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[Dram]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57584805-504083/john-welden-fla-man-tricked-his-girlfriend-with-abortion-drug-that-killed-unborn-child-report-says/

John Andrew Welden, a 28-year-old son of a Tampa fertility doctor, was charged with first degree murder on Tuesday for allegedly tricking his girlfriend into taking the abortion drug that killed her unborn child, according to CBS affiliate WTSP.

According to prosecutors, Welden forged his father's signature on a prescription for Cytotec after a March ultrasound at his father's practice confirmed the pregnancy. Welden allegedly relabeled the pill bottle as "Amoxicillin" and told his girlfriend to take the antibiotic.

The federal indictment stated Welden "...intentionally attempted to kill and did kill, the unborn child," said WTSP.

He was denied bail on Wednesday and could face up to life in prison.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/16/john-andrew-welden-kill-girlfriend-fetus_n_3284959.html

According to court documents, the couple met in mid-2012 and became romantically involved. Lee became pregnant in February 2013 and was elated about her pregnancy when she told Welden the news. Welden, however, urged Lee not to have the baby.

In late March, the records say, Lee went to the office of Dr. Stephen Welden, her boyfriend's father, for an exam.

Court records say Welden told Lee that his father had discovered she had a bacterial infection and had prescribed an antibiotic, Amoxicillan, to treat her.

Lee and her attorney – along with federal prosecutors – say Welden forged his father's signature on a prescription for Cytotec and relabeled a pill bottle as "Amoxicillin." Cytotec, known also as misoprostol, is a drug used to induce labor.

Welden said she began to bleed while at work and went to the hospital – where she discovered that she had been given the drug used in medically induced abortions.

Court records say Welden told Lee while she was at the hospital that he had given her Cytotec, not Amoxicillin. Lee is suing Welden for battery, intentional infliction of emotional harm, and punitive damages.

Update
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/man-who-tricked-girl-into-taking-abortion-pills-gets-prison/

A Tampa man has been sentenced to nearly 14 years in prison for tricking his pregnant ex-girlfriend into taking a pill he believed would cause her to have a miscarriage.

A federal judge sentenced John Welden on Monday to 13 years and eight months in prison. He must also pay $28,541 in restitution.

Welden pleaded guilty in September to tampering with a consumer product and conspiracy to commit mail fraud. He had faced a possible life sentence if convicted of his original charge, killing an unborn child.

Welden admitted in a plea agreement that he forged the signature of his father, who is a Tampa-area obstetrician.

 

[CountAntonius]

Good charge.

 

[chickdigger802]

And I thought forging my dad's signature for detention slips was bad...

So how was this genius caught?

 

[Hari Seldon]

Wow this is going to open up a shitstorm.

 

[ultron87]

That should definitely be considered an incredibly serious crime regardless of the legal definition of the unborn child.

 

[Omegasquash]

Well, he's scum.

 

[NathanMcMahon]

Good luck with that charge prosecutors.

 

[Hari Seldon]

That should definitely be considered an incredibly serious crime regardless of the legal definition of the unborn child.

Now I consider it a serious crime (as I am generally against abortion), however, how can one be charged with murder when if the mother did it, it would not be murder? Note that I am saying murder here, since obviously he needs to be charged with at least something for faking the pills.

 

[Freshmaker]

That should definitely be considered an incredibly serious crime regardless of the legal definition of the unborn child.

At the very least poisoning someone tends to be viewed dimly.

 

[CyclopsRock]

I don't really understand this. If she'd voluntarily taken it, it's not murder? That seems a bit... bizarre.

 

[ChainedMaster]

I don't really understand this. If she's voluntarily taken it, it's not murder? That seems a bit... bizarre.

She didn't voluntarily take it...she was tricked. Read the title.

 

[CountAntonius]

Now I consider it a serious crime (as I am generally against abortion), however, how can one be charged with murder when if the mother did it, it would not be murder? Note that I am saying murder here, since obviously he needs to be charged with at least something for faking the pills.

That is really a tough one.

 

[NathanMcMahon]

She didn't voluntarily take it...she was tricked. Read the title.

He did read it and understood it. He was pointing out the discrepancy in the two scenarios

 

[CyclopsRock]

She didn't voluntarily take it...she was tricked. Read the title.

Sorry, the "she's" was meant to be "she'd". It was a question - IF she'd taken it voluntarily, would it have been murder"? I've edited for clarity.

 

[aparisi2274]

I don't really understand this. If she'd voluntarily taken it, it's not murder? That seems a bit... bizarre.

Did you read the article?? It said that he relabeled the bottle to say "Amoxacilian" and he told her to take that, which is an antibiotic... What was in the bottle was a pill that killed her unborn child, because he did not want to be a father.

 

[Philia]

the couple met in mid-2012 and became romantically involved. Lee became pregnant in February 2013 and was elated about her pregnancy when she told Welden the news. Welden, however, urged Lee not to have the baby.

LOL, less than a year old relationship and a baby in the picture? GENIUS.

 

[Represent.]

Life in Prison? That's fucked up.

 

[ChainedMaster]

He did read it and understood it. He was pointing out the discrepancy in the two scenarios

Ah I see. Well in that case, the law is clear that the woman has a right to her own body. The guy had no right to do what he did.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

I don't think this should be murder, or even manslaughter, as it opens up for some pretty nasty precedents (Why wouldn't it be murder or manslaughter if the woman had voluntarily taken the pill for an example?).

Definitely battery, grievous bodily harm, assault, mental harm, etc, etc.

 

[smr00]

Did she not notice it looked nothing like an antibiotic let alone amoxicillin? Not trying to put any fault on her and maybe it's just because i am on antibiotics all the time but after looking up the drug she was tricked into taking, looks nothing like an antibiotic and i would of immediately looked up what it was before taking it.

But then again i am extremely weird about taking any kind of pill unless i know 100% what it is, i won't even go on the doctor/pharmacies word. Still, guy is a fucking piece of shit.

 

[nateeasy]

Life in Prison? That's fucked up.

So is killing someone's child.

 

[Kinyou]

Charging him with assault would probably make more sense.

Guy definitely deserves some jail time though.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Did you read the article?? It said that he relabeled the bottle to say "Amoxacilian" and he told her to take that, which is an antibiotic... What was in the bottle was a pill that killed her unborn child, because he did not want to be a father.

I know. I was just confirming that " If she'd voluntarily taken it, it's not murder?"

 

[ultron87]

Now I consider it a serious crime (as I am generally against abortion), however, how can one be charged with murder when if the mother did it, it would not be murder? Note that I am saying murder here, since obviously he needs to be charged with at least something for faking the pills.

I guess in the case of the mother the fetus is part of her body so she can do what she wants with it. You can't get in legal trouble for cutting off a finger intentionally (as far as I know?), but if someone else did it there would be a charge. Murder probably isn't the correct charge, but it does give the appropriate level of consequences, in my opinion. But then you shouldn't charge people based on what "feels right".

 

[idlewild_]

Ah I see. Well in that case, the law is clear that the woman has a right to her own body. The guy had no right to do what he did.

I don't think anyone is arguing that he had any right to do what he did, just that it is inconsistent to charge him with murder.

 

[Hitokage]

Now I consider it a serious crime (as I am generally against abortion), however, how can one be charged with murder when if the mother did it, it would not be murder? Note that I am saying murder here, since obviously he needs to be charged with at least something for faking the pills.

The difference between cutting yourself and somebody else cutting you against your will.

 

[SlipperySlope]

So women are allowed to murder their unborn babies, but men aren't?

 

[questionmark]

I am a strong supporter of abortion. But I can get behind this charge. The reason I support abortion is because I don't really give a shit whether a fetus can be considered alive or not, none of that matters (to a certain point obviously), the only thing that matters to me is the womans right to choose whether or not to carry the baby to term. The woman in this case was cruelly robbed of that choice in this case. Disgusting act, which needs to be punished severely. The exact charge brought against him is not really important to me personally, just as long as it is strict.

 

[kswiston]

She didn't voluntarily take it...she was tricked. Read the title.

The reason abortion is not murder is because fetuses are not human beings under the law (at least before a certain gestation period). If the mother could legally abort the fetus, than this guy (the father?) could not have committed murder through his actions since no person was killed. It wouldn't surprise me if the prosecutors are trying to set a legal precedence that could be used against abortion in general though. Isn't Florida the same state where legislators are trying to pass a law against racial/gender discrimination in abortions?

This guy should be charged with whatever law covers willfully poisoning a person, wreckless endangerment, etc. Those charges should be sufficient to land him jail time.

 

[stufte]

So I'm not trying to say one is equal to the other, but:

If a mother gets an abortion without the consent of the father, it's ok. But if the father gets an abortion without the consent of the mother, it's murder?

 

[dojokun]

Ah I see. Well in that case, the law is clear that the woman has a right to her own body. The guy had no right to do what he did.

No one's disagreeing with that. The issue is the murder charge.

 

[ProfessorLobo]

So is killing someone's child.

You can't call it a embryo when you feel like being pro choice and then call it a child otherwise.

I'm not exactly sure what crime should be charged here. Certainly not murder. Destruction of property?

 

[cyberheater]

Can you murder someone who hasn't been born yet?

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Life in Prison? That's fucked up.

Putting aside whether prision is a good punishment, how is that the thing you focus on here?

He fucking poisoned her, causing the baby she very much wanted to die!

It's fucking monstrous.

 

[dojokun]

I am a strong supporter of abortion. But I can get behind this charge. The reason I support abortion is because I don't really give a shit whether a fetus can be considered alive or not, none of that matters (to a certain point obviously), the only thing that matters to me is the womans right to choose whether or not to carry the baby to term. The woman in this case was cruelly robbed of that choice in this case. Disgusting act, which needs to be punished severely. The exact charge brought against him is not really important to me personally, just as long as it is strict.

...

I'm leaving this thread before I say something that gets me banned.

 

[demon]

I don't see how you can be for abortion being legal but agree with this sentence. Either way the fetus is being aborted. How is it not murder if the mother chooses to do it? Not that the guy shouldn't face prison time but it seems really logically inconsistent.

 

[nateeasy]

If someone beats up.a pregnant woman. And the baby dies. That someone can get charged with murder. It happens.

 

[Trouble]

I don't think this should be murder, or even manslaughter, as it opens up for some pretty nasty precedents (Why wouldn't it be murder or manslaughter if the woman had voluntarily taken the pill for an example?).

Definitely battery, grievous bodily harm, assault, mental harm, etc, etc.

Yeah I'm in the same boat. Guy is a total shitheel, but I don't like the precedent a murder conviction could set. I'm fine with a super harsh sentence on par with what murder would get, but not the actual charge itself.

 

[Hari Seldon]

The difference between cutting yourself and somebody else cutting you against your will.

True, but if someone cuts your finger off they won't be charged with murder. Murder implies that another human has died. There is attempted murder for trying to murder someone and they live. And this is first degree murder, which is life in prison / death penalty.

There is no consistency here. If the fetus is not a human, then how can one be charged with murder for killing it? If it is just a part of the female body, then the same charges for cutting off a finger should apply (what would that be? attempted murder of the mother?)

 

[Tacitus_]

So I'm not trying to say one is equal to the other, but:

If a mother gets an abortion without the consent of the father, it's ok. But if the father gets an abortion without the consent of the mother, it's murder?

While I'm not in favor of the murder charge, it is the woman's body - and feeding someone wrong meds can wreak all sorts of havoc.

 

[LiK]

Use a condom.

 

[Sanky Panky]

It's murder.

After the mother has made the conscious decision to carry the baby through the pregnancy, for an outside party to purposefully induce the death of the future child constitues as a heinous crime.

And I'm pro abortions.

 

[TAJ]

Did you read the article?? It said that he relabeled the bottle to say "Amoxacilian" and he told her to take that, which is an antibiotic... What was in the bottle was a pill that killed her unborn child, because he did not want to be a father.

You're still not getting it. This is fuel for the anti-choice fire.
The guy is scum, but this worries me.

 

[stufte]

While I'm not in favor of the murder charge, it is the woman's body - and feeding someone wrong meds can wreak all sorts of havoc.

Definitely. The guy is in the wrong for sure, but murder? Hrm. Seems like someone is trying to set a precedent for future anti-abortion legislation.

 

[syllogism]

Took me a while to realize that it's actually a federal charge, which makes it all the more baffling. I suppose it's under the Unborn Victims of Violence Act?

 

[ChainedMaster]

The reason abortion is not murder is because fetuses are not human beings under the law (at least before a certain gestation period).

Do you have a source for this? I'm pretty sure that abortions rights are tied to Roe v. Wade, which based their decision on the 14th Amendment. Because a fetal after viability isn't considered a legal person either.

 

[Eighty Deuce]

This is the beginning of a massive shitstorm, I never thought the abortion debate would take this turn.

 

[NaughtyCalibur]

This thread is going to be a graveyard, I can see it already.

Anyway, dude is a fucking piece of shit, but life in prison seems like a bit much. 10, 15 years max and I think he'd more than learn his lesson. The point of prison is to rehabilitate after all, and I see no reason to assume this selfish, sick fuck is beyond rehabilitation. It's not like he's Jeffrey Dahmer.

But that's just me.

*waits for the impending shitstorm*

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

LOL, less than a year old relationship and a baby in the picture? GENIUS.

More concerning is the fact he tricked his girlfriend into aborting it, but you know, focus on whatever.

 

[GulAtiCa]

What a monster..

I feel sad for the woman and her her lost potential child.