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[sir_bumble_bee]

New Max video - Crazy Bullshit and new Mechanics

That clip he showed was fucking nuts, I genuinely did not understand what was going on until he explained it.

He mentioned other people sharing his belief that this game is actually pretty difficult to play, does anyone have a link to a detailed breakdown of why this may be so?

 

[kirblar]

That clip he showed was fucking nuts, I genuinely did not understand what was going on until he explained it.

He mentioned other people sharing his belief that this game is actually pretty difficult to play, does anyone have a link to a detailed breakdown of why this may be so?

It's because MvC:I is actually most similar to SFxT due to the hyper-flexible tag mechanic. It makes anything past a basic combo into super much more complicated due to the need to time things.

Combine that system w/ MvC's crazy spammy bullshit, and you have a game being aimed at casuals that is going to be harder for them to play at an intermediate level.

 

[bubumiao]

It looks like there's gonna be a lot of random stuff happening.

 

[sir_bumble_bee]

It's because MvC:I is actually most similar to SFxT due to the hyper-flexible tag mechanic. It makes anything past a basic combo into super much more complicated due to the need to time things.

Combine that system w/ MvC's crazy spammy bullshit, and you have a game being aimed at casuals that is going to be harder for them to play at an intermediate level.

Harder than, say, UMvC3?

 

[ZenOfThunder]

Picked up this variant today:

Has there been any discussion on the chances of Jane Foster Thor being a premium skin of some kind? I haven't really been following these variants other than buying them when they come into my shop.

 

[Skyridge]

Picked up this variant today:
Has there been any discussion on the chances of Jane Foster Thor being a premium skin of some kind? I haven't really been following these variants other than buying them when they come into my shop.

Yeah. It unfortunately won't work because she's not as big as Thor. You can't have an alt that changes hitboxes and stuff.

 

[Zero-ELEC]

Like I've said before, the game is obviously not made with accessibility in mind. Every time they've talked about it, it's really only been lip service.

Even not going as far as combos and tags, the button layout, for example, is immediately less accessible than 3 and TvC.

 

[Rhaknar]

Game is seemingly dumbed down

RAWR FUCK CAPCOM CATERING TO CASULS

Game is actually more fucked up and complex than previous games

RAWR FUCK CAPCOM NOT CATERING TO CASULS

 

[Orb]

As a casual(actually a person who loves fighting games, I just suck at them), the demo gameplay was some of the most fun I've had playing a fighting game, honestly, even though It was hard to comprehend anything that isn't how awful thor and arthur are.

I like it's speedy tagging more than the 3v3 of UMvC3, though I havent played that in years so I may have just been worse then lol.

All I need in this game for it to be great to me is Shuma, Ammy, and Trish. Please.(Also would say Nemesis but he's already confirmed)

 

[christiankid7]

I never thought about someone hypering and active-switching when a person counter-switched. That does have the potential to be absolutely crazy.

 

[Doctrine Dark]

Game is seemingly dumbed down

RAWR FUCK CAPCOM CATERING TO CASULS

Game is actually more fucked up and complex than previous games

RAWR FUCK CAPCOM NOT CATERING TO CASULS

I still see people saying the game is "dumbed down" and has retained nothing from the previous games. Some people hate this game so much that they can't even think (or see) straight.

 

[kirblar]

Harder than, say, UMvC3?

Yes, I think so.

 

[sir_bumble_bee]

Yes, I think so.

Like I've said before, the game is obviously not made with accessibility in mind. Every time they've talked about it, it's really only been lip service.

Even not going as far as combos and tags, the button layout, for example, is immediately less accessible than 3 and TvC.

So, from the sound of things, we have another Street Fighter IV scenario here? The game is marketed as "accessible" and "back to the basic" when in reality it's arguably just as if not more difficult to learn? SFIV's FADC bullshit that I could never quite learn past basic implementations.

 

[Neonep]

Just like Vergil.

You are correct sir.

 

[Neonep]

Max is definitely on the money with scaling the supers at the end of combos. They do no damage.

 

[Forward]

Max is definitely on the money with scaling the supers at the end of combos. They do no damage.

Capcom heard our cries for a game of epic scale.

And got spoony in translation.

 

[Anth0ny]

Max is definitely on the money with scaling the supers at the end of combos. They do no damage.

Right now, it doesn't seem to make much sense to waste meter on a super at the end of a combo with all of this scaling. Just knock down and go for a mixup, save your meter for combo breakers.

Game is seemingly dumbed down

RAWR FUCK CAPCOM CATERING TO CASULS

Game is actually more fucked up and complex than previous games

RAWR FUCK CAPCOM NOT CATERING TO CASULS

It's true I won't give Capcom that specific shit because casuals are going to get their shit WORKED on launch day. This game looks more complex than Marvel 3 in some ways.

However, the following are still acceptable:

fuck capcom for bad/mixed messaging

fuck capcom for going 2v2 instead of 3v3

fuck capcom for dropping assists

 

[sinkfla87]

"But MegaMan ain't gonna have none of that shit!"

LOL. Good stuff, Max. Why are you not on Capcom PR payroll yet? You have literally made me more excited for this game than Capcom ever has.

 

[Doctrine Dark]

We'd probably still be going back to Evo vids if Max and Tyrant weren't uploading stuff.

 

[sir_bumble_bee]

"But MegaMan ain't gonna have none of that shit!"

LOL. Good stuff, Max. Why are you not on Capcom PR payroll yet? You have literally made me more excited for this game than Capcom ever has.

Capcom PR for the last decade has been pretty shit.

Edit: I feel like all these accessibility concerns could be put to rest with the inclusion of a solid tutorial mode, but then again, this is Capcom we're talking about...

 

[DryEyeRelief]

Game is actually more fucked up and complex than previous games

RAWR FUCK CAPCOM NOT CATERING TO CASULS

I think the concern is that inaccessibility will be another reason for people to not play the game.

 

[Doctrine Dark]

I don't think accessibility or inaccessibility is an issue in this instance. It all comes down to offline content. A lot of people I know love Injustice 2, but once they play online, they feel like the game is too hard. Those people that are quick to drop the game wouldn't have stuck around no matter if the system was neutered to hell or not.

A creative system and a nice amount of content goes a long-way. Capcom just forgot that a well-rounded roster and beautiful graphics are also necessary.

 

[christiankid7]

Might not even be worth including with the tag system...but I wonder how things would be if assists were in the game. Does switching completely eliminate the assist feature or could both be included?

 

[Seyavesh]

Might not even be worth including with the tag system...but I wonder how things would be if assists were in the game. Does switching completely eliminate the assist feature or could both be included?

you could theoretically have both but basically you'd just be using assists 99% of the time in neutral since tag stuff is way harder to protect and requires commitment from the point char.
like having assists somewhat defeats the balance of the free tag system b/c you suddenly have all the gains without any of the downsides. tag for mixups, setups and combos while using assists in neutral with some quirky moments of using tag to try and fake some shit out

the thing that's actually gonna get casual players to quit has nothing to do with complexity or accessibility imo, it's just gonna be that the most obvious cheap shit is suffocating to casual players b/c the way it works naturally defeats what casual players want to do (do moves at the other guy and sometimes get hits) with ease. the main one is reality stone since it's so easily used in that context and readily available but i think the general competitive flow of the game will end up doing that as well (resetworld/instadeath world)
the flood of reality stone complaints are gonna be so, so real

the game is outright simplified in ways that are measurable but id say it's arguable that the ways that it's simplified hold no real meaning to casual players. down down/removal of dps and the removal of real movement (plinkdash, real wavedashing, zigzag dashing, back/forward dashes) are all done with the stated intent of simplification and evening of the playing field but i can't see any way it's tangibly affect someone who doesn't really give that much of a shit about that aspect

 

[Turbanator]

Capcom PR for the last decade has been pretty shit.

Edit: I feel like all these accessibility concerns could be put to rest with the inclusion of a solid tutorial mode, but then again, this is Capcom we're talking about...

The hype for SFV was incredible. The PR for that one was really good pre-launch IMO.


Also you're giving Capcom flack but they've managed to make better tutorials than both NRS and Bamco in SFxT and SFV.

I mean, it isn't hard to beat shit (or nothing in Tekken's case), but still.

 

[sir_bumble_bee]

Also you're giving Capcom flack but they've managed to make better tutorials than both NRS and Bamco in SFxT and SFV.

Can't speak for SFxT but SFV'S tutorial was average at best. If you want to find a great fighting game tutorial, look no further than Guilty Gear Xrd. Both SIGN and REV had tutorials that throughly explained basic mechanics, movement options, real match applications, mix ups, etc.

 

[sinkfla87]

The hype for SFV was incredible. The PR for that one was really good pre-launch IMO.


Also you're giving Capcom flack but they've managed to make better tutorials than both NRS and Bamco in SFxT and SFV.

I mean, it isn't hard to beat shit (or nothing in Tekken's case), but still.

LOL. I'm still relatively new to tekken and enjoying 7, but damn if that isn't the truth. YouTube is pretty much my source of info for even the most basic of shit.

 

[Neoxon]

The hype for SFV was incredible. The PR for that one was really good pre-launch IMO.


Also you're giving Capcom flack but they've managed to make better tutorials than both NRS and Bamco in SFxT and SFV.

I mean, it isn't hard to beat shit (or nothing in Tekken's case), but still.

A shame considering that TTT2 had a solid-ass tutorial.

 

[Turbanator]

Can't speak for SFxT but SFV'S tutorial was average at best. If you want to find a great fighting game tutorial, look no further than Guilty Gear Xrd. Both SIGN and REV had tutorials that throughly explained basic mechanics, movement options, real match applications, mix ups, etc.

Yeah, SFV's is okay at best. The statement is more a shot at how poor tutorials tend to be in the genre that needs them the most.

VF4E, Xrd, and Skullgirls have the best tutorials in the genre easily. Probably in that order, too.

 

[DR2K]

So who is this game for?

 

[Skyridge]

So who is this game for?

People who can appreciate the gameplay, because that's pretty much all it has going for it.

Good thing the gameplay actually looks really good.

 

[JayEH]

So who is this game for?

Disney XD viewers.

 

[Zero-ELEC]

So who is this game for?

The Lone Dragon

And Skilletor.

 

[Skilletor]

Probably be my favorite versus game since XvS. Can't wait.

 

[Doctrine Dark]

Really looking forward to seeing how they'll design Sigma. He's based on MMX1, but I'm curious if he'll be handled like X and Zero with various moves from other games. All I really recall from Sigma is wall-diving, saber slashing, a projectile, and a teleport from X1. Since he wields different weapons in the other games, I'm not sure how they'll pull stuff from those versions.

 

[sixteen-bit]

So who is this game for?

Function enthusiasts

 

[patchday]

Capcom PR for the last decade has been pretty shit.

Edit: I feel like all these accessibility concerns could be put to rest with the inclusion of a solid tutorial mode, but then again, this is Capcom we're talking about...

I know everyone wants to harp on fighting game tuts but I have a theory. My theory is the avg Casual gamer bypasses the tutorials and hops right online, gets bodied, and then trades in the game. Others will simply seek an easy mode to help them beat single player mode & then return the rental or whatever. Same with Steam gamer (cause they can refund under 2 hrs)

Dahbomb had a good idea (I think it was him) whereas he says the single player mode needs to teach the mechanics so gamer can learn on the fly.

I think usually only your hardcore player will do the tutorials rather then the audience it is intended for. Because I know I want to do the tuts to make sure I am not missing something

[edit] My conclusion comes from observing many casual IJ2/MKX player complain about Deadshot/FullAuto-Jackie rather than ask for counter strategies or just plain switch to the character that gives them troubles to learn to master the matchup. But they won't. It's much easier to run to the forums, whine, and then return/trade the game

 

[Pompadour]

The hype for SFV was incredible. The PR for that one was really good pre-launch IMO.

Was it really, though? I remember thinking that SFV wasn't going to do well because we had seen so little of the game outside of match footage (which turned out to be most of the game) and they weren't releasing crazy CG trailers like they did with SFxT which bombed.

Of course, the impression people have of MvCI is "disaster" whereas SFV ranged from "great" to "meh" depending on what kind of player you were. Not being a garbage fire is automatically a step up.

 

[lucebuce12]

Was it really, though? I remember thinking that SFV wasn't going to do well because we had seen so little of the game outside of match footage (which turned out to be most of the game) and they weren't releasing crazy CG trailers like they did with SFxT which bombed.

Of course, the impression people have of MvCI is "disaster" whereas SFV ranged from "great" to "meh" depending on what kind of player you were. Not being a garbage fire is automatically a step up.

People were excited cause of the betas too. Plus the game just looked really good.

Oh how naive we were.

 

[patchday]

LOL. I'm still relatively new to tekken and enjoying 7, but damn if that isn't the truth. YouTube is pretty much my source of info for even the most basic of shit.

Exactly this. I think your dedicated players will watch streams, pro tourneys, etc even in the absence of the tuts.

All that said, I still want tuts and training missions (ala Guilty Gear Xrd). Extensive single player content also helps since they can play offline for many hrs to build up their confidence and learn some mechanics

All that said, I think the single player needs to focus more on training since your Casuals will at least hit that almost guaranteed. Fighters need to train them there rather then just full go Hollywood blockbuster style like SFV campaign and MvCI story looks the same from the demo

 

[Pompadour]

People were excited cause of the betas too. Plus the game just looked really good.

Oh how naive we were.

The betas were very good. That's definitely true.

I think SFV looks great but people then, and some now, thought the game looked too cartoony or too much like SFIV. Plus, Ken's face.

 

[patchday]

People were excited cause of the betas too. Plus the game just looked really good.

Oh how naive we were.

Yeah there was so many red flags now thinking back. This time I know better. got MvCI on the cheap in case it all goes downhill.

SFV still looks beautiful to my eyes. I just dont have the time to mess with it.

 

[sinkfla87]

Exactly this. I think your dedicated players will watch streams, pro tourneys, etc even in the absence of the tuts.

All that said, I still want tuts and training missions (ala Guilty Gear Xrd). Extensive single player content also helps since they can play offline for many hrs to build up their confidence and learn some mechanics

All that said, I think the single player needs to focus more on training since your Casuals will at least hit that almost guaranteed. Fighters need to train them there rather then just full go Hollywood blockbuster style like SFV campaign and MvCI story looks the same from the demo

We need to get on and play again! It's been a bit since I've had much time to play . Played Cracked pebbles for a short bit before work the other night but couldn't play long. Fucking adult life and responsibilities taking away my fun...

Back to what you were saying, you're definitely right about casuals going online, getting bodied and trading it in. This is true as I have actually seen it firsthand haha. I can't tell you how many people I've seen buy a fighting game, get mad they lose or get caught by game mechanics/combos online, refuse to adapt or even attempt to learn, and then either never touch it again or like you said trade it in. I've had close friends actually do this.

The thing I think that would appeal to casuals other than of course story mode (which looks meh at the moment), is the roster and that's where the problem is. I've had friends who aren't in the loop ask me:

"Hey, is Wolverine in there? He's my shit."
"Uhhh no. There's no X-Men because of that whole movie deal where they wanna-"
"What about Juggernaut?"
"Uh, he's X-Men as well so no-"
"What about Dr. Doom? He's not X-Men."
"That's true but no, because he's not in the MCU so-"
"Who is in there?"
".....Firebrand and Jedah"

 

[Rhaknar]

keep waiting to see if cdkeys will have the deluxe version but at the same time im afraid ill miss out on the current price for the normal edition :/

what to do what to do.

 

[Turbanator]

keep waiting to see if cdkeys will have the deluxe version but at the same time im afraid ill miss out on the current price for the normal edition :/

what to do what to do.

Buy it now and cancel if the DE comes up for less than $59.

 

[patchday]

We need to get on and play again! It's been a bit since I've had much time to play . Played Cracked pebbles for a short bit before work the other night but couldn't play long. Fucking adult life and responsibilities taking away my fun...

Back to what you were saying, you're definitely right about casuals going online, getting bodied and trading it in. This is true as I have actually seen it firsthand haha. I can't tell you how many people I've seen buy a fighting game, get mad they lose or get caught by game mechanics/combos online, refuse to adapt or even attempt to learn, and then either never touch it again or like you said trade it in. I've had close friends actually do this.

The thing I think that would appeal to casuals other than of course story mode (which looks meh at the moment), is the roster and that's where the problem is. I've had friends who aren't in the loop ask me:

"Hey, is Wolverine in there? He's my shit."
"Uhhh no. There's no X-Men because of that whole movie deal where they wanna-"
"What about Juggernaut?"
"Uh, he's X-Men as well so no-"
"What about Dr. Doom? He's not X-Men."
"That's true but no, because he's not in the MCU so-"
"Who is in there?"
".....Firebrand and Jedah"

For real I'll try texting you on PSN. Btw which platform you buying this game on? Wasn't planning to get ps4 ver til I see a price drop for Deluxe. for now going PC so I can play at work, etc

Yeah, you're right the roster is a deathblow ;(

keep waiting to see if cdkeys will have the deluxe version but at the same time im afraid ill miss out on the current price for the normal edition :/

what to do what to do.

does cdkeys run sales on deluxe versions too? man I've already seen standard ver dip to like $28 does it get even better than that?

Buy it now and cancel if the DE comes up for less than $59.

oh thats even better

 

[Sigmaah]

Imo they deff made this game harder for ppl just by getting rid of LMHS.

I hope there's a control scheme that'll let me play like LMHS. I highly doubt it tho.

 

[IntelliHeath]

Imo they deff made this game harder for ppl just by getting rid of LMHS.

I hope there's a control scheme that'll let me play like LMHS. I highly doubt it tho.

There's no hope because it doesn't work that way.

 

[Jawmuncher]

I don't know about you all but I have people asking about Firebrand daily. He's easily the most popular character on the roster. Even kids are wearing Firebrand T-Shirts and making the squawks he does in anticipation for his return.

 

[Turbanator]

The button layout is great and you guys will like it.

If i had my say, this shit would be six buttons. XvSF, baby!