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[Audioboxer]

Okay, so yes, your position here is that, no matter how odious my political positions or how dangerous they are to others and what suffering I might impose on them, if people yell at me in a public place, they are wrong.

To be clear: this is why I say that you go into every thread to advocate acquiescence to fascism. Because it keeps happening.

He was doing more than just yelling, and sorry, doing it on a plane where security and cabin staff have to make it a safe place for everyone to travel is never going to be acceptable. Nor are you ever going to get away with it. Think about that, and again, if you disagree with me, you go and try it on a flight and see how YOU get on.

Maybe you'll be able to say, that Audioboxer, what a fascist, I've proven him wrong! Airline X allowed me to act aggressive and congratulated me because it was a bad person I did it to, right?

 

[FroJay]

Reading comprehension is a thing you know. If you didn't notice I said rightly or wrongly shes gonna be a target of peoples anger because she is a active member of the circus that is the trump administration. I am not excusing the guys actions that is on him but lets not pretend she is not a part of the bs.

Snarky comment, future posts ignored. You know being a decent human being is a thing right. You're excusing his actions indirectly by saying she's gonna be a target because she is an active member of the circus. That's inadvertently excusing it, or making it acceptable. It's not and never will be. A shocking number of peopel think this is okay.....it's not.

 

[PopeReal]

We went high and most often than not Dems got kicked in the shins. See current situation in North Carolina.

General discourse these days is shitty either way across the isle.

Both sides?

Lol fight back, don't lay down.

 

[marrec]

I would like to understand what limit to political speech people believe should exist here.

The line is when it becomes harassment.

There are ways to express our political discontent and to fight back against our political foes.

Those ways are not by harassing Ivanka Trump and her family on a flight, or harassing her at the baggage claim.

 

[Skellig Gra]

That's why I asked specific questions for you to clarify.

Are you saying that it is inappropriate in all situations to express anger at Ivanka?

Also, for the record, are you really claiming that harassing people verbally and white supremacy and sexual assault are equivalent morally?

I'm saying that it wasn't a protest at all, it was nothing more than a temper tantrum. If you want to protest something you should be specific and intelligent about your message.

 

[PopeReal]

I'm saying that it wasn't a protest at all, it was nothing more than a temper tantrum. If you want to protest something you should be specific and intelligent about your message.

Protest isn't defined that way.

 

[Isaac Otherworld]

Quite right. She's a private individual.


Anyone else shocked she's traveling on JetBlue?

Is Daddy's alleged wealth not as liquid as he pretends?

Can we really say that's the case though? She's advising him and sitting in with him on all of his meetings with public officials and world leaders. Seems a lot like a public figure to me.

 

[Kthulhu]

Ivanka seems like a nice person, perhaps I'd be dating her if she weren't Donald Trump's daughter.

Lmao.

 

[marrec]

Christ what is happening to the Left we've all lost our damned minds lol

 

[studyguy]

Both sides?

Lol fight back, don't lay down.

Seems like the guy voicing his concerns on the plane did just that.

I don't see what people here have issue with here. Ivanka and Kushner are directly responsible for Trump and his lackeys. People will inevitably direct their ire towards them, and rightfully so, in the future. The fact that it happens in a baggage claim or whatever doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things.

If someone completely complicit in helping another deny you your rights, you don't suddenly put up some kind of pretext of understanding in a moment that causes inconvenience. Why would people care? No one is hurt here, man voices his dissent, escorted off.

Likely this is just the first of many issues like this. No one seemed surprised when Biden had his dead son lobbed at him in protest but this suddenly is too much?

 

[pigeon]

He was doing more than just yelling, and sorry, doing it on a plane where security and cabin staff have to make it a safe place for everyone to travel is never going to be acceptable.

If you read my posts, you'll see I have already noted that doing it on a plane will get you kicked off the plane.

 

[ClosingADoor]

She's an adult that campaigned for him and appears to be part of his white house, so she's fair game for protest. Not all protest is productive though.

Harassing someone is not the same as protesting though.

 

[Ryzaki009]

What happened to they go low we go high?

People realized that's not how it works.

 

[Brakke]

Why do you guys think there would be Secret Service around? She's not part of the administration. 😒

 

[Skellig Gra]

Protest isn't defined that way.

So what I said isn't a protest but this is?

"Ivanka and Jared at JFK T5, flying commercial. My husband chasing them down to harass them."

 

[Audioboxer]

If you read my posts, you'll see I have already noted that doing it on a plane will get you kicked off the plane.

And the reasoning for that? Don't you think if you do it in an airport baggage terminal and/or out on the street in public you'll get security/cops on you? If so maybe follow the line of logic that behaving like this isn't going to get you anywhere productive other than in trouble/banned/ejected. None of that has anything to do with you saying "Audioboxer you are some sort of fascist".

Unless someone is the aggressor towards you, you're going to get little sympathy going around being an aggressor to others. Especially in spaces such as an airport/aeroplane.

 

[gutter_trash]

Rule #1 on a plane, don`t harass ANYONE period,

that goes for everybody

 

[NoMoreTrolls]

Have some fucking grace, Jesus. This kind of shit just gives the right ammunition.

 

[marrec]

So what I said isn't a protest but this is?

Clearly the best way to protest the Trump administration is to make yourself look like a fuckwit on a plane.

 

[PopeReal]

So what I said isn't a protest but this is?

He wasn't protesting.

I am just saying in general it is not defined that way.

 

[Ray Wonder]

Christ what is happening to the Left we've all lost our damned minds lol

I feel like the pre-election left shattered into like 8 different lefts

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Harassing someone is not the same as protesting though.

According to the witness account, there really wasn't harassment. Just disdain voiced.

And given she is working with the administration, participating in meetings, giving advice, campaigning, etc., she isn't exactly taking a passive role. She's actively supporting a white supremacist, racist, and fascist while trying to get even more ahead and involve her family/husband more.

 

[Dr. Benton Quest]

The line is when it becomes harassment.

There are ways to express our political discontent and to fight back against our political foes.

Those ways are not by harassing Ivanka Trump and her family on a flight, or harassing her at the baggage claim.

Seems like your solution is to smile while you lick their boots in public, then complain about them behind a keyboard.

She actively supports a Kleptocratic fascist. People yelling at you comes with the territory.

I swear some of you would take the high road straight into a political prison.

 

[Jmanunknown]

Snarky comment, future posts ignored. You know being a decent human being is a thing right. You're excusing his actions indirectly by saying she's gonna be a target because she is an active member of the circus. That's inadvertently excusing it, or making it acceptable. It's not and never will be. A shocking number of peopel think this is okay.....it's not.

Its too funny your talking about decent human beings when talking about trump and his three older children but I digrees I am just pointing out this is not gonna be the first or last time she deals with this type of situation whether the person is in the right or not. Also thank you for ignoring me doesn't bother me enjoy your life.

 

[gutter_trash]

I feel like the pre-election left shattered into like 8 different lefts

there is not Left or Right when flying, there is only STFU and sit down in your seat, don`t bother people

 

[PopeReal]

Have some fucking grace, Jesus. This kind of shit just gives the right ammunition.

The guy deserved to be kicked off.

But can we please stop this "more ammunition" bullshit? Please?

They don't give a fuck about how you act or what you say. They are going to do what they do.

Stop worrying about ammunition.

 

[pigeon]

The line is when it becomes harassment.

In the part of my post you cut, I asked how to define that point. You've skipped that step!

There are ways to express our political discontent and to fight back against our political foes.

Those ways are not by harassing Ivanka Trump and her family on a flight, or harassing her at the baggage claim.

Why not?

Genuinely, it's unclear to me why you feel people who have worked hard to advance the cause of white supremacy should be entitled to common courtesy everywhere they go. Why are you bent on normalizing them?

I'm saying that it wasn't a protest at all, it was nothing more than a temper tantrum. If you want to protest something you should be specific and intelligent about your message.

I mean, I haven't watched the video. The guy might be stupid, I dunno. Doesn't change the underlying question. I feel like "you should not support white supremacy" is a pretty specific and intelligent message, but I'm open to the suggestion that this guy didn't do a good job of advancing it.

​

And the reasoning for that? Don't you think if you do it in an airport baggage terminal and/or out on the street in public you'll get security/cops on you? If so maybe follow the line of logic that behaving like this isn't going to get you anywhere productive other than in trouble/banned/ejected. None of that has anything to do with you saying "Audioboxer you are some sort of fascist".

I mean, saying that you shouldn't yell at Nazis because they will call the police to suppress you isn't a NON-fascist position, let me just put it that way.

I am really more interested in the moral question here than the practical limitations on political speech. Ultimately the practical limitations derive from our moral perspectives, at least in a just society.

 

[akileese]

I'm fucking tired of having to be nice to pieces of shit. She's going to profit off of rigging the system and the corruption taking root. She used a phone call with the Prime Minister of Japan to edge her products into the country. She's gonna send us all to hell while laughing to the bank. She's on the goddamn transition team. Fuck. Her.

You know you can throw shade at someone without causing a scene and inconveniencing the other passengers, who by the way, are just trying to get through their holiday travels.

 

[Ray Wonder]

there is not Left or Right when flying, there is only STFU and sit down in your seat, don`t bother people

Oh, I agree. I'm just speaking in general

 

[The Faceless Master]

why was she flying coach?

where was the secret service?

Have some fucking grace, Jesus. This kind of shit just gives the right ammunition.

they have more ammo than they ever needed. they already won.

this does nothing from an ammo perspective.

however it is a dirtbag move.

 

[Audioboxer]

In the part of my post you cut, I asked how to define that point. You've skipped that step!



Why not?

Genuinely, it's unclear to me why you feel people who have worked hard to advance the cause of white supremacy should be entitled to common courtesy everywhere they go. Why are you bent on normalizing them?



I mean, I haven't watched the video. The guy might be stupid, I dunno. Doesn't change the underlying question. I feel like "you should not support white supremacy" is a pretty specific and intelligent message, but I'm open to the suggestion that this guy didn't do a good job of advancing it.

​

I mean, saying that you shouldn't yell at Nazis because they will call the police to suppress you isn't a NON-fascist position, let me just put it that way.

I am really more interested in the moral question here than the practical limitations on political speech. Ultimately the practical limitations derive from our moral perspectives, at least in a just society.

It's cute how this altercation is "just yelling bro" for some of you to do some mental gymnastics around it. They weren't on a debate panel and getting a bit rowdy. She was sitting down on a plane and got harassed.

The moral question is simple. Especially if you want to call yourself a leftist or liberal, do not act like an aggressive asshole when it isn't the time and place. If it makes me a fascist to point that out, then yeah, you wonder why I am attacking liberals and leftists for losing the damn plot. It seems some others in this topic are doing the exact same!

 

[Mega]

Am I crazy or does this whole thing seem staged?

Why the hell is she flying coach?

Why is there no Secret service around?

This whole thing is fishy as fuck imo.

To you and all the others with similar lines of questioning:

Does it matter why she was flying on Jet Blue coach? That airline is comfortable whether it's coach or first class. And regardless if it wasn't and she was flying on a crappy plane, she has a right to be there without any explanation. Maybe she couldn't charter a private jet to get somewhere on time. Maybe first class was sold out. Maybe this was the quickest and most convenient tickets she could get for herself and her kids. Whatever.

It's such a ridiculous thing to focus on because you hate the entire Trump family and desperately need to look for reasons to not accept that she was legitimately being harassed by some asshole. It's weird how all of a sudden it's now okay to question, concern troll and victim blame when a woman out alone with her kids is being harassed by a man.

 

[Night Angel]

why was she flying coach?

where was the secret service?

Like, what's the relevance here?

 

[Lights and Waves]

Headline:

GAYS attack poor Ivanka!

Relatable Ivanka flies commercial airline!

 

[Dr. Benton Quest]

You know you can throw shade at someone without causing a scene and inconveniencing the other passengers, who by the way, are just trying to get through their holiday travels.

Hahaha yeah let me just go tweet how gosh darn diggily mad I am at them! Useless.

Harassing someone is not the same as protesting though.

It literally is. Sit-ins harass business owners, marches harass traffic and police, counter protests harass gatherings.

 

[AstroLad]

Ivanka is an immigrant? Born in NY? What am I even reading

Child of an immigrant, yes...just like Obama.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Was she flying on JetBlue to pretend she's a normal person or something? Dad has this jet with TRUMP written on it you know...

 

[MIMIC]

People here think it's OK to harass Ivanka?

God, this is like that stupid Thanksgiving "advice" thread. How is it possible for people to not get that harassing individuals over their voting preferences (or members of their families) isn't OK? You should take a break from politics if you're supporting this type of behavior.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

Why are we all glossing over the fact her kids were with her? That makes it worse than if she was alone.

 

[PopeReal]

I wonder who is lecturing the right today about behaving nicely and to "not give the left more ammunition".

I am guessing no one. The guy got kicked off. Your finger waving has been noted.

 

[Velcro Fly]

It is sometimes hard but we need to be better. Cannot resort to things like this.

 

[Riposte]

People here think it's OK to harass Ivanka?

God, this is like that stupid Thanksgiving "advice" thread. How is it possible for people to not get that harassing individuals over their voting preferences (or members of their families) isn't OK? You should take a break from politics if you're supporting this type of behavior.

That thread doesn't get old.

 

[pigeon]

The moral question is simple. Especially if you want to call yourself a leftists or liberal, do not act like an aggressive asshole when it isn't the time and place.

As I have pretty explicitly already said, I don't think a position that says "no matter what somebody believes or attempts to advance in the world, yelling at them is morally wrong" is a moral one. I think it's an appeasing one, focused on negative peace and attempting to get along with white supremacists. This might seem like an appealing strategy for a white European. As an American of color, I don't see it the same way.

 

[marrec]

Seems like your solution is to smile while you lick their boots in public, then complain about them behind a keyboard.

She actively supports a Kleptocratic fascist. People yelling at you comes with the territory.

I swear some of you would take the high road straight into a political prison.

Seems like you're making hyperbolic assumptions in an attempt to shame me into proving how anti-fascist I am.

I've been on the streets protesting before and after the election and do more than you probably do to support the progressive left in my city and state so sit the fuck down and listen to the adults okay?

She's part of a far-right white nationalist political movement that has unfortunately gained quite a bit of power in the last year. We must do everything we can to limit the damage they will do to our nation so that we don't have to spend too much time fixing their fuckups when the left is back in power.

That, however, doesn't involve harassing them on public transportation or in places like airports, coffee shops, and rock concerts. They are still citizens of America and as such have the protection of the law of America. The second we start acting like wild animals whenever they show up is when we start losing.

Is Ivanka Trump giving a speech that has content you disagree with? Protest that shit, loudly and boldly.

Is Ivanka Trump not doing shit just flying in the same airplane as you? Shut the fuck up and fly and don't be a pissant.

I wonder who is lecturing the right today about behaving nicely and to "not give the left more ammunition".

I am guessing no one. The guy got kicked off. Your finger waving has been noted.

Who gives a shit who is being the moral police of the right, they're a bunch of assholes and we're supposed to be better, not just a socially progressive version of their assholery.

 

[Mega]

Was she flying on JetBlue to pretend she's a normal person or something? Dad has this jet with TRUMP written on it you know...

Does she have the jet in her back pocket at all times or did you not think her dad has priority use on it or it was in use elsewhere? Does any of this matter at all?

If a woman gets harassed on a public bus to work are you going to question what she was doing there when she owns two cars?

 

[Ryzaki009]

As I have pretty explicitly already said, I don't think a position that says "no matter what somebody believes or attempts to advance in the world, yelling at them is morally wrong" is a moral one. I think it's an appeasing one, focused on negative peace and attempting to get along with white supremacists. This might seem like an appealing strategy for a white European. As an American of color, I don't see it the same way.

yep. It's pretty rich reading stuff like that I'll say.

 

[Ray Wonder]

I wonder who is lecturing the right today about behaving nicely and to "not give the left more ammunition".

I am guessing no one. The guy got kicked off. Your finger waving has been noted.

shut the thread down nothing to see here lol

That's not how news works, there's like 500 Trump threads with 99.9% finger waving posts in it. People will post their thoughts, every single new person coming into the thread isn't going to be like "Oh that person said that, no need to say anything in this thread"

 

[Audioboxer]

As I have pretty explicitly already said, I don't think a position that says "no matter what somebody believes or attempts to advance in the world, yelling at them is morally wrong" is a moral one. I think it's an appeasing one, focused on negative peace and attempting to get along with white supremacists. This might seem like an appealing strategy for a white European. As an American of color, I don't see it the same way.

I'm not sure how playing the race/identity card on me makes a difference. As I've said to you numerous times, whatever moral experiment you are playing right now, go about behaving like this aggressor has and see how far it gets you towards your goals, whether they are political, moral, or whatever. I can assure you you'll sooner find yourself ejected, banned, or facing trouble with the law. I don't know how any of that would further your goal or prove a point to me, but if you must you can take your hypothesis and thoughts and try putting them into action.

I would suggest not lumping these two groups together. Leftists are much more militant than American liberals and do not give a shit about 'proper etiquette'.

Not sure I agree? Many on the sides of progressive, social and "liberal" parties classify themselves as on the left. If you're just trying to say there are people on the left without etiquette and social decency, then yeah, I know that, they are seen very often shouting, screaming and calling people names. One would say this man who was kicked off the plane is a good example!

 

[Dr. Benton Quest]

The moral question is simple. Especially if you want to call yourself a leftist or liberal, do not act like an aggressive asshole when it isn't the time and place.

I would suggest not lumping these two groups together. Leftists are much more militant than American liberals and do not give a shit about 'proper etiquette'.

 

[MIMIC]

Why are we all glossing over the fact her kids were with her? That makes it worse than if she was alone.

A passenger on the flight tells TMZ Ivanka ignored the guy and tried distracting her kids with crayons.

And this also makes it worse :-/