

Oh, and any good places to get slightly older starter decks for a fair price? I kinda want the Bushido theme deck from Kamigawa, but Amazon doesn't seem to have it...
Click to expand...

From the rules:

Rules said:
510.5. If at least one attacking or blocking creature has first strike (see rule 702.7) or double strike (see rule 702.4) as the combat damage step begins, the only creatures that assign combat damage in that step are those with first strike or double strike. After that step, instead of proceeding to the end of combat step, the phase gets a second combat damage step. The only creatures that assign combat damage in that step are the remaining attackers and blockers that had neither first strike nor double strike as the first combat damage step began, as well as the remaining attackers and blockers that currently have double strike. After that step, the phase proceeds to the end of combat step.

704.1. State-based actions are game actions that happen automatically whenever certain conditions (listed below) are met. State-based actions don’t use the stack.

704.5g If a creature has toughness greater than 0, and the total damage marked on it is greater than or equal to its toughness, that creature has been dealt lethal damage and is destroyed. Regeneration can replace this event.
Click to expand...

This implies that a first strike creature always hits first on every blocker, so in your example of a 1/1 first strike blocking two 1/1, the first strike creature will deal damage greater than each blocker's toughness and the state-based actions will remove them. 1/1 first strike survives unscathed.

EDIT: Derp, i read it as 2/1 first strike. The first strike creature dies because it can only kill 1 of the blockers. It will deal 0 damage to the second blocker, and the second blocker will survive to deal 1 damage. The first 1/1 blocker will die dealing no damage.
 
F

f0rk

Member
narcosis219 said:
From the rules:



This implies that a first strike creature always hits first on every blocker, so in your example of a 1/1 first strike blocking two 1/1, the first strike creature will kill both and take no combat damage.
Click to expand...

No if the creature has 1 power it can only do 1 point of damage. It would kill one dude and then die to the other.
 
F

Freakinchair

Member
narcosis219 said:
From the rules:



This implies that a first strike creature always hits first on every blocker, so in your example of a 1/1 first strike blocking two 1/1, the first strike creature will kill both and take no combat damage.
Click to expand...

Sorry - this is wrong. If a 1/1 first strike creature is blocked by two 1/1's then only one of the 1/1's will die and the first strike creature will die. The creature with first strike only has one damage to assign, regardless of whether it has first strike or not. If he had double strike both defending 1/1's would die.
 
Y

y2dvd

Member
That's what banding do? Allows you to share HP pool? I would run it with those fairly cheap, high hp blue zombie creatures then!
 
N

narcosis219

Member
f0rk said:
No if the creature has 1 power it can only do 1 point of damage. It would kill one dude and then die to the other.
Click to expand...

Freakinchair said:
Sorry - this is wrong. If a 1/1 first strike creature is blocked by two 1/1's then only one of the 1/1's will die and the first strike creature will die. The creature with first strike only has one damage to assign, regardless of whether it has first strike or not. If he had double strike both defending 1/1's would die.
Click to expand...

Yeah I had a brain fart and the 1/1 was 2/1 in my mind lol. fixed it.

Has anyone triple drafted a small set before? Is it really all that bad? My friends want to crack a box to draft from, but I'm not sure a DA box would be the best for drafting based on what I've heard
 
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