Support NeoGAF

[BassForever]

Simplifying fighting games to encourage casual players has never fucking worked. Not once. It's infuriating that developers still try to trot out that line for it, too. I can't tell if they're dumb enough to believe it or just trying to work the PR angle.

Ultras were supposed to be a comeback mechanic to keep players in the game in SF4, but it's more likely that a pro will make better use of it, while a scrub will just whiff and waste it on wake-up.

Any dunce can do some damage with X-Factor, but you're more likely to be shredded by Wong's XF1 Wolverine who knows how to kill all of your characters before they can do anything or a competent XF3 Vergil who can clean up when things go south.

I like that SF5's input buffer is a lot more lenient than in prior entries of the series, but quite a lot of the faces seen at Capcom Cup 2016 are the same as in 2015.

Even fucking Smash Bros has only 2 attack buttons, but Melee also happens to have the most consistent tournament results of any fighting game ever. Because the people who place well just know how to play the game better than the rest of the competition. And there were even plenty of posts here on GAF complaining that Smash 4 was too complicated when that game was released.

You can dumb down Infinite as much as you like. It won't change a thing. The dedicated players will be the ones who get results, and the people who can't handle their losses or figure out how to learn from them will throw in the towel and move on with their lives as soon as they're tired of taking a beating online.

You're looking at what Capcom and other fighting devs are doing and drawing the wrong conclusion. They aren't simplfying these games so that everyone can take on Justin Wong and compete at evo, they're simplfying the game so that anyone can pick up the game and have casual fun with friends or against the ai. The balance of easy to pick up, great high level depth, and tons of content for single player and local friends is why a game like MKX can sell 5 million copies a number only the of sf2 has managed to eclipse.

 

[TheDinoman]

The X alternate costume for Zero didn't count?

...no, it didn't count for so many reasons, lmao.

 

[JayEH]

Simplifying fighting games to encourage casual players to stick with them has never fucking worked. Not once. It's infuriating that developers still try to trot out that line for it, too. I can't tell if they're dumb enough to believe it or just trying to work the PR angle.

Ultras were supposed to be a comeback mechanic to keep players in the game in SF4, but it's more likely that a pro will make better use of it, while a scrub will just whiff and waste it on wake-up.

Any dunce can do some damage with X-Factor, but you're more likely to be shredded by Wong's XF1 Wolverine who knows how to kill all of your characters before they can do anything or a competent XF3 Vergil who can clean up when things go south.

I like that SF5's input buffer is a lot more lenient than in prior entries of the series, but quite a lot of the faces seen at Capcom Cup 2016 are the same as in 2015.

Even fucking Smash Bros has only 2 attack buttons, but Melee also happens to have the most consistent tournament results of any fighting game ever. Because the people who place well just know how to play the game better than the rest of the competition. And there were even plenty of posts here on GAF complaining that Smash 4 was too complicated when that game was released.

You can dumb down Infinite as much as you like. It won't change a thing. The dedicated players will be the ones who get results, and the people who can't handle their losses or figure out how to learn from them will throw in the towel and move on with their lives as soon as they're tired of taking a beating online. Nothing you can do can keep the latter group around; that's a mindset problem that can't be solved through game development.

all of your examples are pro vs casual though. of course there will always be pro players out there that will kick everyone's ass. just because SFV has an input buffer doesn't mean in the first year of capcom we'll see me at capcom cup top 8. there's nothing wrong with trying to get more players in with small steps like this. it's not like the game is rolling thunder all of a sudden which is too far in the wrong direction imo. execution is an important part of fighting games and it should stay that way but making a few things more accessible is only a good thing.

You're looking at what Capcom and other fighting devs are doing and drawing the wrong conclusion. They aren't simplfying these games so that everyone can take on Justin Wong and compete at evo, they're simplfying the game so that anyone can pick up the game and have casual fun with friends or against the ai. The balance of easy to pick up, great high level depth, and tons of content for single player and local friends is why a game like MKX can sell 5 million copies a number only the of sf2 has managed to eclipse.

yep this is what im getting at. good post.

 

[Skab]

Bass.EXE would be a sick addition. However, I would prefer Zero and Sigma get the priority Mega Man status.

Zero should be the lowest priority possible

 

[1upsuper]

What do you guys think the chances are of Arthur or Red Arremer coming back? I love Ghosts n Goblins and I really don't want to lose them...

Edit: I'd also really like to see Roll return!

 

[Azure J]

The X alternate costume for Zero didn't count?

This one was unfortunate due to the timing of its release. It hit right at the time when Inafundme was kicked out, all Megaman projects were dropped (that Super Megaman Maker game + Legends 3 + Legends 3 Prototype project) and the most people were getting were BBAMM in SFxT and the alt-that-was-still-Zero in UMVC3.

That entire period of time was annoying to be a fan of the series/character(s) since it was either crocodile tears because "muh Megaman" or people reveling in the schadenfreude.

 

[Karsticles]

Marvel 3 was easy? That's news to me and probably anyone else that plays/played the game at a high level.

Stupid as fuck sometimes? Yes. Easy? Hell no.

Marvel 3 was the easiest fighting game ever made.

 

[Sponge]

What do you guys think the chances are of Arthur or Red Arremer coming back? I love Ghosts n Goblins and I really don't want to lose them...

I'm hoping they come back, too. I'm also hoping we can get Viewtiful Joe back.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

You're looking at what Capcom and other fighting devs are doing and drawing the wrong conclusion. They aren't simplfying these games so that everyone can take on Justin Wong and compete at evo, they're simplfying the game so that anyone can pick up the game and have casual fun with friends or against the ai. The balance of easy to pick up, great high level depth, and tons of content for single player and local friends is why a game like MKX can sell 5 million copies a number only the of sf2 has managed to eclipse.

But the finer points of the gameplay are irrelevant for that kind of stuff. You get way more mileage out of just having more worthwhile content: lengthy single-player modes, lots of unlockables, etc. That's where games like Smash Bros or Mortal Kombat truly shine when it comes to getting people interested who aren't really concerned with competition beyond their roommates.

It's not like you ever had to learn how to construct a good team if all you were worried about in the first place was just beating your other scrub friend on the couch sitting next to you.

 

[Skab]

Marvel 3 was the easiest fighting game ever made.

Maybe to someone who already knows how to play fighters at a higher than average level.

I still don't know how players do some of the things they do in that game.

 

[Troubled Bat]

I'm pretty sure that Viewtiful Joe would come back.

 

[SpiceMelange]

Marvel 3 was the easiest fighting game ever made.

Divekick

 

[Durden77]

Marvel 3 was the easiest fighting game ever made.

 

[Already Torn]

What do you guys think the chances are of Arthur or Red Arremer coming back? I love Ghosts n Goblins and I really don't want to lose them...

Edit: I'd also really like to see Roll return!

If Spencer is back I imagine Arthur has to

 

[BronsonLee]

Marvel 3 was the easiest fighting game ever made.

It was until SFV popped into the party IMO

 

[cordy]

Yeah the X costume for Zero didn't count at all and besides that, they both play pretty differently in the actual X series. In this game? We haven't seen much from X to make that determination but we do know he punches and kicks more than Zero. We'll have to see. For all we know he'll have a move that grants him the "Fourth Armor" and his moves are powered up a bit. We don't know.

 

[Harpoon]

What do you guys think the chances are of Arthur or Red Arremer coming back? I love Ghosts n Goblins and I really don't want to lose them...

Edit: I'd also really like to see Roll return!

Arthur and Firebrand are two of my top picks.

 

[OmegaSmash]

Even at the easiest level imaginable, Marvel 3 is a lot of fun.

 

[Calm Mind]

That gameplay was not impressive at all. It reminded me of Netherealms handy work. Dead eyes, stiff animations, overly dark backgrounds and too much focus on realism. This does not inspire confidence in the game whatsoever. Also, I stand by my previous statement that Capcom will fuck it up with preorder shenanigans and DLC bullshit until they actually release a complete game a year later with 3v3. Because 2v2 is just not going to cut it.

 

[Anth0ny]

Marvel 3 was easy? That's news to me and probably anyone else that plays/played the game at a high level.

Stupid as fuck sometimes? Yes. Easy? Hell no.

Marvel 3 had a very low skill floor, but a high skill ceiling. Anyone could pick up Wesker or Wolverine and do LMHS MMHS combos. This wasn't the case with any other Versus games. Of course, at the top level, that's when things get crazy. But guess what? Marvel Infinite scrubs are going to get fucked just as hard by top players. that's ALWAYS how it is.

Somehow they think making Marvel more accessible than 3 is the answer. I don't get it.

Simplifying fighting games to encourage casual players to stick with them has never fucking worked. Not once. It's infuriating that developers still try to trot out that line for it, too. I can't tell if they're dumb enough to believe it or just trying to work the PR angle.

Ultras were supposed to be a comeback mechanic to keep players in the game in SF4, but it's more likely that a pro will make better use of it, while a scrub will just whiff and waste it on wake-up.

Any dunce can do some damage with X-Factor, but you're more likely to be shredded by Wong's XF1 Wolverine who knows how to kill all of your characters before they can do anything or a competent XF3 Vergil who can clean up when things go south.

I like that SF5's input buffer is a lot more lenient than in prior entries of the series, but quite a lot of the faces seen at Capcom Cup 2016 are the same as in 2015.

Even fucking Smash Bros has only 2 attack buttons, but Melee also happens to have the most consistent tournament results of any fighting game ever. Because the people who place well just know how to play the game better than the rest of the competition. And there were even plenty of posts here on GAF complaining that Smash 4 was too complicated when that game was released.

You can dumb down Infinite as much as you like. It won't change a thing. The dedicated players will be the ones who get results, and the people who can't handle their losses or figure out how to learn from them will throw in the towel and move on with their lives as soon as they're tired of taking a beating online. Nothing you can do can keep the latter group around; that's a mindset problem that can't be solved through game development.

Nailed it.

 

[BronsonLee]

Marvel 3 had a very low skill floor, but a high skill ceiling. Anyone could pick up Wesker or Wolverine and do LMHS MMHS combos. This wasn't the case with any other Versus games. Of course, at the top level, that's when things get crazy. But guess what? Marvel Infinite scrubs are going to get fucked just as hard by top players. that's ALWAYS how it is.

Somehow they think making Marvel more accessible than 3 is the answer. I don't get it.

Easier to pick up + story mode = we got a stew going

 

[Scrub Mcgrubb]

oooooh god damn, combo has spoken

That mindset just makes me so sad... there's a whole generation of gamers that are used to instant gratification and if your game makes you feel the least bit frustrated- that's considered bad design.

You don't see them removing keys from pianos or taking strings of guitars because "it's too hard".... god damn generation of powder puffs.... get off my damn lawn!

 

[Anth0ny]

Easier to pick up + story mode = we got a stew going

I think story mode is a much bigger draw for casual players than making it easier to pick up. Story mode and playable character roster.

 

[Karsticles]

Maybe to someone who already knows how to play fighters at a higher than average level.

I still don't know how players do some of the things they do in that game.

I started playing MvC3 as a huge scrub. So I feel I have a valid opinion in terms of its ease of play. Going from MvC3 to BlazBlue was a huge kick in the sack in terms of difficulty - I quit BB after a week because it was too hard to learn the characters. Now I find the game very manageable, but I'm an experienced player some 5 years later.

Divekick

Dive Kick is a harder than average game because it's all fundamentals. You have to really understand fighting games to win consistently in Dive Kick. In Marvel you can just Tatsu + Berserker Slash or Teleport + Beam assist to close the gap and have free offense, and then ABC your way to good damage.

It was until SFV popped into the party IMO

SFV still demands strong fundamentals and execution for links.

What makes MvC3 FEEL more difficult is that the skill ceiling is much higher than 90% of fighting games, and it's less random than most, so if someone is better than you it will be felt.

 

[Beats]

Was Marvel 3 hard to just pick up and play? The game had a Simple Mode control scheme with a one button attack that combo'd into itself, one button specials with directional inputs and one button supers. I guess if you wanted to get really deep into it then it would feel difficult, but that goes for most fighting games even Smash.

I feel like the worthwhile story mode, single player content, unlockables, and good roster will do more for the game than simplifying the combat for everyone. But idk.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

oooooh god damn, combo has spoken:

Spoiler

that was actually Sakurai talking about Melee. but I'm getting the same vibes from this game

Thanks for making loads of people above me think that Combofiend said this about Marvel 4.

 

[racketpunch]

Marvel 3 was easy? That's news to me and probably anyone else that plays/played the game at a high level.

Stupid as fuck sometimes? Yes. Easy? Hell no.

This game is stupid easy compared to the previous Marvel installment.

People who put in time are still going to do work on the ones who don't. If they want to cater to the masses then I think they need to beef up single player. I want my plink dashes and tri dashes back in Infinite. Don't care if some people aren't able to do it themselves if they don't want to invest the lab time.

 

[PadWarrior]

Bass.EXE would be a sick addition. However, I would prefer Zero and Sigma get the priority Mega Man status.

Agreed.

 

[BronsonLee]

I think story mode is a much bigger draw for casual players than making it easier to pick up. Story mode and playable character roster.

I think all three matter to some degree, but MvC in particular has a pretty good rep for being accessible to begin with, compared to say VF

But yeah they should use MKX as the model for success, not SFV tbh

SFV still demands strong fundamentals and execution for links.

I could stumble into my apartment on every drug known to man and still probably be more dangerous in SFV than other games

 

[Azure J]

What do you guys think the chances are of Arthur or Red Arremer coming back? I love Ghosts n Goblins and I really don't want to lose them...

I don't know about probabilities, but these guys are great and should stay alongside stuff like Amaterasu, Viewtiful Joe, Phoenix, etc. This game should aim to add more from vintage Capcom stuff versus completely reshuffling the deck imo. Power Stone, Rival Schools, Cyberbots, CapCom, Breath of Fire + stuff like Gene (God Hand), Ruby Heart (General VS. Series/Darkstalker in concept only).

 

[Moaradin]

This game looking more like TvC is probably the most exciting news to me lol

 

[TheDinoman]

I don't know about probabilities, but these guys are great and should stay alongside stuff like Amaterasu, Viewtiful Joe, Phoenix, etc. This game should aim to add more from vintage Capcom stuff versus completely reshuffling the deck imo. Power Stone, Rival Schools, Cyberbots, CapCom, Breath of Fire + stuff like Gene (God Hand), Ruby Heart (General VS. Series/Darkstalker in concept only).

I do feel really confident about Gene, honestly. He was probably the most wanted Capcom character besides X that didn't make it into UMVC3. He was even in the final pool of characters for that game.

I think he might be on their radar, especially since they've at last caved in to all the X requests.

 

[BronsonLee]

Gene and Asura would be great because you just know those supers are going to be stupid as shit in the best way

 

[PadWarrior]

I think all three matter to some degree, but MvC in particular has a pretty good rep for being accessible to begin with, compared to say VF

But yeah they should use MKX as the model for success, not SFV tbh



I could stumble into my apartment on every drug known to man and still probably be more dangerous in SFV than other games

I demand this to be streamed.

 

[Anth0ny]

I think all three matter to some degree, but MvC in particular has a pretty good rep for being accessible to begin with, compared to say VF

But yeah they should use MKX as the model for success, not SFV tbh

I still wonder how MKX is so successful. Is it the story mode? Is it the non-anime aesthetic that people gravitate towards? Is it the fatalities? All of the above?

Marvel can't really do non-anime or fatalities. So you're left with story mode and the fact that you are working with pretty much the most popular entertainment brand in the world right now.

 

[Dahbomb]

Simplifying fighting games to encourage casual players to stick with them has never fucking worked. Not once. It's infuriating that developers still try to trot out that line for it, too. I can't tell if they're dumb enough to believe it or just trying to work the PR angle.

Ultras were supposed to be a comeback mechanic to keep players in the game in SF4, but it's more likely that a pro will make better use of it, while a scrub will just whiff and waste it on wake-up.

Any dunce can do some damage with X-Factor, but you're more likely to be shredded by Wong's XF1 Wolverine who knows how to kill all of your characters before they can do anything or a competent XF3 Vergil who can clean up when things go south.

I like that SF5's input buffer is a lot more lenient than in prior entries of the series, but quite a lot of the faces seen at Capcom Cup 2016 are the same as in 2015.

Even fucking Smash Bros has only 2 attack buttons, but Melee also happens to have the most consistent tournament results of any fighting game ever. Because the people who place well just know how to play the game better than the rest of the competition. And there were even plenty of posts here on GAF complaining that Smash 4 was too complicated when that game was released.

You can dumb down Infinite as much as you like. It won't change a thing. The dedicated players will be the ones who get results, and the people who can't handle their losses or figure out how to learn from them will throw in the towel and move on with their lives as soon as they're tired of taking a beating online. Nothing you can do can keep the latter group around; that's a mindset problem that can't be solved through game development.

This right here.

People got their "easy casual" fighter in SFV. They didn't buy it because reasons. More people bought the difficult, hard to get into, high skill ceiling Marvel 3 than SFV. And they both had low content and Marvel 3 had terrible netcode on top of that.

MvC:I is going to be harder than SFV and the casuals will get stomped then go back to complaining about long combos that they have to memorize and broken Marvel characters/games. Then Capcom will release a 1v1 no Stones fighter for them and they will STILL get smashed and complain about something.

I am not saying to make the game impossible for most people. I think Marvel 3 has a lot of stuff that could be toned down like reverse DP motions for certain characters and other execution stuff plus clean up a lot of the mechanics like TACs, X factor and general hit spheres/HSD. But taking out big core mechanics for the sake of supposed accessibility is taking it to the point where you are removing the fun and intrigue of the games. It's like taking out EX moves, Supers and Ultra/V mechanics from SF5 to make it more accessible. As if SFV wasn't vanilla enough.

I feel like the worthwhile story mode, single player content, unlockables, and good roster will do more for the game than simplifying the combat for everyone. But idk.

I feel the same way too. But I guess it's in the past now.

 

[LincolnTunnel]

I feel like making it visually appealing would do the trick of bringing in new players, kinda like what mkx did.

ComboFiend now one of Them.

Hypothetical way for this game to be saved for me:
1) 2v2, so no assists. Sucks, but okay.
2) Giants are back.
3) MFing Rathalos is in the game.
4) Hyper armor dragon attacks.
5) Mow down scrubs all day until they quit the game.
6) Game redeemed.

That mindset just makes me so sad... there's a whole generation of gamers that are used to instant gratification and if your game makes you feel the least bit frustrated- that's considered bad design.

You don't see them removing keys from pianos or taking strings of guitars because "it's too hard".... god damn generation of powder puffs.... get off my damn lawn!

You guys know that quote is fake, right? It's from Sakurai talking about Smash.

 

[enzo_gt]

I think all three matter to some degree, but MvC in particular has a pretty good rep for being accessible to begin with, compared to say VF

But yeah they should use MKX as the model for success, not SFV tbh

I'd argue it's one of the least accessible games of all. One that doesn't explain half of it's mechanics (superjumps, DHCs), asks you to learn 3x the characters of every other game, effectively pick assists for each to complement the other team members, etc.

It's a real, real complicated game. At least in a 1v1 like VF you can focus on a single character in the context of the engine.

 

[Jawmuncher]

I really don't want this to be Megaman vs Marvel going by this threads most wants

 

[BronsonLee]

I demand this to be streamed.

Are you trying to get me SWATted?!

I still wonder how MKX is so successful. Is it the story mode? Is it the non-anime aesthetic that people gravitate towards? Is it the fatalities? All of the above?

Marvel can't really do non-anime or fatalities. So you're left with story mode and the fact that you are working with pretty much the most popular entertainment brand in the world right now.

I think the fatalities are a draw, but not as much as people would think. I think the story mode and the popularity of that franchise are what did it. MK9 brought everything back in a biiiiig way.

That being said, Marvel has massive juice now

 

[Mr. Smiley]

I still wonder how MKX is so successful. Is it the story mode? Is it the non-anime aesthetic that people gravitate towards? Is it the fatalities? All of the above?

Marvel can't really do non-anime or fatalities. So you're left with story mode and the fact that you are working with pretty much the most popular entertainment brand in the world right now.

Content and good graphics. It's a success model that isn't exclusive to MKX.

Fatalities, and the nostalgia that comes with it, do play a part though.

 

[Anth0ny]

This right here.

People got their "easy casual" fighter in SFV. They didn't buy it because reasons. More people bought the difficult, hard to get into, high skill ceiling Marvel 3 than SFV. And they both had low content and Marvel 3 had terrible netcode on top of that.

MvC:I is going to be harder than SFV and the casuals will get stomped then go back to complaining about long combos that they have to memorize and broken Marvel characters/games. Then Capcom will release a 1v1 no Stones fighter for them and they will STILL get smashed and complain about something.

I am not saying to make the game impossible for most people. I think Marvel 3 has a lot of stuff that could be toned down like reverse DP motions for certain characters and other execution stuff plus clean up a lot of the mechanics like TACs, X factor and general hit spheres/HSD. But taking out big core mechanics for the sake of supposed accessibility is taking it to the point where you are removing the fun and intrigue of the games. It's like taking out EX moves, Supers and Ultra/V mechanics from SF5 to make it more accessible. As if SFV wasn't vanilla enough.

Even looking at Capcom alone, SFIV did awesome. SFxT was dumbed down, sold like shit. SFV was dumbed down, sold like shit.

I don't understand what their strategy is here.

I think the fatalities are a draw, but not as much as people would think. I think the story mode and the popularity of that franchise are what did it. MK9 brought everything back in a biiiiig way.

That being said, Marvel has massive juice now

Content and good graphics. It's a success model that isn't exclusive to MKX.

Fatalities, and the nostalgia that comes with it, do play a part though.

Good graphics for sure help. You look at MKX compared to SFC or Marvel Infinite and it's like night and day (even though the art direction in MK is the drizzling shits)

I know those MK games are loaded with content, but it seems like the story mode is pushed the hardest in marketing/trailers/commercials and stuff.

 

[BronsonLee]

I'd argue it's one of the least accessible games of all. One that doesn't explain half of it's mechanics (superjumps, DHCs), asks you to learn 3x the characters of every other game, effectively pick assists for each to complement the other team members, etc.

It's a real, real complicated game. At least in a 1v1 like VF you can focus on a single character in the context of the engine.

I think the devs are on your side of the fence, which is why they simplified it a bit

Like someone said in here though, it is reaaaaaal easy to do some damage in Marvel 3. Marvel 1 was balls easy. 2 was harder than it should've been IMO, that game sucks

Even looking at Capcom alone, SFIV did awesome. SFxT was dumbed down, sold like shit. SFV was dumbed down, sold like shit.

I don't understand what their strategy is here.

I could argue that neither game sold like shit because of how they played.

 

[Scrub Mcgrubb]

You know the thing that sucked the most during that PSX interview was how quickly they straight up said the game is not a Marvel vs Capcom 4.

It's like having your cake and eating it too. They want the legacy of the vs series... but at the same time strip away all the evolution that series has gone through over decades of iterations because the average kid is too dumb or lazy to learn it.

 

[Negaduck]

Marvel 3 was easy as Fuck (skill floor) . Removing keys from a piano was one of the best analogies I've seen.

You know the thing that sucked the most during that PSX interview was how quickly they straight up said the game is not a Marvel vs Capcom 4.

It's like having your cake and eating it too. They want the legacy of the vs series... but at the same time strip away all the evolution that series has gone through over decades of iterations because the average kid is too dumb or lazy to learn it.

I'm okay with it not being a direct numbered sequence (let's them fix the button layout) and make a lot of fixes or changes.

It's still going to be a versus game. Now will it earn that "mahvel" hype? We'll see. Nothing tops Mahvel baby! Hype

https://youtu.be/sZZUMjoxfZA

 

[Azure J]

That being said, Marvel has massive juice now

This is easily going to be the most fascinating part of this particular game's lead to launch. Ultimate barely missed being a part of the phenom whirlwind that was Marvel post-Avengers. I can only imagine the things going for this game from both an ongoing support and market visibility angle when it launches next year.

 

[sephi22]

I still wonder how MKX is so successful. Is it the story mode? Is it the non-anime aesthetic that people gravitate towards? Is it the fatalities? All of the above?

Marvel can't really do non-anime or fatalities. So you're left with story mode and the fact that you are working with pretty much the most popular entertainment brand in the world right now.

Don't forget fatalities made it appeal to the most influential demographic out there - youtubers and twitch streamers

Fatality only video compilations on youtube have 20+ million views

 

[BronsonLee]

Marvel 3 was easy as Fuck (skill floor) . Removing keys from a piano was one of the best analogies I've seen.

Except Marvel isn't selling you a 2,000$ piano, they're selling you a 60$ game so they need to sell by volume. FGC people don't get that, which is fine.

This is easily going to be the most fascinating part of this particular game's lead to launch. Ultimate barely missed being a part of the phenom whirlwind that was Marvel post-Avengers. I can only imagine the things going for this game from both a support and visibility angle when it launches next year.

Imagine OG Marvel 3 coming out after Avengers, whew

This one's probably going to go the distance

 

[Already Torn]

Marvel 3 was easy as Fuck (skill floor) . Removing keys from a piano was one of the best analogies I've seen.

Mhmm. Online and finishing all the trials is a different story but those same people are gonna get bodied in Infinity online too.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Even looking at Capcom alone, SFIV did awesome. SFxT was dumbed down, sold like shit. SFV was dumbed down, sold like shit.

I don't understand what their strategy is here.

I don't think being "dumbed down" is what caused SFxT and SFV to sell bad.