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[Ushojax]

I don't think some of you get it.

I don't take offense to what they said, it's the tone and the fact that corporations like MS get off on pissing in their consumer's faces.

Well if you don't like the way they behave you are free to boycott their products in response. A lighthearted jab at the stereotypical hardcore gamer isn't something worth getting het up over.

 

[Chrange]

Jesus Christ, dude. This reply was so stupid that I lost brain cells reading it. Did you really think we was talking literally or seriously?

lol - go back to the E3 thread about the Sony conference and see how many 'Man, Kevin Butler GETS IT.' posts there were. Some people really believe he's just a normal guy Sony has working for them.

 

[LCfiner]

I love being dissed by giant corporations.

 

[KibblesBits]

Seems like a lot of people in the industry are saying such hurtful things lately.

:lol :lol :lol

 

[Kafel]

sounds about right

 

[mrklaw]

Kajima and Segata nailed it, but there is one thing I still don't understand.

Why would any of the 'style set' buy into 360 just because they now have a camera thingy? Surely the reason it did so well with the hardcore sweaty set is how they positioned it. Surely that has some kind of image associated with it? I can't believe they seriously think they'll get a chunk of the wii money as their Xbox brand is just *too* hardcore, isn't it?

You can't say 'gaming isn't just for sweaty metallica nerds' when almost your entire first party output says otherwise.

 

[Kaako]

I said wow.

 

[AniHawk]

Seriously what is wrong with MS lately? :lol

They call it Inception.

 

[gofreak]

And those are?

Well, thinking of that Major Nelson post-E3 'conversation' with that other MS guy where they basically reassured themselves that the hardcore would lap up Kinect like everything else MS has presented to them, even when there were complaints.

I just get the impression from a lot of things MS has said and done in the last couple of years that Xbox's orientation around the hardcore gamer has totally changed, but not in a moderate way, in a way that suggests said core is barely in the thinking of the current management. They're investing very little in that segment - they've actively burned and offloaded a tonne of their development interest in 'core' games - while ratcheting up how much they can squeeze out of that demographic (the Live price hike, the higher cost of Kinect for existing owners...).

 

[beast786]

So who will defend Microsoft on this?

Probably not the same people who defended the Live price increase.

 

[bedlamite]

ITT we RAAAAAAAAGE

 

[flyinpiranha]

Heh, but it's true! Who gives a shit if the guy made a joke. Didn't Butler say something along the same lines in his speech in E3? "Gaming is having a ridiculously large TV in a tiny one room apartment" ...

Where were the pitchforks?

 

[Interfectum]

Well if you don't like the way they behave you are free to boycott their products in response. A lighthearted jab at the stereotypical hardcore gamer isn't something worth getting het up over.

Well it's good MS has you on their defense squad.

I'll turn it around and say me commenting on MS saying something stupid isn't something that you should be getting heated up over.

 

[Princess Skittles]

Eh, he's basically right.

I decided to stop by a Dragon Quest canvass thing and.. well, it was so gross.

Next time I'm grabbing a six pack of razors to help those poor boys out.

 

[dankir]

I'm 28, very fit and hardcore gamer and a hip hop head as well!

Fuck you M$oft!

 

[TheOddOne]

Well, thinking of that Major Nelson post-E3 'conversation' with that other MS guy where they basically reassured themselves that the hardcore would lap up Kinect like everything else MS has presented to them, even when there were complaints.

I just get the impression from a lot of things MS has said and done in the last couple of years that Xbox's orientation around the hardcore gamer has totally changed, but not in a moderate way, in a way that suggests said core is barely in the thinking of the current management. They're investing very little in that segment - they've actively burned and offloaded a tonne of their development interest in 'core' games - while ratcheting up how much they can squeeze out of that demographic (the Live price hike, the higher cost of Kinect for existing owners...).

Thats a impression, that a fact. Sorry, but that your opinion.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

Kajima and Segata nailed it, but there is one thing I still don't understand.

Why would any of the 'style set' buy into 360 just because they now have a camera thingy? Surely the reason it did so well with the hardcore sweaty set is how they positioned it. Surely that has some kind of image associated with it? I can't believe they seriously think they'll get a chunk of the wii money as their Xbox brand is just *too* hardcore, isn't it?

You can't say 'gaming isn't just for sweaty metallica nerds' when almost your entire first party output says otherwise.

MS attempting to pull an Apple here, trying to sell a product to the cool demographics based on it's "revolutionary" properties, which were first seen... 10 years ago. Unfortunately for them, they are not Apple and will fail at this.

 

[Interfectum]

Thats a impression, that a fact. Sorry, but that your opinion.

Thought you were 'outta here'? :lol

 

[Camwi]

Well, I'll be 28 in November, love old Metallica (and Death Magnetic), and my hands can get pretty sweaty during intense gaming sessions.

So I don't know how to feel about that comment.

 

[fortified_concept]

lol - go back to the E3 thread about the Sony conference and see how many 'Man, Kevin Butler GETS IT.' posts there were. Some people really believe he's just a normal guy Sony has working for them.

You're dense. I bet you think that people assume he's the "VP of Awesome Montage" too, amirite?

Of course everyone knows that Kevin Butler is a character. Even if someone thinks his name is actually Kevin Butler it's insignificant since everyone knows it's a persona advertising Sony products. And when people are saying that "KB gets it", they're half joking-half talking seriously because they agree but not in a serious manner with the context of the semi-ridiculous speech. I can't believe someone would actually take all that seriously. Jesus Christ...

 

[TheOddOne]

Thought you were 'outta here'? :lol

Hey, its gofreak. GOFREAK.

 

[mrklaw]

MS attempting to pull an Apple here, attempting to sell a product to the cool demographics based on it's "revolutionary" properties, which were first seen... 10 years ago. Unfortunately for them, they are not Apple and will fail at this.

The difference is Apple were always targetting that demographic. They just bundle up stuff we know has been knocking around for ages and putting their spin on it. Its beautiful to watch in a morbid fascination type of way.

I know sony are trying something similar with Move, but it just feels to me like its handled more cleverly, plus their core PS3 marketing hasn't been so strongly 'hardcorrrrrrre!!!!11' as MS's has been so far.

 

[gofreak]

Thats a impression, that a fact. Sorry, but that your opinion.

Based on the facts of what MS has been saying and doing. Which I outlined in brief. And its an opinion I think is shared by others...you asked why people were reacting badly to this, maybe because they also see it in a broader context.

 

[Blimblim]

I mean, there has to be some confidence at MS that their hardcore audience isn't going to abandon them no matter what they do, what with testing that by the whole shitbrick hardware thing and all.

It will be interesting to see how this pans out in 1 or 2 years. Unless MS has some big exclusives coming I simply can't see how the hardcore gamers are not going to a greener (or should I say bluer?) PS3 land.
They lost Bungie, Bizarre, Rare is now nothing but a casual studio, Lionhead may or may not be doing gamer stuff, Gears of War is supposed (iirc) to be done with the 3rd one, and Forza while being a good racing series is hardly a system seller. The Halo franchise is now in the hands of a new team who has everything to prove, even though they have big names in their ranks.
Seriously though, what the hell are they going to release after Gears 3 next year? Forza 4 is the only game from an existing IP that MS could have in store for Q3/4 2011, no Halo, no Gears, no Fable, no PGR. Unless they have a new huge IP in store (and with their current management it's highly doubtful they'd go and launch a new IP this late in this generation), MS has basically no big releases after Gears 3.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

Microsoft themselves is clearly not calling all hardcore gamers "sweaty 30-somethings in Metallica t-shirts." They're speaking to the casual audience who themselves have the impression that that's what hardcore gamers are. If I asked my Grandma/Mom/random 50-year-old on the street who she thinks a 'hardcore gamer' is, she'd have a similar response. Or maybe she'd say "Laurie down in room 16. She can play those slot machines all night long, deary!"

 

[Haunted]

it's an outrage

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

I'm so mad that I'm only gonna buy gears and reach. Then. I'm done, as soon as my live subscription runs outand I get tired of black ops. Damn You Microsoft!

 

[TheOddOne]

Based on the facts of what MS has been saying and doing. Which I outlined in brief. And its an opinion I think is shared by others...you asked why people were reacting badly to this, maybe because they also see it in a broader context.

So this comment is the point that everybody just lost it, because of a joke? This seems like connecting dots and then coming up with a opinion and then taking it as fact.

 

[Chrange]

What does 'hardcore gamer' even mean these days? Casual gamer used to be the guys who bought Madden and a shooter every year and that was it, but now the casual gamer tag has been moved over to the 'mom and friends' crowd the Wii brought to the table. Is the old 'gamer' tag just expanded to include the formerly casual crowd?

 

[Monty Mole]

"Gaming's not just for sweaty thirty year olds in Metallica t-shirts"

This statement is correct. What's the problem?

If Microsoft had said "Hardcore gamers are all sweaty thirty year olds in Metallica t-shirts" then I'd understand the backlash.

I have to be honest though, I went to the Eurogamer Expo last year and everyone there was indeed a sweaty fat thirty year old in a hard rock t shirt. Except me. I'm not fat or sweaty and I hate hard rock. And black doesn't suit me anyway.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

I guess that having to play day care manager to the young savages on Xbox Live is finally starting to get to them. (Hope that everyone notices the Ultravox reference that I slipped in there to distance myself from Metallica.)

 

[flyinpiranha]

It will be interesting to see how this pans out in 1 or 2 years. Unless MS has some big exclusives coming I simply can't see how the hardcore gamers are not going to a greener (or should I say bluer?) PS3 land.
They lost Bungie, Bizarre, Rare is now nothing but a casual studio, Lionhead may or may not be doing gamer stuff, Gears of War is supposed (iirc) to be done with the 3rd one, and Forza while being a good racing series is hardly a system seller. The Halo franchise is now in the hands of a new team who has everything to prove, even though they have big names in their ranks.
Seriously though, what the hell are they going to release after Gears 3 next year? Forza 4 is the only game from an existing IP that MS could have in store for Q3/4 2011, no Halo, no Gears, no Fable, no PGR. Unless they have a new huge IP in store (and with their current management it's highly doubtful they'd go and launch a new IP this late in this generation), MS has basically no big releases after Gears 3.

LIIIIST WARS HAVE BEGUN!!

Based on the facts of what MS has been saying and doing. Which I outlined in brief. And its an opinion I think is shared by GAF...you asked why GAF were reacting badly to this, maybe because GAF also see it in a broader context.

Fixed. Nobody gives a shit but 30 year old's wearing Metalica t-shirts who follow gaming and their tweets on an hourly basis day in and day out.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Eh it's all the games that MS doesn't talk about. Everything from XBLA to the indies to the obscurities and niche titles are the games that keep me on the system. All MS seems to be good for lately is bad news anyway.

Though it will be a very impressive feat if MS manages to screw up all of the gains they've made in the entirety of a single console generation. It'll probably take more than some Kinect-bungling and announcements about how "we only like hardcore gamers for their money and loyalty" to pull that off however.

 

[Interfectum]

"Gaming's not just for sweaty thirty year olds in Metallica t-shirts"

This statement is correct.

"Gaming's not just for our loyal set of hardcore gamers that fund our entire Xbox division."

That statement is also correct.

 

[thcsquad]

lol - go back to the E3 thread about the Sony conference and see how many 'Man, Kevin Butler GETS IT.' posts there were. Some people really believe he's just a normal guy Sony has working for them.

What are you talking about? Do you really think people don't recognize the actor from Geico commercials? When people say stuff like 'Kevin Butler GETS IT', they're talking about the person/people responsible for the Kevin Butler ad campaign. Its generally accepted that Jerry Lambert's delivery matches it perfectly and makes it that much more memorable, but the message is from the writers.

edit: Also, on topic, I don't see how this is in any way surprising for Microsoft. Marketing is their forte, and that means they have to go all-in with Kinect marketing and their target demographic. This is a perfect way to do that.

 

[Sohter.Nura]

Jeez, why do people have to be so butt hurt over stupid shit like that? People ar stupid, executives are stupid, and they're desperate to try to sell a product. Truth is, people who consider themselves as "hardcore gamers" do wear sweaty metallica t-shirts =p I just play games, man.

 

[StealthGoblin]

I guess that having to play day care manager to the young savages on Xbox Live is finally starting to get to them. (Hope that everyone notices the Ultravox reference that I slipped in there to distance myself from Metallica.)

THIS MEANS NOTHING TO MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.....

 

[dallow_bg]

I alway laugh at the people who believe that other people think Kevin Butler is a real exec.

 

[TouchMyBox]

And the market's response to microsoft biting the hand that feeds it will be people happily paying $60 a year for LIVE and defending price-hikes on internet message boards.

 

[CosmicGroinPull]

Microsoft themselves is clearly not calling all hardcore gamers "sweaty 30-somethings in Metallica t-shirts." They're speaking to the casual audience who themselves have the impression that that's what hardcore gamers are. If I asked my Grandma/Mom/random 50-year-old on the street who she thinks a 'hardcore gamer' is, she'd have a similar response. Or maybe she'd say "Laurie down in room 16. She can play those slot machines all night long, deary!"

^And here's Microsoft's 'retraction'.

 

[Arpharmd B]

The only people who are fat, sweaty 30 something geeks in metallica shirts are the crowd that plays Ultimate MK3 competitively.

 

[ghst]

But what we do take serious exception to is the way Microsoft is promoting the Kinect, and what it says about their attitude to a market that, frankly, has delivered them profit piled on profit and a massive amount of console market share.

if this were true, they wouldn't have sunk what's left of their investor good will into chasing the fading image of motion controls in the first place.

 

[Interfectum]

Jeez, why do people have to be so butt hurt over stupid shit like that? People ar stupid, executives are stupid, and they're desperate to try to sell a product. Truth is, people who consider themselves as "hardcore gamers" do wear sweaty metallica t-shirts =p I just play games, man.

What do you get so butthurt over threads like these?

 

[TheRagnCajun]

Futureshop did something similair in an ad campaign. They were making fun of MMO gamers in a gaming-centric ad. I didn't understand it at all.

I'm all for being funny, and calling hardcore gamers 'sweaty thirty-somethings in Metallica T's' can be funny in the right context, but this isn't it.

 

[GarthVaderUK]

Microsoft themselves is clearly not calling all hardcore gamers "sweaty 30-somethings in Metallica t-shirts." They're speaking to the casual audience who themselves have the impression that that's what hardcore gamers are.

Exactly.

 

[SmokyDave]

I'm 30. I have perspired here & there. I do not have a Metallica T-Shirt. Did I just cease to be a 'hardcore' gamer?

 

[AniHawk]

It will be interesting to see how this pans out in 1 or 2 years. Unless MS has some big exclusives coming I simply can't see how the hardcore gamers are not going to a greener (or should I say bluer?) PS3 land.
They lost Bungie, Bizarre, Rare is now nothing but a casual studio, Lionhead may or may not be doing gamer stuff, Gears of War is supposed (iirc) to be done with the 3rd one, and Forza while being a good racing series is hardly a system seller. The Halo franchise is now in the hands of a new team who has everything to prove, even though they have big names in their ranks.
Seriously though, what the hell are they going to release after Gears 3 next year? Forza 4 is the only game from an existing IP that MS could have in store for Q3/4 2011, no Halo, no Gears, no Fable, no PGR. Unless they have a new huge IP in store (and with their current management it's highly doubtful they'd go and launch a new IP this late in this generation), MS has basically no big releases after Gears 3.

I was kinda surprised to see this after E3. Microsoft's plan from the start has been to beat Sony to having the set-top box in the living room. They got a good foot in the door with the Xbox, and got a nice install base with the 360, but the people they're really trying to reach are the Wii-buying audience. The whole point about having one media device that does everything was so it wouldn't just be a video game system, and the larger the audience they can reach, the better. I guess I shouldn't have been surprised. They've been all over the place with marketing since the beginning of this gen (velocity girl, etc) to try and get everyone they could. It just seemed to dry up all at once.

 

[Monty Mole]

People in this thread seem touchy.

I can only assume you're all wearing Metallica t-shirts and stink of piss.

It will be interesting to see how this pans out in 1 or 2 years. Unless MS has some big exclusives coming I simply can't see how the hardcore gamers are not going to a greener (or should I say bluer?) PS3 land.
They lost Bungie, Bizarre, Rare is now nothing but a casual studio, Lionhead may or may not be doing gamer stuff, Gears of War is supposed (iirc) to be done with the 3rd one, and Forza while being a good racing series is hardly a system seller. The Halo franchise is now in the hands of a new team who has everything to prove, even though they have big names in their ranks.
Seriously though, what the hell are they going to release after Gears 3 next year? Forza 4 is the only game from an existing IP that MS could have in store for Q3/4 2011, no Halo, no Gears, no Fable, no PGR. Unless they have a new huge IP in store (and with their current management it's highly doubtful they'd go and launch a new IP this late in this generation), MS has basically no big releases after Gears 3.

Indeed.

Strangely, when it comes to core exclusives, they seem to get it all right with XBLA but not retail releases.

Kingdoms from Crytek is their only other 1st party published IP that's announced beyond Gears. And that's obviously a big unknown, apart from the likely impressive graphics. But that's... it. At least it's a new IP.

 

[Hixx]

But I'm 20 and wear non-sweaty Stone Roses t-shirts.

Am I not hardcore?

 

[flyinpiranha]

What are you talking about? Do you really think people don't recognize the actor from Geico commercials? When people say stuff like 'Kevin Butler GETS IT', they're talking about the person/people responsible for the Kevin Butler ad campaign. Its generally accepted that Jerry Lambert's delivery matches it perfectly and makes it that much more memorable, but the message is from the writers.

You mean the guy who said gaming is "having a huge TV and living in a tiny one room apartment"?

Come on ... Jesus, I understand the common mentality here is to hate on MS but at least be consistent on what we hate and not just blindly ignore one and demonize the other.