NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
NYC shotgun Max is the best Max.
That is almost pornographic, it's so sexy.
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Max Payne 3 Design and Tech video on Bullet Time - OUT NAO
- Thread starter RoboPlato
- Start date
That is almost pornographic, it's so sexy.
FUCK. Every single video they put out gets me more and more excited. I feel like this could be one of those games you can play over and over because the mechanics are so solid. That's assuming they are as awesome as they look. Only about a month left to go.
PC build was a PAX and played great.
I felt that way going into it and before I understood the sequences, but I found it fairly neat because of how detailed and unique they were. At least, from playing it four times it didn't bother me.
This is my main worry. It's absolutely horrendous. Hopefully it is just an aiming/movement issue with how Euphoria compensates animations or something.
It didn't feel this way to me. That's how I play my games, hanging back and headshotting people. The game did not want me to do that. I was put in situations where I was made to move (no regenerating health).
theAntagonist
Member
I'm disappointed that my shooter fan friends are not really super interested in this for whatever reason, cause this game just looks so good. Ah well... I think I'm going to have to do some in-person convincing for this one.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
They aren't real shooter fans then.
theAntagonist
Member
I know, right? How many of you guys are also thinking of picking up Ghost Recon: Future Soldier, not ten days after the console release of MP3? I thought the most recent multiplayer trailer actually looked pretty good to me.
NullPointer
Member
Has Rockstar ever done a pure shooter before? Maybe memories of unwieldy combat in GTAs is putting the brakes on em.
For my part the idea of Rockstar dedicating themselves to their shooting mechanics/animations/storytelling in a more enclosed environment sounds awesome, both for this game and their future titles down the line.
I will, but for radically different reasons.
Dreams-Visions
Member
the shit.
WOW, that's like, the best gunplay I've seen this generation. Looks amazing in every way. I would have laughed if you told me Rockstar could make a shooter this good (always felt gunplay in GTA4 was weak, and improved upon but not much better in RDR) I am eating some glorious crow...
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
MAX HYPE.
Net_Wrecker
Member
I don't agree. Gunplay in terms of how good the guns feel and sound, and how enemies react to bullets was great in RDR. The character CONTROLS weren't where they should be in comparison to an Uncharted, but it felt good shooting stuff in RDR.
On the flip side, Uncharted 3 is an example of terrible gunplay. Enemies that don't flinch, guns that feel (and sometimes sound) weak, bullet sponge enemies, etc. etc.
Dick Justice
Banned
Strange how, last gen, Rockstar's games generally had crap graphics and animations, with basic shooting mechanics. Now, they're pretty much leading the pack in most of those categories. Red Dead's shooting was incredibly satisfying, thanks to that subtle camera shake and awesome dynamic enemy reactions. I liked how, if you shot one guy, he might stumble around and accidentally shoot his friend or even himself. Shame about the tank-like controls, though. They really sacrificed fluid movement for a weightier feeling.
Yeah, when I mention gunplay, I mean all of the above (controls, feel, etc). When in comparison to RDR, the gunplay in MP3 looks a league ahead of almost anything else out right now. I just didn't imagine such a leap forward from their previous games. This gives me extremely high hopes for GTAV.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Imagine if John Marston controlled like Max. What a miracle that would have been. The whole feeling like a heavy-ass tank was so detrimental to such a great game.
Net_Wrecker
Member
I feel the improvement is directly related to the character model now being controlled WITH the reticle constantly, instead of independently until you actually hard aim. It means that Max's (or your multiplayer character's) body is always in a "ready to shoot" position. I really hope they adopt and improve this system for GTAV and all of their games involving shooting going forward.
matrix-cat
Member
The only thing holding back my excitement for this game is my memory of GTA IV's shooting. I honestly think that game had the worst shooting control I've ever seen. Just the most terrible decisions, like they'd gone down the wrong road at every possible branch of development. The cover system was horrendous; you'd always get into situations where you couldn't shoot into a room or something because the doors would magically spring closed all the time, and the game just wouldn't let you shoot if you weren't right at the corner of a wall. If you took cover behind something low the reticle would move upwards as Niko stood up to shoot, so you'd have to adjust your aim every time. And it wasn't regular cover-based shooting where you pull the left trigger to stand up and aim and then the right trigger to shoot: you pulled the left trigger to lock on to someone, and then the right trigger to stand up, aim and then shoot. Niko would fire the gun like a second after you pulled the trigger. It was the most horrendously awful shit.
You had to switch weapons by cycling through them one by one in real time with the D-pad. I don't think they added a manual reload button until the DLC episodes. You couldn't move while aiming at anything but walking speed because you had to hold the A button to jog in that game and you can't hold the A button and move the right stick at the same time. It had that bizarre system of of holding the left trigger halfway to free-aim and all the way to lock-on. Man it was awful. Jesus, I'm having flashbacks to all those times I lost half my health in an instant because Niko would just casually stroll around through a firefight because I couldn't run and move the camera at the same time.
They fixed a lot of that in Red Dead Redemption, but hopefully they'll fix a lot more for Max Payne. Not having one shred of GTA IV leftovers in there would be nice.
You had to switch weapons by cycling through them one by one in real time with the D-pad. I don't think they added a manual reload button until the DLC episodes. You couldn't move while aiming at anything but walking speed because you had to hold the A button to jog in that game and you can't hold the A button and move the right stick at the same time. It had that bizarre system of of holding the left trigger halfway to free-aim and all the way to lock-on. Man it was awful. Jesus, I'm having flashbacks to all those times I lost half my health in an instant because Niko would just casually stroll around through a firefight because I couldn't run and move the camera at the same time.
They fixed a lot of that in Red Dead Redemption, but hopefully they'll fix a lot more for Max Payne. Not having one shred of GTA IV leftovers in there would be nice.
I still to this day enjoy GTA IV's combat. I don't know, maybe I'm crazy, but I never had much of a problem with it. And Red Dead's was even better. Cover system in IV was terrible, though. Lmao @ the doors magically closing. I remember that. It was just so sluggish getting in and out of it, or moving to a different cover spot. Certainly not ideal.
That being said, I'm positive that this needs to be snappier than GTA IV and Red Dead. With the type of game this is, and with everyone saying that the enemy count and level design makes for a pretty frenetic pace, this simply has to be better than GTA IV in that department. Fluidity and responsiveness to the max.
I have confidence right now. Random impressions can never be taken as gospel, but I haven't seen much of anything negative about any of the three versions from people who were at PAX. Just lots of enthusiasm on other sites, Twitter, etc. so hopefully R* nailed it.
That being said, I'm positive that this needs to be snappier than GTA IV and Red Dead. With the type of game this is, and with everyone saying that the enemy count and level design makes for a pretty frenetic pace, this simply has to be better than GTA IV in that department. Fluidity and responsiveness to the max.
I have confidence right now. Random impressions can never be taken as gospel, but I haven't seen much of anything negative about any of the three versions from people who were at PAX. Just lots of enthusiasm on other sites, Twitter, etc. so hopefully R* nailed it.
Magic Mushroom
Member
I don't really agree with this. What I like about the gunplay in the Uncharted games is that gunfughts are very dynamic. Environments are open. There's lots of verticality and space to flank opponents. You can play through those battles in tons of different ways and enemy AI is pretty good on higher difficulties.
Of course this looks to take animation and hit reactions to another level. It looks amazing.
I think I'd agree with that, but when it came to actually having to take dudes down...I really hated it. UC 2 not so much from what I can remember, but UC 3 was pretty bad.
Though apparently some of that was due to glitches that were fixed with patches? Not quite sure, haven't played it since launch.
Magic Mushroom
Member
It plays really well I think, but it feels less badass than this. Or at least I think so, as I haven't played this yet.
Can't wait though, it looks like the action game to beat this year.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
I don't agree either. Uncharted has great gunplay and animation. It just doesn't have realistic hit reaction/gore. Max Payne one-ups in terms of gunplay/animation/violence, that's for sure, but that doesn't make Uncharted's gunplay suck. Uncharted is a hybrid shooter/platformer while Max Payne is a pure out-and-out shooter.
Net_Wrecker
Member
The platforming and level structure has nothing to do with gunplay though, IMO. That's overall combat (which I also had huge problems with in Uncharted 3). Gunplay, to me, is simply what happens when you shoot a gun. How it "feels," how it looks, how it sounds, how enemies react. Except for sound, every other one of those took a step back in Uncharted 3. And Uncharted being a hybrid game is NO excuse considering Uncharted 2 felt WAY better. And that's without even getting into the numerous other areas where I felt Uncharted 3 took a step back in combat. Whatever though, I've felt this way about U3 since day 1. Some agree, some don't.
MAX PAYNE 3 SO HYPE
Looking forward to this.
Sadly, I didn't played the first two... Hope this summer Steam will make a deal with both at 5, because till some day agos the 2 wasn't on the IT store, so I didn't buy it at Christmas...
Anyway, I won't play the third without the first two. asd
Sadly, I didn't played the first two... Hope this summer Steam will make a deal with both at 5, because till some day agos the 2 wasn't on the IT store, so I didn't buy it at Christmas...
Anyway, I won't play the third without the first two. asd
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Did you play UC3 with the patch that adjusted the aiming to UC2 levels? I like the gunplay in UC3 now that I have teh alternate settings.
Net_Wrecker
Member
Yeah, and I went back to some of my least favorite chapters to test it but it didn't make much of a difference. Aiming diagonally was better, but all the rest of the issues remained. Shooting guys just isn't fun in that game IMO. Enemy hit response, spawn points, monster closets, bullet sponges, wonky stealth, enemy placement, etc. etc. were all lacking.
Meccanical
Member
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
With a couple of exceptions, I didn't mind too much. I really enjoyed the game. I had a lot of fun shooting the whacked out British dudes.
But I think I see where you're coming from.
Net_Wrecker
Member
I get that not everyone will agree with me, but it's so obvious in my mind when going between 2 and 3 which is better in terms of pure shooting mechanics.
But MP3 looks to beat out both of them anyway so whatever
I would be stupid doing all this and not use it in GTA5, imho.
I doubt they could pull all of this off in a open world game like GTAV.
The bullet time obviously won't be there, and some of the minute details with the guns would probably be lost, but I'm confident that we'll see some of the control and cover mechanic improvements in V. Also, the way enemies react and the bullet wounds could carry over. RDR was already pretty great/nasty in that respect.
Maybe it could be a little worse (and if they're doing a good port, on pc could be better than console for obvious reason) but RDR reactions to bullets were already very good as I remember.
Yeah, exactly what I was thinking.
No bullettime or ultra detailed weapon, but better cover and bullet reaction.
NullPointer
Member
All of it no, nor would they need to. But if they could carry along some of their control and animation refinements...
... sorry I just got lost in thought.
Is that drool on my shirt? Damn.
Simo
Member
Can I just say how good the music is? I honestly had never heard of HEALTH when Rockstar announced they were doing the score but ever since the first Design & Tech video I've loved the little pieces of the score we've heard including the cinematic Trailer #2.
That coupled with HEALTH doing the Max Payne theme and I'm really happy the special edition is coming the soundtrack, although I've got a bad feeling it'll be a digital release rather than an actual CD enclosed.
That coupled with HEALTH doing the Max Payne theme and I'm really happy the special edition is coming the soundtrack, although I've got a bad feeling it'll be a digital release rather than an actual CD enclosed.
googoomuck22
Member
HEALTH are the best man, one of the best live bands I've ever seen. I was really surprised when I saw they were doing the soundtrack for this game but I'm glad they stepped up and are hitting all the right notes.
Also, count me in for one of the guys that thought this was gonna be terrible when it was first announced and now is really psyched. It looks really great, I was young when I played the first Max Payne game but I'm a big fan of Noir films and books and also a great admirer of the majority of Rockstars output. All in all, this should be fantastic.
Yeah, it's awesome! All of what's been in the trailers has been really good.
Sadly only getting the standard edition myself, but I'm sure this will be the third straight R* game that I buy the soundtrack for. They usually put it up on Amazon and iTunes fairly quickly.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
theAntagonist
Member
I just noticed a tiny, but really pretty neat detail in the most recent video. I noticed that there's now a hit-marker, 'x' on the reticule, but I'm pretty sure that it only shows up after the bullet that connects kills/downs the person. If so, that's genius. It's a subtle way to visually let the player know that the enemy is dead/downed/disarmed.
I know that it doesn't always show up in the vid, so I'm assuming that they either captured footage at different times, or it's an option that you can toggle, and it was toggled of at points. Anyway, I just love the subtle stuff about this game. It's all about the details.
I know that it doesn't always show up in the vid, so I'm assuming that they either captured footage at different times, or it's an option that you can toggle, and it was toggled of at points. Anyway, I just love the subtle stuff about this game. It's all about the details.
Simo
Member
You got it!
Rockstar confirmed that's what it was in the comments about the video on the official site and yeah you can toggle it off and on.
I love it when they update the official site with something from the newswire because it generally means they change the background image which makes for great wallpapers!
anyone have that Cage gif where he's basking in the sunlight? I think it's from Con Air.
theAntagonist
Member
Huh, neat! I'd just noticed it from watching the video. Didn't realize that they had actually brought it up and that it's able to be toggled on and off. It's definitely a cool touch. Also, what's with the reticule pulsating at times? Did they explain that? I'm assuming it has to do with bullet time somehow.
With regard to the 3rd person movement/shooting/cover mechanics, I don't think anyone has really nailed it yet. Uncharted was at it's best during the U2 betas, and went progressively downhill from there.
GTAIV is complete abomination in this department, but Red Dead did improve upon this, unfortunately the movement controls brought it back down. I think some mixture of the Splinter Cell series (Chaos Theory modernized) would be ideal.
Please tell me this game has a crouch button? All shooters need this, Please!. I want to be able control the movement with crouching/analog, not tapping x.
GTAIV is complete abomination in this department, but Red Dead did improve upon this, unfortunately the movement controls brought it back down. I think some mixture of the Splinter Cell series (Chaos Theory modernized) would be ideal.
Please tell me this game has a crouch button? All shooters need this, Please!. I want to be able control the movement with crouching/analog, not tapping x.
I didn't actually. I went and tried out the PC version which is pretty gosh darn awesome with mouse and keyboard! I managed to take a picture of the PS3 controls for you though!
In case you can't see that first 4, L2 is shoulder aim, L1 is weapon wheel, R2 is fire/melee(when close), and R1 is shoot dodge.
Remember that this is a Max Payne game -- despite the inclusion of cover, it's not a cover-based shooter.