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[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Looking at the cast that's not true. There's a black actor playing Moses' general for instance. The actors in this movie come from all over the place. There are British, American, Persian, Spanish, Indian, Turkish and Arab actors in the movie. It's clear that Egypt is portrayed as a multi cultural country. It's economics that makes it necessary to cast famous (white) actors in these roles. People want to see a biblical movie starring Christian Bale and Sigourney Weaver, not Ayoub El Hilali and Golshifteh Farahani.

Drivel from the ass, I see.

You don't seem to get it; that guy playing Moses's general is playing a no-name support character all the same. You are listing American like an ethnicity when it's not, which sort of throws away your point in listing them and the others as being the movie...so what? It's about the roles they're playing that's at issue here. All of the more "fairer-skinned" (eh, I hate using these terms, but people) Indian, Turkish and "Arab" (there's lots of Arab countries and ethnicities, you know?) are the ones of the more prominent background roles; those of darker complexions have more sub-servant/one-note roles. Background dressing, essentially.

Your last point just comes off as someone who's comfortable with the status quo; it's saying nothing no one here already knows so what is the point in saying it? At least try to get at a "why", or try to offer some perspective on how that can be changed. Stating the obvious in this case is painfully boring.

 

[DC R1D3R]

I don't know enough about the history of North Africa. Is it believed that Berber people came from Europe?

the original berbers were of course black. hannibal of cartage who attacked italy on african elephants was pre-warned by his father to strike first!!

WTF are you going on about?

if you don't know about the "book of life", you don't know who the fuck you are. go study son!

Yeah, no. I can't speak for anywhere that I haven't lived but in the south, Florida and mid-Atlantic, Christian blacks I know didn't and don't think that. Now, they may have art work that looks like that but they're just as likely to have "Afro" Jesus too.

you are my brother!!!

 

[Valhelm]

the original berbers were of course black. hannibal of cartage who attacked italy was pre-warned by his father to strike first!!

I'm not so sure about that. Carthage was founded by Phonecians, so even if the indigenous people were black, Hannibal and his relatives may have looked more Lebanese/Palestinian.

Do you think that the non-Black people of North Africa are just descendants of Greeks, Arabs, and Romans?

 

[DC R1D3R]

Everyone originated from Africa.

neanderthals don't originate from africa.

europeans have neanderthal genes and dna.

black people don't.

so what now bro?

@Valhelm
i'll answer with a question

which white men do you see riding african elephants?

lol

 

[Trouble]

I know a half Egyptian girl who totally looks white. Therefore all Egyptians are white.

 

[danwarb]

neanderthals don't originate from africa.

europeans have neanderthal genes and dna.

black people don't.

so what now bro?

They did, just a little earlier.

 

[Toa TAK]

I know a half Egyptian girl who totally looks white. Therefore all Egyptians are white.

SCIENCE

 

[iamblades]

Edit:

Contemporary evidence suggests that the group of people who currently live in the country called Macedonia are not actually ethnic Slavs themselves, but obtained a Slavic cultural and linguistic identity through assimilation with Bulgaria starting in the Dark Ages. Furthermore, it should be pointed out that the Macedonia of Antiquity - or at least the Kingdom of Philip - actually corresponds to the modern region of north-east Greece, and not to the country called Macedonia. Now, there is debate on whether the Macedonians of Antiquity were in fact Greek (although since Antiquity they were accepted as Greek), but, in my years of reading on the subject, I've never read that they were ethnic Slavs. Now, if you have scholarly sources that suggest they were I'm happy to read them.

Interesting. I knew that the original kingdom of Macedon wasn't in exactly the same location as modern Macedonia, but borders shifting over time is not exactly shocking.

If you define it strictly enough, I would guess none of the southern Slavic people are truly ethnic Slavs, as the culture and language evolved in the north first. The southern Slavic people are probably mostly descendants of the Thracians, though modern Macedonians seem very certain that they are in fact Macedonian.

Definitely an interesting subject though.

 

[DC R1D3R]

They did, just a little earlier.

what with chestfuls of hair and back? to soak them in sweat and no suncream? and 1-inch penis?

LOL you can keep that!

 

[Gordon Shumway]

He probably remembers.

SMH indeed.

LMAO! Fucking amazing!

 

[Nesotenso]

what with chestfuls of hair and back? to soak them in sweat and no suncream? and 1-inch penis?

LOL you can keep that!

I have difficulty comprehending most of your posts in this thread.

 

[genjiZERO]

Interesting. I knew that the original kingdom of Macedon wasn't in exactly the same location as modern Macedonia, but borders shifting over time is not exactly shocking.

If you define it strictly enough, I would guess none of the southern Slavic people are truly ethnic Slavs, as the culture and language evolved in the north first. The southern Slavic people are probably mostly descendants of the Thracians, though modern Macedonians seem very certain that they are in fact Macedonian.

Definitely an interesting subject though.

Well put. That's the understanding I'm under too.

 

[DC R1D3R]

I have difficulty comprehending most of your posts in this thread.

yeh, it's an eye-opener i know.
neanderthals came from/were locked deep in the caucus mountains and caves, whilst black people come from the sun laden mother earth....africa.

 

[Nesotenso]

yeh, it's an eye-opener i know.
neanderthals came from/were locked deep in the caucus mountains, whilst black people come from the sun laden mother earth....africa.

no, most of your post resolve into some weird tangent about blacks, whites and Africa.

 

[DC R1D3R]

no, most of your post resolve into some weird tangent about blacks, whites and Africa.

yeh, and that's what this thread encompasses. unless i'm mistaken.

 

[Nesotenso]

yeh, and that's what this thread encompasses. unless i'm mistaken.

it is interesting to see posts from someone who seemingly ascribes to afrocentrism. I could be wrong though.

 

[akira28]

neanderthals don't originate from africa.

they still do.

 

[Valhelm]

neanderthals don't originate from africa.

europeans have neanderthal genes and dna.

black people don't.

so what now bro?

@Valhelm
i'll answer with a question

which white men do you see riding african elephants?

lol

African =/= Black, though? Obviously the vast majority of Africans are Black, but that's not true in most North African countries. I doubt Hannibal looked totally European, but I doubt he looked Sub-Saharan African, too. Because there are so many lighter-skinned people in Tunisia and Algeria, I doubt that everybody in the area was Black before the Phonecians, Europeans, and Arabs conquered it.

 

[Alienous]

Murdoch, you have enough money, you already won, why on Earth do you have a Twitter account?

In the event you have a GAF account too, send me a PM. $2.3 million is all I'm asking for, you can spare it.

 

[elrechazado]

what with chestfuls of hair and back? to soak them in sweat and no suncream? and 1-inch penis?

LOL you can keep that!

W....
.....wut

 

[abuC]

By the way, isn't Joel Edgerton Ramesses II? Well Ramesses II was a red haired white man.

Black people with red hair does happen.

 

[dbztrk]

Even in Blumenbach's definition of the Caucasian race, this group included more people than just white Europeans.

From Wikipedia:


So according to Blumenbach Aremenians, Berbers, Arabs,Iranians, Afghans, (North) Indians, etc belong to the white race.

I'm well aware of this. I'm not sure what your point is.

 

[fader]

I remembered him from another thread

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=118601852#post118601852

yeah...

oh god that thread was a nightmare...

 

[Valhelm]

Black people with red hair does happen.

That's true! Red hair wasn't unheard of in Egypt, and I don't think there's any reason to believe Ramesses was lighter-skinned than most Egyptians.

 

[Kinyou]

That's true! Red hair wasn't unheard of in Egypt, and I don't think there's any reason to believe Ramesses was lighter-skinned than most Egyptians.

A quick google search spit out this:

*blank*

No idea though how legitimate that stuff is, at least it offers sources.

Edit: nope, strike that. Apparently the guy bases stuff on HFK Günther who was a race researcher before and during Nazi Germany. I doubt that's any quality research

 

[Earthstrike]

A quick google search spit out this:

*blank*

No idea though how legitimate that stuff is, at least it offers sources.

Edit: nope, strike that. Apparently the guy bases stuff on HFK Günther who was a race researcher before and during Nazi Germany. I doubt that's any quality research

Just fyi, Marchofthetitans appears to be a white supremacist website. Go to their homepage and read the sample chapter "The final call"

 

[R1CHO]

DC R1D3R is the crazy buttocks on a train of racial theories.

 

[Valhelm]

DC R1D3R is the crazy buttocks on a train of racial theories.

I disagree with most of what DC says, but he makes every thread a lot more entertaining and might break up potential "lol Egyptians weren't black" circlejerks.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

wow he's dumb Egyptians are middle eastern? I guess he means they are semetic? The name of their country is the land of Ham (Hem) Khemet/Chemia. All historians from all time understand this. Egyptians, Nubians , Sabeans, and Cushiites(Ethiopia) all related. It's clear the people living within Egypt within any given time were indeed from other cultures but the founder Mizraim was Hemetic its not the end of the world. The pyramids, obelisks, sphinx's architecture it continues down the Nile into Sudan so...if black people had no part in Egypt then someone didnt get the memo. If everyone is caught up on complexion then no one will be satisfied black people "people of color" range from very light with red hair and blue eyes to the more common mocha brown and very dark.


Its not like he would get away from it by saying they were from the middle east, Sumerians were in the middle east, there were no boundarys and racial limits black people lived beyond the border of Africa. All people radiated from the middle east/fertile cresent area.

 

[Mesousa]

Majority of northern africans are caucasians, and eastern africans looks more white than the typical african american because of the different descent. Egiptians aren't "black" or "white", they are mediterranean with various influences from different places, exactly as they are now. They're like Southern europeans, more tanned on average, and with more curly hairs. But i guess for a nation of immigrants it may not seems as obvious that people look similar to their neighbours.

The worst part about the film is the racial profiling in the roles (like really? at least older films had only whites, this is way worse imho) and the fact that Scott didn't even bother to tell his actors to get a tan.

The typical African American is part white if you didn't know.

A few East Africans look "whiter" as you say, but the majority, even in the horn, are darker than the average African American.

 

[Lord Morairty007]

Ancient Egypt was multicultural society. That includes the Pharaohs. Ramses was black while Cleopatra was white.


Like that matters anyways. Race is a modern concept.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

African =/= Black, though? Obviously the vast majority of Africans are Black, but that's not true in most North African countries. I doubt Hannibal looked totally European, but I doubt he looked Sub-Saharan African, too. Because there are so many lighter-skinned people in Tunisia and Algeria, I doubt that everybody in the area was Black before the Phonecians, Europeans, and Arabs conquered it.

yeah but Murdoch was talking about Egypt , we know after Alexander, and the Assyrians conquered it, there was a very diverse population...that doesn't change who started the civilization. Further back the less influence you have from all these successions of kingdoms. The Assyrian's, Greeks, Romans, Babylonians, Arab caliphate. All of those are centuries after the time of the Moses , around 1400 BC or 1250 BC depending on which chronology you choose.

All those other places you can look up the peoples by names of tribes and see, over in northern africa over by algeria and morocco was mixed , black , semetic and european. Im black and my fathers family is from morocco. I never would've guessed it , thats just where they are from but they look african american all 8 of the kids in my grandfathers generation, and they came to the US as immigrants 3 generations ago.

this dude is from egypt/Khemet. If it were still 86 I would see 10 guys that look like this just going to work and stoppin in a white castles for dinner before catchin a movie. Theres no great disconnect between Egypt / Khemet and the people just south of their kingdom and to the east which is now Sudan, and Ethiopia . They are related, just because people of other tribes and families moved in there over time, doesn't mean you change who set up shop there first , that makes no sense.

 

[FartOfWar]

neanderthals don't originate from africa.

europeans have neanderthal genes and dna.

black people don't.

so what now bro?

@Valhelm
i'll answer with a question

which white men do you see riding african elephants?

lol

Gonna answer sarcasm without humor because I'm interested in hominids. Neanderthals do indeed originate in Africa as do the Denisovans whose DNA asians share along with Neaderthal sequences.

 

[whatsinaname]

Murdoch you moron. Murdock is supposed to be the blind one, not you.

 

[FartOfWar]

what with chestfuls of hair and back? to soak them in sweat and no suncream? and 1-inch penis?

LOL you can keep that!

Oh, so that wasn't sarcasm.Well then, the floodgates for racial stereotyping are wide open?

 

[hirokazu]

neanderthals don't originate from africa.

europeans have neanderthal genes and dna.

black people don't.

so what now bro?

@Valhelm
i'll answer with a question

which white men do you see riding african elephants?

lol

I have no idea what you're talking about in most of your posts, but just as well because you come of as a someone who's racist against white people. I'm not sure why that's tolerated on this forum, but oh well.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

Incidentally Cleopatra the last Pharaoh of Egypt was Cleopatra VII for those who want a fun fact for parties.

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

I have no idea what you're talking about in most of your posts, but just as well because you come of as a someone who's racist against white people. I'm not sure why that's tolerated on this forum, but oh well.

I hope it continues to be tolerated because it is hilarious.

 

[iamblades]

Gonna answer sarcasm without humor because I'm interested in hominids. Neanderthals do indeed originate in Africa as do the Denisovans whose DNA asians share along with Neaderthal sequences.

Not that neanderthal DNA is a bad thing given what we know now. They were just as advanced as the early homo sapiens were at the time, they had bigger brains to go with bigger more robust bodies. Just for whatever reason, Homo Sapiens was better equipped to adapt to the rapidly changing climate in Europe towards the end of the glacial period. Likely because they needed more food, while the less massive homo sapiens could survive on a relative starvation diet.

That bit of neanderthal DNA may just come in handy for the future of humanity one day, you never know.

 

[G.ZZZ]

The typical African American is part white if you didn't know.

A few East Africans look "whiter" as you say, but the majority, even in the horn, are darker than the average African American.

I meant those who aren't mixed as clearly but it's semantic, we both know what i meant.
And i didn't mean darker or clearer skin, but facial structure. Higher cheekbones, slimmer faces etc... eastern-north to north africa to india to northern europe traits

 

[CrunchyB]

Sorry to break it to you guys, but any white guy is a descendant of both Ramses and Moses. As well as any other historical figure that produced offspring who lived somewhere in proximity to Europe, about 1000 years ago or more. After that many generations, either everyone is related to that person, or the line died out completely. Considering the large number of offspring (Ramses had 150+ children) it's probably the former.

Some basic math: 1000 years are about 40 generations on the low end. 2^40 are over 1 trillion theoretical ancestors, living more or less simultaneously, a millennium ago. That is more than 10,000 times the population of Europe at that time. So, on average, any person with surviving descendants living back then would show up on your family tree 10,000 times.

Europe has no major natural barriers and constant migration, so the calculation is pretty straightforward. It's more complicated with Asia, Sub-Saharan Africa and the Americas.

So I think it's absurd to criticize the casting of a direct descendant of an Egyptian Pharaoh as said Egyptian Pharaoh

That said, I'm pretty sure the people in Egypt were a lot more tan than in that screenshot. But nothing some makeup couldn't have fixed.

 

[iamblades]

Sorry to break it to you guys, but any white guy is a descendant of both Ramses and Moses. As well as any other historical figure that produced offspring who lived somewhere in proximity to Europe, about 1000 years ago or more. After that many generations, either everyone is related to that person, or the line died out completely. Considering the large number of offspring (Ramses had 150+ children) it's probably the former.

Some basic math: 1000 years are about 40 generations on the low end. 2^40 are over 1 trillion theoretical ancestors, living more or less simultaneously, a millennium ago. That is more than 10,000 times the population of Europe at that time. So, on average, any person with surviving descendants living back then would show up on your family tree 10,000 times.

Europe has no major natural barriers and constant migration, so the calculation is pretty straightforward. It's more complicated with Asia, Sub-Saharan Africa and the Americas.

So I think it's absurd to criticize the casting of a direct descendant of an Egyptian Pharaoh as said Egyptian Pharaoh

That said, I'm pretty sure the people in Egypt were a lot more tan than in that screenshot. But nothing some makeup couldn't have fixed.

It doesn't work that way, as you are not accounting for the fact that there will be lots of people who can follow their lineage back to them in many different ways. There were extant populations in northern europe long before moses time that were fairly isolated and remained that way until relatively recently.

We can do genetic testing to go back and guess when and where the last common ancestor would have been, and the closest guess for mitochondrial eve was 100k to 200k years ago in sub-saharan east africa.

Granted that's for the entire planet, not just north africans and europeans, but it's probably pretty close to the same answer though, given that after leaving Africa, human populations spread in every direction and some remained isolated.

 

[kess]

Well preserved mummies from thousands of years ago don't look much different than most Northern Africans today. Of course, the aristocracy wasn't always composed of natives in Egyptian history. DNA studies show a preponderance of haplogroups common to the Arabian peninsula, North Africa, Caucasus, and East Africa.

 

[theignoramus]

Its 2014 and we still have Egyptians being portrayed as white. Lmao @ everyone that's black being a thief or lower class.

Fuck this film. Thoroughly disappointed in Ridley Scott for this shit

What, the Somalis being depicted as uniformly savage in Black Hawk Down wasnt enough of an alarm bell?

 

[Mista Koo]

Well the US Census up until 2000 considers north africa and the middle east to be 'white.'

We still are, I had to check a box saying I'm white.

 

[abuC]

yeah but Murdoch was talking about Egypt , we know after Alexander, and the Assyrians conquered it, there was a very diverse population...that doesn't change who started the civilization. Further back the less influence you have from all these successions of kingdoms. The Assyrian's, Greeks, Romans, Babylonians, Arab caliphate. All of those are centuries after the time of the Moses , around 1400 BC or 1250 BC depending on which chronology you choose.

All those other places you can look up the peoples by names of tribes and see, over in northern africa over by algeria and morocco was mixed , black , semetic and european. Im black and my fathers family is from morocco. I never would've guessed it , thats just where they are from but they look african american all 8 of the kids in my grandfathers generation, and they came to the US as immigrants 3 generations ago.

this dude is from egypt/Khemet. If it were still 86 I would see 10 guys that look like this just going to work and stoppin in a white castles for dinner before catchin a movie. Theres no great disconnect between Egypt / Khemet and the people just south of their kingdom and to the east which is now Sudan, and Ethiopia . They are related, just because people of other tribes and families moved in there over time, doesn't mean you change who set up shop there first , that makes no sense.

That guy looks like Serge Ibaka.

 

[Stereogatari]

Whether or not the Egyptians were white or black, they are not the ancestors of the groups that now identify as white or black.

Eg. African Americans are mostly descended from West Africans, who are as distinct from East African blacks as they are from Europeans.

 

[Seth C]

That character was probably based on Thutmoses III, so techincally yes.

I'm think you may have that a bit confused. The Pharoah in the story of Moses would have been based on Thutmose III.

 

[Valhelm]

Whether or not the Egyptians were white or black, they are not the ancestors of the groups that now identify as white or black.

Eg. African Americans are mostly descended from West Africans, who are as distinct from East African blacks as they are from Europeans.

Yeah. The modern definition of race is based on a system meant to separate Europeans, Native Americans, and West Africans. Most other groups fall through the cracks a bit.

As far as I know, the majority of Egyptian nationals do not identify as white or Black.

 

[dbztrk]

I meant those who aren't mixed as clearly but it's semantic, we both know what i meant.
And i didn't mean darker or clearer skin, but facial structure. Higher cheekbones, slimmer faces etc... eastern-north to north africa to india to northern europe traits

These traits are found the world over. They are not specific to these groups. There is more diversity within groups than out. Also these traits originated in Sub-Saharan Africa.