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[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

I have a hard time not considering this as an act of war. Taking one of our citizens for their own petty personal purposes, and treating them like a savage, causing their death.

If I were president, it would take every fiber of my being to keep a cool and rational head and not to launch a retaliation against them for it.

Then again, we are still at war techincally

 

[SchrodingerC]

Christ, NK knew they were sending back a half-living corpse.

 

[Cirion]

People wishing war over this are insane.

 

[Hurricane_Chris]

The US jails the world's largest absolute number of prisoners and also jails the world's largest percentage of its population. Minority ethnic groups, blacks and hispanics in that order, represent a disproportionately large portion of the prison population. Every study on the subject shows vast swaths of people lack equal and fair access to basic justice. In the US, police can roll up and shoot a 12 year old boy within 2 seconds of arrival, body slam his 14 year old (if I remember correctly) sister and force her to watch him bleed out and the majority of Americans are OK with that and, in fact, blame the child or his parents. In the US a vigilante can shoot a boy armed with nothing but an iced tea and bag of candy and both the media and a majority of the population will blame the boy. The killer will be found innocent.

Sucks for the dude and his family but, IMO, the US should get its own house in order before pointing fingers at other countries.

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

Truly the Lincoln of our time.

Wow, you are so cool and hip to be taking a shot at Trump over this, one can only wish they were as edgy as you


RIP to the victim and prayers to the family

 

[Nickle]

The US jails the world's largest absolute number of prisoners and also jails the world's largest percentage of its population. Minority ethnic groups, blacks and hispanics in that order, represent a disproportionately large portion of the prison population. Every study on the subject shows vast swaths of people lack equal and fair access to basic justice. In the US, police can roll up and shoot a 12 year old boy within 2 seconds of arrival, body slam his 14 year old (if I remember correctly) sister and force her to watch him bleed out and the majority of Americans are OK with that and, in fact, blame the child or his parents. In the US a vigilante can shoot a boy armed with nothing but an iced tea and bag of candy and both the media and a majority of the population will blame the boy. The killer will be found innocent.

Sucks for the dude and his family but, IMO, the US should get its own house in order before pointing fingers at other countries.

Yeah, everyone on Gaf loves our police system, we shouldn't criticize the North Korean dictatorship.

 

[7DollarHagane]

Wow I can't believe you can still get flights there.

What the actual fuck.

RIP

They should cut off all civilian travel to NK. It's not a safe place for anyone. You basically could he disappeared at any moment without reason or hope for release.

We all like to laugh at nk because of their bluster and outrageous statements but this is a reminder of how they simply do not see outsiders as human beings. It's not much removed from Nazis or other cruel groups in human history. This one is just neutered on a global scale.

 

[Oemenia]

Wasn't the country doing well up until the 90s. It's sad to hear that it has come to this state.

 

[Mesousa]

They should cut off all civilian travel to NK. It's not a safe place for anyone. You basically could he disappeared at any moment without reason or hope for release.

We all like to laugh at nk because of their bluster and outrageous statements but this is a reminder of how they simply do not see outsiders as human beings. It's not much removed from Nazis or other cruel groups in human history. This one is just neutered on a global scale.

Should civilian travel be cut off from south Korea too?

I mean, US troops can do whatever they want there with any sort of true punishment either if we are going to be honest.

Just last week K-POP stars out right refused to perform for US servicemen due to continued harassment and unpunished crimes.

 

[Stinkles]

The US jails the world's largest absolute number of prisoners and also jails the world's largest percentage of its population. Minority ethnic groups, blacks and hispanics in that order, represent a disproportionately large portion of the prison population. Every study on the subject shows vast swaths of people lack equal and fair access to basic justice. In the US, police can roll up and shoot a 12 year old boy within 2 seconds of arrival, body slam his 14 year old (if I remember correctly) sister and force her to watch him bleed out and the majority of Americans are OK with that and, in fact, blame the child or his parents. In the US a vigilante can shoot a boy armed with nothing but an iced tea and bag of candy and both the media and a majority of the population will blame the boy. The killer will be found innocent.

Sucks for the dude and his family but, IMO, the US should get its own house in order before pointing fingers at other countries.

Gaf's dumbest argument. Whataboutism. Congratulations on a particularly pathetic and egregious one.

 

[Hurricane_Chris]

Yeah, everyone on Gaf loves our police system, we shouldn't criticize the North Korean dictatorship.

North Korea, as we know it today, would not exist if not for the US and Russia using the Korean peninsula as one of the many pawns on the Cold War political chessboard. it is a problem we helped create. I have no problems with trying to clean up our mess in a non-violent way. The problem is that the only nation capable of exerting any non-violent pressure is probably China. China, a country that is also a known human rights violator, but also a fast growing country that will likely soon top the world in GDP and market size. Notice, when push comes the shove the US looks the other way when it comes to China.

No, I think the US should concentrate on settting an example of being a nation that believes in human rights and justice. That way, when we go talking shit to other nations, they can't flip to any domestic US news story, laugh, and call bullshit on us.

 

[Nickle]

North Korea, as we know it today, would not exist if not for the US and Russia using the Korean peninsula as one of the many pawns on the Cold War political chessboard. it is a problem we helped create. I have no problems with trying to clean up our mess in a non-violent way. The problem is that the only nation capable of exerting any non-violent pressure is probably China. China, a country that is also a known human rights violator, but also a fast growing country that will likely soon top the world in GDP and market size. Notice, when push comes the shove the US looks the other way when it comes to China.

No, I think the US should concentrate on settting an example of being a nation that believes in human rights and justice. That way, when we go talking shit to other nations, they can't flip to any domestic US news story, laugh, and call bullshit on us.

Most people on this forum are liberals who very much want to change our justice system, but there's these people called Republicans who are getting in our way. What more do you want us to do?

 

[ronaldthump]

trying to find out how he died. should it be in the OP if it says (Up: Otto Warmbier has died).

RIP.

wow.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Most people who get arrested did something stupid. North Korea doesn't arrest people just cause, they do it for violating their idiotic laws. They want people to come for the money and the propaganda.

So no, it won't stop people from going.

If you have to spend money to do something dangerous, go swim with sharks, climb Everest, or go boating off the coast of Somalia. I can't think of anything more hopelessly depressing and more likely to get you ganked for no reason than traveling to North Korea.

Seriously, stop traveling to NK GAF. It's not funny, interesting, or contrarian. There are literally hundreds of countries with great food and storied cultures around the world you can visit where the government will not torture you to death for offending their fearless leader.

 

[andythinkpad]

Has pissbaby tweeted about "this gentleman" yet?

 

[ronaldthump]

For those in this thread that blamed the victim. I hope you feel like shit because you really deserve to. Absolutely fucking shameful behaviour.

+

Seriously, stop traveling to NK GAF. It's not funny, interesting, or contrarian. There are literally hundreds of countries with great food and storied cultures around the world you can visit where the government will not torture you to death for offending their fearless leader.

I dont think people blamed the victim but it is crazy to go to NK knowing what it is and thinking what he did wouldn't have had repercussions. Looking at this thread now - it makes me more disgusted at the youtubers/instagrammers who went last year and promoted NK.

It's a tragedy for sure. RIP to Otto. Read that he couldn't function see and was unresponsible when the family got him back. They destroyed him.

 

[Vilix]

Has pissbaby tweeted about "this gentleman" yet?

No. He just mentioned before a meeting that "Those are bad folks."

 

[the_darkness]

Truly the Lincoln of our time.

Trump is a moron but it really is bullshit to cherry pick his comments like this.

 

[Lowmelody]

This is a tragedy. No object is worth a life like this. I cannot believe the people saying he deserved it or brought it on himself. Heartless madness

 

[Emerson]

He absolutely did not deserve it. It's incredibly sad what happened to this guy.

But the rest of the world needs to stop using North Korea as a tourist destination. It's a fucking dangerous, horrible place.

 

[cpp_is_king]

Terrible outcome. Feel for everyone involved, and I hope he can finally rest in peace

 

[ronaldthump]

Looked back on the first page of the OP - there's pics of Otto there and he was a young man full of life and this is the worst way this could have ended. It really makes you think how fucked up this thing is.

Feeling bad for his friends and family now.

 

[Kibbles]

So we gonna let them murder our citizens now eh

 

[UnObtainium17]

RIP. I wish the best for his family.

US should really get on a travel ban for all Americans going to NK. Its pretty darn apparent no Americans will ever get fair treatment from NK government and that alone should be enough reason for a totally travel ban.

 

[Forerunner]

Fucking disgusting and to think there are thousands more suffering in these camps.

 

[NYR]

North Korea killed an American citizen. There will be hell to pay next time. maybe.

FTFY

 

[Euphor!a]

Are you saying American visa fees line the pockets of nameless government officials or that North Korean entry fees are on the level processing expenses?

They're saying you have no idea what you are talking about, so please stop.

 

[legend166]

What I realise about North Korea is that everyone is hypocritical. No one seems to care about the brutal oppression of tens of millions of people.

You've got people who don't care about the North Korean people, they just like to play the geo-political game and show off their military toys (the Trumps of the world).

You've got people who love to express their bleeding heart bona fides but don't care about North Korea because people are only worth caring for if they manage to escape their brutal regime. Reminds me of the rhetoric often thrown at pro-lifers about only caring about babies while they're in the womb. "If you escape your brutalist dictator, we'll welcome you with open arms, but if you can't, oh well. Hope you like forced labour!"

Then you get the whatabouters who just point out the shortcomings of the US like it's somehow comparable.

It all stinks.

 

[Akiraptor]

Then again, we are still at war techincally

No, we aren't. We have never been at war with North Korea. The last declared war the US was involved in was World War II.

 

[Shamdeo]

So we gonna let them murder our citizens now eh

nah, we're pretty good at doing that ourselves

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Wow, you are so cool and hip to be taking a shot at Trump over this, one can only wish they were as edgy as you


RIP to the victim and prayers to the family

Spare your righteous indignation for the man who spent 18 months campaigning on the false idea that Republicans and Democrat Presidents before him were just too weak to make North Korea cower before them and surrender. Who's son just yesterday was using Otto as a political tool on twitter to spike the football against Obama with.

If Trump were a candidate right now, how do you think he would be reacting to this news? Just take a wild guess.

The idea that reacting negatively to a statement he had his lackeys type out for him while he continues making bullshit promises like "we're gonna deal with North Korea" is somehow an affront to the victim is bullshit.

Keep in mind that I'm not criticizing Trump for his actions towards NK because anyone that isn't a total moron knows how dangerous escalation would be in that region and how Presidents have had their hands tied because of this, I'm criticizing him for campaigning on bullshit promises that he had some kind of solution and that Bush/Obama/Clinton were all too stupid or weak to do anything.

 

[bender]

Tragic ending.

Doesn't a visit to the DMZ allow people to cross the line and technically be in North Korea?

In the blue house.

I don't remember what color the house was but it's basically a conference room that has two entrances, one in South Korea and the other in North Korea. By doing a DMZ tour, you can enter this conference room and technically step foot onto the other side. That was how it was explained to me when I lived there in the 90s. Not sure what has changed since then.

This room was joked about in the television show M.A.S.H. when a radio news announcement played announcing that both sides had agreed on the size of the flag base that was allowed to sit on the conference room table. Each side had been bringing progressively larger flag bases to 1-up the other side which I believe is a true story.

 

[cameron]

Secretary Tillerson: We hold #NorthKorea accountable for Otto Warmbier’s unjust imprisonment. https://go.usa.gov/xNv54

— Department of State (@StateDept) June 19, 2017​

https://www.state.gov/secretary/remarks/2017/06/272035.htm

And from WaPo:

Warmbier’s death could push Congress or the Trump administration to restrict or ban Americans from traveling to North Korea.

Reps. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) and Joe Wilson (R-S.C.) have introduced the North Korea Travel Control Act in the House, which would require Americans who want to travel to North Korea to obtain a license. There would be no licenses for tourists.

The Senate has been more reluctant to introduce restrictions on Americans — but Warmbier’s death might be the trigger that they need, analysts say.

Separately, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson has raised the prospect of the administration using an executive order to ban travel to North Korea.

“We have been evaluating whether we should put some type of travel visa restriction to North Korea,” Tillerson told a House committee last week. “We haven’t come to a final conclusion, but we are considering it.”

 

[BlackClouds]

Most people on this forum are liberals who very much want to change our justice system, but there's these people called Republicans who are getting in our way. What more do you want us to do?

Start by challenging the people you know who believe in foul stuff. There's a lot you can do.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

What I realise about North Korea is that everyone is hypocritical. No one seems to care about the brutal oppression of tens of millions of people.

You've got people who don't care about the North Korean people, they just like to play the geo-political game and show off their military toys (the Trumps of the world).

You've got people who love to express their bleeding heart bona fides but don't care about North Korea because people are only worth caring for if they manage to escape their brutal regime. Reminds me of the rhetoric often thrown at pro-lifers about only caring about babies while they're in the womb. "If you escape your brutalist dictator, we'll welcome you with open arms, but if you can't, oh well. Hope you like forced labour!"

Then you get the whatabouters who just point out the shortcomings of the US like it's somehow comparable.

It all stinks.

You can't just invade a nuclear-equipped nation. It has never been done, and likely will never be in our lifetimes without some kind of hypothetical deterrent, or a warhead being fired off.

If there is going to be permanent change in the nation, it has to come from within.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Secretary Tillerson: We hold #NorthKorea accountable for Otto Warmbier’s unjust imprisonment. https://go.usa.gov/xNv54

— Department of State (@StateDept) June 19, 2017​

https://www.state.gov/secretary/remarks/2017/06/272035.htm

And from WaPo:

this is a stupid response.

Our government should not be restricting US citizens movements. Why is the response to NKs torture to restrict US citizens movements?

Like with Cuba US citizens should be able to travel where they want and take risks as they see fit.

 

[elrechazado]

this is a stupid response.

Our government should not be restricting US citizens movements. Why is the response to NKs torture to restrict US citizens movements?

Like with Cuba US citizens should be able to travel where they want and take risks as they see fit.

Because the government expends massive resources and political capital to then rescue them from the situation created by their travel there. Extend your logic into any number of domestic or foreign situations and logically the government should have little say in anything. It's patently absurd.

 

[legend166]

You can't just invade a nuclear-equipped nation. It has never been done, and likely will never be in our lifetimes without some kind of hypothetical deterrent, or a warhead being fired off.

If there is going to be permanent change in the nation, it has to come from within.

There was literally decades of this before North Korea became a nuclear-equipped nation. No one wanted to deal with the refugees so they just shrugged their shoulders.

 

[bender]

You can't just invade a nuclear-equipped nation. It has never been done, and likely will never be in our lifetimes without some kind of hypothetical deterrent, or a warhead being fired off.

If there is going to be permanent change in the nation, it has to come from within.

China is the deterrent, not North Korea's recent nuclear capabilities.

 

[realwords]

So very sad. Otto was a classmate of mine in college and the toll this took on his close circle of friends was unbearable to see. May he rest easy.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

"Hard Labor" = death

Damn. On the first page of this thread 😔

 

[Shaanyboi]

Otto Warmbier, held in N. Korea until last week, has died at UCMC.

Link goes to family statement.

Fucking hell...

RIP

 

[BocoDragon]

I expected NK prison camp would be a fate worse than death, but I didn't know it would so quickly lead to death.

 

[Keri]

Because the government expends massive resources and political capital to then rescue them from the situation created by their travel there. Extend your logic into any number of domestic or foreign situations and logically the government should have little say in anything. It's patently absurd.

This. There should absolutely be a travel ban to North Korea. It mind boggling that Americans want to travel there in the first place. A ban saves those people from themselves and saves the United States from having to negotiate for their (maybe) safe return.

 

[Izuna]

President's official statement is good.

It doesn't sound like him at all.

And by that, I mean, he didn't write it.

 

[UnObtainium17]

this is a stupid response.

Our government should not be restricting US citizens movements. Why is the response to NKs torture to restrict US citizens movements?

Like with Cuba US citizens should be able to travel where they want and take risks as they see fit.

Cuba as of now is totally different to the current NK. Honestly it's laughable that you used Cuba to compare with NK.
NK is on another level of wretchedness in treatment of it's prisoners. Not even sure if any other countries in the world compare.

 

[How About No]

So very sad. Otto was a classmate of mine in college and the toll this took on his close circle of friends was unbearable to see. May he rest easy.

I'm sorry man

RIP

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

Go and shit up some other thread and show a bit of respect for the dead.

well the kid's father already started the political football by blaming Obama.

What I realise about North Korea is that everyone is hypocritical. No one seems to care about the brutal oppression of tens of millions of people.

You've got people who don't care about the North Korean people, they just like to play the geo-political game and show off their military toys (the Trumps of the world).

You've got people who love to express their bleeding heart bona fides but don't care about North Korea because people are only worth caring for if they manage to escape their brutal regime. Reminds me of the rhetoric often thrown at pro-lifers about only caring about babies while they're in the womb. "If you escape your brutalist dictator, we'll welcome you with open arms, but if you can't, oh well. Hope you like forced labour!"

Then you get the whatabouters who just point out the shortcomings of the US like it's somehow comparable.

It all stinks.

change has to come within. we could invade tomorrow and then have half the population dead. I suppose that would be the only solution.

this is a stupid response.

Our government should not be restricting US citizens movements. Why is the response to NKs torture to restrict US citizens movements?

Like with Cuba US citizens should be able to travel where they want and take risks as they see fit.

sometimes you have to tell people not to go somewhere because it's a fucking hellhole and it's very dangerous.

 

[Chopper]

I don't understand. What did they do to him?!

 

[Foolworm]

Maybe this will stop the 'best Korea' memes and drive home the fact that North Korea is a quasi medieval feudal state that somehow managed to persist on today's geopolitical landscape. I doubt it though, some people simply don't get it.

My condolences as well.